[vacantangel]

I'm so sick of all these cycle changes. A week ago Thursday I was extremely depressed and suicidal. The next day the suicidal urges were gone but left me with the severe depression. That lasted a week, then last Friday it changes to extreme rapid-cycling, leaving me not knowing from one minute to the next where I was. Today I actually started to feel good. I knew I shouldn't have trusted that would last. I read an e-mail from my sister about 1/2 hr ago. When I was going through the rapid cycling, I sent an e-mail to all my family instructing them to not phone me and that I wouldn't answer the phone. I just couldn't deal with anything other than trying to find some way controlling the roller coaster of mood changes several times a day, sometimes only minutes before the shift to the opposite end of the spectrum would take place.

Anyway, back to the e-mail. My sister forwards to me, an e-mail that she sent to my brother who had previously e-mailed her wanting to know what was going on with me. She explained rapid cycling to him as best as she could. WTF??? Can my brother not e-mail me himself and ask me??? First my brother won't talk with me on the phone, now he won't e-mail me? Am I not to have a relationship with my brother anymore because he doesn't know anything about BP and is afraid of me? For God's sake, I don't f'ing bite!!! WTF is he so afraid of?

So much for feeling good.

[TgrsPurr]

Okay AG, deep breath in, now exhale. Deep breath in, now exhale. Good.

Next, regarding the severity of your cycling...you need a med check. Something ain't right. I remember in the past that you mentioned there are certain drugs you won't try because of the possibilty of weight gain. Well, it might be time to put your pride or sense of selg-image aside and be willing to try other avenues. Eventually the body will adjust if the med is right for you and become more stable. Then in your stability you can focus on such things as eating right, exercising, drinking at least 64oz of water everyday, meditation, etc...
Would you at least be willing to consider being more leaniant (sp?)? Talk to your pdoc. A few extra pounds is worth some sanity, don't you think?
About your brother, when you aren't quite so angry with him, send him an e-mail explaining things in your own words. Let him know that you are willing to be open with him about your illness, that you would like his support. Tell him all that you do to try to deal with this illness, let him know how difficult it can be, but there is treatment.
You must remember AG, to ppl who don't KNOW bp, it's extremely confusing and hardest on the ppl around that bp person. Cut him some slack. At least he was asking about you, that shows concern and wanting to understand. Give him credit where credit is due. Don't shut your family out AG, they are a big part of your support system, a big part of your life. Don't push them away. Forgive them their ignorance, how are they suppose to know? And when it's time to hunker down, and that's okay, let them know nicely why you need some space and time.
You can do this AG, you're tougher than you think. You just need to cut yourself some slack. I think we all need to. We are our own worst enemy. I say we all should do something about that. Don't ya think?
TgrsPurr.

[nothemama8]

Possibley the attitude your having right now is his fear

[vacantangel]

There is a lot of history between my brother and myself that brings on that attitude. He violated me last year.

[vacantangel]

Oh sweetie, we don't even want to go into a discussion about my meds. I know they're not right. Been down this road with my pdoc several times. We've even got to the point that we argued in one appt. I can't do that again cuz I can't afford for her to fire me. Things are not the same here as they are in the US. I'm stuck with her, believe me, I've tried to change. There's a *system* here that you can't get around, believe me, I've tried until it just about killed me. My pdoc is not listening to me or budging on my meds at all. I don't know what else I can do. I am eating properly, I know I need to start exercising even though I HATE it.

I will send an email to my brother. I already thought about that. He won't reply it though, he never does, not since last year. Things have never been the same since then.

[Overcastbutclearing]

Hang in there AG! Maybe because you didn't want any phone calls etc he felt like emailing you was out too.
He possibly may be trying to respect your wishes of not contacting you and emailed your sister to just check up on you.
Are you dealing with the fact that your brother violated you? ((((AngelGirl))))

[vacantangel]

You could be right as to that being the reason he didn't e-mail me. Could it be that I jumped to conclusions? I hate when people do that to me so I need to stop doing it myself. Conclusions we jump to are rarely ever right.

Yes, I've dealt with him violating me in therapy last year but he still shys away from me ever since then. He's still my brother.

[Overcastbutclearing]

Glad you are dealing with your trauma.
And I am glad you thought about what I said with the communication lines that you yourself cut off for the night.
You hang in there dear friend.
Hugs all around!

[vacantangel]

Thanks sj. You are wonderfully supportive, even when you are going through your own troubled times. Are you feeling better now than you were earlier today when we spoke?

I didn't have my own therapist at the time I dealt with this trauma but I was fortunate to be in a group therapy and the therapist who led the group took me on individually as he could see I was very troubled at the time. I'm forever grateful that he took time out for me and gave me individual therapy outside of the group setting.

[darkeyes]

AG, weight issue, I can relate to this when first being tried on different mood stabilizers ans anti-depressants, I first rejected the whole thing with my pdoc on my very first visit to a pdoc, she said then there is not much more we can do if you do not wish to comply, you put yourself at risk of getting worse, and not everyone gains that much weight.
The main thing stressed is the weight you can lose, takes work and all, but is easier than watching you lose yourself, your mind due to a vanity issue.
You should have seen me when first starting treatment, I was not an easy one to convince, quite a challenge for pdoc and therapist, I finally gave in and started med treatment as I was feeling worse and worse.
When most of us start med treatment, we may experience unpleasant feelings, some of may not, if you are having any side effects when starting out, always keep under pdoc's s supervision in case a change is needed.
I just wish they would have meds that have the side effect of weight loss, some do, but I never have been lucky to those prescribed to me.
Lamictal has not caused me any weight gain, first mood stabilizer that hasn't. . . yay!
Okay, sorry I got carried away, my main point is, please do not let weight gain keep you from working with your pdoc and meds. The reply TgrsPurr gave you is a great idea.
Please take care now.

DE

[vacantangel]

darkeyes, thanks for your reply and your concern. Maybe I should've been more explicit in my reply to TgrsPurr.

I have tried practically every med out there, to the point that we're running out of meds to try for the rapid cycling and as far as my scary deep depression that leaves me the door of suicide, she will NOT give me anything more than I already have. I've tried to explain how bad my depression gets but she doesn't listen. She wants me to control my depressive cycle on my own, to which I try but don't have much success with at all.

Anyway, this is my current list of meds: Tegretol, Effexor XR, Wellbutrin, Klonopin and Xanax.

I have already tried and ruled out: Lithium, Depakote, Lamictal, Topomax, Celexa, Risperdal

I just don't know that meds do much for me other than the Xanax. I've often considered going med-free but that has been shot down very quickly by both my pdoc and t. As bad as my cycles are now, they were FAR worse before I was on any mood stabilizer, so they are probably right in saying that med-free would not be right for me.

What I would like is an increase in my ADs but it is falling on deaf ears, even though I have asked for months and told her that I'm often suicidal.

So, I'm left with trying to talk myself out of the depression or at least trying to control the intensity of the cycle.

[TgrsPurr]

How about Seroquel?

[nothemama8]

Yeah seroquel worked good for me, am on wellbutrin SR now
Angie

[vacantangel]

Oh sorry!!! I draw the line with Seroquel. We've (my pdoc and I) have already discussed that med a long time ago. It's one of the meds with the most potential for weight gain. Besides is it not for the hypomania end of things? I need something for the depression end.

[Dolfin]

AG,

Here's my current drug cocktail: Lithium, Seroquel, and Klonopin

Past strike-outs: Topamax, Paxil CR, Lexapro, Celexa, Effexor, Strattera, Prozac Zyprexa (although it WAS working for me, I got my pdoc switched and he took me off it) Xanax (also working, but was given Klonopin to manage Panic Disorder)

I am on Seroquel, as a sedative because I tend to me hypomanic/manic. It has helped with my rapid cycling as well, although I know it's getting titrated in a few days. And as far as the panic disorder, I no longer have a "safety net" with the Xanax (because Klonopin takes forever to kick in).

You know I've been in a funk for a few days now, and I don't usually let things get to me like they have, but I've been thrown some pretty harsh blows. I don’t even want to think of what it would be like without the Seroquel (I'd probably spend every waking moment in bed).

Seroquel may help with your rapid cycling, and I think you are perfectly right when you tell your doc you'd like you AD's increased because of your suicidal intentions. You deserve to have the care you want, and it sounds as if they are trying to keep you just on the brink of the abyss by denying you a dosage increase.

As far as the weight issue: I've been taking the Seroquel for almost 6 weeks, and haven't gained any weight because of it (in fact, I’ve been steadily losing weight for the last couple of months, possibly from coming off Topamax & Paxil CR). I hope you'll at least reconsider Seroquel, as it has helped me immensely.

Another option, to help with the rapid cycling is Zyprexa. Yes, its indications are an anti psychotic, but it calmed my cycling quite a bit, and my mania was less severe.

I hope some of this was of help to ya.

********AngelGirl********

Much Love,
Jenn

[vacantangel]

Jenn, I'm sorry life has not been too kind to you of late. Seems most of us have been through a pretty substantial list of med trials and failures. I still don't want to take Seroquel because I think it will only help with the hypomanic end of things and maybe the rapid-cycling. I don't want anything more to steal away my hypomania. Gosh, that's the only time I have the least bit of *happiness* in my life and I don't want it dulled any more than it already is.

What I want is a substantial increase in my ADs. I feel my pdoc is playing Russian Roulette with my life. I've even told her that. I've expressed my concerns also with my t and my GP, all 3 of them are on the same page of thinking my AD dosages are already high enough. They feel that I should be able to control my moods and that I don't work on doing that. I can rechannel by watching a DVD, going for a walk, visiting someone etc, but as soon as I finish with whatever diversion I chose, I'm right back where I started from. The mood is still there, it's still the same intensity, it was just waylayed. I've had sometimes when I'll be out and about doing something during one of my extremely low depressive moods and I can't wait to get home because I'm becoming seriously unglued in public. I've yet to find a way to stop my depression in it's tracks and end it or to control the depths to which it will go, other than to force myself to sleep it off, which my t is not in favour of either. She wants me to find some *positive* means of controling it. I find myself at the door of suicide so many times and I'm scared that one of these times will be the last time.

[darkeyes]

AG,
I'm not familiar with you that much, but it sounds like it may be time to seek another pdoc, it is so frustrating when a pdoc refuses to listen to their client.
Believe me, I am on the verge of seeking a new one myself, because he refuses to address my ADD, and only stays on the Bipolar end of things.
When I lived in another state, before moving, my pdoc there said that first she wanted to address the Bipolar, and then once I was "episode" free, we would move onto meds for my ADD.
Well, this new one, is good but so over conservative in his ways.
AG, I understand your frustration, I feel for you, but do not give up, see if you can get a new pdoc, even tell your present one, if she or he can't help you, that it is time you move on to a new one that is willing to take the time to work with you.
My main point is do not give up hope, so often the "impossible" can become the "possible".

Please take care now,

Sincerely,
DE

[vacantangel]

DE, I'm sorry that you too are not being listened to by your pdoc. It's so frustrating.

I've tried changing pdocs. I don't live in the US so I guess things work differently here. They have a *system* that you can not get around. Believe me, I have tried and tried until it almost killed me, pardon the pun. It is so damn frustrating. First problem is that you must go to a pdoc that works out of the hospital closest to where you live. Another problem is they don't like you 'doctor shopping'. Once you've been to one and left for whatever reason, the next one is more leary about taking you on. I'm already on the 2nd one in my area. The 3rd problem is there is an extreme shortage of doctors here because they are paid by the government and our government doesn't pay them as much as they would like, so they get their training here and then high-tail it across the border and practice in the US. I've approached my t on my situation. She works in an office, affiliated with the hospital, that contains several therapists and pdocs. I used to go to one from that office before but we parted ways on not so good terms. The pdoc I currently go to and have been for about 2 yrs now, works out of the same hospital but has her own private office. Anyway, when talking with my t, I explained my situation and gave her a list of my meds with each of their dosages. My dosage level on my Effexor XR is substantially higher than what most ppl need BUT at the same time quite a bit lower than what it used to be before. However; I have had a 2nd AD introduced, Wellbutrin SR but at a low dosage. I've been on Effexor XR for 4 years. Initially it worked great once up to a substantially high dose and my suicidal ideation and urges disappeared. Unfortunately, they are back with a vengenance now and have been for several months. I'm not sure if that means that the ADs are not working as well, need to be increased or my BP is worsening. Maybe all of the above? When I gave my med list to my t, she was surprised at the dosage of Effexor XR I was taking and promptly said that nobody takes that much, btw, I take 225mg/day. I know that is a high amount and that many ppl can get along on 75mg/daily but we are all different to how we react to different meds. I also know from a previous board that I frequented that there were some ppl there who were taking more than 400mg/day, albeit if few. Anyway, she said that any of the pdocs in that office would take all my meds and slice the dosages in 1/2 of each one of them. Well, that certainly isn't going to help me. She did say she would talk to my old pdoc and see if he would take me back. I have a t appt today and I'll ask her if she has talked with him. As I said, we did not part on good terms but when I saw him, I was taking 375mg/daily of my Effexor XR, so I know he wouldn't have a problem with increasing it. But at the time I saw him, I was not taking Wellbutrin, so maybe that might influence his decision, should he be willing to pick me back up as a patient.

Also, as I said, my pdoc, t and GP want me to control my depression on my own and all feel that I should be able to do that. I've yet to be successful, unless to force myself to sleep off the entire depressive cycle each time that hits, which is extremely frequently. My t is not happy with that method, she would like me to find something positive to control my depression. I don't know, maybe I should be able to control my depression and I'm not doing a good enough job of trying to. That's what they all think. I'm at a loss. Unless I can find a way to control the depression on my own, we're playing Russian Roulette and one of these times I'm going to lose, I know that. It's just a matter of time.

[darkeyes]

Oh man, that really sucks, that your government more or less calls all the shots with the docs,pdocs, etc.
I didn't know you did not live here, hadn't read all posts.
I really can feel your frustration, and I am sending you some (((((((((((( Angel ))))))))))))

From being on SSRI's for a length of time, they tend to poop out, so that is why my doc started me with the Lsmictsl, though it is not an AD, it helps like one while at the same time it is still a mood stabilizer.
I'm sorry that the Lamictal didn't help you, I think you mentioned that was one you had tried.
Well, I'll keep you in my thoughts and I am sending you good wishes for a positive path to be found.

Sincerely,
DE

[(JD)]

Replying to your first post, I can imagine how this feels! Perhaps your brother feels so ignorant about what is going on with you, that he is too afraid that he might make you worse if he asks all the questions he surely must have? That he is asking, though, is a good thing. I think the future holds promise for a great understanding brother! feel better.

[darkeyes]

Sky, I think you meant your reply to the original poster?
You may have clicked on my last reply.
No big deal, but what you mentioned doesn't pertain to me.
Thanks for replying anyway, it is nice when posters get replies

Take care,

DE

[vacantangel]

DE, yes the system does suck here. Thanks for the good wishes and hugs. Much appreciated.

(((((((((((((( DE )))))))))))))

[jmo531]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((AG))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[vacantangel]

Hi sky. My brother doesn't live near me so he doesn't see what I go through on a daily basis with my cycle changes and the effect they have on me. He also doesn't know anything about BP. I think it is the 'unknown' that he is afraid of and as I said in a previous post in this thread, we had a MAJOR falling out last year after he violated me. We didn't speak for several months. It's been since that situation that he has been shunning me. That was his first taste of a BP reaction that he has ever seen from me. I guess he was quite shocked because he is not used to me being BP, it only surfaced 5 years ago and as I said he doesn't live near me. We have seen each other in that 5 years but I guess anytime he saw me my cycles were such that I was 'ok', meaning not depressed or hypomanic at the time. I think the disorder scares him. My sister has been trying to educate him as he won't talk with me anymore because he's afraid of what kind of a reaction he might get. I get along with the rest of my family that lives near me with no problem. My mother is really ill now and she has moved in with my brother so now he is getting more exposure to me because my mom and I talk very frequently. I'm just not the sister that he is used to having. I've changed and I guess the change is hard for him to adjust to because he doesn't understand it.

I said I was going to send him an email and try to enlighten him on BP but to be honest it slipped my mind. Memory sure ain't what it used to be. I'll have to make a point of doing that and maybe we can have a better relationship again.

I'm not sure if he thinks he might make me worse, I guess there is definitely that possibility because he sure set me off last year and I guess he's afraid that might happen again.

Yes, it is good that he is asking questions to try to understand. I would prefer that he would ask me directly but maybe I should just be thankful that he cares enough about me that he's at least asking somebody.

[vacantangel]

Hey Jen, my sweet friend. I don't think I've ever seen you down in this forum. Nice of you to come and visit me.

Thanks for the hugs!!! (((((((((((( Jen ))))))))))))