sociopathy

The experts of that day had naught but their religious convictions to teach them of the heavenly bodies, until Galileo came along, anyway. Nowadays, we can study such things with advanced instruments and teams of esteemed researchers. There is evidence, a substantial amount, for the proposition that certain structures of the psychopathic brain differ from the norm. I've studied it myself. Until you can construct an alternative hypothesis and provide a substantial amount of evidence for said hypothesis and formally refute the aforementioned theory or find a viable theory, devised and published by esteemed researchers, I have no reason to believe your assumptions. Bridgie, I completely agree. It's an explanation of certain characteristics of psychopathy, but not an excuse for immoral behavior, as psychopaths know what we're doing and we can control our actions. Only when the person in question does not understand the consequence of their actions and/or cannot control their actions are they truly absolved of responsibility.

It's good that today, esteemed researchers are always right, unlike the bad old days.

I don't dispute that some brain structures may be different for "psychopaths" than for "normals". I don't have the knowledge to say for certain yes or no. What I am saying is that the facts of differences which we see now are not proof of how the differences originated. They could be partly inherited, and also due to in-utero influences, early childhood, and so on. I think I have enough experience of my own life, and similar feelings, to believe that some, much, most, all can come from those influences upon what may be a base structure that is different from "normal" in some degree. But "normal" is a range, not one point. The given inheritance is not totally determinative.

That is my thinking, anyway.

Or, of how or if the differences even matter. It's indeterminate, not uncontrollable and
uncontrolled does not mean uncontrollable.

It matters a lot in how one describes the outlook for improvement ("they cannot change") or what therapies (if any) may be recommended.

You believe whole heartedly the above and therefore feel you cannot change.

Lynn got this information from a TV programme. You cannot rely on the TV 'experts.'

You cannot blame psychopathic behaviour on the difference of a brain scan! Behaviour is behaviour. A human being, unless you feel you are some kind of new species?

Which experts? I think you are believing what is easier for you to believe. Change is difficult but possible.

There's documented scientific evidence that shows brain scans of psychopaths are different than quote normal brains.

http://www.enpsychopedia.org/index.p...In_Psychopaths

I never said that. Esteemed researchers are often incorrect in their hypotheses. However, what is written in articles and journals is the result of years of testing and research on a particular hypothesis by people who dedicate their lives to their studies. To even be considered being published in academia, they need a plethora of evidence to back up their concepts, unlike the bad old days when all they needed was a good reputation with whatever hierarchical figure that happened to be running their respective land and proclaimed insight into the heavens. What they did wasn't even science.

Furthermore, in today's age, you need more than a baseless assumption to refute scientific theory. You need evidence, and a lot of it, unlike the bad old days when the Catholic church shot down Copernicus and Galileo's idea of a heliocentric solar system simply because it went against their teachings, despite the fact that a heliocentric solar system is true.

Actually, we are beginning to understand how those differences originated. From the research conducted, genetic influences have been found. However, psychopathic traits can be caused by injury to the pre-frontal cortex or if the conscience is not developed in the early years of childhood, leading some researchers to conceptualize psychopathy to include both primary and secondary subtypes which differ in etiology, the former having genetic influences, the latter being caused by environmental factors...

Telling a psychopath to ignore whatever deviant thoughts cross his or her mind and "behave" as a "normal" human being, including all aspects of interpersonal relationships; i.e., caring, love, compassion... is like telling a person with major depression to ignore whatever sadness and suicidal thoughts they have and pretend to be happy for the sake of everyone else. Can it work? They can sure try. But, as we all know, without proper treatment, therapy, anti-depressants, etc... a depressed person is still depressed, and that sadness is going to rear its ugly head despite the efforts of the individual to hide it, especially if the person in question is triggered. Trigger a psychopath, take away their control, and his or her true behavior is bound to show and wreak all sorts of wonderful havoc.

Hare, Cleckley, Newman, Brown, Stout, Karpman, Mealy, Porter, Babiak, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention myself...

Easier for me? No. You try having absolutely no empathy, an inability to connect with anyone, paranoia, an irresistible desire to destroy all of society, image after image of violence playing through your mind, a core of suppressed rage, a compulsive need to control those around you, a world that loathes what you truly are, and no treatment or help of any kind ... and tell me if ignoring those irresistible urges and refraining from acting on them is easy. That's what I do, and I can say, with complete honesty, that it's an inner battle every waking second that I live, just as battling sadness and suicidal thoughts is for a person with major depression.

If I felt that way (and I do, sometimes) I would attribute the anger to a reaction against the feeling that no one cares enough, no one notices me, no one pays attention, no one is listening... seems not unreasonable to me...

Oh, so you're a psychopath too?

I'm respected and my opinions are heard; that's not an issue. My hatred comes from within.

I don't think I am a psychopath!

It's not "opinions" I was thinking about when referring to people not understanding, or not caring enough to try to understand. It's more emotions and thought processes that they assume they know all about, but don't.

~ Don't poke the bear! ~

I think this has gone off topic. Just a little...

I didn't say 'ignore' your behaviour, it's actually about knowing your behaviour and learning to cope with those emotions. It is possible to learn to change that behaviour with a lot of help and support but if you are in the mindset that a brain scan says you can't change... and you are in the mindset that you will even find whatever you can to not change... It has to start with you!

It seems to me you want to be a psychopath and want to stay that way. Like I said before, change is difficult but it is possible.

Help? Support? Haha, that's a good one. You almost had me going there...

I think you're under the impression that I spend my free time taking whatever I feel like by force, manipulating and deceiving innocent people, and making a game out of law and order; i.e., acting like a psychopath. As much as I would like to, I do not. I may not be the most generous husband and father, but I do behave myself, to an extent. It's no easy task, to say the least. And, at the end of the day, I'm still a psychopath. And I always will be. My true behavior does reveal itself eventually. As far as society is concerned, "acting" like a descent human being isn't enough, and maintaining it forever isn't even possible.

Agreed.

I agree as well.

It feels like the whole topic got flipped and has turned towards opposing Myers views. Well, for one thing, I think everyone should just stop arguing. I can tell you from experience that you wont win and it isnt getting much accomplished besides making more people angry. And on many points I feel he is right. Besides the fact that he is indeed a psychopath and he has experienced these things first hand. And he is a researcher as well..

So I agree with Teddy. I would advise against poking the bear..

Has this turned into a harassment? I personally feel that he is well read in the subject of his DIAGNOSIS,and unlike another member, is not abusive in the forums(no one here....a new member) His thoughts and what he shares and how he chooses to share is eloquent, well spoken and informed.Isn't there a criteria to members to be supportive? Why take over his thread with negativity ? Find a new interest if you don't see eye to eye.I mean your input says more about you than about him at this juncture.Keep posting myers!Some of us listened with pride in all the efforts you expend to overcome despite this,as well as the way you hold your marriage ,work,and job together.Your behavior in chat and forums has always ONLY been supportive and gracious.Many here care for you.~~WO.olf....P.s ....and freak...you have even been rude to Lynn? Honestly Pegs and Pachyderm I am surprised

My comments are supportive, I am trying to help and educate Myers with my expertise in saying that Myers can learn to cope and change the behaviours. There is nothing wrong in me saying that. If someone comes along and says they truly believe X, I'm entitled to come and say that actually it's possible to do y. The information that a brain scan proves a psychopath cannot change is wrong, the brain scans may show differences of course but that does not mean they cannot change their behaviour. I needed to point that out so that Myers has hope and can seek support and help to move forward.

Are differences of opinion or assessment, of what is "fact" and what is not, equal to "harassment"? I submit that they are not and were not intended that way.

I just really have a 'walk a mile in their shoes ' disposition.If one has not been a sociopath...from where can one base there stance.(For instance ...My son is gravely disabled with schizophrenia.Ppl have no idea what all he (my son) is.He isn't simply his diagnosis ).And I just really respect the fact that Myers hasn't laid down and not made an effort to be the best HIM he can be.I mean I am borderline and I hate it deeply.But I haven't been nearly as diligent at understanding the totality of my dx or worked on it enuf.So I applaud him.~~W~~

((((Pachyderm)))) Ty for the grace of an extended hug~W~

I think this post is finished now. we try and be supportive on here, and I see that in this thread, that this happens not to be the case. Let's take a little break on this and realize that even if people direct there negativity towards people with this disorder, there is no need for hate or anything less than positive support.

Excuse me, but expertise in what?

I'm just going to throw my opinion in here to clear up some misconceptions. The brain scans show that psychopaths cannot feel true emotions, not that they can't change their behavior. They can change their behavior, and most of them are very, very good at it. Superficial charm is one of the criteria. But, like Michael said, it doesn't last, especially in close relationships where that mask is put under close scrutiny. They can't change the fact that their behavior isn't sincere. They can't really feel the emotions that go along with that behavior. It's all a facade, and that's one of the reasons why psychopathy is such a stigmatized disorder.

being a great admirer of Mindfulness, one has found that those who have revealed themselves to be psychopathic or sociopathic, are actually much more Mindful than the average bear. they are fearless self examiners, for what ever reason, which one can admire. they are typically polite and have good manners, which i like in a person. if it is a facade, well it's better than some other facades one has seen. here is hoping that we continue to be hospitable and, yes, even entertaining to our interesting friends.

Bump. ???