[HockingPastryChef]

Ok, I need to speak up better at work. I do need to think about the fact that a couple of the co-workers that work there have gotten into trouble before for yelling at them and still work there. I guess I have fear in me that makes me not want to speak up.

The other day my supervisor was prepping up food for a big event. He had no gloves on putting ready to eat foods on platters, I happen to see him pick through it and eat it too while setting them up. I felt grossed out and know I should of said something. I have noticed in the past that him and others prep up ready to eat food with no gloves and I have no clue if they wash their hands.

Which another incident happened where a co worker had dropped a ham on the dirty kitchen floor and rinsed it and still sliced it instead of making the better choice of throwing it away. I spoke to my manager and he didn't do anything about it. He seemed to think I was nuts speaking up about that.

I happen to be the head baker at a nursing home/assistant living place. After 8 years of food service at jobs and school I pay quite a bit attention to the sanitation. I think that they need to think even more deeply when working at a nursing home since the elderly are twice as likely to get sick and the effects are twice as back compared to a middle aged adult. My supervisor and manager need to know better already.

Another thing that bothers me is that the co-workers ( cooks, servers and plus my supervisor and manager) take cookies out of the freezer that I put in bags for workers to pick up for residents down the other wings. These are not leftovers and are waiting to be eaten by the people who live there. I feel irritated by that and know that it has become a habit. I know they take them because they leave the bags open in the freezer which bothers me because they loose their texture and become hard. The bags are left open on a daily basis; each time I see my supervisor and manager walk out of the freezer, plus the cooks.

I would think these people would know better though when I do speak up they do look at me and speak to me as though my perspective is wrong a lot of the time.

I am frustrated and want to see what approaches you would take upon these situations. And maybe take a different approach.

I am thinking of taking my supervisor aside in a office and talk together about my thoughts upon these situations. I would like the whole dietary department to start using sanitary gloves when touching ready to eat foods. I think that I will talk about these separately instead of these two situations all at once considering I know that my supervisor gets frustrated quickly. First about the safety and then later about the cookies even though the cookie situation I have been frustrated with for a while. If he wants to argue that he is fine then I'll give an example if he was in a situation of a person touching his food at a restaurant like that and see what he says.

Thanks!

[hvert]

Since it is your manager who is doing these things, and since he has not been receptive when you've mentioned this stuff in the past, is there any point in bringing it up again? It just doesn't sound like it will change his behavior.

You are still in the right -- it is gross for people to be dropping ham on the floor and washing it, nibbling while they are preparing food, and it's just wrong to be stealing cookies. The idea of wearing gloves is new to me. People in restaurants around here are required to wash/sanitize their hands, but not to wear gloves.

But even though you are right, do you think bringing this up would make a difference?

If you do have that conversation, I hope it goes well!

First of all, I commend you for your conscientiousness.

Honestly, most of the stuff you've described is common in food service. Most customers would be absolutely shocked to find out what goes on behind closed doors. And most people think that if they dine in an upscale restaurant the rules are followed more closely - absolutely not true. Another common activity is food service workers substance using. RAMPANT!
I've worked in a funky old cafe for 11 years and for the most part, the staff is conscientious. But sometimes rules are broken. Here in California, the rule about wearing gloves recently became law...well, when I'm wrapping items to be sold I don't wear gloves. I never did before it was a law. I wash my hands a zillion times during my shift and I'm not going to start wearing gloves at this point.

I wish I had some wonderful advice for you. I don't. But I will say that the stuff you've described is not at all unusual in the food service industry. And the good thing is, not following the letter of the law very seldom affects anyone negatively. As for the cookie situation - what about leaving a note for the offenders?

[HockingPastryChef]

Originally Posted by hvert

Since it is your manager who is doing these things, and since he has not been receptive when you've mentioned this stuff in the past, is there any point in bringing it up again? It just doesn't sound like it will change his behavior.

You are still in the right -- it is gross for people to be dropping ham on the floor and washing it, nibbling while they are preparing food, and it's just wrong to be stealing cookies. The idea of wearing gloves is new to me. People in restaurants around here are required to wash/sanitize their hands, but not to wear gloves.

But even though you are right, do you think bringing this up would make a difference?

If you do have that conversation, I hope it goes well!

Yes, we will see what happens.

It's skin exposure to ready-to-eat foods that is unsanitary and single use gloves is one of the many uses to not cause it.

[jadzea]

I have worked in health care food service for many, many years. Most of the time I would be what you would consider to be the assistant manager until I became totally fed up with things and transfered to patient care. I still see what goes on in the kitchen though.

It sounds like you have two problems. I will deal with the easy one first. People seem to think eating the food is OK even though it is technically stealing. Unless you are the person responsible for the budget, don't let it upset you. I'm sure the food cost is higher because of the extra food that is being bought and produced and not used for the residents but it is up to the managers to control that. If you are not responsible for the money, you are not responsible for people eating food. Your manager obviously doesn't care.

Secondly, the sanitation sounds awful. Do you have a health department that inspects your facility? Call them anonymously. If there is no health department I would guess you have periodic inspections by the state. Give them a tip off also. If you are inspected by JCAHO, they would react immediately if they knew what was happening. If you do not want to go to the regulatory agencies, see if there is a nurse or someone in charge of infection control and talk to them.

It sounds like you care very much for your job and for your residents which is commendable. Try to remember, you can only control yourself and you are not responsible for how other people act. It is hard to watch others be so careless but in the long run it is best for you to learn to ignore it and keep your own nose clean.

[SeekerOfLife]

I used to work in food service. I saw some of the same things. I often say the assitant F.S. manager work with bare hands(and fingernail polish) cutting acidic tomatoes. We were all supposed to wear gloves when handling food. Most of us did. Unfortunately, management does not always care. Glad to hear of your dedication. Keep up the good work.

[Jan1212]

That's so gross because it could be me eating a piece of ham that's been dropped on the dirty floor, and eating some food that's been put in his mouth. I never trusted these places, I asked the server from when I worked at a nursing home if she would eat the food, she told me she would rather starve. Even though I didn't see anything, I had my doubts. I would talk to the manager or HR of the nursing home.

[healingme4me]

Sometimes, requiring ppl to spend the couple hundred on servsafe certification, with renewals every few years, will make it second nature.
Ick. And we worry about dents in cans...

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[HockingPastryChef]

Originally Posted by jadzea

I have worked in health care food service for many, many years. Most of the time I would be what you would consider to be the assistant manager until I became totally fed up with things and transfered to patient care. I still see what goes on in the kitchen though.

It sounds like you have two problems. I will deal with the easy one first. People seem to think eating the food is OK even though it is technically stealing. Unless you are the person responsible for the budget, don't let it upset you. I'm sure the food cost is higher because of the extra food that is being bought and produced and not used for the residents but it is up to the managers to control that. If you are not responsible for the money, you are not responsible for people eating food. Your manager obviously doesn't care.

Secondly, the sanitation sounds awful. Do you have a health department that inspects your facility? Call them anonymously. If there is no health department I would guess you have periodic inspections by the state. Give them a tip off also. If you are inspected by JCAHO, they would react immediately if they knew what was happening. If you do not want to go to the regulatory agencies, see if there is a nurse or someone in charge of infection control and talk to them.

It sounds like you care very much for your job and for your residents which is commendable. Try to remember, you can only control yourself and you are not responsible for how other people act. It is hard to watch others be so careless but in the long run it is best for you to learn to ignore it and keep your own nose clean.

Yes, I agree!

I think that sanitation is more important than the cookies at the moment. I can always make extra batter. I also have noticed since I have put a big bag of cookies in the freezer that says: For Coworkers, none of the other bags have been open. It's only been a few days though.

I decided I will have to go talk to my manager who is of course higher up than my supervisor. It probably would be stupid to go speak to my supervisor a lone do to his anger issues. It seems like my manager has cared more about the sanitation of the place too. I am thinking of suggesting training, though efficiency isn't the greatest there and they don't want to spend too much money.

Also we do have the state come in and I don't know how they would find out since the upper management normally let us know ahead that they are coming. Most likely the coworkers would be wearing gloves when they come. We are waiting for state to come anytime soon too.

[healingme4me]

Gloves only when state comes? They aren't that expensive. Every employee should have a box available, daily, at their station, or communal boxes located throughout kitchen. It's common sense.

Change when switching to different foods. If i touch chicken, discard, put on new gloves to do something else. for me, switching between each lunch rush. It's better to err on excessive use of gloves, than not. Money handling and food, modified glove less, but with a wax paper type of contact surface. Skin to food, is oh so bad!

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[healingme4me]

I'm curious about this ham. How, did it even manage to hit the floor? If I had a ham. I'd, see myself, pulling from a fridge, probably in a plastic casing or in a shipping box, to place at a workstation/big table. Take out pan, it will go in, perhaps a six inch deep metal pan. Gloves on, at point of contact with pan. Remove casing, on this table, lift into pan. My hips would be against counter, if heavy/slips, that is a big table. Put water in pan, carry to stove or oven, or rolling cart, but 50lbs lifting is in my job description, so i don't bother with carts, too many extra steps. That would be one messy cleanup, cold or hot. Cold may be a save, with a serious wash, because can cook off germs. High temps are great for that.
Hot ham on floor....too hot to handle, and eww...
Or if slicing ham....um, where's the cook to kill bacteria, there weren't extra hams? Take off menu?

Alas, you mention, if i recall, nursing home??? I've personally heard stories about lacking dietary regulations, never mind sanitation.


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[HockingPastryChef]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Gloves only when state comes? They aren't that expensive. Every employee should have a box available, daily, at their station, or communal boxes located throughout kitchen. It's common sense.

Change when switching to different foods. If i touch chicken, discard, put on new gloves to do something else. for me, switching between each lunch rush. It's better to err on excessive use of gloves, than not. Money handling and food, modified glove less, but with a wax paper type of contact surface. Skin to food, is oh so bad!

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There are gloves everywhere in the building. We have them spread out through the kitchens.

Though they sit right in front of these people; they choose to not use them daily.

Today I had seen that same lady I had spoke to, touch sliced up meats bare handed while putting them into bags. Then I seen her assembling Ruben sandwiches bare handed. I feel like telling her "I would most certainly not eat that." She most likely would freak out again. I don't care anymore though. She only cares about herself.

[HockingPastryChef]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

I'm curious about this ham. How, did it even manage to hit the floor? If I had a ham. I'd, see myself, pulling from a fridge, probably in a plastic casing or in a shipping box, to place at a workstation/big table. Take out pan, it will go in, perhaps a six inch deep metal pan. Gloves on, at point of contact with pan. Remove casing, on this table, lift into pan. My hips would be against counter, if heavy/slips, that is a big table. Put water in pan, carry to stove or oven, or rolling cart, but 50lbs lifting is in my job description, so i don't bother with carts, too many extra steps. That would be one messy cleanup, cold or hot. Cold may be a save, with a serious wash, because can cook off germs. High temps are great for that.
Hot ham on floor....too hot to handle, and eww...
Or if slicing ham....um, where's the cook to kill bacteria, there weren't extra hams? Take off menu?

Alas, you mention, if i recall, nursing home??? I've personally heard stories about lacking dietary regulations, never mind sanitation.


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She was slicing the ham bare handed on the slicer and it had fallen on to the dirty floor. She had picked it up and said whoops am I clumsy. I had asked her what are you still going to slice it; I wouldn't if I were you. She said I'm rinsing it don't worry.

I should of thrown it away; I wasn't thinking myself.

Also I'm thinking I should just go ahead and e-mail my boss because I am getting angrier by the minute thinking about this and don't see a need for patience in this kind of situation at the moment. I didn't have time to speak to him today and the last couple days of me noticing these actions more, he was not there. I'm not working this weekend, that is why I want to e-mail him and tell him that I feel we can talk more about it Monday. Maybe when I say something, HE will start noticing more like I have been and it will bug him too.

[jadzea]

You do not have to wait for the state to come in to do the inspection. Call them and report the infraction. They can always make a surprise visit.

[HockingPastryChef]

Originally Posted by jadzea

You do not have to wait for the state to come in to do the inspection. Call them and report the infraction. They can always make a surprise visit.

Yes, I could. What would that do to the place though? Might that shut it down is the question.

Also I had e-mailed my manager and he said thanks and that they would do something. I doubt they are going to do anything about it since it's been almost a week and I have not seen him do anything and he had not spoke to me about it. I may have to say something to him since I still see others touching foods with their bare hands, that is ready to eat foods. That also includes him. I want him to know I am serious about it and that is unacceptable. I understand it may just fly over his head because he can be arrogant; though there have been several times he has actually put thought into issues.

[jadzea]

If I were in your situation I would point out the location of the gloves to the people touching the food and ask them to wear them. Explain your infection control concerns. If they did not wear them I would tell my manager again. Then, I would drop it and look for another job if I could not tolerate the situation. There is only so much you can do in the situation and after awhile you will just make yourself crazy by focusing on the problem.

I might add though, I have called the regulatory agency for my facility and annonymously reported some infractions. Things changed and there was no repercussions because nobody knew who called. I don't know what your options are but I could call the county health department, the state department of health and/or JCAHO if you are accredited. If you are willing to put your job on the line you can tell your manager that you will talk to the administrator of the nursing home if he does not correct the problem.

There are many situations in life that you know are not correct, healthy or fair. As many people have told me, you have to pick you battles in life. Ask yourself if this is a battle you want to fight. I often think about how poorly food was handles in the years gone by. Mass outbreaks of food related illnesses were not common. Many people mishandled their food at home and did not get sick. Many people still mishandle their food at home and do not get sick. Even though the food handling at your facility is not the best, people are not getting sick. It is a risk, not a fact. Is it worth getting so upset and jeopardizing your job over?

[HockingPastryChef]

Originally Posted by jadzea

If I were in your situation I would point out the location of the gloves to the people touching the food and ask them to wear them. Explain your infection control concerns. If they did not wear them I would tell my manager again. Then, I would drop it and look for another job if I could not tolerate the situation. There is only so much you can do in the situation and after awhile you will just make yourself crazy by focusing on the problem.

I might add though, I have called the regulatory agency for my facility and annonymously reported some infractions. Things changed and there was no repercussions because nobody knew who called. I don't know what your options are but I could call the county health department, the state department of health and/or JCAHO if you are accredited. If you are willing to put your job on the line you can tell your manager that you will talk to the administrator of the nursing home if he does not correct the problem.

There are many situations in life that you know are not correct, healthy or fair. As many people have told me, you have to pick you battles in life. Ask yourself if this is a battle you want to fight. I often think about how poorly food was handles in the years gone by. Mass outbreaks of food related illnesses were not common. Many people mishandled their food at home and did not get sick. Many people still mishandle their food at home and do not get sick. Even though the food handling at your facility is not the best, people are not getting sick. It is a risk, not a fact. Is it worth getting so upset and jeopardizing your job over?

First of all I am not that upset, I will not let this get to me. It still doesn't make me think that this is right though; which it isn't. I am just trying to figure out what to do about it since it still hasn't been handled.

I am going to say something to my manager since he said he would address the issue and hasn't yet. If he just wants to make fun of the situation. I will just ask him if he would eat the food and tell him I will see what Human Resources has to say about this situation. It's not my job to complain to these co-workers; I'm not the manager.

If nothing I am still looking for another job too; not just because of that. I want to work in more of a baking industry, like a bakery or baking department somewhere. Maybe even a Pastry Chef at a fine dining restaurant.