[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Because I'm terrified of it, and I feel like I'll be a little less judged here than on the more intellectual sites I frequent.

There's an estimation that by 2045 machines will be able to do most jobs. The ones they won't do, I assume, will be programming, engineering, and maybe the arts; I only have promise in one of those, maybe. I'm a failure at STEM, and now it seems the likelihood of supporting myself through crappy low-end jobs is unlikely. It also puts limits on what I think would be worth studying if I do try to educate myself.

People like me will meet one of two fates: be totally crushed and destroyed in a technocratic society (to quote someone online, "Welcome to the information age Luddites, start coding or die."), or be supported as a mass underclass through some new distribution system. Even if the latter happens, don't pretend the technically inclined won't be the future elites.

I find that scientific and tech development actually scares me a little, particularly if it might influence humans somehow. Historical knowledge or stuff in space isn't going to affect me; machines that can read human emotion, work being systematically automated, or the possibility of non-necessary enhancements make me anxious for reasons I can't even explain. I guess that makes me a neo-luddite; I don't like it, but it's true. I mean, I'm indifferent to most kinds of modern tech - I don't even have a smartphone. Maybe it's change I'm scared of.

There's also a part of me that feels like studying STEM would be some defilement of my Self. Like if I became a technical type, working in a STEM field, I'd be less me somehow. I do know I fear a loss of self in regards to modifications to my body PR brain - even perfectly normal modern things like plastic surgery make me feel this way. Smarter people say this feeling is fallacious, misguided, and anti-progress, and I believe them, but I can't help it.

Damn, I didn't mean to write this much.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

So this issue keeps bothering me, especially in regards to tech encroachment on typically "human" fields like the arts. Yet apparently, there are programs that can write novels, compose and play music, and do visual arts mostly independently. What now, then? Computers do literally everything better than humans, so what's the use of existing? We've made, or are about to make ourselves obsolete.

It's not even a singularity issue - this is tech that exists now, is in use right now, but almost no one would call it self-aware.

I guess I find myself getting rather nihilistic about work, and less so about living. How pointless it all seems. Any job I get will soon be outdone by a program and some touchscreens, even my more personal, meaningful aspects are worthless and replicable (superiorly too). Why bother? I wrote a question on another site about it; the sheer ephemerality of human worth is too painful, and it's not even due to some sentient AI like people always thought. We have something like 30-50 years before even intellectual and creative jobs get ceded to machines that do them better:

https://www.quora.com/unanswered/Wha...etely-obsolete

Before anyone talks about relationships, I've given up on those outside of fantasy. And even so, we'll probably have sexbots and virtual caregivers for that. Guess I could get one if I'm still around.

[Strive4health]

I've also noticed this is becoming a topic of late. TBH, out of the sake of my sanity and avoiding depression, I avoid thinking about these issues a lot because 1. I need a job for the next 20-30 years of my life at minimum, so no matter what I have to work, 2. There is nothing I can directly do about it, 3. I've found a lot of job projections aren't always perfect.

The market has become increasingly volatile, and is susceptible to a lot of push and pull. Hopefully in the future our political leaders will realize things like massive outsourcing to other countries isn't helpful to Americans.

[qwerty68]

As a computer scientist(MS in the field) it is my opinion that many of your fears are unfounded. It is true that jobs will be replaced(and have been to a small extent) but it is not likely that all jobs will ever be replaced, including those that don't require degrees.

Computers are dumb, that is not the best way to put it because they have zero intellectual and creative abilities. Zip, nada. Computers can do basic math, read from various kinds of memory and write to memory/screen and not much else. No matter how complex the task it gets narrowed to do those basic tasks(more or less, just keeping this non-technical). Software is dumb as well, but can be made to mimic intelligent systems in a very narrow scope, but are not intelligent.

When the assembly lines first started up people had many of the same fears. Even "unskilled" jobs will not be all replaced by machines in yours or even your grand kids lifetime. There needs to be huge advances in software and robotics for that to happen.

As a recent example, Microsoft released an "AI" chat program and in two days they had to shut it down because it became racist. The reason it did that is that people "taught" it to be that way. It would store peoples responses to other peoples questions and just spew it back out. That is the state of AI. It has no ability to reason or think creatively.

Those chess programs that beat chess masters are similar. They don't think they just were "taught" the rules of chess and fed chess moves from thousands of games played by masters. It had the advantage of quickly recalling counter-moves from a pool much larger than a person can hold in their head.

For a computer program to write an actual novel, it would have to follow the 100 monkeys idea(put 100 monkeys on 100 typewriters and eventually one will write a novel) and it wouldn't even know if it had created a novel.

I don't know a lot about robotics, but I haven't seen one with the dexterity of a human, maybe they exist.

Look at it this way, if what you fear comes true then nearly everyone will be in the same boat as you. I am not saying this because I am currently unemployable, it is what I always believed: Work is not life and a life shouldn't be measured by a person's job. Work pays for life and if humans were freed from having to work, things that are starting to be proposed, like basic income would become reality and people who would have 8-10 more hours a day to do something else, which may or not not be a good thing.

We are so far away from what you fear, that worrying about it is unproductive. I know that is easy to say that, and I have all sorts of fears that I can't get rid of so please don't take this like I am trivializing your fears.

2045 is a long way off, we got 29 years to go! So relax and live one day at a time.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by qwerty68

As a computer scientist(MS in the field) it is my opinion that many of your fears are unfounded. It is true that jobs will be replaced(and have been to a small extent) but it is not likely that all jobs will ever be replaced, including those that don't require degrees.

Computers are dumb, that is not the best way to put it because they have zero intellectual and creative abilities. Zip, nada. Computers can do basic math, read from various kinds of memory and write to memory/screen and not much else. No matter how complex the task it gets narrowed to do those basic tasks(more or less, just keeping this non-technical). Software is dumb as well, but can be made to mimic intelligent systems in a very narrow scope, but are not intelligent.

When the assembly lines first started up people had many of the same fears. Even "unskilled" jobs will not be all replaced by machines in yours or even your grand kids lifetime. There needs to be huge advances in software and robotics for that to happen.

As a recent example, Microsoft released an "AI" chat program and in two days they had to shut it down because it became racist. The reason it did that is that people "taught" it to be that way. It would store peoples responses to other peoples questions and just spew it back out. That is the state of AI. It has no ability to reason or think creatively.

Those chess programs that beat chess masters are similar. They don't think they just were "taught" the rules of chess and fed chess moves from thousands of games played by masters. It had the advantage of quickly recalling counter-moves from a pool much larger than a person can hold in their head.

For a computer program to write an actual novel, it would have to follow the 100 monkeys idea(put 100 monkeys on 100 typewriters and eventually one will write a novel) and it wouldn't even know if it had created a novel.

I don't know a lot about robotics, but I haven't seen one with the dexterity of a human, maybe they exist.

Look at it this way, if what you fear comes true then nearly everyone will be in the same boat as you. I am not saying this because I am currently unemployable, it is what I always believed: Work is not life and a life shouldn't be measured by a person's job. Work pays for life and if humans were freed from having to work, things that are starting to be proposed, like basic income would become reality and people who would have 8-10 more hours a day to do something else, which may or not not be a good thing.

We are so far away from what you fear, that worrying about it is unproductive. I know that is easy to say that, and I have all sorts of fears that I can't get rid of so please don't take this like I am trivializing your fears.

I just saw this now, after spending all day since this morning ruminating (to the point of tears) some existential fears about human obsolescence, desperately looking for someone to talk to, particularly if they're in the field.

My biggest fear is when machines are sapient enough to have creative, intellectual abilities. A machine that can, without huapman assistance, create artwork, make a theoretical scientific discovery, invent a thought experiment, invent anything for that matter, or heuristically reason around a philosophical argument.

Basically, when machines are better at virtually everything then humans, and are carrying on our legacy while we're still around. Leaving us totally useless, with nothing to do and nothing worth doing. Our sole values have been replicated cheaply and surpassed.

I suppose I have some terror of uniquely human things becoming digitally simulatable. Of...I struggle to express it...of the entire human condition, all our experiences, dreams thought, search for meaning, getting handed over to machines because we built things better than us. When there's nothing for us to do and we have no choice but to die out.

Some laymen, when I express these fears, wondering how to cope, basically say something about hubris, useless self-worth, we shouldn't hold back progress because it hurts our egos. It's evolution, it can't be helped, no use worrying over something you can't change. Fine, I can't change it. I want to know how to cope with anything I do for my own self-worth being soon rendered useless by superior machines. Not even people I could compete with.

In addition is this impression I can't get rid of that machines taking over all of human life somehow makes all our abstract, personal, feeling things (our psychology, our longing for identity, our spiritual searches) especially worthless and useless. How can our lives mean anything to ourselves if we cede our major agency to smarter machines we created? What does that even mean, philosophically, that we did that?

It's easy to think of humanity as ephemeral when we'all die out in a few million years, or modify ourselves (the best option, I think, if we make machines better then us at everything); not so much when we'all be obsolete in a few decades. Why do anything? It's all going to be empty very, very soon.

Please send your thoughts, this is causing me too much pain. I never know who to trust about these things: the experts who say we'll have intellectual machines in 40 years, or the ones who believe in (as I, honestly, long for) areas of human exceptionality.

The thing about the racist chatbox made me laugh, and I needed that. I'm not okay today.

[qwerty68]

There has always been a ton of hype and little substance in the history of AI. Really, the biggest gains have been in things like speech recognition. Literally billions of dollars have been spent on it and it is pretty good but it still has issues especially with background noise.

40+ years ago, people were talking about sentient AI, not many talk about it any more. In fact, AI isn't used as a technical term anymore because of the wasted money and hype from the 50's to the 80's when it became downright toxic.

Instead, they use soft computing as a general term or use terms to describe the algorithms, such as fuzzy logic, neural networks and evolutionary computing. Yes, much of the modern AI mimic human processes like neural networks or biological concepts like evolution or immune systems or a combination of them in their design. Almost all require human training and are tightly focused.

Pattern recognition is probably the biggest advances in that field of computer science, speech and things like facial recognition. Computers can be trained fairly easily to find patterns, they still need human help in their training. Neither of which have a negative impact on many jobs.

People mistake me as a tech over everything person, and despite my education I am a bit of a Luddite. For example, I hate my "smart" phone and really hate things like Twitter and Facebook. They are a pox on humanity, but at least Facebook can help you reconnect with long lost friends, so it has some positive value. Twitter? A cesspool, imo.

Computers assist in art and scientific discovery but the software to not only do it independently, but also have that software know it is good art or an actual scientific discovery is not in our near future. Don't believe the hype.

Have you noticed how bad programs like Word are at a lot of grammar correction(their, there, they're, for example)? Now imagine Word trying to judge the quality of your writing.

There is a longstanding question in computer science, in fact if you can prove or disprove it there is a $1 million reward and you would likely win all sorts of awards and lots of fame.

It is P vs NP. I won't bore you with the details but P problems can be quickly solved by a computer. NP are problems that are solvable but not quickly, and usually not for a generalized version of the problem, but its solution can be verified quickly like P problems. Many of the things holding back AI, and lots of other things, is that we don't know if P=NP. There are also intractable problems, mathematically proven to not have a solution.

I suspect a lot of the advances you fear are in NP or intractable. NP problems on a small set can be solved fairly quickly, but once that set grows the runtime characteristics, which are exponential, factorial or worse. becomes too long to run. Like years, decades, centuries, the life of the sun, etc.

The Internet and then the World Wide Web certainly have had a lot of negative(and positive) effects on society as a whole, that is undeniable. The law of unintended consequences is all over both of those.

If your fears play out, I don't think that people will lay down and die. People are driven by purpose, the current status quo is finding jobs to pay for life, but they also start side business, self-study, raise families, etc. That won't change. There are a lot of people on this site who can't work, including me, that still find a purpose in life, as hard as it can be sometimes. I am fortunate in that my hobby is my college major. But I have other hobbies and I help raise my grandkids.

People are pretty flexible when they need to be and there are economic models being explored to mitigate any massive loss of jobs if that does eventually happen. Humans are great in being able to adapt, even when we don't want to.

Imagine what a robot would have to "know" and be able to do to replace, say hotel maids. The reach, dexterity and strength to clean showers and toilets or make the beds.

What if the guest is still staying there and they left a book on the table or bed that has an empty candy wrapper on it. The AI needed to be able to figure out that the wrapper is garbage but not the book is staggering. What if what was on the book wasn't garbage? Just identifying that the garbage and book are two separate objects wouldn't be all that easy. These are trivial things for people to figure out by themselves. For software, that one scenario is fiendishly complex and there would be so many different things it would have to be able to figure out just to be able to perform that one job.

What if someone smashed the TV, could it report that it is damaged? Okay, I will stop there but hopefully this will help you stress less.

Honestly, the biggest threat to many jobs(not service industry though) is outsourcing not automation.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by qwerty68

40+ years ago, people were talking about sentient AI, not many talk about it any more. In fact, AI isn't used as a technical term anymore because of the wasted money and hype from the 50's to the 80's when it became downright toxic.

Really? I thought there was still talk about computers surpassing human intelligence by 2045 or a little later.

People mistake me as a tech over everything person, and despite my education I am a bit of a Luddite. For example, I hate my "smart" phone and really hate things like Twitter and Facebook. They are a pox on humanity, but at least Facebook can help you reconnect with long lost friends, so it has some positive value. Twitter? A cesspool, imo.

I've noticed there are two kinds of tech people: the technophiles who love every new miraculous developent that exists and can't freaking wait for the singularity to happen, and people like you who might make stuff but ultimately are a little less optimistic.

I'm a tech idiot, I don't have a smartphone (mostly because money) and can't really be bothered with social media - though I've considered making some under a fake name as an exercise in image management, and because Facebook sign-in is convenient.

Computers assist in art and scientific discovery but the software to not only do it independently, but also have that software know it is good art or an actual scientific discovery is not in our near future. Don't believe the hype.

Have you noticed how bad programs like Word are at a lot of grammar correction(their, there, they're, for example)? Now imagine Word trying to judge the quality of your writing.

There is a longstanding question in computer science, in fact if you can prove or disprove it there is a $1 million reward and you would likely win all sorts of awards and lots of fame.

How about things like this: A computer program is writing great, original works of classical music. Will human composers soon be obsolete?

These are the puzzles I try to decipher every day, in the persuit for a machine that will one day be able to help us invent new things. New machines, new spaceshuttles, computers and medication. The minds of robots, laced with creative abilities, handle unexpected situations on their own initiative.

We’ve already seen AI systems do it to some extent. We keep working on expanding these systems, and they keep getting better at it. I asked earlier whether computers would ever be capable of invention. They are.

- from here.

Can Computers Write Music That Has A Soul? | Co.Design | business + design This article I deliberately went hunting for. Read that opening paragraph. As an aspiring writer who places a value on self-expression and authenticity, that's utterly repulsive and horrifying. I realize it's a fictitious example, but it seems they can already do it with music...

Quick question about the part I deleted here - what are "p" and "np"? My dumb brain is thinking "plausible/possible" and "not plausible/possible", but I thought I'd ask?

If your fears play out, I don't think that people will lay down and die. People are driven by purpose, the current status quo is finding jobs to pay for life, but they also start side business, self-study, raise families, etc. That won't change. There are a lot of people on this site who can't work, including me, that still find a purpose in life, as hard as it can be sometimes. I am fortunate in that my hobby is my college major. But I have other hobbies and I help raise my grandkids.

People are pretty flexible when they need to be and there are economic models being explored to mitigate any massive loss of jobs if that does eventually happen. Humans are great in being able to adapt, even when we don't want to.

I was thinking that this morning. Sleep always seems to help me the most in problems like this, I swear I wake up with a fresh perspective. And it occurred to me that, simply, I don't have enough faith in humanity on this topic. Enough faith that we could adapt.

Like I said, though I've seen others claim that inability to lie down and die as hubris or unwarranted self-importance, or being afraid of progress, or something. Doesn't make any sense to me. Live or die, it's all just because we want to.

My concern was if all the possible purposeful things have been relegated to machines that do them better. That includes creative pursuits and business-owning (weirdly enough, I'd almost like so see if someone could make an artificial CEO or something. THAT would be a laugh. I'm willing to bet it would be super successful too). Self-study is nice...but it's totally pointless if there's no way you could utilize it, in my opinion.

Not to be rude, but it seems I always get the best advice from people significantly older than myself (you mentioned grandkids...). I guess one reason this worries me so much is the potential for it to happen in my lifetime; it's possible, some say, the end of labor as we know it could happen within my lifetime, or the end of money. And change tends to scare the hell out of me until it actually happens and I have to face it in real time.

[qwerty68]

Sure there is talk, but dig a little deeper and you won't find much substance. In the 70's AI researchers claimed it was 20-30 years away. It can be hard not to get swept away by the hype.

Things like Google Glass make me nerd rage. There actually needs to be a good reason for technology and Glass and things like holographic conference calling serve no real need. Although, the programming language choice of this message board is unfortunate it has actual value far beyond technology for the sake of technology.

How about things like this: A computer program is writing great, original works of classical music. Will human composers soon be obsolete?

From what I can tell from a quick read of that article, a human taught a computer how Bach's compositions were written and it uses those rules to mimic Bach to create something that Bach might have created. That is no different than the chess programs and the racist chat AI in terms of its ability to do things on its own, which is basically nothing. It is a neat program and complex but it can't write completely original works in any given musical genre.

It is a tightly focused "AI", like I mentioned before.

The headline is a red herring. "Will human composers soon be obsolete?". That program does nothing to obsolete musical composers, unless all compositions going forward are based on Bach.

The programmer could also train it to write instrumentals that sound similar to one of my favorites, Nine Inch Nails. Getting it to write lyrics that could pass as Nine Inch Nails? That is a problem harder than writing music. That is a ton of work just to mimic two musical composers.

Generalizing it to create any kind of music on demand? Get it to recognize that what it wrote is good or not? That would be a massive decades or centuries long undertaking with failure the most likely outcome.

Can Computers Write Music That Has A Soul? | Co.Design | business + design This article I deliberately went hunting for. Read that opening paragraph. As an aspiring writer who places a value on self-expression and authenticity, that's utterly repulsive and horrifying. I realize it's a fictitious example, but it seems they can already do it with music...

They can't do it with music, like I explained above.

Quick question about the part I deleted here - what are "p" and "np"? My dumb brain is thinking "plausible/possible" and "not plausible/possible", but I thought I'd ask?

They are mathematical concepts. P is Polynomial Time and NP is Non-deterministic polynomial time. I think it is going too far afield but here is a description of the problem.

Technological progress in the past 30 years has advanced further, than I suspect will progress in the next 30 years. Why? Because we are hitting physical barriers to producing computer hardware. The density of transistors on processors, in RAM, etc are reaching a limit that the laws of physics won't let us go past. In 2000 people thought CPU's would hit 10 Ghz but the CPU frequencies haven't got near that and haven't increased in 5-8 years. They are just making multicore which can increase computing power when the software is written for it. Unless totally new methods and materials are created to make hardware, progress will be mostly limited to software which is handicapped by computing power and that pesky NP and intractable problems.

For a lot of problems, even increasing computing power by 10x or even 1000x still makes those problems impracticable.

Self-study is nice...but it's totally pointless if there's no way you could utilize it, in my opinion

Self-study is never pointless. Even if it isn't tied to a degree or job it has an intrinsic value that can enrich your life. If I were allowed to have more than two minors I would have also received a minor in art history, something about as far from my major as you can get but they were some of the most personally fulfilling courses I ever took. I have the artistic skills of a orangutan after a three day bender but those courses opened my eyes to a new world that I barely knew existed.

Knowledge, however it is gained greatly expands your worldview and that improves your life, thus it has value.

You honestly think that if every job that you could be hired for went away because of automation your life would have no meaning? The value of your life is that you spend a good chunk of your day working for less than you should(I don't recall reading what kind of work you do but most jobs underpay) and at the same time make a richer person than you even more rich?

That is the measure of a life? Are you sure you really feel that way? Why? I think that is a more productive avenue of thought instead of worrying over what might happen 30 years from now.

I hope that didn't offend you but I wanted to put it in the most stark and plain way as possible.

Humans have adapted to lots of changes since the dawn of the industrial revolution.

I am not nearly as old as being a grandfather might imply. I am 47. No, I didn't think you were being rude.

[Pretzelle]

I have a fear of it every once in awhile, but I think a lot of it is unfounded paranoia on my part. There are still a lot of people (not just old people!) who know very little about computers. I'm still surprised by the number of younger people around me who don't have basic computer skills, or afraid of new technology. By simply existing, those people will probably create their own demographic in the future, and they'll be a job for real humans to deal with it. I don't think technology could ever replace human creativity either. Sure, it might be a novelty at first...but people like knowing that something was created by another human being. That's why there are sites for people who sell their arts and crafts. Other people like buying something unique, not something that can be replicated over and over by a machine in a factory.

I'm having a hard time saying exactly what I mean, but here's a video I watched recently. I think it helps, and it made me feel a little better.

Will Robots Make Us More Human?

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by Pretzelle

I have a fear of it every once in awhile, but I think a lot of it is unfounded paranoia on my part. There are still a lot of people (not just old people!) who know very little about computers. I'm still surprised by the number of younger people around me who don't have basic computer skills, or afraid of new technology. By simply existing, those people will probably create their own demographic in the future, and they'll be a job for real humans to deal with it. I don't think technology could ever replace human creativity either. Sure, it might be a novelty at first...but people like knowing that something was created by another human being. That's why there are sites for people who sell their arts and crafts. Other people like buying something unique, not something that can be replicated over and over by a machine in a factory.

I'm having a hard time saying exactly what I mean, but here's a video I watched recently. I think it helps, and it made me feel a little better.

Will Robots Make Us More Human?

Didn't watch the video yet, but I find that interesting you mentioned younger people being uneasy with new technology.

I was just thinking how pitifully anti-progressivw I must seem: I find I prefer things reminiscent of the past then most things charging into the future.

I'm rather master a dead language or read classic novels than study the latest CS development (I tend to be oblivious to them); I prefer old-fashioned aesthetics then anything "modern", which tends to just mean ugly. I find stories from the past more inspiring than anything recent. Most interest I have in modern technology is mostly out of a feeling of obligation, that I should understand it, even though I'm not hugely interested.

Yes, there's some part of me that's irrationally afraid of it too, as this thread basically states. I hate that I'm like this, yet I can't see myself as a technophile either. Like there's something.... lacking, in a hyper-technical existence. Or I could be wrong, intuition isn't always trustworthy.

Probably hypocrisy from someone who can't put down her tablet for 10 minutes, but I guess awareness is the first step.

[qwerty68]

I don't think you are being a hypocrite for making use of a tablet. That device isn't the root of your worries.

There is nothing wrong with being rooted in the past, we all are to some extent or another. The way I see it is that most art, regardless of era, is bad so picky people are going to like more older than newer forms of art. There is nothing wrong with having standards.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

First.....you know I should be a digital native right? I'm almost 22, and basically...I'm finding mroe and more that not only leaps i ntechnology but, to some extent, scientific understanding scares me. It's so stupid, it's so pathetic, and I don't even know why. I've seriously gone from being someone who wanted to study the sceinces, to being utterly horrified of the cold, sterile, technical world, latching onto anything that isn't perfectly explained and desperately trying to avoid subjects taht explain things I care about or find meaningful. Even though, on some intellectual level, I know most things are explainable. But once you know, you're not allowed to view it or experience it the same way, and I can't bear to lose that...

Plus, there's the entire zeitgeist issue of the incoming "robot revolution" where the only jobs soon to be available are STEM, which I'm ont only bad at but scared of now...any advice? I know I'm annoying, but I don't like feeling stuck. And I definitely hate having this pop into my head every time I start looking into job training...

[qwerty68]

You shouldn't feel bad for not wanting to follow the latest trends, and that goes for anything. Books, movies, music,new gadgets, etc. I don't even do that and a person might think I do given my education.

I am not sure what else to write to reassure you that the odds of you being replaced by a robot in your lifetime is very low, especially since you want to be a writer. Computers and software are not creative without the help of a human, who is actually the creative part.

I do understand your fears, I have so many irrational fears that makes my anxiety off the charts every single day. I wish I knew of a way to stop it from happening, but I don't. Even focusing on more productive things doesn't make it go away completely but it does help a little.

Try writing more and see if that helps you.

You could also learn a little about a science that won't directly impact you like astronomy. So many amazing discoveries have been made the past five years. Yes, the discoveries were made possible by technology, but it was humans that made the discovery through painstaking analysis and lots of math.

You mentioned a prior interest in science and I bet studying astronomy could rekindle your interest and reduce your fears since it is an exciting time for that field.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

^ How did you know I wanted to learn more about astronomy?

At the moment that's, like, the least threatening branch of science, from an existential point of view, and I've thought before if I ever went back to school for STEM and could improve my skills, I might want to do something pertaining to space - research or engineering, maybe. I used to want to major in MechE, but I'm too dumb for that.

I guess my problem is...I feel like I shouldn't be afraid of the incoming future. But I am. Even things besides replacement, just massive changes in how we live, I worry easily that I'll never be able to cope with it, that I'm going to be left behind, out in the cold, while everyone else pushes on ahead or loses any need for me altogether. It seems like such a stupid fear, but I find it growing to the point of almost technophobic anti-science. And I definitely don't want to be that - I'll never be a futurist either...

The thing about writing, is it's unlikely I could do it as a career. My main mode of support would need to be a day job. I also feel some cognitive dissonance regarding my preference for fantasy - there's something that feels dirty about living in a highly technological society where machines are better than us at everything, yet writing about magic and human life and triumph (and failure). Honestly, the first part of that sentence brought back some pain about my own feelings regarding life and living... we value the human narrative, but do we have any business doing so?

I need to stop now. But I have started drafting character profiles and plot stuff to actually write for real.

[qwerty68]

I must be a mind-reader. It seemed like a logical thing since so many cool things are coming out of it and like I said it shouldn't trigger your fears.

I don't see any evidence that you "are too dumb" for mechanical engineering or anything related. It is a matter of interest, time and of course money. Computers may be able to do math way faster than you, but they could never write Moby ****(Wow, I should have seen that coming), err A Tale of Two Cities. Robots are used extensively on automobile assembly lines, but they still require people to be on the lines to work alongside the machines. There is no robot or computer that can design a car or engine or anything like that.

As for writing, yeah it seems like it might be a hard thing to break into, but I don't know. However, because of technology all it costs is time, effort, a computer and an internet connection. Plus, self-publishing, whether it is e-books or publishing on a blog, is easily done. You can work a day job and be a writer. You never know, if you write enough you might find you won't need a day job.

That is the only reason I do not regret getting a BS and MS in Computer Science since I have been unemployable for 6 years and counting. I have the theoretical background to do just about anything in the field and it has the same barrier to entry as writing in most areas. Granted, I am not going to be writing an operating system or an office suite to compete with Microsoft but there are a lot of areas that are doable by myself. My computer and internet connection is all I need to get started. I do have several programming projects underway but on a good day I can focus for 2, maybe 3 hours so progress is slow.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

I really really really really want people to look at this. As far as I can tell, we're all of us done:
Could you fall in love with this robot?

So. We officially have sentient, emotionally intelligent machines, soon to be deployed in what are typically considered the most human of fields (in the video she even mentions making art and running a business).

There is literally no reason to live now. Nothing I or anyone else ever does can be worth anything, not with super intelligent machines who are better at everything and cheaper too. The inventor goes on about working alongside us, rehumanizing us - what an load of bull. There's literally nothing left to do, nothing worth doing. They're creative and sentient, and are soon to replace us while we're still alive. Mine is the last generation.

Life as we know it has lost any semblance of meaning with the existence of this....creature? There is nothing we can do, we're all useless and worthless now, except maybe if we can be part of the engineering elite. I can't though - I'm stupid, useless, and incompetent and always will be. What's the point of learning new skills now?

Of course, no one will reply to this, no one ever seems to be able to tell me how to cope, but falsely assure me that human obsolescence is a long way off, when instead it's right there, activated last month.

I can't cope with this, with where the world is going. All I wanted.... all I wanted was to carve out some sort of value, to be a respectable, lovable, successful person, to do something of merit. Apparently I was born too late.

[qwerty68]

I didn't falsely assure you. Look at what the robot actually did and ignore what the creator is saying it might be able to do in some future in his head. That thing is not sentient, I am not sure how you could see that. It has no feelings and can't do anything unless specifically trained to do so.

You should note that the robot did nothing of value, said nothing it wasn't trained to. That thing isn't running a business much less holding down the simplest of jobs. That thing does nothing that obsoletes anything that humans do. NOT ONE THING

Of course the guy believes he can do it within 20 years, he is searching for funding. The lifelike appearance is interesting, but he is far from the first person to do something like this. That thing is no more advanced than the chess playing computer and the racist chat AI program I told you about. The difference is the robotics and that, while interesting, doesn't replace people.

Lots of hype, no substance.

Besides, why do you place so much of your self-worth on your employment? That is really concerning to me.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by qwerty68

I didn't falsely assure you. Look at what the robot actually did and ignore what the creator is saying it might be able to do in some future in his head.

You should note that the robot did nothing of value, said nothing it wasn't trained to. That thing isn't running a business much less holding down the simplest of jobs. That thing does nothing that obsoletes anything that humans do. NOT ONE THING

Of course, the guy believes he can do it within 20 years, he is searching for funding. The lifelike appearance is interesting, but he is far from the first person to do something like this. That thing is no more advanced than the chess playing computer and the racist chat AI program I told you about. The difference is the robotics and that, while interesting, doesn't replace people.

Lots of hype, no substance.

And this, is rightly what I get for typing out my runaway emotions. Good god, I'm sorry.... that probably doesn't sound sincere at all but I panicked hard over this. I'd already been ruminating about my technophobia earlier today.

Did you watch the video too? "I hope to one day [do a bunch of stuff]". It occurred to me that that's just a line programmed for it to say, but the content embodies my own concerns. Will the future just be coexistence with sentient machines, or actually cutthroat competition as we cede all activities to them? People keep saying it's a matter of when, not if.

I feel insane worrying about this. I feel like I'm losing my mind. But some intuition tells me it's a big deal that I need to be on guard about.

Besides, why do you place so much of your self-worth on your employment? That is really concerning to me.

Not employment, but capacity to achieve and compare. If there's nothing to do, there's nothing to accomplish, and nothing to derive a sense of worth from. Similar if what you accomplish can be effortlessly outdone by a machine.

A nonemployment example would be creativity, like I talked about earlier in this thread. Why slave over mastering an artistic craft when a machine can master it in minutes of uploading then produce from a database works far superior to anything you could make on your own? There's no way to compete.

Also, I desperately need a job right now, and the possibility of there soon being nothing to pursue terrifies me. Like talk of this thing being used in healthcare - I've been considering studying to be a CMA, but if those jobs won't exist in a few years, why bother?

It feels like so many doors in life are being closed to me every day, either by the progression of society and technology, or revelations about my own abilities. That's where most of my stress comes from.

[qwerty68]

I hope I didn't sound terse or angry, I am not. I do understand your emotions. I just really wanted to reassure you are not and will never be, obsolete.

I did watch it. It was interesting but didn't see any AI advances. I did notice that no one asked it something random and off the wall, just really basic small talk. I found it interesting but the face creeped me out. I don't know if robots will ever have a face that completely mimics a human face. I couldn't fall in love with it because I watched this high school educational film.



If you haven't seen that before hopefully it will make you laugh.

I can see how that video triggered your anxieties. There likely will be robots that take over some menial tasks more often in the future. But that is a long way from creating a sentient robot. Training a robot in a narrow scope is one thing, a thinking robot is entirely different and no one has come close. In my opinion we won't simply because we don't really know much about the brain.

Even if your fears come true there will always be things to achieve and to work towards. There is nothing that could ever prevent you from pursuing writing for instance.

Show me a computer program that can write something simple and artistic, like a poem and have that program know it just wrote a valid, good poem that makes sense. It doesn't exist. I mentioned it before, but look how bad spelling and grammar checkers are. Tens of millions of dollars have been invested just to get it to the poor level that they are today. I wish they were better because my grammar sucks.

The people who say it is a matter of when have a financial stake in saying exactly that. I could give you a long list of things that have been hyped over the years but somehow never made it to market.

You seem very articulate and intelligent to me. I think you are quite capable of opening whatever doors you like.

Robotics of one level or another are used today in some surgeries, but they are not replacing surgeons. They assist surgeons, they do not replace them. Take something simpler like phlebotomists. It is difficult for an experienced one to poke me properly on the second try because my veins aren't visible, they have to push around. A robot with that sort of "neurological feeling" would be rather difficult to create, if it is even possible.

I noticed in another thread you were talking about getting help and how you are struggling with it. I know that fear. I always make my pdoc start the conversation because I never know what to say. If you do go, lead with this. It is something that is really bothering you, and it might be a symptom of something specific, but at the very least it will give the therapist a starting point.