[hvert]

One of my colleagues is an admin for a very difficult group of people. These people bully everyone, including this young admin. Management is aware of the problem but considers the people too valuable to reprimand.

I have noticed that whenever I interact with this admin, she starts off by issuing a long apology. The apologies are entirely unwarranted and sound like the kind of thing people do when they are used to being yelled at.

I am worried that a) she has a really bad self-image as a result of the bullying and b) that the apologies invite more abuse. However, it's possible that this is just the way she is, a part of her personality.

Is there a way to start a conversation about this without making it sound like I think she's doing something wrong?

[unaluna]

I would be inclined (since i confess i am an interrupter!) to wave her apology off saying "no need to apologize!" Then say whatever i was going to say. After a few times of this, and enough general positive regard, then maybe start an uplifting conversation about it?

[hvert]

I've waved off the apologies every time, so I think we are at the uplifting conversation point - but I have no idea how to start the conversation. I have a tendency to blurt things out. What if I asked her why she apologizes all the time? Maybe that is too on the spot?

[Little Lulu]

For many reasons, I believe it is risky to tread into someone's 'territory' without their invitation - they may not see the situation as a problem, they may not be ready to address an issue if they do see it, etc. I think a better approach is to be the supportive colleague/friend you are to this individual and if at some point she wants to talk about the situation, she will know you are someone she can trust.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by hvert

I have a tendency to blurt things out. What if I asked her why she apologizes all the time? Maybe that is too on the spot?

That kinda feels like asking her to change, or something else she needs to apologize for. I would probably blurt out that i was sorry that the bullies were mean to her, if i happened to see it? But maybe thats too passive aggressive?!

I had a similar situation, I waited until we were away from the situation and then commented "I think it was really wrong the way you were spoken to by X".

[hvert]

I think Little Lulu captured what I'm worried about - this feels invasive - and, yeah, it's too easy to come off like I am saying she needs to change or apologize for apologizing!

I don't see her being berated - I just know that the group she works for is abusive to everyone and her behavior strikes me as that of a person who has been beaten into submission. The stuff she is apologizing for with me really makes no sense. If I ask if it's raining, she'll apologize for not telling me already, even though it's not her job to tell me and she has no way of knowing that I need to know until I ask, that kind of thing. It's not passive aggressive, either.

[unaluna]

So, lets flip this. You cant say anything negative about other workers, that would just get you in trouble for not being a team member, ie being unsupportive so what can you do to be supportive? Hmmm... "you are so good at handling all the demands the team makes of you." If you can say it without sounding sarcastic - thats what would trip me up!!

[growlycat]

You could take her to lunch outside the offices and just hear her out. Maybe there would be an opening in the conversation where you could voice your concern for her.

[Chango]

I AGREE. After they hear "no need to apologize" enough, it might work.
Also, try to notice if this is something she does IN ALL conversaions, or only those pertaining to issues where the bullies are involved.

Originally Posted by hankster

I would be inclined (since i confess i am an interrupter!) to wave her apology off saying "no need to apologize!" Then say whatever i was going to say. After a few times of this, and enough general positive regard, then maybe start an uplifting conversation about it?

[Chango]

Great response. Great idea!

Originally Posted by hankster

So, lets flip this. You cant say anything negative

about other workers, that would just get you in trouble for not being a team member, ie being unsupportive so what can you do to be supportive? Hmmm... "you are so good at handling all the demands the team makes of you." If you can say it without sounding sarcastic - thats what would trip me up!!

[Chango]

There are some people that apologize for EVERYTHING. It sounds like what you mentioned, an issue of low-self esteem, like she doesn't feel she is worthy, or indeed been beaten into submission. I'd also try to get her outside of a work situation where she may confess or speak to her feelings and maybe you can both work something out. Watch out for YOU first, though.

Now, if she is the administrator that is OVER these bullies, how about her calling a little meeting and calling them on it. As valuable as she is, there are laws against harassment, or anything else that could fall into this category.

Originally Posted by hvert

I think Little Lulu captured what I'm worried about - this feels invasive - and, yeah, it's too easy to come off like I am saying she needs to change or apologize for apologizing!

I don't see her being berated - I just know that the group she works for is abusive to everyone and her behavior strikes me as that of a person who has been beaten into submission. The stuff she is apologizing for with me really makes no sense. If I ask if it's raining, she'll apologize for not telling me already, even though it's not her job to tell me and she has no way of knowing that I need to know until I ask, that kind of thing. It's not passive aggressive, either.

[hvert]

I'm still kind of sitting with this one. In the end, I think it's not any of my business and I have to just leave it alone. I'll keep telling her that there's no need to apologize.

I think that I am taking something that happened to me and sort of reading her situation with that lens. She may not be internalizing those apologies, who knows.

[mcl6136]

my new motto at my job:

STAY IN YOUR LANE.

I rarely intervene these days. And I am way, way happier. If I thought someone was overtly being harmed and they came to me for explicit advice or assistance, I would weigh in. Otherwise, I simply

STAY IN MY LANE.

[hvert]

OMG, I love that, stay in my lane!!!

It's kind of too late, though. I had lunch with a senior manager who is a friend and brought it up. My friend has also noticed this behavior but assumed it was something they were doing to make the admin nervous. The senior manager is going to make sure that the admin knows that she doesn't have to put up with crap from anyone.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by hvert

OMG, I love that, stay in my lane!!!

It's kind of too late, though. I had lunch with a senior manager who is a friend and brought it up. My friend has also noticed this behavior but assumed it was something they were doing to make the admin nervous. The senior manager is going to make sure that the admin knows that she doesn't have to put up with crap from anyone.

Sounds like the situation is being seen for what it IS!

[CosmicRose]

I would sneak in compliments about her work whenever she apologizes. I would be very nice and go out of my way to ask her how her day is going. If she starts saying sorry, I would say "No don't say sorry, you're great at your job!" Small talk usually goes a long way.

[specialneedsmom]

It is sad, but administrative staff often do get bullied. They are considered to be easily replaced. I used to work as an admin, and although anyone else could be late to work and get away with it, admins & clerical workers would be fired if they came late to work even one day.

I have found that the more a person apologizes for things, the more likely they are to keep getting bullied.

I think if I were you I would try to be supportive. This person probably has a self esteem in the gutter by now. It can affect her work performance too.

[hvert]

I like the idea of really emphatically telling her that she's doing a great job when she starts to apologize, thank you.

Specialneedsmom, I agree that the more a person apologizes, the more likely they are to get bullied and blamed for everything that goes wrong. I hope she figures that out and stops doing it.