Job rejections, a toxic work environment and lowered self esteem

I got the job!!!!!!!!!!!!’

HURRAH!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!





!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats!!!! Great news!!!! When do you start?

Thanks so much @Bill3!!!

And thanks so much @divine1966!!!! I start two weeks from Monday!!

Because the offer happened RIGHT at the end of my work day, I wrote a very brief resignation letter to my CEO and VP just before 5:30 PM when they would be signing off. I wanted to be sure they saw it so that I would be giving a full two weeks' notice for them.

I had written a straight forward, "I am giving my notice. My last day will be two weeks from today. Thank you so much for all the opportunities you've given me to grow and learn".

Something like that. Well, my CEO called me and clearly wasn't happy with the way I wrote my resignation. He said "so, you learn things here, then take it elsewhere?" in a snide way.

I tried to give him a lot of positives about my experience in the company, but then eventually told him our team is lacking leadership and that we as a team need a strong leader -- I mentioned the high turnover in that role. Then I told him some of the negatives that had driven me to want another role: that I was far too overloaded with clients, that my plate and workload was far too stressful, and that I am very burnt out. I also mentioned that this other company is willing to pay me more and has strong leadership in place. I told him that I have to look out for myself at this time in my career - that I am not getting any younger and that time is ticking by.

So then my CEO twists all of that around to basically tell me I am selfish. He also said he had defended me a bunch when the VP griped to him that I wouldn't help out. How could I help, I told the CEO, when my own workload, deadlines AND clients would suffer if I did put my work aside to help others? I told him, I helped as much and when I could, but really, you need more staff on the team, plus a team leader. In the end, he told me he is surprised and disappointed.

But otherwise, I felt anything positive I tried to say, he poisoned it with a negative spin. We hung up the phone, and I could tell he wasn't happy with me. ARGH!!

I am SO glad I am leaving, but at the same time, I REALLY need a positive reference from my CEO for the future, and I need to maintain a positive rapport with him. And now he's not happy.

Just talked to my dad about it. He said, why did you feel the need to justify or defend your decision?

And I did with my CEO - I felt very defensive about it when getting on the phone with him, and when being attacked by him with his accusations.

I've heard that the CEO can react this way, go silent on someone who is leaving, and then will say positive things about the person two years later.

I really need his positive reference in the future. How do I make sure I have a positive reference from him?

You really didn’t have to explain anything. It’s not anyone’s business why you are leaving. I am with your dad in this. If someone insists, then making more money is good enough, have to save for retirement. Or not having to commute anymore. But even that not their business. “It’s a decision I had to make for myself and my family”.

No other reasons needed.

And usually it serves no purpose to tell higher ups (when resigning) that they don’t run their business right. First of all they typically know but just don’t care. Second of all they’ll say it’s her subjective opinion plus she was a bad employee and likes to place the blame. It’s not like your feedback is going to improve the company. It won’t. It’s not like they live in the dark and see the light because of your revelation. They aren’t dumb. They know

You can use other people for actual reference. Doesn’t have to be him. He is unprofessional. I’d not worry about making him writing you positive references. If someone calls him as a former employer he can’t speak poorly of you anyways. It’s not how it’s done

I understand being a worrier but stop worrying about stuff that’s not important.

I never said he doesn't run his business right. I told him that strong leadership has been lacking within my department specifically, that they are under-staffed and therefore, that I became overworked and burnt out. That's very different from telling him that he runs his business poorly. I told the truth, and he already is aware of these things, yet doesn't do anything or act quickly enough to fix them so that good people don't leave. That's his issue and his problem to resolve. I also said many positive things about the company, about him and about my experience there.

And I do worry about getting a good reference. I need a good reference, as the company owner before him won't give me one because she bullied me, and I got her into trouble with HR at the company. I cannot keep relying on references from 7-10 years ago. I think in my case, my concerns are very valid.

Ok. I see. I am just saying you don’t need to defend yourself or explain when you leave jobs (as tempting as it is) especially if you still want good references and your reasons are because company sucks. People leave jobs all the time.

But that’s too late. You already said it. You just have to decide what’s important to defend yourself and let them have it or to have good references.

Sometimes telling the truth is more important and sometimes leaving on good terms is. It really depends on particular circumstances.

Perhaps I didn’t say it right that you have to stop worrying. I meant not worry after the fact. You already said all that amd can’t go back.

I meant more like if you want good reference and not sure you can get it, then don’t tell your reasons for leaving. Otherwise it’s worrying after the fact when you can’t change it

I’d now focus on starting a new job in a positive mood and forget about this. Maybe just be extra productive next two weeks and leave them with good impression

Hey @HaveHope you did way better than I would’ve. First of all he took you off guard with a call and hammered you with rapid fire questions about your work there
Then he invalidated you and turned
It into “pick on hope time “ I would have talked too much as well but once
The criticism began this is how
I would have proceeded: “ as I mentioned in my letter thanks for all the opportunities to work on projects that helped my personal growth. But this conversation is not helpful. It sounds a lot like blame, shame and playing a game. We’ve talked enough about what was and I don’t need your input or permission to feel good about being hired for a better position because I have the skills they were looking for. I will be expecting a reference letter that is truthful and accurate and positive before my two weeks are up. If you can’t do that please tell me so I can pick somebody else who will honestly assess my qualities as a personal reference. Now if you don’t mind “F**k you f**k off and go f**k yourself “. But that’s me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly what I will do - finish up well, and leave them with some positive feelings.

@sarahsweets, lol... your post made me laugh. I SO wish I could say these things.

The thing is, I couldn't plan for what I would say to the CEO because it all happened so quickly, and I wanted to give my notice on that same day. I practically couldn't help myself - before I knew it, I was telling him I was burnt out. But what's wrong with that, anyways? It's the truth!

Congratulations on getting the job. Onward and upward!

@Molinit, thanks so much.

It's been a LONG HAUL.

I really struggled to obtain this one, after months and months of interviewing. I almost feel like I have post traumatic stress from it all.

And yes, onward and upward!

Getting out of and finishing up at this most toxic work environment is stressing me out to no end. I have far too many clients, far too much work to deliver, and my company is also going to make me write up a transition document for every single client of mine, which is 8 clients, on top of all the work I have to do. I really don't want to work overtime hours, into the evening or on the weekends, but if I want a positive reference, I will have to do it.

I am super resentful right now and I absolutely hate them. I hate what they've done to me, I hate how the CEO reacted to my leaving, and I hate everything about this place. I am SO done there.

I do feel like I have some PTSD as a result of both my interviewing experience this go around, and as a result of my company. I am beaten up.

I would write the transition documents as my first priority and then as time allows, work on what I can in the time I have left. I think even if you finish every scrap of work and write fantastic transition documents, this company may not give the glowing review you are seeking (mainly getting that from the phone conversation you had), so please don't knock yourself out. You will be even more upset when you kill yourself doing it all and they still refuse to provide a letter of recommendation.

Also - regarding the phone conversation. In the future if this ever happens to you again, tell the caller they caught you in the middle of something and you'll need to call them back, then consider what to say and return the call. While they seemed to be asking why you were leaving, they didn't really want to know the truth. Be vague, mention needing a change, better opportunity came along, whatever.

I really don't think it was as bad as some people think - it's not like I told him off or said he's running the company terribly, and this is what's wrong. He told me he already is aware of the issues in my department. The telltale sign will be if he unfriends me on Facebook - yes, he friended me when I was re-hired, and I felt obligated to accept the request.

My VP said "no biggie" to me in response to my reasons for leaving. He told me he had spoken to our CEO on Friday, and "no biggie".

I have to follow a protocol and meet deadlines for my work, so I cannot put any work aside. So I will have to work this weekend to get the transition documents done.

Now, someone who WON'T be able to get a good reference from my CEO is my co-worker who also is leaving by the end of this week. She went against the CEO's instructions when she gave her notice. His instructions were to not inform any clients or colleagues, which she went ahead and did, against his wishes because she felt it was the right thing to do to make it a seamless transition. He called her and berated her on the phone yesterday for a half an hour about how she is messing with his reputation as a business owner and how that could harm his company. She didn't seem to care. She told me that she has plenty of references, and basically, that my CEO (and his company) can go screw themselves. She is beyond fed up.

Now, I have not done anything against his wishes and I only told him that my department needs help, which he already knew. He wrote me yesterday telling me not to tell anyone I am leaving, and that they must come up with a plan first before telling anyone. So I will keep my mouth shut for as long as they want me to.

WOW - just WOW. So, my CEO sent a company-wide email, announcing that my account manager and myself are leaving the company. This account manager is the one he chewed out on the phone the day before, who had gone against his wishes and instructions to not tell clients and staff she was leaving.

Well, get this. In this email announcement, he wrote a few kind words about me within one sentence, yet he wrote several sentences praising the account manager. I am really offended..... I spent nearly 3 years in the company and worked very hard. All he acknowledged was that I had been back with the company for less than one year and that I had added value to the team and for my clients. He didn't even pay heed to the fact that my entire tenure was nearly 3 years, and that in that timeframe, I had achieved a LOT and had developed some great client relationships. NOTHING. And here he was, praising the account manager instead? Who had pissed him off?!?

On top of this, there is a tool my team needs to do a portion of their work. I gave my case for it yesterday to the CEO, at the end of which he said he still doesn't see the value in it and then got off the phone quickly to run to another meeting.

I feel like a big fat failure all around right now. I am not leaving this company feeling GOOD, like I should be - I should be feeling good that I spent 3 years working really hard, developing client relationships, retaining important clients, and achieving the successes I was able to achieve, given the challenges presented.

But noo.... I am left feeling like total CRAP - what a great way to walk into a new job!

I am completely pissed off and beyond fed up with my company and CEO.

My therapist last night said, well, the CEO's words only just emphasize to you why you are leaving. YES. TRUE.

But still, we need this tool very badly to do our work, and the CEO says he doesn't see the value? The freaking CEO who RUNS the company doesn't even understand my field whatsoever, yet he runs the company and sells these services to clients without even understanding the work that is involved????? And therein, lies the entire problem and WHY the company is sinking like a flaming ship on the open sea and why employees are leaving in droves!

And to give me only a FEW kind words, and that's all????????

To boot, another account manager arranged for a goodbye employee Zoom lunch for the two of us who are leaving. I have NO desire to attend, feeling the way I feel. I want to slink away quietly. What do I say to these people? WOW, am I happy to be leaving this F'ing place - what a DISASTER and BEST OF LUCK to all of you!!!! LOL. I have NO clue how to handle this goodbye lunch. UGH.

The reason I said not to knock yourself out on the work needing to be done is exactly what happened. The recommendation you seek on leaving was going to be mediocre/lukewarm and so will any recommendation letter. It will be complimentary but won't talk about your great work ethic and effort you've put in over your time with the company. It's because you gave well-meaning advice that they didn't want to hear.

It just seemed to me like that was how it was going to go. So again, if you want to work overtime and put forth all that effort and deplete yourself because you feel it's the right thing to do, great. But you are probably going to get a favorable, if lukewarm, recommendation whether you kill yourself doing the work or not. I'm a person who will not put energy into a sinking ship, so my personal choice would be to preserve my energy for my fresh start in a new company and just do an adequate job on the things needing to be done at the present one utilizing the time I have left (without spending extra time outside business hours).

Thanks for your perspective, @Molinit. I am working enough to get done what needs to get done without killing myself.

I already have a written glowing reference from my CEO on my LinkedIn profile, so there's that which already exists. So, there's that.

On the plus side, I am very enthused about my new job! The CEO is a FEMALE, she is a philanthropist and gives a percentage of company profits to charity, and she gives two pald days off for employees to volunteer, if they want to. She hires only good people she says and asked me about my ethics. She wants ethical, decent, hard working, moral people on her staff - and, I said I am IN! I told her of my prior social work experience and education, and how I had worked in mental health for a while... and about how I like to and prefer to be able to give something back to society. We had a good conversation, I felt. And I had a good conversation with each person I met along the interview process. All positives. So, I am very happy and thrilled this all came together... finally!

This is so great to hear! Congratulations! I am really happy for you!