Dealing with doubters

Today at work I got into an email argument with my one friend. It happened right before 5 pm and it has LITERALLY been in my head all night. I think I was just having a hard time explaining the thought process of bipolar and he was having an equally hard time understanding it.

He simply could NOT understand how I could so dramatically lose sight of "right and wrong". Doing the "right" thing should just be a foregone conclusion, no? I've always been ruled by my feelings, I suppose it's one of my big weaknesses. And I said that doing the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing simply because someone told me it was the right thing to do seemed shallow and disingenuous if my heart doesn't mean it. Not only that, but if we're being honest my view of "right and wrong" can be a bit flimsy depending on what kind of mood I'm in.

I find myself dealing with dramatically "black and white" people more and more. My husband being one of them. And it's driving me even further crazy. In my view, everything is gray, nothing is clearcut or easy, everything has a deeper explanation that I just guess I'm not nearly smart enough to articulate. I'm sure you come across people like this. How do you deal with them? And what if you happen to be married to one?

Nessa213 I don't constantly deal with people who think in black and white, but enough to understand them. I know they won't understand things are in shades of gray. It's hard for me to explain it to them because the people I know can't get their brain to understand.

Sometimes I have to talk a certain way so I don't have explain what I said more than once. I have gotten so good at one point, it came naturally without any sensation of talking down to them. But it's hard. I had to make adjustments in my technique without being obvious.

It's hard to not be myself in situations like that because it is a part of me that is creative, fun side of things that puts spice in things.

Like your reference to shades of grey to black and white, I sometimes feel the reference to colour as the rainbow versus black and white.

Somewhere it has been said that the playful part of a person comes from the creative side of human beings. I agree with that.

Sorry, if I could not come up with more helpful advice.

In a way, I'm very black and white because I believe that the right thing to do is always obvious. I have never had any difficulty determining this.

Problem is, there are a lot of right things that I could be doing now that I'm simply not, but neither am I doing anything wrong. I live in gray, because I can't live a life prostrating myself to only ever doing the right thing. I just avoid the wrong.

One thing that I believe is absolutely right: Not forcing others to your moral standards. I can do my thing my way and I don't insist that people act, think, or feel the way I do. People are free to make their own judgements, as long as they don't threaten the well being of others.

I believe the well being of others/everyone is the ultimate of virtues. This is what allows me to perceive actions as black or white, because it is one question of whether something helps or harms. How this obtained is diluted in grays, but the core aim is all the same.

You may very well more articulate than you think. I'm very much like you in seeing the black, white, gray, and every rainbow color in between ( I like how Optimize put it). I struggle with this with my sister, she's very quick and articulate but has quick opinions and decisions. I'm left more fully considering all the angles and perspectives, which leaves me with difficulty responding as quickly. I like to take my time to really think things through. But yes depending on a mood and circumstances I might also change my mind about just how right or wrong something might be. I would call you very thoughtful and open minded.

Sometimes the best way to deal with something is to agree to disagree. The truth is, no everyone can be convinced to see things the way you see them, or understand them. Some people either choose not to understand or just can't for whatever reason.

You've got to put these people on certain levels. A friend like that, who either refuses or can't understand what I'm saying, I will refrain from discussing my bipolar with them. I have a co-worker friend who I think has bipolar. But she doesn't believe in seeing psychiatrists or Ts at all, both culturally and spiritually. So after I realized there was no way I could convince her to talk to her issues with a doctor, I just dropped it. She will tell me how she's feeling and I just listen and let her know I understand. That's all I can do.

I don't know. Who says that we should always do the right thing? I mean... sure, we might lose sight of right and wrong, or even know the difference when we do the wrong thing... but come on, really? We are not perfect people and sometimes, well... sometimes I know for me I just don't give a damn. Why should we be perfect people anyways. there are so many people in this world that constantly, purposefully do the wrong thing that if sometimes we choose the wrong thing, then who cares, right? I guess what I am saying, is that for me,

sometimes I just don't give a ****! and that's okay.

Good and bad concepts are ingrained socially.

People are easy to judge based on the beliefs and values they grew up with. I know there are some subjects where I have b/w thinking and others where Im able to see the grey.

Learning how to listen is a good skill to have though.

Thanks everyone for your posts.

I tried not to talk to this friend very much yesterday. He's one of those that doesn't really "believe" in any kinds of mental illness and our conversation on Thursday just REALLY got into my head. To HIM, the issues I'm dealing with are completely controllable, and I'm simply not trying hard enough. So he got me thinking "What if I AM just a fraud? What if I CAN control my thoughts and feelings, but I'm just choosing not to?

Yesterday just wasn't a good day for me all around and it might have ended with a breakdown after I got home from work. I'm just tired. And sometimes I feel like I just can't do this anymore. Why would I? Sometimes I just want to think "What's the point, really?" But can I control that thought? Can I make it go away? Did I WANT that thought, so that's why I had it?

Ugh... I just don't know anymore.

Sorry... for the vent.

Three things strike me:

1. Blue Inanna's statement that she likes all types of personalities and views. That's the ideal, and I like that very much.

2. Judgmental. It's wrong. It's narrow-minded, and it's unfair. Don't ever judge yourself based on somebody else's opinion of who you are. People don't reveal the real truth about things you're talking about when they speak. They really reveal more of themselves than anything else. Don't judge yourself at all; just live by your deepest inner principles and you'll be fine.

3. The black and white view: unfortunately, that can be one symptom of bipolar illness, that and letting our feelings get in the way of our thinking. The black and
white thinking is too tyrannical; it's narrow-minded also and people who have that peculiar trait need to get psychiatric help to find a better way of behaving. I've
seen it in one woman who was terribly paranoid (but very intelligent) and she could
come up with some of the most awful attitudes that were so narrow in thinking you
can't imagine. I had to distance myself from it as much as I could.

Yeah thats funny bc I've been told I'm extreme. I think ppl like u are closer to the truth though. Some things imo, are black and white, however more often than not there is grey in there. Just my thoughts on it. are u doing any better with this?

I agree with you that the 'right' thing to do can be very subjective, but what does "the thought process of bipolar" have to do with it?

I agree. I know there have been recent findings on the genetic similarities between schizophrenia and bipolar, but still, schizophrenia is a thought disorder and bipolar is a mood disorder (with sleep, anxiety, etc. components but still). So the thought process of bipolar is intact.

This is probably a perfect example of me not being as articulate as I might think I am being.

As background, the actual conversation was revolving around a manic episode I had about 6 years ago. I was unemployed at the time, having just been fired, and having JUST signed the lease to an apartment that I could have barely afforded even WITH the salary of that job. Anyway, I'll spare you details, but essentially a massive... and I mean MASSIVE credit card debt was accrued.

What I was trying to explain to him was that at the time I didn't... or rather, I simply COULDN'T think that what I was doing was being a detriment. Actually, at the time I thought I was seriously doing nothing wrong. I was going to land a new job soon, a better one, or I was going to make thousands of dollars a month being a freelance graphic designer. I honestly 100% believed that at the time. And I simply could NOT explain to my friend how THAT thought process worked. I know now those thoughts were irrational and delusional. At the time I didn't think that way. I couldn't.

Calling it the "thought process of biploar", that's not really what I meant. More, what goes through my mind when I'm in THAT frame of mind. I'm just dumb sometimes and have communication issues.

Oh not dumb at all, Nessa213! Now I get it!

I've never tried to explain that sort of thing to anyone but my therapist and psychiatrist precisely because (as seemed to occur in your case) I don't think they'd understand, and may well misjudge me. I recently ran into some people I was around a couple of times during a manic episode I had a few months ago (the first I'd had in a couple of years) and I was so ashamed. I'm not that close to them, but even if I were I can't imagine trying to explain it to them. They're lovely people, actually, but it's just not going to happen. In fact, they, like me, work in healthcare and as I think BipolarNurse has said, you'd think health care professionals would be more understanding, but in fact... no.

I've done the credit card thing, I hear you. For me, in a way i feel like I'm super high on coke or crack or something (and with the accompanying shame and fuzzy memory after the fact), I'm a completely different person. Sometimes I think it would be easier for people to understand if I said I was drunk or high or something. Not 'approve' of course, but maybe get it better.