[Berly0384]

Ugh sometimes I hate being bipolar....was just up and now I'm down. It's so exhausting. Get scared when I start to have negative thoughts. Feel like it might last forever. Can't live in bed anymore...just got a new job and I have to support myself. I'm now 27 and it is time to grow up and show up. I can no longer use anything to self medicate or just give up. This scares me. I just don't know how to continuously live life. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to cope better and manage this disease? When I feel good it's no problem for me but managing the lows is hard for me. Don't want to get stuck anymore and give up....please help if u can

[BuggsBunny]

Are you on a mood stabilizer? That will help with the ups and downs, when you find the right dose. A good T can teach you some tricks with the negative thoughts (the old rubber band on the wrist going snap with a neg. thought is one of them). If you have no insurance yet, the county health dept. can help until you do. Not the best solution, them, but better than no help at all.

And I am sure the rest of the forum will have plenty of advice to add to my little bit.

[Anneinside]

Make sure you go to bed and get up at the same time each day.

[cocoabeans]

Relax. It's only tiring if you care.

[BuggsBunny]

Of course, the rest of us do know you care, or you wouldn't be asking us for help. Getting sleep at consistent times is a great suggestion. Another tip is regular meals, healthy ones, if you can manage it. I understand how hard that is to do when you are down, but even a little healthy is better than not at all. If all you can do is add a fruit or a vegetable, you are still improving your diet.

Try to get a little exercise each day, it actually does help lift your mood. Even a short walk will make you feel better.

[Clinte89]

When im down even though its terrible difficult i try to at least move that always seems to help a little. Exercise can be just doing short laps around the house so you know you dont have to go full blown exercise just keep moving, i find uo beat music helps to, avoid anything remotely emotional, that will make things worse. Watch something funny. My point being do anything you can and make sure its all positive. Its hard to do but sometimes you gotta fake it till ya make it.

Berly, when I first saw a psychiatrist years ago, she gave me the following instructions:

1. Do not drink alcohol; it makes bipolar illness worse.
2. Do not eat or drink anything with caffeine in it; it makes the illness worse.
3. Take your meds.
4. Establish a routine sleep schedule and try to adhere to it.

Now, after years of living with the disorder, I've learned a few other things that might help someone. (And that is my sole purpose: to try to help.)

Some of us are sensitive to caffeine; for those of us who are, it's not good for us to use coffee, tea, or chocolate because of the effects they have on the central nervous system. (Read, please, Ruth Whalen's article called "caffeine allergy" on DoctorYourself.com) You will know it if you have a sensitivity to it, according to my latest psychiatrists's view. It takes a while to get it out of the system if you have the sensitivity.

I need a sleep aid occasionally and Clonazepam helps. (Himalayan sea salt is helpful, too, because it's a sleep inducer. American processed sea salt is different and won't work.) 5htp Tryptophan is also helpful for some folks.

Everyone's body chemistry is different so you will need to do what you can to find what you need to do to help your chemistry a little. Eating fresh vegetables and fresh salads is helpful.

You've probably been told that bipolar illness is a chemical imbalance (and also an
inflammatory condition, my psychiatrist says). Whatever you can do to improve
that status is helpful. My psychiatrist recommended the Omega 3 fatty acids to help.

Please do some research on helpful ideas for managing bipolar illness. There are plenty of them out there, but you have to pick and choose which ones you want to believe and see if some of them work. Please always discuss these things with your psychiatrist for your best help.

This illness is manageable and will improve over the years if you take the proper medications and are careful about your exercise and diet. You may be better off than ever before if you work at solving the puzzle, even though it is an illness.

I wish you a lot of success on your journey to know as much as you can about the illness to help you and make you feel stronger.

Good wishes and keep posting as you wish.

Genetic

[hamster-bamster]

My p-doc said 2-3 coffees a day is ok, as long as the last one is no later than at three pm. Then it does not interfere with sleep.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

My p-doc said 2-3 coffees a day is ok, as long as the last one is no later than at three pm. Then it does not interfere with sleep.

My response to that, Hamaster-bamster is that psychiatry is not an exact
science but certainly more reputable than the internet!

For example, for those who have perfect metabolism, 2-3 coffees a day may be fine. But for those who have metabolic problems, such as slowed metabolism, diabetes, food allergies, etc., a recommendation like that cannot be taken as beneficial for everyone.

At the same time, avoiding caffeine in people who are not sensitive to it may be a wasted effort and a loss of an enjoyment unnecessarily.

Good wishes,

Genetic

[hamster-bamster]

I drink coffee out of necessity, not enjoyment. The necessity is exacerbated by the intake of psychothropic drugs. Since many people on this forum simultaneously work outside the home and take psych meds, the need for caffeine is especially pronounced. I have a thread about that, and from the multitude of responses and approaches you can gauge that it is not a fringe problem. A blanket, unrealistic prohibition is not welcome in such circumstances. As for the interplay between caffeine and metabolic disorders, I have never heard of that even though I am fairly read up on diabetes, and stand ready to be educated, therefore. Going back to the beginning, I am very glad you realize that loss of enjoyment is a consideration of great importance before issuing lifestyle-changing recommendation.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by genetic

My response to that, Hamaster-bamster is that psychiatry is not an exact
science but certainly more reputable than the internet!

For example, for those who have perfect metabolism, 2-3 coffees a day may be fine. But for those who have metabolic problems, such as slowed metabolism, diabetes, food allergies, etc., a recommendation like that cannot be taken as beneficial for everyone.

At the same time, avoiding caffeine in people who are not sensitive to it may be a wasted effort and a loss of an enjoyment unnecessarily.

Good wishes,

Genetic

Fair enough. Then please heed your own warning and preface your recommendation to completely abstain from caffeine - the recommendation you give now and again citing a potentially outdated p-doc advice -
With the list of "special conditions and sensitivities" that make such a recommendation applicable.

[hamster-bamster]

OP, sorry we hi-jacked your thread. Back to you, with good wishes.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I drink coffee out of necessity, not enjoyment. The necessity is exacerbated by the intake of psychothropic drugs. Since many people on this forum simultaneously work outside the home and take psych meds, the need for caffeine is especially pronounced. I have a thread about that, and from the multitude of responses and approaches you can gauge that it is not a fringe problem. A blanket, unrealistic prohibition is not welcome in such circumstances. As for the interplay between caffeine and metabolic disorders, I have never heard of that even though I am fairly read up on diabetes, and stand ready to be educated, therefore. Going back to the beginning, I am very glad you realize that loss of enjoyment is a consideration of great importance before issuing lifestyle-changing recommendation.

A newer, more recently confirmed psychiatric opinion given less than three months ago regarding caffeine use is hardly considered to be outdated. "For those sensitive to caffeine, it should not be used."

In fact, your psychiatrist who suggested that two to three cups per day prior to 3:00 P.M. is fine was too limited. He should have added, as most would, that for those sensitive to it, it is not recommended to be used. That's what I have reiterated time and again, offering sources from which that information came.

Diabetics may sometimes have what is called a form of "paresis" in digestion;
research is availble on that or it can be discussed with a physician. Slowed
metabolism can sometimes be related to depression; it can be researched or
checked with a physician. Food allergies are serious; food sensitivities or
intolerance may be checked with a physician or researched for anyone interested.

Again, my threads are written for those who are seeking something as an adjunct to medications.

My own personal opinion is that there must be a better way to relieve the acidic residue of medication metabolism than caffeine, but to each his own. Live and let live, as you imply.

We just do not agree with methods to help ourselves.
____________________________________________________________

Berly, please research what you find interesting, ignore the rest, and find the
best way you think is beneficial for your health. Good wishes to you in your
efforts. You will make progress, I feel sure.

Genetic

[hamster-bamster]

According to wikipedia, caffeine is used by 90% of US population, the vast majority of which is not bp. I imagine that 100% of the Brits use it if you count decaf tea because it still has some. China uses green tea which has some caffeine. Tea and coffee are major crops. If there were some widespread sensitivity to caffeine (it cannot be an allergy in the proper sense of the word because food allergies are reactions to offending proteins, think peanuts, nuts, shellfish, milk, wheat, soy, to a lesser extent beef, and caffeine is not a protein at all) that mimicked as bipolar, we'd see bp dxs in large numbers, and we do not - bp is a minority dx. But I do want to learn of an equally powerful, consistently working, socially acceptable, convenient tool to counteract the sedation and grogginess that are side effects of psych meds. I have actually asked already but received no answer.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

According to wikipedia, caffeine is used by 90% of US population, the vast majority of which is not bp. I imagine that 100% of the Brits use it if you count decaf tea because it still has some. China uses green tea which has some caffeine. Tea and coffee are major crops. If there were some widespread sensitivity to caffeine (it cannot be an allergy in the proper sense of the word because food allergies are reactions to offending proteins, think peanuts, nuts, shellfish, milk, wheat, soy, to a lesser extent beef, and caffeine is not a protein at all) that mimicked as bipolar, we'd see bp dxs in large numbers, and we do not - bp is a minority dx. But I do want to learn of an equally powerful, consistently working, socially acceptable, convenient tool to counteract the sedation and grogginess that are side effects of psych meds. I have actually asked already but received no answer.

That's wonderful. I hope they enjoy it. However, it isn't for everyone.

And, no, caffeine is not a protein, but it's highly acidic and some people can be and are sensitive to it and can have an intolerance for caffeine. For those who have an inherited allergy gene, anything can trigger reactions, and often the allergens change rapidly from one year to another.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the population has an inherited allergy gene and what percentage of the population understands the detrimental effects of caffeine on those sensitive to it or having an intolerance to it.

The truth is that most people enjoy their drinks and tolerate their allergens without ever bothering to look deeply into what they are doing. My interest is not in attempting to enlighten anyone who has no interest in learning. There have been some very grateful people along the way who have given me encouragement about trying to help the one who really wants to learn what's bothering him or her in regard to the unhappiness--if anything.

I don't think you will find a "socially acceptable, convenient tool to counteract the sedation and grogginess that are side effects of psych meds". You might wish to include,also, the excessive acidity, insomnia, slowing of metabolism in depression, in Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (which is believed to possibly be, in part, a result of bipolar illness, occurring far more frequently in women than in men), and many other side effects of psychotropic medications, such as closure of the tiny arteries in the kidneys as a result of prolonged use of lithium,-(and there's nothing doctors can do about that--from my nephrologist)or the toxicity of lithium (according to my endocrinologist, it's one of the most toxic medications on the market) or the loss of hair experienced in Depakote, acne in use of Lamictal for some, acne with lithium for some, etc. etc.

Some would like to reduce the side effects by helping themselves.

If there were such a product, as you request, psychiatrists would be prescribing it with each prescription, probably.

Actually, only about 7% of bipolar patients ever seek help for their illness if I read the data correctly several days ago. That leaves a very large percentage of bipolar patients who self-medicate in all likelihood to help with the problems of strong depression and highs. One can only imagine the effects that alcohol and caffeine have on a significant percentage of that group.

I also read the other day that about 27 million people in this country are the children of alcoholics and that worldwide there are about 130 million alcoholics. It is known that alcoholics will drink coffee when they are not drinking alcohol--that is, those who are not undergoing treatment or following the 12-step program which is one of the most effective programs available for recovery. And maybe they still do drink coffee--I don't know about that.

Alcohol use is "socially acceptable", so are some other drugs now that are on the market illegally, but that doesn't mean that 100% of people are engaging in them or have any desire to be part of the so-called "socially acceptable" followers. (I am not antisocial-I have just seen too much pretense in social situations to believe that social circumstances may differ sharply in a positive way from the lives of many good and well-meaning people who are not part of a social group.

It just isn't an "all or nothing" kind of reasoning that resolves a solution to use of caffeine in some and not in others. What works for one may or may not work for another.

It is known, for example, that sea salt (not American refined sea salt) but other types such as Himalayan and French or Hawaiian sea salt helps to remove acids from around brain cells. It may work for some, not for others. Caffeine is highly acidic; all medications are digested as acidic and leave an acidic residue.

As for the industries involved in coffee manufacturing, the same thing was true in regard to the tobacco industry and the states and companies involved in producing a marketable product. It was the 1963 Attorney General's Report on the effects of long-term use of tobacco that led many users of tobacco to give up the use of nicotine.

Since bipolar illness is an inflammation of a portion of the brain, it seems to me that one would be logically looking for the things that have the possibility of reducing symptoms. There is no recipe for all--not at this time, anyway. (It is also a chemical imbalance--both, per my psychiatrist.)

That's all I think is necessary for me to suggest in an effort to help those who may have a sensitivity or intolerance to caffeine.

I think you intimated earlier in a thread that you were virtually required to drink coffee to keep your job. If that's truly the case, you have a lawsuit against the group directing that as an order. Caffeine is one of the most psycho-active drugs available; it would be the equivalent of demanding that one drink alcohol to work.

I hope you really find and are happy with what works for you.

Genetic

Originally Posted by Berly0384

Ugh sometimes I hate being bipolar....was just up and now I'm down. It's so exhausting. Get scared when I start to have negative thoughts. Feel like it might last forever. Can't live in bed anymore...just got a new job and I have to support myself. I'm now 27 and it is time to grow up and show up. I can no longer use anything to self medicate or just give up. This scares me. I just don't know how to continuously live life. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to cope better and manage this disease? When I feel good it's no problem for me but managing the lows is hard for me. Don't want to get stuck anymore and give up....please help if u can

...a downer can go for days and the upper never stays!

it's not easy at all being supersensitive to everything around me and not knowing why and making radical decisions on impulse and not knowing why and having to always retrace steps to fix problems never quite having a life...oh boy!

...the people around me the things they say or not say or do or not do or appear, the sounds around me the music, noise...the racket! the weather am I hot or cold the things in my field of vision I seem to have an extreme reaction to and I don't know why I am supersensitive in my environment...the smells the aromas the tastes of things the feel of things on my skin the way my clothes fit or don't fit are things messy or are they clean...the way I see myself from moment to moment needing a firm idea cos I forget what I look like and need reminding...and do I recognise myself and I don't really like what I see no way!

...and am I happy with it and most likely not and I'm sure as hell not fitting in anywhere and then there is the vast ever expanding fantasy land in my head processing a galaxy of information ambushing me with flashbacks and opinions and conclusions and revelations and confusion mostly...

...all demanding I do something rational about it all?...I mean what the?

keeping a balance in amongst the onslaught is like standing tippie toe on a ball point pen in the dark on a mountain of jelly!

it's elusive and it's a cliche but hey it has to work today....I keep even a tiny speck of faith at the darkest times that it will pass and in the meantime the world just has to let me through....yep

[hamster-bamster]

It is first I hear that 12 step recovery aa is the most effective means. Where did you get that data? And no, social acceptability of coffee is not equal to social acceptability of alcohol - I can sit in a business meeting with a cup of coffee but not with a glass of vodka. Don't you see the diff?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effecti...lics_Anonymous

a very good, thorough article

I won't post anymore - thanks Dubblemonkey

Genetics: re "
I think you intimated earlier in a thread that you were virtually required to drink coffee to keep your job. If that's truly the case, you have a lawsuit against the group directing that as an order. Caffeine is one of the most psycho-active drugs available; it would be the equivalent of demanding that one drink alcohol to work.", no, I did not intimate that, I said that I was falling asleep on the job, would you as an employer keep an employee who falls asleep? My company is a typical Silicon Valley company, and as typical for this Valley, it runs on coffee, it offers free coffee knowing how important this energy fuel is, and the hacker who is responsible for the siteup of this forum most likely drinks several cups of coffee during his or her day on the job so indirectly you consume someone's coffee-fueled energy, just as you probably consume novels by Jane Austen - novels that she most likely wrote whilst drinking caffeinated tea. And no, the analogy to acne and other side effects is not valid - I seek a counteragent for the side effects and sometimes I find it (hypothyroidism and acne are virtually taken care of so that I can continue with Lithium) and sometimes I do not. But I seek. It is a valid request to find a counteragent for sleepiness that is socially acceptable. It may be that siesta is the best, most physiological treatment for midday sleepiness and research backs it up but it is not culturally, socially acceptable in Silicon Valley which is where I need to survive. If you would like to respond, please do so on my thread dedicated to caffeine, not here. Thank you.

I tried to get this topic back on track for Berly a junior member here.

...but if it's now about coffee, I don't drink it, it makes me hyper

hot chocolate instead

...now I feel like a self righteous jerk for writing that!

funny how the switch hits....apologies Hamster

[hamster-bamster]

You are an Aussie? When you come to California, visit me and I will make you a wonderful whole milk hot cocoa, beats hot chocolate by a long shot. Not that there is anything bad in hot chocolate, of course.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

You are an Aussie? When you come to California, visit me and I will make you a wonderful whole milk hot cocoa, beats hot chocolate by a long shot. Not that there is anything bad in hot chocolate, of course.

you're on...sounds great, yummm cocoa

just gotta patch the pesky holes in my canoe first and then eastbound.

...oh! hang on yep!...just realised we got an airport, hehe

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

you're on...sounds great, yummm cocoa

just gotta patch the pesky holes in my canoe first and then eastbound.

...oh! hang on yep!...just realised we got an airport, hehe

Careful with that airport - jetlag, they say, is hard on poor bipolars. The canoe, by contrast, moves you across time zones g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y.

..definitely make a bad pilot!

evening passengers...this is your captain having an episode! we are currently at 10,000 feet, which ironically is where I was born....so please relax and enjoy the flight...

...a nice gentle paddle in the pacific eating seagulls would be better yep

[lbrown1]

Originally Posted by genetic

Berly, when I first saw a psychiatrist years ago, she gave me the following instructions:

1. Do not drink alcohol; it makes bipolar illness worse.
2. Do not eat or drink anything with caffeine in it; it makes the illness worse.
3. Take your meds.
4. Establish a routine sleep schedule and try to adhere to it.

Now, after years of living with the disorder, I've learned a few other things that might help someone. (And that is my sole purpose: to try to help.)

Some of us are sensitive to caffeine; for those of us who are, it's not good for us to use coffee, tea, or chocolate because of the effects they have on the central nervous system. (Read, please, Ruth Whalen's article called "caffeine allergy" on DoctorYourself.com) You will know it if you have a sensitivity to it, according to my latest psychiatrists's view. It takes a while to get it out of the system if you have the sensitivity.

I need a sleep aid occasionally and Clonazepam helps. (Himalayan sea salt is helpful, too, because it's a sleep inducer. American processed sea salt is different and won't work.) 5htp Tryptophan is also helpful for some folks.

Everyone's body chemistry is different so you will need to do what you can to find what you need to do to help your chemistry a little. Eating fresh vegetables and fresh salads is helpful.

You've probably been told that bipolar illness is a chemical imbalance (and also an
inflammatory condition, my psychiatrist says). Whatever you can do to improve
that status is helpful. My psychiatrist recommended the Omega 3 fatty acids to help.

Please do some research on helpful ideas for managing bipolar illness. There are plenty of them out there, but you have to pick and choose which ones you want to believe and see if some of them work. Please always discuss these things with your psychiatrist for your best help.

This illness is manageable and will improve over the years if you take the proper medications and are careful about your exercise and diet. You may be better off than ever before if you work at solving the puzzle, even though it is an illness.

I wish you a lot of success on your journey to know as much as you can about the illness to help you and make you feel stronger.

Good wishes and keep posting as you wish.

Genetic

OH WOW!! no wander I am crazy ALL the time! I live on brownies, fruit roll ups, pizza, and I drink almost a 12pack of coca-cola a day. I have never had a sleep routine.. i nap at all different times, I never go to bed at the same time 2 nights in a row and who knows when I get up for the day. Let me tell ya I am a freakin mess 95% of the time! I dont take meds I dont like side affects.. 29 and I still think somehow I can control it or not let it mess life up but everyday of my life it affects me or my loved ones and usually not in a positive way.. I dont want meds but I think Ill try the other things you mentioned and see if it gets better!

Hi, LBrown1, I think you really might want to go back on medication if you are bipolar. Improviing your diet might help to make the drugs more tolerable, and you can always lower the dosage (with your doctor's approval) after you've gotten your diet in a workable, healthy condition for you.

This illness does some strange things: it gets worse as one ages without medication.
But being careful about things you are sensitive to and stayng with medications may make the illness much less troublesome as time goes on.

Take care of yourself, and thanks for the post.

Genetic