How Do Some Go Med-Free?

Hamster I know what natural means. I don't take a lot of anything except fish oil and things I am lacking in, shown through blood tests. it is better to get things from the natural source I agree. Calcium in women is up for debate right now.. supplements hurting or helping.

It doesn't matter what is older, lithium is found in nature. The fact is we have no idea what these meds can do.. some we do know, and it's pretty serious even as the correct dose.

Most of the psychiatric drugs are not found in nature, actually lithium is the only one I can think of off hand. Most are synthetic chemical compounds. That is a big difference.

It's like saying why worry about eating fast food, or preservatives and additives in your food. Some of this stuff does not occur in nature and I am concerned about that. Not everything in nature is good for the body, but synthetic chemicals? The explosion of synthetic chemicals over the last fifty years.. it's concerning for our health and environment. We have not had enough time to say what the outcome is of all this.

How long did it take scientists to make the connection between smoking and cancer... a very long time. I am just worried that these things are not being researched or tested for long enough or well enough before being released. What my BF is going through because of medication that was not well tested breaks my heart. I don't want that to happen to anyone. We trust and assume these things are safe, because they are giving them to us. And then there is the problem of bioaccumulation.

Yes, other than Lithium everything is a synthetic compound.

I also do not take questionable supplements - calcium I do not need because of eating/drinking plenty of dairy, multi-vitamins which are questionable I do not need because I eat a good diet, Resveratrol I used to take but do not need anymore because I drink red wine, Lutein I do take because my OD told me to, Fish Oil - everyone takes it, and as I sad vitamin D. That's all. So not a lot, no.

Anika, I agree with your insight into the whole matter of psychotropic medications
and the effort to steer as clear as possible from them. One of the major problems in my view is that everyone has a unique chemistry and not everyone can metabolize things the same way.

For example, many people take lithium and it works very well for them. I could not
take it and was told by my endocrinologist that lithium is one of the most toxic medications on the market. So I dropped it; my kidney function improved markedly
and nerve function was much more stable. Others take it without any problem and advocate it for use. My nephrologist was concerned at the time that lithium was
still considered the benchmark for treatment of bipolar illness. (It causes closure of the tiny arteries in the kidneys, and there's nothing doctors can do about that.)

It is the idiosyncrasy in individual chemistry that accounts for much of the effort to
combat bipolar illness with orthomolecular medical treatment rather than a psychotropic dependency. One problem of the latter method is that, for some, the
problems don't emerge immediately; it often takes years for the damage to show as it did in your boyfriend. That's the tragedy of it when that happens.

As long as we are in tune with our own physiology and are alert to the feeling tone changes when we fall away from a diet that works for us, we can always step back into balance with immediate changes. It's that learning step that we take that keeps us within ranges of acceptable feeling tone for each of us.

This society that we live in lends itself to the use of medications so strongly that one almost feels as if she/he is facing a strong wall of resistance when we speak about not using prescribed medications to treat an illness.

Don't lose heart, Anika. Your view is a very valid one and is being looked into by
more people than ever before, in my view, simply because it may be a way to
preserve the safety of our vital organs in the long run. I think you said that your boyfriend has a malfunctioning liver as the result of a medication.

I really don't see the need to defend the view; it's as valid as any other presented in the treatment of bipolar illness, and it is certainly defended by doctors and hospitals familiar with orthomolecular medicine.

yeah, this.

FFS, psychdrugs just ain't vitamins for your brain. They are mind altering substances. If it works for you, fine.

But if it worked oh-so-well for everybody, take a pill or few and live well, we all wouldn't be here. But it doesn't work so well, hence we try to find ways to cope otherwise.


Yeah. Will to live and move forwards is important. Perception is what matters. Yes, it is hard when it's all fuzzy and screwed up by our crazy... but that doesn't mean our minds are not capable of great things.

Thing is, there ARE alternatives. And I am very thankful we can talk about this here and learn new things, get ourselves thinking... and that we don't get banned or scare-mongered into following the mainstream, like on other boards, I seen.

"Thing is, there ARE alternatives. And I am very thankful we can talk about this here and learn new things, get ourselves thinking..."

That's it in a nutshell, Venus. Thanks for that.

I agree fully with your thinking on this.

I have not been on other boards so I have no point of comparison, but here it seems that people always discuss things freely.

Very few people who are not on any medications have cholesterol as low as mine, blood pressure as low as mine and blood sugar as low as mine, and these are the main parameters of metabolic health. What would I achieve by going med-free? What would be the benefit? Yes, I saw that marijuana appears to be an effective alternative treatment. Usually, being off drugs for even a couple of days caused symptoms, but not last time when I was off drugs (due entirely to my stupidity) for several days but on nightly THC and asymptomatic. Completely asymptomatic and with a clear mind. So, that may be an alternative path. Maybe marijuana can substitute for Lithium and Geodon and I can keep taking a little Prozac as an AD (marijuana does not work as an AD). Again, when I start paying for drugs, I might be drawn to trying to go off them and live on THC alone (plus some Prozac, which is old and cheap). But now that the drugs are free, why would I want to start experimentation? I do not get it. Everything is 100% good, no cycling at all. I am not too slow - I am able to chase and catch a frisky runaway cat - but not too fast, either - I am able to do a boring job at work that requires repetitive actions and attention to detail. So I am just right, always. Why would I want to disturb this equilibrium and try different approaches? What for? I do not have any bipolar symptoms.

And thinking that meds are just like supplements helps me take them all the time without resentment. Part of it is just naturally strong memory, but part of it is attitude. I keep reading about people irrationally forgetting to take the medicine they have paid good money for. There is probably some underlying resentment which explains what otherwise appears to be irrational behavior. Rationally, if you do not want to take the medicine, do not buy it. If you have bought it, take it.

Nobody is telling you to go off your drugs, if they work for you. But as you see as you *are* exception.

However, OP asked for alternatives. So some chipped in that yes, there are alternatives.
I am bit ticked off by "they will crush" post, tbh. It's just not needed.


well, you can think of it as pilled Goddesses of the rainbow dawn, if it helps you. But it's is it what it is? Naw.

people keep "forgetting" their meds, because they didn't luck out like you, and hate it, it's not working for them, it's making them feel crap. And many other reasons. But I don't think it's because they are "bad", or "stupid" or lesser in any way.

For those who forget to take a med, Venus, it may be that their unconscious minds are warning them of the hazards of continuing to take psychotropic meds in such quantity and at so freqent intervals. There is a failure to understand that not everyone is able (or wiling) to take drugs to find health.

I am not part of the drug culture--never have been and, God willing, never will be. Your post, Venus, that there is an alternative way is right, IMHO. And it works for some of us.

I'm not overwhelmed by the pharmaceutical industries suggestions that their way is the best and only way. Look how it has been abused, not so much by bipolar people, but by those who "must have" their drugs of choice just to be able to function, and it is strongly reflected in the drug manufacturers' ingredients that have been duplicated (attempts) by illegal drug manufacturers.

Go online and look at "slang terms for street drugs" and observe how many of them are related to the chemistry of pharmaceutical synthetic products. It's amazing. There is even a strong language structure built around them. One wonders sometimes if what he/she is hearing is a plea for a drug purchase or just an innocuous verbal expression! It's that prevalent in the world we live in. My term for it is the "underground drug culture", and it's obnoxious.

I am all for counteracting the drug culture wherever and whenever I am exposed to it. It could be dangerous in this age, but life is precious and needs to be preserved.

I wish those involved were able to keep it all to themselves and leave society alone with their efforts to engage more and more people in their drive for money and power.

If all of you are protected from those in society who try to encourage the use of drugs, whether legal or illegal, you are very, very fortunate in this day and age.

Thanks for all the input on these subjects; I'm convinced that those who try alternative methods have a valid approach,too, as much so as anyone who relies on other methods of treating an illness.

I think Passion 222 has had a full view of drugs, alternatives, and drug culture conflicts with her thread.

Saw this article earlier. I'm hoping that this could one day become 'my story': http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0929141530.htm

I only began having severe issues a year and a half ago at 19. I'm 20 and I think I haven't spent enough time in my illness that I can't hope for a stable, 'cured' future. Also, considering that I am so young, I don't like the idea of spending the last 60 years of my expected life span on medications. I have time to work it out and I'm not 'busted' yet.

In favor of meds: I think untreated bipolar disorder has the ability to get worse, along with other untreated psychiatric conditions. I think a lot of this could be a result of prolonged stress harming the brain and making it more difficult for it to recover. With bipolar disorder especially it's important to be stable. For, say, unipolar depression, where braincells die/shrink, it's really a downward spiral until intervention is sought. For these reasons I believe intervention with meds can be vitally important. Yet I also don't believe that discontinuation of a med at the right time will cause the patient's brain to immediately revert to the state it was in.

However, I know that treatment doesn't end with medication and that therapy, diet, exercise, healthy life choices and social conditions, etc are all part of 'healing' from a mental disorder. For this reason I like to think of medication as a 'leg up' before pursuing other healthy options.

But I also believe that many cannot get over their suffering without meds and that there are people who benefit more from medication than the side effects. I believe that meds can be important to neurological health, but I also think that healthy life style can become its own medication.

I RESENT this comment... Imagine I said you take meds coz you're too weak-willed to try 2 cope without a chemical safety net? You wouldnt like that, & you know what? I dont even think that,but apparantly you've been through my episodes with me,heard my voices,lived my delusions maybe you
were even there when I got sent inpatient? Judge not lest yea be judged... Just saying, a mile in my shoes ok?

I believe that my meds do help. When I was off them during mania, I got worse. I don't know that I would've had to be inpatient- the one time I was asked to go I didn't but I was still fully on my meds. I know when I stopped them I went through withdrawal and yet my mind still turns. Its an interesting question: Would I be okay without meds. I'm just not comfortable going there right now. My brain is having too much fun WITH the meds.

Interesting article, Odee. Now Google www.http://DoctorYourself.com Go down the left-hand column until you see an article called "Caffeine Allergy" by Ruth Whalen. It might interest you to know her findings as a lab technician who examined the brains of bipolar patients following their deaths.

It can take up to a year to recover from diet indiscretions for bipolar folks who make the effort to change conditions for themselves. Everything you can learn will help you to do that for your long-term care for yourself.

It is helpful to know that the prefrontal cortex (just above the eyes) is the area of the brain that is damaged by caffeine ingestion for those sensitive to it over a long period of its use. Whalen's article also explains some other phenomena in bipolar illness that may be induced by caffeine ingestion in those sensitive to it.

Then, there's also the newest book out by Dr. David Williams on the damage which
21st century wheat can cause to the brain.

You need to look at many things when you begin to offer explanations of what's going on in the brain tissues of bipolar patients.

Some of the newest work confirms what other doctors have asserted in years past regarding remission or recovery in this illness.

You're intelligent and could absorb these things well.

Be good to yourself, please.

I have been on here for over a year and I know that both medicated and unmediated people run the whole gamut in terms of their symptoms.

Plus, according to this site, 10% simply cannot be helped by medications, and not the "easiest" 10% but the general 10%, which, again, means that people who cannot be helped run the whole gamut.

Regarding caffeine: I drink caffeine in moderation and I am perfectly stable and asymptomatic. I usually have one latte, a couple cups of black tea, unlimited decaf black tea, unlimited caffeinated and decaf green tea, and a little dark chocolalate daily. That not only allows me to be asymptomatic with respect to bipolar but also permits me to sleep well and long on ridiculously low doses of Amitrtiptyline and THC - the doctor who prescribed Amitriptyline was surprised that that little worked for me and since he prescribed I have further reduced the dose to the bare minimum. My former p-doc advised caffeine before 3PM and I follow her advice. After 3PM I drink decaf tea only (or green tea which does not contain much caffeine).

So, food for thought. I have no plans to reduce or eliminate caffeine because I cannot improve on how I feel so why would I deprive myself? I must have tea; I subsist on tea. If I do not drink enough tea, I get migraines in a split second. Even forgetting all the antioxidants that tea is so famous for, just the sheer volume of liquid that tea gives me cannot be matched by anything else - I do not like drinking water, even flavored water. Plus, there is the social aspect - what do you do if you are invited to have a chat over coffee? I prefer to accept such invitations because I am a sociable person. So there is a very significant cost if you deny yourself caffeine: one of the best sources of liquid is gone, there is social awkwardness, good taste is gone - I love tea and I like my latte and occasional cappuccino, antioxidants in both tea and coffee are gone, and the great metabolic benefit of green tea is gone. And all the benefits of dark chocolate are gone. Altogether, a huge cost, in my mind. I hope the benefits that you reap outweigh this cost.

I had thought earlier I might erase a thread here, but I think not now.

For people who are sensitive to caffeine, there are no benefits to be outweighed. It is mandatory that the chemical be removed if one is ever to recover from the serious injury it causes the brain over long-term use. That has been made clear numerous times on this forum and has been confirmed by people who see the damage in brains of deceased victims.

One person who is alcoholic made the comment yesterday that she has been criticized by her sponsor for feeling that she couldn't indulge in coffee as part of her remission plan. The sponsor felt that caffeine was an essential for the alcoholic since he/she always had to have something to assist with the replacement of feeling tone which was derived from alcohol. That's nonsense. The girl was sensitive to caffeine and was completely correct in removing it from her system as quickly as possible and never using it again. (Someone told me years ago that an alcoholic drinks coffee when not drinking alcohol. I have no idea if that is true. Some of you who are in remission may know the answer to that.)

One of the big problems with caffeine (in addition to long-term brain damage occurring in those sensitive to it) is that it leaves a highly acidic residue following digestion. It is often the acidic residue of medications that is difficult for many bipolar patients to metabolize; and since caffeine slows metabolism, it could easily affect those who are sensitive to it in additional ways, such as having prolonged psychic disturbance from acidic residue of medications plus caffeine circulating in the fluids and organs of the body. In other ways, it is absorbed by organs of the body and each additional cup acts as a bolus for the sensitive individual. I've read recently that it may contribute to adrenal fatigue, as well--probably just for those sensitive to it, however.

(Must not leave a subject without offering some helpful information about how to alleviate some of the problem: using a lemon (cut and squeezed) into a glass of ice cold water will help reduce acidic residue. If one doesn't work, the second lemon,(4 hours later) squeezed into another glass of ice cold water will reduce strongly acidic reactions and leave the system feeling calm. It works for many, hopefully for anyone here who needs that.)

I am one who is sensitive to it and I know how it affected me for years. It was only after removing it from my diet that I was enabled to cut back on psychotropic meds and maintain chemical stability. There are others who know that sensitivity, as well. For us, caffeine is poison. Thank God we have our senses clear now.

Passion222, I hope this helps you. I'm exhausted regarding this theme.

Take care.

HB, I think you are more asymptomatic because of your lifestyle changes. You have changed (in a postive way) a lot in the past year. Youve also made strides on resolving past feelings. This could and probably did help contribute to meds helping.

Regardless of what anyone is doing, its good to be informed.

Also I believe antipsychotics should be used as prn since they work so fast. Idk if I agree with long term use of meds unless youve tried to make different life choices and its clearly not working. However I think stuff like life management classes should be a requirement after diagnoses. Then you get tools to start working on problem areas.

two things: decafinated tea is mutilated tea. There is some "healthy" way to do it, but mostly it's done chemically and it's simply horrid.

Green tea is also a stimulant. So drinking green tea only is not really as helpful as many think.
http://www.naturalnews.com/034227_gr..._caffeine.html

A really interesting thread.
I'm lucky my meds work and don't give me too bad side effects, but I often wonder what would happen if I went off my meds. Am I stable because of them or because of lifestyle changes? Are my coping strategies getting better? Do I really still need to be on meds?
I am intrigued by the article about people growing out of bp I was under the impression that it got worse with age...
Back to the OP... The best things (other than meds) that have helped me have been regular exercise- daily if possible and a good sleeping pattern. I have also changed the way that I think about myself to a much healthier view point with good therapy.

The decaffenianted tea I drink is decaffeinated without loss of antioxidants. I care that it be done correctly.

As for green tea - whatever works, works. Since I am able to sleep with virtually no drugs, whatever caffeine I have during the day is the right amount, right?

Confused, lifestyle changes are hugely important, but so correctly dosed drugs, including THC and alcohol. Today, a little wine helped me do what I loathe and usually negelct doing: mop my kitchen floor. Hoorah! I will now try doing it weekly. And I mean, just a tiny bit of wine. So in my 6 years with psychiatry what I have learned is the importance of dosing. And beyong psychiatry, too. Alcohol in high doses is toxic. In moderate, therapeutic doses it is hugely helpful: it prevents a host of diseases and is a must if you plan to live a long life actively and independently. Sure, there are people who cannot stop at the therapeutic dose and such people should not drink at all, but people like me who can dose properly and who do not experience untoward drug interactions should consume alcohol for their long-term health. I have learned to dose marijuana through trial and error and now consume very very little without absolutely any psychodelic effect. My doctors learned to dose Lithium through trial and error - I was at a dose that was toxic but now am at low-to-medium dose that is not toxic but just helpful. I take the smallest possible dose of Prozac (no wonder I experience no side effects). The smallest possible dose of Amitriptyline (likewise, no side effects which is not surprising at this low dose). Started on a very small dose of Topamax and we will see if it works, so far no side effects. Geodon - you all know what it did to me at high doses but at a medium dose I am fine. So it all depends on the dose. But there are absolutely pernicious medications which give side effects at any dose - Zyprexa with weight and Depakote with tremor have been like that for me. Clearly I am never going back to those, ever.

The point of saying that I am asymptomatic was to clarify that abstinence from alcohol and caffeine is not a necessary condition for remaining asymptomatic.

But I can believe that there are people who have some special sensitivity to caffeine similar to my having mild lactose intolerance.

I was just saying, possibly for the others, that "green tea is good evening drink" is quite a myth.

I'm in the same boat w/ u BipolaRNurse. Without my meds I was a manic mess. I was fortunate that it didn't take long for the right combination of meds to be found. I do know many ppl aren't so lucky and are ginny pigs. I do hope to one day use natural resources but until that day.......

I finally got a chance to respond to my own post. Lol. Been having such hard time getting in here to catch up with all of you. I agree that meds side effects can make things worse as in like me, I just can't stand the weight gain and now I have horrible tinnitus in my left ear and my right ear has been deaf since birth. I think the meds I'm on are causing hearing loss. It's scaring me. I can't tolerate the side effects of most antidepressants. So far only Wellbutrin and Lamictal are the easiest combo on my system. I'm afraid to go off because I'm afraid ill lose control again. I'm finally in a good place. Work is awesome. I'm getting along with everyone without picking a continuous argument. The arguments were uncontrollable. I had random sex whenever I felt I wanted to. See--good and bad--where do I go with this. I called a holistic dr and plan on discussing a more natural way but how effective is holistic compared to chemical medicine??

My pdoc said someday we can take me off meds but she thinks I'm the best I've been in years. I do agree mentally. But this weight gain and hearing loss messing with my mental being too

You already have a ton of posts (and I admit to not reading all of them), but my take on it is...I'm a better person with the meds and put the people I love through hell without them. So, I suck up with side effects. However, there is a new clinic in Calgary called True Hope, they claim that our bodies are out of line due to vitamin problems and help you slowly get off your meds. No promises, but you can get the info.