[moremi]

I just got back from visiting my bother in Cocoa Beach. He is also bipolar. He was trying to educate me more on the diet side of treatment. He said he has been a vegan for two years now and is medication free and very rarely shows any bp symptoms. My brother was seriously ill with bp all the time until he went without medicatons and started this vegan diet.

Has anyone else ever heard of this helping people, or is this maybe mind over matter? I am seriously considering this now. I have been reducing my meds for a long while now. Off seroquel completely almost off tegretol. Slightly manic lately but no psychosis or hallucinations. Next I will go off the zoloft and abilify. I have recently started fish oil and omega 3.

I really am interested in the vegan diet idea and anything you may have heard or seen about it.

[SeekerofLight]

I was a vegetarian for about 10 years until I got pregnant and my ob made me go back to eating meat. I can tell you that when I was a vegetarian, I felt fantastic! I have to wonder also if too much meat protein affects us negatively? I've recently began cutting out meat again and am slowly feeling a little better. I also take an EFA supplement which is supposed to be wonderful for moods. Do a little experimenting and see how you feel.

[bipolarmedstudent]

Has he made other lifestyle changes at the same time as the diet change? Like stopped drinking/smoking/drugs? Good sleep hygeine? Low stress lifestyle? Yoga? Exercise?

I'm asking because it could be these other things (especially exercise, low stress, good sleep, and no alcohol/drugs) that could be the real key to his success. Generally when people become vegan, they make a whole host of other lifestyle changes at the same time. They just start living healthier over-all and become very conscious of what they put in their body.

So, I'm not convinced that going vegan will help with bipolar. But changing your entire life around so that you are eating right, exercising, sleeping right, and minimizing stress? Absolutely, that can have a HUGE effect.

Unforuntanetely, many people with mental illness don't have the motivation/energy to make any of these changes without being on meds. But if you can muster the motivation to eat right and exercise without being on meds, and if you can sleep 8 hours every night without meds....then by all means do it. I don't doubt you will notice a huge improvement in your moods.

One more thing...please make sure you discontue the zoloft first, and then the abilify. You don't want to be on Zoloft unapposed....it could send you completely manic in a very bad way.

[BuggsBunny]

I don't know about the vegan/lifestyle thing, but I'm trying to reduce my meds, too. My pdoc yesterday suggested an OTC called SAMe. Says it has natural antidepressant effects and has proven to be far more effective than St John's Wort. It's shown well in clinical studies/human trials, etc. So it might be something to think about for a mood lift if you do need one off meds. It has none of the stuff in it that SJWort had.

[moremi]

Originally Posted by BuggsBunny

I don't know about the vegan/lifestyle thing, but I'm trying to reduce my meds, too. My pdoc yesterday suggested an OTC called SAMe. Says it has natural antidepressant effects and has proven to be far more effective than St John's Wort. It's shown well in clinical studies/human trials, etc. So it might be something to think about for a mood lift if you do need one off meds. It has none of the stuff in it that SJWort had.

Where did you get this? I am looking to go off the meds all together and go the natual way. I dont know if the vegan lifestyle is for me or not. I may try not sure if I can commit to that yet.

[moremi]

Originally Posted by SeekerofLight

I was a vegetarian for about 10 years until I got pregnant and my ob made me go back to eating meat. I can tell you that when I was a vegetarian, I felt fantastic! I have to wonder also if too much meat protein affects us negatively? I've recently began cutting out meat again and am slowly feeling a little better. I also take an EFA supplement which is supposed to be wonderful for moods. Do a little experimenting and see how you feel.

Where did you get your efa supplement from?

[moremi]

Originally Posted by bipolarmedstudent

Has he made other lifestyle changes at the same time as the diet change? Like stopped drinking/smoking/drugs? Good sleep hygeine? Low stress lifestyle? Yoga? Exercise?

I'm asking because it could be these other things (especially exercise, low stress, good sleep, and no alcohol/drugs) that could be the real key to his success. Generally when people become vegan, they make a whole host of other lifestyle changes at the same time. They just start living healthier over-all and become very conscious of what they put in their body.

So, I'm not convinced that going vegan will help with bipolar. But changing your entire life around so that you are eating right, exercising, sleeping right, and minimizing stress? Absolutely, that can have a HUGE effect.

Unforuntanetely, many people with mental illness don't have the motivation/energy to make any of these changes without being on meds. But if you can muster the motivation to eat right and exercise without being on meds, and if you can sleep 8 hours every night without meds....then by all means do it. I don't doubt you will notice a huge improvement in your moods.

One more thing...please make sure you discontue the zoloft first, and then the abilify. You don't want to be on Zoloft unapposed....it could send you completely manic in a very bad way.

Okay I will. Thank you for that:

[hamster-bamster]

It could be that high fiber --> slow digestion --> no sugar spikes --> fewer intraday ups and downs. And if that is the case, you can attain it by simply eating high fiber diet, without actually eliminating dairy or meat.

[BipolaRNurse]

I'm exactly the opposite. The more carbs I eat, the worse I feel, so I try to stick with the high-protein, low-carb way of eating. It also helps regulate my blood sugar (I'm a diabetic) which has an amazing effect on mood, at least for me.

We all have different bodies, different ways of processing things. Everybody has to do what works for them.

[moremi]

Originally Posted by bipolarmedstudent

Has he made other lifestyle changes at the same time as the diet change? Like stopped drinking/smoking/drugs? Good sleep hygeine? Low stress lifestyle? Yoga? Exercise?

I'm asking because it could be these other things (especially exercise, low stress, good sleep, and no alcohol/drugs) that could be the real key to his success. Generally when people become vegan, they make a whole host of other lifestyle changes at the same time. They just start living healthier over-all and become very conscious of what they put in their body.

So, I'm not convinced that going vegan will help with bipolar. But changing your entire life around so that you are eating right, exercising, sleeping right, and minimizing stress? Absolutely, that can have a HUGE effect.

Unforuntanetely, many people with mental illness don't have the motivation/energy to make any of these changes without being on meds. But if you can muster the motivation to eat right and exercise without being on meds, and if you can sleep 8 hours every night without meds....then by all means do it. I don't doubt you will notice a huge improvement in your moods.

One more thing...please make sure you discontue the zoloft first, and then the abilify. You don't want to be on Zoloft unapposed....it could send you completely manic in a very bad way.

Sorry should have answered this earlier. He has not had anymore changes to his life. He works full time and really doesnt exercise much, except for daily schedule work and store and etc.....

He tells me his sleep came better with the diet,f He used to be up all the time like me. Not sure maybe worth a try. I just do not know if I have enough self discipline for this way of life.

[into-the-night]

I think I heard a similar idea in Stephen Fry: The Secret Life of the Manic Depressive... Also, there has been some research on how a diet can affect one's moods, so I suppose it can be true.

I personally think that exercising is a good way of staying (relatively) stable, but I suppose it depends very much on the person.

[bipolarmedstudent]

Originally Posted by BuggsBunny

I don't know about the vegan/lifestyle thing, but I'm trying to reduce my meds, too. My pdoc yesterday suggested an OTC called SAMe. Says it has natural antidepressant effects and has proven to be far more effective than St John's Wort. It's shown well in clinical studies/human trials, etc. So it might be something to think about for a mood lift if you do need one off meds. It has none of the stuff in it that SJWort had.

I don't really get the point of going off prescription meds only to go on herbal meds? Herbal meds are meds too. They have side effects, risks, etc. Given that most of our prescription meds are derived from plant sources anyway, I don't see a real distinction between herbal meds and prescription meds, except that with prescription meds at least the quality control is more reliable. How is SAMe (a processed herbal supplement) any different from a prescription drug (which is probably a synthetic version of some compound found in a plant anyway)? Both are processed, after all.

[bipolarmedstudent]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

It could be that high fiber --> slow digestion --> no sugar spikes --> fewer intraday ups and downs. And if that is the case, you can attain it by simply eating high fiber diet, without actually eliminating dairy or meat.

Yeah. This is what I was thinking as well. High fiber, high protein foods. Cut out sugar and sugar-substitutes (like aspartame). Cut out simple carbs. Eat lots of fresh fish and nuts and plenty of leafy green vegetables. Switch to cooking with safflower oil. Cut out caffeine, cigarettes, and alcohol.

Look up 'mediterreanian diet' or 'south beach diet' for ideas.

Eat like that and I can almost guarantee you will notice an improvement in your mood and energy levels. Also your waist size, most likely.

[roads]

moremi, I've been a vegetarian (tho not vegan) for nearly forty yrs. I've no idea whether that has anything to do with my being able to go so long in life without a crisis leading to diagnosis as bipolar. Or to my being BP2 rather than 1. Or whether it matters at all...

Roadie

[bipolarmedstudent]

Originally Posted by moremi

Sorry should have answered this earlier. He has not had anymore changes to his life. He works full time and really doesnt exercise much, except for daily schedule work and store and etc.....

He tells me his sleep came better with the diet,f He used to be up all the time like me. Not sure maybe worth a try. I just do not know if I have enough self discipline for this way of life.

It is probably the sleep that is the major difference for him. It's well known that lack of sleep makes bipolar worse, and can trigger manic symptoms...which makes you sleep even less...which triggers more mania. It's a vicious cycle.

If I were you, I would start by trying to get your sleep cycle balanced and normal. Your lack of sleep is probably the biggest thing that is destabilizing you right now. Get that fixed, and you will feel so much better. Then you will have the energy and motivation to fix other stuff, like your diet. But first -- the sleep!

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by bipolarmedstudent

Yeah. This is what I was thinking as well. High fiber, high protein foods. Cut out sugar and sugar-substitutes (like aspartame). Cut out simple carbs. Eat lots of fresh fish and nuts and plenty of leafy green vegetables. Switch to cooking with safflower oil. Cut out caffeine, cigarettes, and alcohol.

Look up 'mediterreanian diet' or 'south beach diet' for ideas.

Eat like that and I can almost guarantee you will notice an improvement in your mood and energy levels. Also your waist size, most likely.

What is the main benefit over olive oil?

[bipolarmedstudent]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

What is the main benefit over olive oil?

olive oil is mostly monounsaturrated (which is neutral...not good for you, not bad for you), whereas safflower oil and sunflower oil are mostly polyunsatturated (which is really good for you). Also, safflower oil has a very high smoke point, so you can fry things to high temperatures without worrying about getting cancer.

[BuggsBunny]

Originally Posted by bipolarmedstudent

I don't really get the point of going off prescription meds only to go on herbal meds? Herbal meds are meds too. They have side effects, risks, etc. Given that most of our prescription meds are derived from plant sources anyway, I don't see a real distinction between herbal meds and prescription meds, except that with prescription meds at least the quality control is more reliable. How is SAMe (a processed herbal supplement) any different from a prescription drug (which is probably a synthetic version of some compound found in a plant anyway)? Both are processed, after all.

In my case, I am going off Lamictal, which was giving me an antidepressant lift, because of a rash. I cannot take the SSRI class of drugs I need to keep my mood up because of something my pdoc called a serotonin storm? (Or something like that. I was too amazed it had a name to pay that close attention to the exact name itself.) I need the serotonin, tho, and she is hoping this more natural version in the SAMe will give me the effect of an ssri without the allergic effects.

I'm not going off all my meds, in my case that would be a very stupid and irresponsible thing to do. I am, instead, trying to cut down on my meds, as 19 a day is wreaking havoc on my body.

As for my mentioning this to others trying to cut out meds, it has more to do with it being accessible from a pharmacy at any time it is needed, (no pdoc wait involved) than it has to do with it being an OTC vs an Rx.

[BuggsBunny]

Originally Posted by moremi

Where did you get this? I am looking to go off the meds all together and go the natual way. I dont know if the vegan lifestyle is for me or not. I may try not sure if I can commit to that yet.

My pdoc said to try Walgreens. I haven't gotten out to the store to look for it yet, but I will let you know where I end up finding it.

[Merlin]

It was probably serotonin syndrome.

I doubt I will go off meds anytime soon.

I think with a vegetarian/vegan diet you pay a lot of attention to what you eat and avoid eating processed food. I would try the trial and error approach and see if it works for you.