I don't go out (socially) anymore.

I am trying to determine if I suffer from avoidant personality disorder.

As far back as I can remember, I have been socially inept and avoidant. I think a great part of it is due to my upbringing. I had a mother who raised me to be her caretaker, who told me from a young age that I was born to take care of her and who showed no interest in my personal development. She seems to have done everything in her power to raise me as an adult from the beginning. (Her statements to me have confirmed this.) I was deprived of toys and playmates, and I never learned how to play. (I STILL don't know how to find enjoyment in the company of peers.) I was raised to be obedient; and I was and still am. Socially, I am a dud. I don't smile in social situations and get very stiff and formal. The child (what little of it I can find) inside of me is angry and frustrated and fearful rather than happy.

Romantically I am also stunted. From a young age I was told that love was not important and there was no maternal nuturing. My mother did not believe in hugs and there were none. There was a lot of criticism. Things were said and done with the purpose of changing my personality. I listened to Mom's problems; she did not want to hear mine. I received advice that was in her best interest, e.g., "your problem is that you do not do enough for others." So desperate for parental love, I fell into a game/trap. I kept seeking parental approval that was never given but that continued to feed on my neediness by asking me to take care of them in return for minimal acceptance.

Socially, it seems that I am always fighting myself. The tapes in my head are wrong but they defeat me because I am tired of fighting myself. In short, using cognitive skills challenging these tapes and emotions hasn't worked and has resulted in deepening depression. I don't have parental love and acceptance to fall back on for confidence. There's a pattern of failure after failure. Therapy has been a disaster and I no longer have confidence in it. (I've had many types.) Likewise, meds have not helped much; the side-effects - particularly the sexual ones - impede my progress. I have lost hope. I do laundry on Saturday nights rather than go out. I don't understand nor relate to popular culture. I don't understand love and avoid it at all costs. I am lonely and have no real friends. I need to learn how to play but have no idea how to do it. Any ideas?

Take it one step at a time...do you have any hobbies or something that interests you? Maybe take a one-time class/workshop in something your interested in and see how it goes. It will take some time to unlearn what you were taught so be patient with yourself. I think you are just behaving the way you were "trained" to behave by your mother and the only way to break from the "lessons" stuck in your head would be to actively go against them. Be patient with yourself...it took a long time for you to reach this point so it will not change overnight. I think if you try to be social one baby step at a time you will be able to defeat those negative thought processes. And each success will give you confidence to go on to the next. I know it's tough...hang in there though, okay?

Children's talent to endure stems from their ignorance of alternatives.
~ Maya Angelou

Are you an adult now? If so it's time to do the hard ahead of you without blaming your mom. In fact forgiveness will actually strengthen you. Can you forgive and move forward?

I understand how SSRIs can kill the sex drive but how is this a problem if you don't have any partners now? I mean we may have to make some trade-offs...

Also, there are some women that would find a guy like you very interesting. They could care less about how your plumbing works and would like your passive "trained" nature. You sound young so it's worth experimenting with some alternative styles to see if you find a fit. Companionship of some stripe will relieve a lot of your angst and you may find others with similar stories you can relate too. That might be a happier use of a Saturday night.

Uhappyguy: I believe I am moderately socially avoidant. It does sound like you may be, also. You may have the actual Avoidant Personality Disorder, or you may be somewhere on the spectrum of having some degree of socially avoidant trait.

My real, larger point is that having the trait of being moderately socially avoidant is no small barrier to happiness. Other anxiety issues and other traits can compound the problem to the extent that life can be quite a miserable ordeal.

I think looking at one's upbringing is about the best place to start to get some understanding. What you describe sounds a whole lot worse than what I went through.
I do notice a common experience, in the sense of feeling like a caretaker to a parent.

While my parents were decent people who took an interest in my personal development, something was not exactly normal. Both my parents were somewhat avoidant, themselves, and had needs for friendship that they weren't getting met in healthy ways. My mother seemed to want me to be her best friend. So did my father. This special relationship I had with each of them started well before kindergaten.

I thought I was lucky to have a mother who loved nothing better than to sit at the kitchen table with me for hours, talking and sharing the history of her life. I thought it was a compliment that my father wanted to take me with him just about everywhere he went. He, also loved to tell me the history of his life. I was very sensitive to the needs of my parents and I became very involved in keeping them company and trying to help them to not be lonely.

All this time and attention that I invested in them was that much less time I spent playing with children my own age. I got sort of good at being a child whom adults found very pleasant. Like you, I was an obedient child. Kids my own age, however, found me about as interesting as an old shoe. At the playground, I literally had no idea about how to play with other kids. My hope was that some other kid would ask me to sit down and listen to the story of his or her life. I knew how to do that.

My parents, also, were very non-demonstrative physically. They just were not comfortable with that, except with babies. The parenting style in my house was stern.

I had little involvement with peers in high school. I just focused on my studies. I didn't have one single date while in high school. I was socially inept, I believe, due to lack of social experience (normal to peers my age.) I had no idea who these Rock bands were that everyone talked about.

My current therapist is not a big fan of Cognitive Therapy for people like me. He says it focuses on logical thinking, when that is not the problem.

For me to actually enter into a chat room here at PC was quite a challenge. People were way nicer than I expected. I learned you can talk about your unhappiness, but not all the time. I learned to lighten up.

I think you and I must know something about love, or we wouldn't be yearning to have friendship in our lives. In my case, I tend to be suspicious of the motives of someone who comes on friendly. I know I have often attracted the attention of persons who saw me as a lonesome person who could be used.

We do need to "learn to play," but we must anticipate that some play rough and unfair. Learning to "play" is going to involve some pain. Since I didn't pay those dues on the playground as a kid, I have to pay them now. When someone hurts me, I have to say to myself that I won't die from that. Then I go try to play some more. Even if I can just have a short conversation with someone at my depression support group, I say - hey - that's a little opening up of the suffocating cocoon that I'm in.

Thank you for starting this thread. I would like to see a little more action here on the socially avoidant posting area. Let us not avoid sharing.

Can't Stop Crying - Thanks for your comments. My hobbies have fizzled as I've gotten older. I used to play a lot of tennis and made some friends. But, I've developed chronic elbow and foot injuries and running and jumping are no longer possible on a competitive basis. I've tried swimming (don't like it at all) and will soon try cycling as a new hobby though I can't say I have much enthusiasm for it; it's a hobby by default and is much less social than tennis. I've tried language classes and cooking classes but didn't make any friends even though my skills were decent. I see my MD next week and will request to see a physical therapist about my golfer's elbow condition. I now use the computer mouse with my left hand rather than my right and have re-positioned my keyboard at work so that my right arm is not on my desk as I type. It still has not healed though; lifting weights only seems to re-injure it rather than make it stronger and injury resistant. I continue to walk alot - about 15 miles a week - but my feet cannot take it anymore and I've been in considerable pain. It's a shame because I really like being outdoors. I will have to resort to using an eliptical machine at the gym - so boring; walking to nowhere. I do it all without smiling. In social situations, I have to remind myself to smile. I don't seem to be able to fool anyone. Maybe I don't have a fully formed personality? My inner critical parent is very strong but my efforts to change it have been futile. There's something missing for sure. I've been told to "act as if" but have found it to be useless information - pretending to be someone else makes me feel even more uncomfortable. I can get very panicky in intimate situations which results in poor communication - I can't talk because my mind goes blank or I say the first thing that comes into my head out of desperation; there are so many emotions going at once that I don't know what I'm feeling. I keep trying but I'm running out of ideas. Still, I very much appreciate your support and compassion.

lostmyfuture: You sound like my mother. When I talk of my background, I do so to tell of my life experiences rather than affix blame. I've studied Buddhism and use a lot of compassion towards my mother and the rest of my family. I'm very adult about it. Since my father died young, and all my siblings are younger and mom is basically a child, I'm well acquainted with the role of an adult. I won't date bossy people - why repeat my past? I find some of your comments to be inappropriate.

Thanks, Rose. Yes, I too have had my share of bad experiences socially and at work. I often am slow to recover and have to get over my bitterness. I learned the hard way about how cognitive therapy is not the best treatment for my issues. Not too long ago, I tried a new therapist who told me there was nothing he could do; that I was set in my ways. (I am in my early 50's.) I was intent on trying and found another therapist who said he could help. He insisted that I draw pictures with crayons and said I was suffering from PTSD. I really didn't think he understood me and when I ended it, I noticed a change in that I no longer wanted to go out and meet people because my spirit was broken. Physical problems complicated things. I am feeling a lot of despair lately.

Thanks for your advice on "learning to play." It's very wise. Thanks for teaching me something new. I will try to put it into practice.

What is it with this fixation on "drawing pictures" that has long pervaded the world of Psych Treatment?? I hated art class even in the first grade.

That last therapist you saw might like to get a job in a prison. He could have a ball conducting Art Therapy in a place jam-packed with some of the most enthusiastic drawers he's likely to meet. And there would be no lack of PTSD for him to diagnose.

Seriously, it sounds like he hasn't quite found his niche, and he might actually do some good in that venue. Our national penal system is this country's largest provider of mental health care (and they're always hiring.) Were he to do that, and do his job well, he'ld likely find himself among some of the most grateful clients he could treat. Then again, if his style is to "insist" - he'ld have to tweak that a bit.

Bad therapy is worse than no therapy. Why? Because, when it comes to breaking a person's spirit, there is nobody more in the catbird seat than an insensitive/arrogant psych clinician. (Who, by the way, does NOT deserve to succeed.)

ok, so i am trying to use my words right since i have a hard time with them. personally me, i have social phobia and recovering agoraphobic, i do not understand people and the world , but finding someone similair to me has helped me a lot.
(very brief summary of me without getting too indepth)

ok on to relation, my mother was very similiar to you, she didn't understand people, she couldn't (no just didn't want to) she couldn't have fun because she didn't know how to go about it. the emotion just wasn't there. it wasn't taught to her.
she saw compassion but it was hard for her to show it, work is what she knew and did, everything else was errelavant.
growing up her parent spair her no mind, she was a girl, useless, unlike her brothers. girls were only good for making babies and that was it, as well seen but not heard.

it wasn't until her late 40's that she found a "play mate" it took so much heartache to get there but she found someone soooooo unlike her and they did stuff she would NEVER do. it didn't last long, but i do believe it last an impression. than after that she found someone else who drew her in to this whole other culture and she saw and experienced things i had already in the first 13 years of my life! (a lot more to her story but it only dwells on the mistreatment of her past and i don't want to dwell especially since she has passed)

guess what i'm trying to say is i hear your struggles and frustration in your post, and there might be a lot more to come before things get better, things can fall into place, i don't know when, or how, but if they did for one person it could for another.

sorry if it's not the best advice ever i'm only good with examples and relation when it comes to people.

thanks for the posts - they are much appreciated. my serious nature always seems to undermine things. i will take a game and become a student of it, pushing myself to improve and to learn, learn, learn and, if not master then, at least, employ the different techniques and strategies. sometimes, i learn so much that all the info is overkill and i burn myself out or the enjoyment goes out of it. it's a pattern. part of it may be insecurity that i'm never good enough or am personally deficient, so i try too hard. or, i use all the learning as a distraction to my flaws/weaknesses. a lot of people seem to just enjoy hanging out but i've never enjoyed it much.

i did manage to practice tennis today. i have a long way to go before i step on a court. i rested my problem arm all week and used a new arm brace that keeps the muscles and tendons warm and that restricts movement. it worked! and, i wore high-top basketball sneakers that hold my narrow feet in place, protecting my torn tendon. my new practice racquet lacks power but it's forgiving and is easy on my arm. weather permitting, i will hit the ball against the wall again tomorrow. i need to re-learn to move my feet, to change grips and to hit with spin with margin for error over the net. i don't know how long before i'm ready to step on a court but today felt really positive.

as far as meeting someone well, i really don't know what i'm doing or what to look for. i seem to attract disfunctional people. i don't expect others to be perfect but, if there's some give and take then i'm okay with that. if "friends" become manipulative then i will usually end the friendship. my lack of knowing how to have fun is a big turnoff to others. it seems that i don't know how to be anything other than serious. it's a quandry.

it's hopeful to hear that your mother was able to meet others who helped her to enjoy life. i am on vacation this week but am not going anywhere. i need to put my home in order (spring housecleaning!) it may sound mundane but it's a weakness of mine and will be a real accomplishment if i can do it. thanks for listening.

I wish I could offer some answers, but at least I can relate to how you feel. I would read a How to Live for Dumbies book if there was one. ADHD seems to go hand-in-hand with my AVPD and ADHD medication has helped me socially to the extent that I'm capable of typing this very post as insignificant as it may be.

People are complicated and frustrating. I prefer the company of animals and maybe a pet could help you attract more desirable people if not just keep your company.

It sounds like you have too little social experience, good or bad. Do you work? Do you have any interests? You need to start gaining experience with others, wherever you come in contact.

hi, perna. yes, i work full-time. i've changed jobs a lot but am basically a good employee. i've been in my current job for almost 1.5 years. i get along with my bosses and co-workers fairly well though i don't socialize with them.

since i was forced to give up tennis due to foot and arm injuries, i have struggled to find new interests. i took up walking but foot pain has recently forced me to cut way back. i just bought a bicycle but it's intended just for the local bike path; i have no interest in going on long rides. i've tried swimming but don't enjoy it at all. my foot and arm injuries (tendon tears) prohibit me from running and jumping so team sports like volleyball and bowling are out. i am considering becoming a gym rat (genetic dispositions require that i exercise almost daily or face heart disease and/or diabetes; i can use the elliptical machine); the drawback is that i much, much prefer to be outdoors. if my arm heals, i could add weight training. unfortunately, the torn tendon in my foot will not heal and surgery is very risky and not advised.

on weekends, i usher at functions for a dance arts group. i enjoy it a lot though most people there are a lot younger; it's hard to meet people who are my age and have this interest.

I don't have any brilliant advice, but I do understand those feelings too well.

VERY helpful! Very healthy! Thank you for this most-thoughtful post. I am JUST beginning to see that I won't die from others' rough remarks. It's a discipline that I have to apply to my thinking, but it seems to be working (miraculous). I was afraid to even LOOK at these forums for shame about admitting to this issue (I REALLY don't like the term "disorder" and am waiting for the psych community to start using another term - ha ha) but reading Unhappyguy's post (thank you, Unhappyguy, for your honesty and willingness to risk what you did by writing - amazing and wonderful - I hope it's helping you to have gotten it out of your system to some extent) and yours, Rose, have helped me to feel so much lighter and happier and safer about it all. wow.

GOD LOVE YOU, Unhappyguy (I'm really starting to like you as a person ((I don't engage in romance any more)). I was relieved and inspired to see that you defended yourself, and articulated it so well. I do think it's difficult to find people who are cordial AND moral AND interesting, and those are the bottom line characteristics that I can't forgo in a relationship (so I'm stuck with some label like this!) - but I think it's very easy for people with high standards to end up feeling we report feeling here. In any event, Rose's advice seems to be very solid - I can start to see how - well, I guess I'm realizing as I'm writing that - it seems to be a "sorting" process, in my experience. I went clothes shopping the other day at sort of an upscale consignment shop - I've developed a way of shopping over the years that works for me and I don't question it. First of all, it's humiliating enough to have to shop there, but it's also in an area of town that's very provincial, and all the women know one another, thery'e EXTREMELY conventional in their lifestyle and mindsets, and they're bored, basically - so they notice everything another person does that's different in any way - and it all blurts out of their mouths and they don't see anything wrong with that happening - I really am convinced that they don't mean anything hurtful by it (it still hurts!). So they didn't say hello when I walked in, and they all talked and talked and kept walking past me and after about 15 minutes they still hadn't acknowledged me as a customer, and I actually felt shunned, but knew enough about the store and the neighborhood that I knew they weren't being mean - just clueless. So I gathered up a big cart of clothes that I try on really fast and I hang them all up when I'm done so as not to inconvenience anyone, and I put them all back nicely on the rack and I'm kind and friendly (when it's really THEIR job to be kind and friendly) so that I'm pretty much triple checked in terms of my own conscience, and I can shop without worrying if I'm doing something inappropriate. So I go to the dressing room, and this woman just runs up to me and said: "Well you have to at least wait for me to give you a number. You can't go in there without a number!" and I looked at her and I said: "Do I look like a person who is going to steal?" and she said: "Oh, they just make us give you numbers" and I realized that she's a volunteer (the place gives scholarships to kids from the profit they make) and she just is no expert at customer service. We talked at length about customer service, and she ended up being very helpful and we ended up having a very nice exchange. So I came back a little later and another volunteer said: "OH - YOU'RE THE ONE WITH THE ENORMOUS CART" and I wanted to slap the **** out of her, but I turned on my disciplined thinking, and I said: "Yep - it's the shopping-method I've developed in my old age" and she just couldn't let it go - she had to be sure that I felt criticized - and it's CLEAR to me from listening to people in 12 step meetings that it's just some knee-jerk thing women do - it's been passed on to them thru generations, and they've never stopped to realize it's inappropriate, much less have they bothered to work it out of their behavioral lexicon. So she says: "I'm just really curious - are you shopping for yourself or for a store or something?" I jsut said kindly to her: "Can you see that i'm working very hard here?" and she was very very nice after that. I walked out with $81 worth of clothes - and I was very careful to listen to the total of the women who checked out before me - $200, $120 - and the woman who checked me out said: "You really did get some beautiful stuff". They always say that when I check out - I go about three times a year and I get a bunch of beautiful things for really cheap, and everyone is quietly amazed and probably jealous - but if they would get over their OWN fears and ASK me = I'd be happy to tell them all about the process I use to shop for clothes that took me many years to develop. I'm really beginning to see that relating is all in one's perspective - i can turn the situation around and see that it's really - and it TRULY is - it's not just me fantasizing in my mind by turning the tables - it's almost always that people don't have the social skills to have the slightest clue how hurtful or stupid (sorry - that's mean - but I gotta say it) they are. it's not that I'm inadequate in any way - but it took me DECADES to realize this!

OHMIGOSH - I LOVE what you guys are saying - I just love everything you're saying!!!!!!!

Racee - your words are perfect! Just READING this stuff is helping me so much - and the explanation you've given about how our social skills are generational - is really instructional for me. I realized when I was reading your post the extent to which my parents influenced me (and I didn't want to accept their influences when I was living with them - I was VERY good at differentiating because they were right there for me to see all the time - and SO unhealthy - it was very clear to me that I should go out and live my life differently - and I wasn't as sensitive when I was young - and I had a ****-TON of fun and adventure, actually. But I'm 50 now, so I think I've sunk into this state of modeling after them quietly - without even realizing it. And I see the affect that could have on my daughter. WOW - I feel GREAT right now. Group-therapy (or anything like it) has ALWAYS been so helpful for me. Hope I'm helping you guys too!

Silverbells - I'm gratified that you found something helpful in my reply. Thanks for the affirmation. I was interested in your story about the woman who ran up to give you a number. After finding her irritating, you ended up liking her. That has happened to me a LOT! (Well, I am kind of an irritable person.) It has sometimes been the case that a person whom I really couldn't stand when I first encountered them ended up being a person I liked enormously.

Also, I liked your concept of applying "discipline" to your thinking. I think that's a great word to use. I hadn't thought of it quite that way, but now I will. After all, who ever has much success at anything in this life without learning to be disciplined . . . whether it's as an athlete, or as a creative artist, or as anything you care to name?

This has been an interesting thread. Re-visiting it today, I've learned more.