[MoxieDoxie]

........if you're willing to share, is your take on "burnout"...have you felt it and what did you feel led to it the most.

[seesaw]

I'm totally about to burnout...I took on a job the past 10 days (can't believe it's only been 10 days) and I've worked almost 12-13 hours a day for each of those days, including the two weekends. But the project is just about over and the client is happy, wants me to do more work...so...how am I going to deal with the burnout?

Well, I'm going to make sure to take the weekend off. And since we're out of the emergency project zone now, we will plan ahead and I will be sure to set boundaries with my work so that I can take my dogs to the park and eat lunch and enjoy my evenings. I'm also going to go to a trivia night meetup next week to do some socializing. So, I think just having some time that's not working is what helps me not burnout. It goes back to that self care.

For example, because I'm making a good check on this job, I've scheduled a cleaning service to come in and clean my place tomorrow. It's a splurge, but I've been working so much, I dont' want to spend what little free time I have on cleaning. It's actually fairly affordable if I only do it once a month and budget properly. Like $80. That's a little bit of a reward but it will also help with my stress level.

It was funny because yesterday my client was unavailable for like 90 minutes and when she came back online she said she was getting a massage, and I was like, yeah, you gotta make sure to carve out time for YOU, so you stay healthy and happy. Even when you like your job, you need downtime.

Seesaw

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

........if you're willing to share, is your take on "burnout"...have you felt it and what did you feel led to it the most.

Oh, sorry, what led to it? Spending all my time working and doing absolutely nothing else. Thinking that if I didn't take care of things, no one would. Being overly controlling...yup...that was what caused my burnout.

[ArchieAus]

Career burnout ? , yes overly long hours , constantly contacted when not at work and high stress environment . My occupation has always been known for excessively long hours , but when I took over running the operations ..maybe 16 to 17 years ago ? Things became much more intense . 12 hour days plus 2 hours travel 5 days a week ( nothing really unusual about that ) . Working weekends when we were behind production , or budgets or production schedules had to be in , plus being contacted via mobile both by calls and email at night and through the weekend and often going to site out of hours . Not being able to release that stress or fully forget . Even on annual leave I would be constantly checking emails and taking and making calls .
One word of caution would be don't let it get to the stage when you have a sort of a mental meltdown with it . I could feel the cracks opening up for about 10 years , but felt obligated and expected to continue to put that effort in ( this was 4 different jobs but doing the same thing at each operation ) . I blocked out the signs because this is the industry I have been in all my life and showing signs of weakness is not the done thing in this industry . Also the golden handcuff. I'm paid good dollar for my lifetime of experience , but have no skills in the normal world . So as I said I pushed it too far . I took 6 months off work trying to get my mind back in order , read about how to reverse burnout ....it only worked partly . I have been back doing the same thing for two years ( albeit a smaller operation which has the same issues but not as crazy as before ) . I'm still not right , I won't ever have the same capacity again I believe . I struggle with post burnout every day at work or when I'm contacted out of hours . So it sounds like one of those things yeah .. " I'm suffering burnout " ...." ok , take a week off and you'll be right as rain , all better " . You may not be , I'm not . I'm embarrassed to even admit that this had so much effect on me . It seems like such a weak assed thing to say this happened to me . I was known for my mental strength . I made it worse by not listening to my mind and stretching it to breaking point .

[MoxieDoxie]

I feel burnout when I do not block time off my schedule for self care and schedule clients in the slots because I feel if I do not the clients will not return for more business or if i do not make a certain amount of money I will feel worthless that I do not deserve things like a couple of degrees warmer in the house or cooler in the summer. I wont even buy new underwear. I do not feel deserving.

I am someone, because of my mental health issues, need decompression time more so than most and I become very stressed easily. To much interaction with people also cause me burnout. If I have two days in a row of 6-9 clients a day I can feel it welling up in me. So I know that my comfort zone is 5 clients a day and I function so much better. Anything less than 3 clients scares me that I am not making enough or my business is failing and I freak.

[MoxieDoxie]

Ok if you were wondering why I am asking it is because my ex-T that I moved away from and am actually long distance friends with e-mailed me this:

I'm giving a talk in May on "Burnout".

It's their topic but I'm going to be talking about how having an IFS "way of life" leads to less burnout. Having less extreme parts by witnessing how they HAD to do what they did at one time, and unburdening those parts helps to reduce burnout...

But what I'd like to hear, if you're willing to share, is your take on burnout...have you felt it and what did you feel led to it the most etc...

[ArchieAus]

Copy that. Well I hope those methods will be of assistance to people who follow them . I wouldn't call myself a typical case . Perhaps things may have been different had I consulted some form of physician. I don't even go to medical doctors really . Hospital yes , a few rock fall injuries and the normal operations people have ..appendix etc .
The background is worth tabling if probably boring . During the process of knowing I was beginning to crack we had the minerals price collapse in 2012 . In a few months previously profitable mines became unviable . People lost their jobs , their homes , their businesses . Charlotte , which is a 50 year old underground mine which I was mine foreman of was on a knife edge for viability . Efforts had to be doubled . For three years I felt people's and their family's future in every decision I was making . Finally the gold price went up enough and of even more importance the US dollar strengthened which meant it broke parody with the Aussie dollar increasing our profit . None of that helped in being able to manage myself .
Burnout/nervous breakdown ? , it's all pretty grey where they start and finish ,
.
But I hope you can juggle your workload so you can handle it . It's easier to say that to do tho huh .

[Revu2]

Hi Moxie,

What does IFS mean in "an IFS 'way of life'"?

r

[Revu2]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

........if you're willing to share, is your take on "burnout"...have you felt it and what did you feel led to it the most.

Yes, feeling a bit of it now. Not actually in the exhausted range, but definitely in the warning zone. I notice a shudder in my body when thinking of adding fresh work. It's saying, "feel this? that's what you might be setting up."

One thing that leads to it for me is everything takes longer than you plan for it. So due dates and such begin to bunch together and the closer to the due date the more focus on perfection and where IS that file I thought I saved and yes I sent it to you——you didn't get it?, okay I will send it again [add this to the list] and did she just imply that I'm not professional—breathe and keep my trap shut for now (steaming inside) and what's that burning smell ... the rice! ... or my spirit??

Revu2

[MoxieDoxie]

Originally Posted by Revu2

Hi Moxie,

What does IFS mean in "an IFS 'way of life'"?

r

Oh it means Internal Family systems

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Revu2

Yes, feeling a bit of it now. Not actually in the exhausted range, but definitely in the warning zone. I notice a shudder in my body when thinking of adding fresh work. It's saying, "feel this? that's what you might be setting up."

One thing that leads to it for me is everything takes longer than you plan for it. So due dates and such begin to bunch together and the closer to the due date the more focus on perfection and where IS that file I thought I saved and yes I sent it to you——you didn't get it?, okay I will send it again [add this to the list] and did she just imply that I'm not professional—breathe and keep my trap shut for now (steaming inside) and what's that burning smell ... the rice! ... or my spirit??

Revu2

I am feeling that right now. I need to sit down tomorrow and look at my calendar and book out time. See how much I really have time to do before I commit to any new projects.

[hvert]

After years of working incredibly long hours, always on call, I burnt out and took a break. Now I still feel burnt out working 3 days a week. At this point, I have to believe the burnt out feelings have more to do with me than anything else. I feel personally responsible for things I have no real control over.

[Revu2]

@seesaw, thanks for this "getting a massage" as it was my tie-breaker whether today I would brave misty weather to go get one or keep on task.

I made my reservation Wed with the option to cancel by Thursday. Didn't cancel and today feel it's right.

For years I've had Reiki trading sessions, but for a mix of reasons that's on hold right now. I'm open to more, but my initiating strength is stressed too thin doing my other stuff.

Candle burning: add now prospects of adding a fresh client. Proposal due Monday.
Sigh,
R.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Revu2

@seesaw, thanks for this "getting a massage" as it was my tie-breaker whether today I would brave misty weather to go get one or keep on task.

I made my reservation Wed with the option to cancel by Thursday. Didn't cancel and today feel it's right.

For years I've had Reiki trading sessions, but for a mix of reasons that's on hold right now. I'm open to more, but my initiating strength is stressed too thin doing my other stuff.

Candle burning: add now prospects of adding a fresh client. Proposal due Monday.
Sigh,
R.

I totally get it. I have found that my clients will accept push back to a certain extent. It's all about boundaries.

[ArchieAus]

Originally Posted by hvert

After years of working incredibly long hours, always on call, I burnt out and took a break. Now I still feel burnt out working 3 days a week. At this point, I have to believe the burnt out feelings have more to do with me than anything else. I feel personally responsible for things I have no real control over.

Your an interesting dude hvert , enjoy reading your posts . Probably absolutely nothing in common , but a kindred spirit where this is concerned . It is that sustained , decades long experience . The biggest risk factor is you don't burn out like other people . You keep going , drive through it . Others burnout and recover perhaps . You pushed through those barriers , ignored the suffering , showed incredible mental strength . Then it got to a point your mind rebelled out of self preservation . When you get to that point there's no " refresh yourself and come back the same " . You have my greatest respect for the effort and mental toughness you have displayed over your work career .
Here's one of my nutter paragraphs for you hvert ... during the Second World War there were many German fighter aces who fought through the war amassing massive air to air combat victories . By 1944 many of them had cracked from the constant battle fatigue . The Allies rotated their pilots . The Germans were in it for the duration , till they died or their mind failed . Adolf Galland ( 103 air victories ) took over a small compliment of jet fighters ( the worlds first jet fighter ) he combed the fatigue hospitals , he spoke to others that had cracked and convinced them to swap their hospital clothes for their combat uniform again . There were many of these few . It would take a box of beer to tell you about all of them . One was Walter Kaprinski (176 air victories ) he was a legendary combat pilot , but then it became too much after years of unbearable effort ,he started to be known for calling in fake issues with his aircraft and returning to base . He left the fatigue hospital with Galland and joined JV44 . War is stupid , but it's not about war . It's about a few honourable high achievers who burnt themselves out to a point their mind failed and was never the same again . They found comfort and a purpose by banding together as a unit . You would make a good member of JV44 hvert , and I'd be honoured to fly as your wingman .

[hvert]

That's a unique compliment, thank you What an interesting story about JV44 - I wonder how he persuaded them to return...

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by hvert

After years of working incredibly long hours, always on call, I burnt out and took a break. Now I still feel burnt out working 3 days a week. At this point, I have to believe the burnt out feelings have more to do with me than anything else. I feel personally responsible for things I have no real control over.

For a very long time I was on call 24/7. I started setting boundaries this past year. I let my team know I was available for emergencies but they had to call, not email. And I set up rules for myself about when I was going to actually check work email, etc., if I wasn't actually at work (mind you, this was with a regular 60 hour work week, so it wasn't like I wasn't at work all the time anyhow).

I actually didn't find as much push back as I expected.

Now that I work independently, I don't mind putting in some incredibly long days but I also balance back out taking the time off when I need it. I'm pretty available at all hours to my clients, so if I decide I need to go for a walk and not get back to them for an hour, I don't get a whole lot of push back.

Now, if we're on a deadline, they expect me to be there when they call and I expect to be there for them. But when we're not on deadline or deadline if further away, we respect the boundaries.

I really think avoiding burnout is all about having boundaries. Even if you have to work nonstop for a time or incredibly long hours, even having the boundary of taking on full half day off a week for yourself...I think if work is running your life, you are very likely to burnout.

I don't think burnout is a sign of mental weakness either. It's your body and mind telling you that you need a break. Just like pain is a response telling you there is something wrong. It's a symptom. And symptoms need to be heeded.

Seesaw

[hvert]

What I've found interesting about burnout is that even with 20-30 hours a week, the burnout feelings/stress/etc is still there. I should really switch to a completely different field to see if it goes away.

When burning out, there's often pressure to work longer and harder, especially when my performance starts slipping.

It's not easy. I can't handle 60 hour work weeks anymore. I'm fatigued by 45 - 50. I watch my vendors burn out their people pushing 12 hour days.

[divine1966]

I work two jobs so my burnout is permanent until we get a raise (who knows when) and I won’t have to work two jobs. We took pay cut in 2009 and since then didn’t have a single raise.

Interesting topic.

I think it can occur from physically working excessive hours or from taking on too much responsibility (like Hvert says beyond what is our remit).

I even got volunteer burn out once - that is really easy to do because volunteers do not have holidays to take! I took way too much on my shoulders which is a trait of mine.

[leomama]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

........if you're willing to share, is your take on "burnout"...have you felt it and what did you feel led to it the most.

I definitely have moments where I want to quit especially when I’m talked down to or criticized because someone else didn’t understand what I’m doing. I also get really frustrated when someone’s who been in the job less time then me and breaks serious rules thinks they can tell me what to do without being my supervisor.

[Revu2]

Thanks Leomama for bringing in power dynamics as an important part of that ol' burn out feeling. Most of them can be reconciled to less of a burning feeling either directly or with the help of the whole group of people assisting one another to "see the light" or "agree to disagree" or "respect traditions and boundaries" or whatever seems to help.

We lack built-in means for reconciling throughout the whole culture. We don't even agree on the need for them. Could there be an app for this? Who would buy it and use it?

I've been researching what was once alive and vital reconciling practices in the Anglo-American timeline. It's not in the history books taught in schools, trust me. I find reconciling very much alive from a long time ago and very much alive but hidden in pockets. I want to get more of this going and its one of my life's missions.

Reconciling doesn't have to be a big dramatic court case type thing. I once had a boss who brought in a family therapist once a month to facilitate the reconciling of slights, disagreements, missed communication, etc. that has built up over the past month. Brilliant, because we worked under extreme pressure and when something happened didn't have the base culture much less time to process it in the moment.

My fireplace needs me now,

Revu2

[leomama]

We have that in my church but it’s been hard for me to attend church this week because of work and logistics.

I am so angry with my younger coworkers and supervisors. They abuse employee privileges, they are rude, they break the rules. Part of that was because the previous manager apparently didn’t care. I have my one on one with my new manager in a couple of weeks where I’ll be going over my frustrations. I don’t want to snitch but seeing my coworkers and supervisors behavior is very demoralizing. I know I can always send my manager an email if I get to the boiling point.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by leomama

We have that in my church but it’s been hard for me to attend church this week because of work and logistics.

I am so angry with my younger coworkers and supervisors. They abuse employee privileges, they are rude, they break the rules. Part of that was because the previous manager apparently didn’t care. I have my one on one with my new manager in a couple of weeks where I’ll be going over my frustrations. I don’t want to snitch but seeing my coworkers and supervisors behavior is very demoralizing. I know I can always send my manager an email if I get to the boiling point.

I would be careful about how you phrase your complaints. Managers like people with solutions not just complaints.