My pdoc and psychologist are trying to convince me to take my meds, I'm not so sure they have the right opinions on this matter. The meds are olanzapine up to 10 mg (zyprexa) and lamotrigine 200 mg (lamictal). Please reply, I need some input!

Why I should take them:
I have been on them before and I noticed a huge effect from 10 mg olanzapine, but barely anything from 200 mg lamotrigine. I'm bipolar II and have been living with ultra-rapid cycles since I tried escitalopram less than a year ago. I started on olanzapine 10 mg to stop the manic episode induced by escitalopram and the cycles were mostly under control while I took my meds, even though I was still suicidal and have been ever since I was a little kid. I was told to stop taking my meds because my Ts, who I met a while after this episode, didn't believe me when I told them I had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder. I told them "I have bipolar", and lately they told me "at first we didn't believe you had bipolar". So basically they didn't believe me and I see no reason why I should trust them. After struggling with them for a while I finally showed up to my appointment in a hypomanic state. They then proceeded to call my previous therapists and doctors and I got the diagnosis very quickly, so now they want me back on the same meds. I should note that my BMI is a little above 15 and I lost about 30 pounds in 3 months after quitting olanzapine, so obviously the weight gain is much needed. Another thing that's bugging me is that this could maybe get even worse if I don't start taking meds. There is the possibility of permanent damage. I don't know where I read this and I hope it's not true. Lastly, I would be able to smoke less weed, but not quit, if I took my meds.

Why I do not want to take them:
- They make me more lethargic than any amount of weed has ever done, and weed is also a good situational mood stabilizer for me.
- They do not help much with my depression, which is kind of chronic, but they do remove the most extreme episodes and they also help with the mixed episodes. I like my hypomania and don't want it to go away.
- It's true that I have been more suicidal since stopping the meds, but that's not an issue for me, it's an issue for the people around me who are already suffering anyway. Honestly I do not think it would make a huge difference to their happiness if I died (not that I currently intend to).
- They make me feel as if something is missing. I have a thing with my brain. It's as if someone is putting knowledge, wisdom and ideas in my mind. These very complicated and meaningful thought structures appear suddenly, and sometimes I express them before I'm aware of them, and I do not know where they come from. It's not normal, I have never been and I know the difference. I like to think of them as the doings of benevolent spirits, but I'm not religious or psychotic. When I take meds they almost go away completely and I miss them a lot, I feel alone and less than myself.
- I'm making a mood tracker and I want to track my moods in my non-medicated state.
- I would like to become a mini-genius of some sort, but I don't feel like I have that opportunity when I'm on my meds because they dull my senses and slow me down.

I see there are many good reasons to take them, but I'm not sure if they outweigh the reasons I have to stay away from them. Would I be more or less at risk for permanent damage (i.e. brain injury) if I take the meds? I have had uncontrolled movements in my shoulders especially and upper body since I stopped olanzapine, but I have told my pdoc. And is it really worth being stable if I lose so much?

[emgreen]

As you might know, this has been a touchy subject on other threads. The ultimate decision whether to take meds or not is up to you. Many folks have good luck substituting other means in place of meds (lifestyle changes, DBT, etc.), while others swear by taking meds.

One thing that concerns me is your statement that you've become more suicidal since going off the meds. I find that the effects of my medications are pretty subtle (I'm on abilify, lamictal -- which is a pretty good mood stabilizer for me -- & lexapro -- an AD). I don't recognize/have many side-effects to meds. If you don't want to go back on all of your meds, I might consider taking an AD to see if that decreases your suicidal ideations. As far as meds destroying brain cells, I'm not certain that's true (though others might feel it's so).

Ultimately, the decision to take meds is up to you. If you can cut back on the "bud," that might be a good idea. It's a depressant &, in my case, makes me paranoid (as if I'm not paranoid enough ). Good luck weighing your decision. I'm impressed with your list of the pros & cons, so I'm sure you'll make a decision that's right for you.

Originally Posted by emgreen

As far as meds destroying brain cells, I'm not certain that's true (though others might feel it's so).

........................

Good luck weighing your decision. I'm impressed with your list of the pros & cons, so I'm sure you'll make a decision that's right for you.

I'm more worried about the possibility of motor syndromes from zyprexa than dying brain cells in general. Thank you for being impressed with my lists, that made me smile!

[thebelljar12]

Originally Posted by Mandrec

My pdoc and psychologist are trying to convince me to take my meds, I'm not so sure they have the right opinions on this matter. The meds are olanzapine up to 10 mg (zyprexa) and lamotrigine 200 mg (lamictal). Please reply, I need some input!

Why I should take them:
I have been on them before and I noticed a huge effect from 10 mg olanzapine, but barely anything from 200 mg lamotrigine. I'm bipolar II and have been living with ultra-rapid cycles since I tried escitalopram less than a year ago. I started on olanzapine 10 mg to stop the manic episode induced by escitalopram and the cycles were mostly under control while I took my meds, even though I was still suicidal and have been ever since I was a little kid. I was told to stop taking my meds because my Ts, who I met a while after this episode, didn't believe me when I told them I had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder. I told them "I have bipolar", and lately they told me "at first we didn't believe you had bipolar". So basically they didn't believe me and I see no reason why I should trust them. After struggling with them for a while I finally showed up to my appointment in a hypomanic state. They then proceeded to call my previous therapists and doctors and I got the diagnosis very quickly, so now they want me back on the same meds. I should note that my BMI is a little above 15 and I lost about 30 pounds in 3 months after quitting olanzapine, so obviously the weight gain is much needed. Another thing that's bugging me is that this could maybe get even worse if I don't start taking meds. There is the possibility of permanent damage. I don't know where I read this and I hope it's not true. Lastly, I would be able to smoke less weed, but not quit, if I took my meds.

Why I do not want to take them:
- They make me more lethargic than any amount of weed has ever done, and weed is also a good situational mood stabilizer for me.
- They do not help much with my depression, which is kind of chronic, but they do remove the most extreme episodes and they also help with the mixed episodes. I like my hypomania and don't want it to go away.
- It's true that I have been more suicidal since stopping the meds, but that's not an issue for me, it's an issue for the people around me who are already suffering anyway. Honestly I do not think it would make a huge difference to their happiness if I died (not that I currently intend to).
- They make me feel as if something is missing. I have a thing with my brain. It's as if someone is putting knowledge, wisdom and ideas in my mind. These very complicated and meaningful thought structures appear suddenly, and sometimes I express them before I'm aware of them, and I do not know where they come from. It's not normal, I have never been and I know the difference. I like to think of them as the doings of benevolent spirits, but I'm not religious or psychotic. When I take meds they almost go away completely and I miss them a lot, I feel alone and less than myself.
- I'm making a mood tracker and I want to track my moods in my non-medicated state.
- I would like to become a mini-genius of some sort, but I don't feel like I have that opportunity when I'm on my meds because they dull my senses and slow me down.

I see there are many good reasons to take them, but I'm not sure if they outweigh the reasons I have to stay away from them. Would I be more or less at risk for permanent damage (i.e. brain injury) if I take the meds? I have had uncontrolled movements in my shoulders especially and upper body since I stopped olanzapine, but I have told my pdoc. And is it really worth being stable if I lose so much?

I actually really like that Emgreen said its YOUR decision, and no one should judge you in how you continue to work through this.

I also am compelled and excited to get hypomanic because you do get so much done. Have you ever done anything really bad like slept around, shopping sprees, breaking the law?...

As long as you're not suffering from being a little manic, and its not affecting your work or relationships, I personally don't think its a bad thing. It's only when it gets out of control and you could end up doing something that you will regret later on. Suicidal Thoughts are very typical when this hypomania gets out of hand.

If you have someone close to you that is able to tell you when it's too much, and you feel like you can trust them, I think it'd be safe to not take meds. But that is just my opinion, I am not a Doctor.

Take care

[Victoria'smom]

First you need a dr. & t that you trust. you could lower your meds to see if there's a spot that keeps you feeling like you but takes "the edge" away. There are other medications if you don't like one find one your okay with.You haven't told us the symptoms that trouble you maybe we can help you deal with those.

[bunnifoo]

If you don't trust your therapist and your shrink then you should probably try and find ones you do that's a huge step.

There's also lots of different medications and it can be tricky to try the right things. I gained almost 20 lbs in one month on Zyprexa and was taken off of it because of the weight gain and anxiety attacks it was giving me. I tried a few other medications that caused side effects. Abilify works great for some people but it made me drowsy and brain fog. I' was on another that gave me painful pins and needles feeling all over my body.

For the past 8 years or so I've been on Seroquel and for awhile I was on Lamictal and it helped but then things changed and now I'm on Lithium and Klonopin and I'm about to start tapering off the Seroquel (just have to get lab results back).

Personally I'm all about medication , I've only had a few experiences that could be considered positive with my untreated bipolar disorder and I never want to go back. I dread the thought of becoming hypomanic as much as I dread becoming depressed. But everyone is different.

Unfortunately sometimes you have to try things or different therapists or therpaises with the knowledge that it may not work and you may have to try something new.

Hopefully one day the science will be precise enough that there will be some kind of test doctors can do and know exactly which types of drugs individuals will respond to. Until then it's a lot of trial and error.

Originally Posted by Mandrec

My pdoc and psychologist are trying to convince me to take my meds, I'm not so sure they have the right opinions on this matter. The meds are olanzapine up to 10 mg (zyprexa) and lamotrigine 200 mg (lamictal). Please reply, I need some input!

Why I should take them:
I have been on them before and I noticed a huge effect from 10 mg olanzapine, but barely anything from 200 mg lamotrigine. I'm bipolar II and have been living with ultra-rapid cycles since I tried escitalopram less than a year ago. I started on olanzapine 10 mg to stop the manic episode induced by escitalopram and the cycles were mostly under control while I took my meds, even though I was still suicidal and have been ever since I was a little kid. I was told to stop taking my meds because my Ts, who I met a while after this episode, didn't believe me when I told them I had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder. I told them "I have bipolar", and lately they told me "at first we didn't believe you had bipolar". So basically they didn't believe me and I see no reason why I should trust them. After struggling with them for a while I finally showed up to my appointment in a hypomanic state. They then proceeded to call my previous therapists and doctors and I got the diagnosis very quickly, so now they want me back on the same meds. I should note that my BMI is a little above 15 and I lost about 30 pounds in 3 months after quitting olanzapine, so obviously the weight gain is much needed. Another thing that's bugging me is that this could maybe get even worse if I don't start taking meds. There is the possibility of permanent damage. I don't know where I read this and I hope it's not true. Lastly, I would be able to smoke less weed, but not quit, if I took my meds.

Why I do not want to take them:
- They make me more lethargic than any amount of weed has ever done, and weed is also a good situational mood stabilizer for me.
- They do not help much with my depression, which is kind of chronic, but they do remove the most extreme episodes and they also help with the mixed episodes. I like my hypomania and don't want it to go away.
- It's true that I have been more suicidal since stopping the meds, but that's not an issue for me, it's an issue for the people around me who are already suffering anyway. Honestly I do not think it would make a huge difference to their happiness if I died (not that I currently intend to).
- They make me feel as if something is missing. I have a thing with my brain. It's as if someone is putting knowledge, wisdom and ideas in my mind. These very complicated and meaningful thought structures appear suddenly, and sometimes I express them before I'm aware of them, and I do not know where they come from. It's not normal, I have never been and I know the difference. I like to think of them as the doings of benevolent spirits, but I'm not religious or psychotic. When I take meds they almost go away completely and I miss them a lot, I feel alone and less than myself.
- I'm making a mood tracker and I want to track my moods in my non-medicated state.
- I would like to become a mini-genius of some sort, but I don't feel like I have that opportunity when I'm on my meds because they dull my senses and slow me down.

I see there are many good reasons to take them, but I'm not sure if they outweigh the reasons I have to stay away from them. Would I be more or less at risk for permanent damage (i.e. brain injury) if I take the meds? I have had uncontrolled movements in my shoulders especially and upper body since I stopped olanzapine, but I have told my pdoc. And is it really worth being stable if I lose so much?

You are the only one that can decide if u should take meds or not.

I needed to try many before I found the right combo. So far on my new combo I'm doing better than I have in years. Also, meds affect everyone differently. Seroquel made me like a zombie and I ate after I took it like I was starving to death. For some it works.

Good luck with your decision.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by Mandrec

My pdoc and psychologist are trying to convince me to take my meds, I'm not so sure they have the right opinions on this matter. The meds are olanzapine up to 10 mg (zyprexa) and lamotrigine 200 mg (lamictal). Please reply, I need some input!

Why I should take them:
I have been on them before and I noticed a huge effect from 10 mg olanzapine, but barely anything from 200 mg lamotrigine. I'm bipolar II and have been living with ultra-rapid cycles since I tried escitalopram less than a year ago. I started on olanzapine 10 mg to stop the manic episode induced by escitalopram and the cycles were mostly under control while I took my meds, even though I was still suicidal and have been ever since I was a little kid. I was told to stop taking my meds because my Ts, who I met a while after this episode, didn't believe me when I told them I had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder. I told them "I have bipolar", and lately they told me "at first we didn't believe you had bipolar". So basically they didn't believe me and I see no reason why I should trust them. After struggling with them for a while I finally showed up to my appointment in a hypomanic state. They then proceeded to call my previous therapists and doctors and I got the diagnosis very quickly, so now they want me back on the same meds. I should note that my BMI is a little above 15 and I lost about 30 pounds in 3 months after quitting olanzapine, so obviously the weight gain is much needed. Another thing that's bugging me is that this could maybe get even worse if I don't start taking meds. There is the possibility of permanent damage. I don't know where I read this and I hope it's not true. Lastly, I would be able to smoke less weed, but not quit, if I took my meds.

Why I do not want to take them:
- They make me more lethargic than any amount of weed has ever done, and weed is also a good situational mood stabilizer for me.
- They do not help much with my depression, which is kind of chronic, but they do remove the most extreme episodes and they also help with the mixed episodes. I like my hypomania and don't want it to go away.
- It's true that I have been more suicidal since stopping the meds, but that's not an issue for me, it's an issue for the people around me who are already suffering anyway. Honestly I do not think it would make a huge difference to their happiness if I died (not that I currently intend to).
- They make me feel as if something is missing. I have a thing with my brain. It's as if someone is putting knowledge, wisdom and ideas in my mind. These very complicated and meaningful thought structures appear suddenly, and sometimes I express them before I'm aware of them, and I do not know where they come from. It's not normal, I have never been and I know the difference. I like to think of them as the doings of benevolent spirits, but I'm not religious or psychotic. When I take meds they almost go away completely and I miss them a lot, I feel alone and less than myself.
- I'm making a mood tracker and I want to track my moods in my non-medicated state.
- I would like to become a mini-genius of some sort, but I don't feel like I have that opportunity when I'm on my meds because they dull my senses and slow me down.

I see there are many good reasons to take them, but I'm not sure if they outweigh the reasons I have to stay away from them. Would I be more or less at risk for permanent damage (i.e. brain injury) if I take the meds? I have had uncontrolled movements in my shoulders especially and upper body since I stopped olanzapine, but I have told my pdoc. And is it really worth being stable if I lose so much?

Hi Mandrec,

From what you say, it sounds like the ultrarapid episodes you were having were triggered by the citalopram you were taking and with taking Zyprexa it got better? If that was the principal cause, do you think not being on that antidepressant may mean no more episodes? Although you mention a hypomanic episode after that, I think. To what extent do the hypomania episodes bother you/interfere negatively in your life? If they're mild enough not to cause too many problems, might that tip the scale more towards not taking the Zyprexa you have such reservations about? Then again, it seems your psychiatrist wants you to take it.

I think it was you (please correct me if I'm wrong) who mentioned you were considering the possibility that some of your symptoms might be more due to BPD? I bring it up because although ultra-rapid cycling exists, of course, in Bipolar, also very rapid shifts in mood are pretty characteristic of BPD (including shifting to being hyper, etc.). Have you been able to figure out which might be more at play here? Or does it depend what's going on? I know it can be a difficult differential diagnosis.

I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully your psychiatrist can help you make the decision about Zyprexa. At least Lamictal (which doesn't seem to help you, though) has a very mild side effect profile, but the decision to take Zyprexa or not is so huge because of -as you have experienced- the side effects can be pretty heavy.

Hugs to you!

Frankly, if I were in your shoes, I'd stay on the prescribed medications until you feel relatively stable, then discuss some changes in your diet with your psychiatrist. You already know from reading other posts here that certain changes in the foods, drinks, etc., that you eat have a significant bearing on feeling tone.

I followed a change in my diet and was able to reduce meds to 10 mg Prozac once daily and a food med called Deplin (a concentrated form of folate).

I had the misfortune, too, of having a psychiatrist who wanted to pour the medications on, and I just frankly told her that I was going to do something different from what she thought was the route to go. I went to see a more moderate psychiatrist and was very content with 100 mg Lamictal daily and .5 mg Clonazepam for sleep as needed. Then I got to work on the diet and lemon things you've heard me talk about. I was Bipolar II, also.

(If the first thing they do is pour on the meds, be alert. You may
feel quite different on the second visit and the psychiatrist could easily
recognize that what appeared to be a serious state on the first visit
wasn't necessarily a typical one for you.)

There is risk of damage to the brain over a period of years if you go untreated. The risks for psychotic breaks are more severe in bipolar I, but the depressions of bipolar II are severe.

Because judgment can be affected over the long run without medications, I'd stay with a workable plan for meds. Why don't you discuss this with your psychiatrist and ask about meds that have fewer side effects.

Every medication out there leaves an acidic residue or ash when digested. You already know the ideas to reduce acidity of tissues and fluids, so you could manage that probably over a period of time by following changes in your diet.

I am one who dislikes taking meds, too, and I found the way to keep things stable by taking Prozac in small dose and Deplin along with working at diet and adding Omega 3 acids (which is a real life saver for many aspects of your physical and psychic conditions).

You really could benefit by being perfectly honest about your feelings. The "coctail" of meds should not be so strong as to make you unable to function; it should be enough, though, to keep you stable.

Sleep is especially important. If you have trouble with that, ask for a prescription of something to take until you get your brain chemistry stabilized; then I'd stop taking it unless really necessary because some of them are benzos whcih can be addictive.

Take care of yourself physically; that goes a long, long way in preparing you to have fewer meds and lower dosages of the ones you do need now.
I really can't see that marijuana is beneficial in the long run. People tell
me that weed is far more concentrated than it was years ago, and some people are having to go with a 12-step program to get it out of their
systems and get themselves back on a path to health. But then wheat
can do similar things, so we just have to be careful, in my view.

Thanks for all the replies! I still can't decide though. I guess if I can't decide I should just wait until I can. I had some tough days (not sure why, I didn't feel very depressed, maybe I'm in a slightly mixed episode), but has it really been three days since I posted this already? Wow. Sorry about that.

Originally Posted by thebelljar12

I also am compelled and excited to get hypomanic because you do get so much done. Have you ever done anything really bad like slept around, shopping sprees, breaking the law?...

As long as you're not suffering from being a little manic, and its not affecting your work or relationships, I personally don't think its a bad thing. It's only when it gets out of control and you could end up doing something that you will regret later on. Suicidal Thoughts are very typical when this hypomania gets out of hand.

If you have someone close to you that is able to tell you when it's too much, and you feel like you can trust them, I think it'd be safe to not take meds. But that is just my opinion, I am not a Doctor.

Take care

The only really bad thing I've done when hypo in the last few years is binge on drugs (not much of heavy drugs, but that too). I feel like I have control over my hypomania, but my depression is out of control. I like your opinion. It's more nuanced than my doctor's. (<-- a deceitful grin and two empty, soulless eyes that suck you in, now you're mine!)

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

First you need a dr. & t that you trust. you could lower your meds to see if there's a spot that keeps you feeling like you but takes "the edge" away. There are other medications if you don't like one find one your okay with.You haven't told us the symptoms that trouble you maybe we can help you deal with those.

Yes. Since you put it so clearly, I think you're right. Staying with this dr. & T is no good.
My symptoms are, broadly: Very serious and almost chronic atypical depression (I smile and laugh, so people think I'm fine, but I'm not really) that is incapacitating me. Most days I don't get out of bed other than to have a couple of cigarettes, coffee and one meal. I have rapid cycling which also tires me out , and have difficulties staying away from drugs when I'm hypo (which isn't that often, maybe > a day each week at the moment). I need to be left alone physically and I'm not intimate with my bf and I do not like to be hugged or touched. I have serious attachment issues & feelings of detachment and I'm very dependent on other people to function. When I make decisions on my own I often choose at random. Usually I just avoid all decisions and do nothing. I used to be very decisive and sure, and didn't mind physical contact or emotional bonding like I do now.

Originally Posted by ultramar

Hi Mandrec,

From what you say, it sounds like the ultrarapid episodes you were having were triggered by the citalopram you were taking and with taking Zyprexa it got better? If that was the principal cause, do you think not being on that antidepressant may mean no more episodes? Although you mention a hypomanic episode after that, I think. To what extent do the hypomania episodes bother you/interfere negatively in your life? If they're mild enough not to cause too many problems, might that tip the scale more towards not taking the Zyprexa you have such reservations about? Then again, it seems your psychiatrist wants you to take it.

I think it was you (please correct me if I'm wrong) who mentioned you were considering the possibility that some of your symptoms might be more due to BPD? I bring it up because although ultra-rapid cycling exists, of course, in Bipolar, also very rapid shifts in mood are pretty characteristic of BPD (including shifting to being hyper, etc.). Have you been able to figure out which might be more at play here? Or does it depend what's going on? I know it can be a difficult differential diagnosis.

I wish you the best of luck.

Hugs to you!

Hello! Yes, this is what happened: Citalopram triggered ultra-rapid cycling, and I'm not on it now. I still have ultra-rapid, it hasn't gone away, but zyprexa + lamictal took away the highest highs and lowest lows. It didn't make me less depressed, I think, just more stable depressed. Now I'm off both these pills and back to "normal", high functioning (I would say, anyway) though incapacitating roller coaster bipolar 2. I like it because it feels like me, even though it's hell. Zyprexa didn't feel like me. Maybe this is so important to me because I'm recovering from BPD and starting to figure out what identity means. About the hypomania, I said the important stuff in the post above I think. But yes, pdoc and T seem to think this is so serious that I need up to 10 mg zyprexa and 200 mg lamictal. 2,5 mg probably won't do much, as I've tried that once before.

No, that was someone else. I've figured it out and BPD feels very different. They're similar but also very different.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by genetic

(If the first thing they do is pour on the meds, be alert. You may
feel quite different on the second visit and the psychiatrist could easily
recognize that what appeared to be a serious state on the first visit
wasn't necessarily a typical one for you.)

There is risk of damage to the brain over a period of years if you go untreated. The risks for psychotic breaks are more severe in bipolar I, but the depressions of bipolar II are severe.

No, I've been in therapy for years. Three professionals have evaluated me and they all agreed that it is bipolar 2, and that it is not caused by drug abuse. It is probably not caused by diet either since I've had very varied diets from living different places at different times (parents, friends, bf's family, alone), but I will certainly try changing it again!

Yes, I think the psychotic break thing could be what my pdoc and T are afraid of. I'm sure that's not going to happen though. I have pseudohallucinations, but I know they're not real and it doesn't happen very often.

Thanks all! I hope maybe some of you will reply again to the new info I added, if you have time.

OK so I was thinking, and something struck me. I believe the main reason I don't want to take meds is that I fear for my soul. It sounds pretty whack maybe. I didn't use to believe in souls, but I feel certain that taking meds will damage mine.

Originally Posted by Mandrec

OK so I was thinking, and something struck me. I believe the main reason I don't want to take meds is that I fear for my soul. It sounds pretty whack maybe. I didn't use to believe in souls, but I feel certain that taking meds will damage mine.

________________________________________________

Maybe so; they certainly have the capacity to damage your physical
well-being if they are too much for the liver and kidneys to manage over
a long period. I think keeping them at the lowest effective dosage is
a good way to manage it.

[H0P3L3SS_1]

My symptoms are, broadly: Very serious and almost chronic atypical depression (I smile and laugh, so people think I'm fine, but I'm not really) that is incapacitating me. Most days I don't get out of bed other than to have a couple of cigarettes, coffee and one meal. I have rapid cycling which also tires me out , and have difficulties staying away from drugs when I'm hypo (which isn't that often, maybe > a day each week at the moment). I need to be left alone physically and I'm not intimate with my bf and I do not like to be hugged or touched. I have serious attachment issues & feelings of detachment and I'm very dependent on other people to function. When I make decisions on my own I often choose at random. Usually I just avoid all decisions and do nothing. I used to be very decisive and sure, and didn't mind physical contact or emotional bonding like I do now.

I could not have said this better. I feel like this is very close to my situation, but I have no diagnosis, no treatment, and no motivation to fix it. I made a post on here, just asking for advice. "new to this, looking for advice" But yeah. I just wanted to I guess say thank you for sharing this, and I really look forward to reading more posts from you. I would love to hear how you are dealing with everything. I feel the same way as you do about making decisions. I either ask my only good friend, or my parents. If neither of them will help me make the decision, then I avoid it until it gets made for me. Eventually the opportunity expires, or something has to be done. Either way, I rarely make a decision. I think that indecisiveness is part of the reason I haven't just gone to a doctor yet. I've been feelin so ****** for so long, yet am not doing anything about it. It frustrates me. But yet I continue to do nothing. I feel lazy, but then I just don't care. It seems easier to stay the same, then it does to try to change.

Anyhow, just yeah, I was very excited to see that someone on here feels very similar to what I do. I just felt the need to share that with you. Thanks again for this post. Made me feel a little less alone. If that makes sense

[ultramar]

[quote=Mandrec;2992671]Hello! Yes, this is what happened: Citalopram triggered ultra-rapid cycling, and I'm not on it now. I still have ultra-rapid, it hasn't gone away, but zyprexa + lamictal took away the highest highs and lowest lows. It didn't make me less depressed, I think, just more stable depressed. Now I'm off both these pills and back to "normal", high functioning (I would say, anyway) though incapacitating roller coaster bipolar 2. I like it because it feels like me, even though it's hell. Zyprexa didn't feel like me. Maybe this is so important to me because I'm recovering from BPD and starting to figure out what identity means. About the hypomania, I said the important stuff in the post above I think. But yes, pdoc and T seem to think this is so serious that I need up to 10 mg zyprexa and 200 mg lamictal. 2,5 mg probably won't do much, as I've tried that once before.

No, that was someone else. I've figured it out and BPD feels very different. They're similar but also very different.

Thank you!

Sorry I got you mixed up with someone else, Mandrec! It sounds like you're dealing with a great deal at once, I admire you for being able to sort out what is what. Good luck on deciding on the meds, it's so hard to balance out the pros and cons as there are so many factors involved and there's no guarantee that it will play out as one would hope. I'm not sure psychiatrists always appreciate how hard it is to deal with the side effects.

[Victoria'smom]

have difficulties staying away from drugs when I'm hypo

If you do choose drugs let trusted pdoc know this it effects which meds you can take safely.

I need to be left alone physically and I'm not intimate with my bf and I do not like to be hugged or touched.

Are you sure some of this has nothing to do with your medication?
If you do choose no meds. Would you be able/willing to do therapy more then 1x a week?

[ultramar]

Hi Mandrec,

I re-read your original post and I think I understand it a little better now, maybe this summary (if basically accurate) will be helpful:

It sounds like your main issue is depression and these meds, in the past, have not helped with that. Zyprexa helped to get you out of a manic episode triggered by an antidepressant, but you don't need it for that reason anymore, because you're no longer taking that antidepressant.

However, Zyprexa has helped you with hypomania/rapid cycling in and out of hypomania.

So, in sum, it sounds like nothing you've tried so far has helped with depression and Zyprexa has helped with hypomania. I guess, as someone else suggests, part of the decision will hinge on to what extent the hypomania negatively affects your life -if it's destructive enough to you and those around you to risk the side effects of Zyprexa. Not an easy decision to make.

Are you considering trying a different medication for depression?

On a different note, you wrote:


I told them "I have bipolar", and lately they told me "at first we didn't believe you had bipolar". So basically they didn't believe me and I see no reason why I should trust them.

And you seem to be considering switching providers because of this. But I'd point out that they said "they didn't believe you had bipolar," not that they didn't believe you. I think it's an important distinction. It doesn't mean they thought you were lying, just that they had a different opinion about your diagnosis. I think many clinicians prefer not to diagnose someone based on their self-diagnoses and prefer to put the pieces together themselves to come to a conclusion. For example, although I came to my current psychiatrist with a diagnosis of Bipolar I, he would not officially diagnose me until he himself had witnessed a manic episode. This makes sense to me. I think he was being careful, and keeping an open mind, on my behalf, and I respect him for that. So I personally don't think they're untrustworthy just based on what they said there.

Lastly,

I need to be left alone physically and I'm not intimate with my bf and I do not like to be hugged or touched. I have serious attachment issues & feelings of detachment and I'm very dependent on other people to function. When I make decisions on my own I often choose at random. Usually I just avoid all decisions and do nothing. I used to be very decisive and sure, and didn't mind physical contact or emotional bonding like I do now.

I think this may well not have to do with meds. Hopefully your therapist can help you with these relationship issues (or already is), it sounds like a very difficult place to be.

[cool09]

I'm bipolar II

Your psychiatrist diagnosed you with this? And the anti-depressant induced a manic episode? Studies show that 20% of BP patients experience mania when an anti-depressant is added. That's why some Doctors avoid prescribing ADs for BP patients. If this happened then your Dr. should take you off the AD and try something else.

You won't suffer any permanent brain damage or permanent side effects from newer psychotropic medications. There are only a few meds that have long-term permanent side effects like Topomax (tardive dyskinesia) which your Dr. should warn you of. And lithium should be monitored (for kidney function) if you take that.

Do you experience severe agitation? Because that's what zyprexa is used for. Zyprexa is not used to stabilize mania, it's an anti-psychotic.

Hello again and thanks for the replies! I've been in a mixed state that I don't know when started, but it ended yesterday with a depressed state. The last three days of that episode I was very hypomanic. I barely ate and I got a lot more paranoid. So I went to a friend and she said I should think about the people around me, and I think she's right. I need to make it easier for my boyfriend. So I am now on Zyprexa 2.5 mg and I'm going to see if that helps me much.

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

If you do choose drugs let trusted pdoc know this it effects which meds you can take safely.
Are you sure some of this has nothing to do with your medication?
If you do choose no meds. Would you be able/willing to do therapy more then 1x a week?

Yes, I will do that! As soon as I get a new pdoc! I have no idea why I'm like this, actually. I was fine with being intimate during the first 6 months with my boyfriend. I would definitely be willing, but my T says I should just go to rehab and he doesn't want to refer me to any therapy other than that. I know I can stop my addiction if I get the right help, but that would be help with my moods and mainly depression, not rehab. I've been to rehab, it made me want to try injecting stuff and it made me smoke almost twice as much weed. So I'm going to do what I know is good for me, not what my silly T says. If I can find a good place for therapy and make it work then I'd prefer that over meds.

Originally Posted by ultramar

Are you considering trying a different medication for depression?

On a different note, you wrote:

I told them "I have bipolar", and lately they told me "at first we didn't believe you had bipolar". So basically they didn't believe me and I see no reason why I should trust them.

And you seem to be considering switching providers because of this. But I'd point out that they said "they didn't believe you had bipolar," not that they didn't believe you. I think it's an important distinction. It doesn't mean they thought you were lying, just that they had a different opinion about your diagnosis. I think many clinicians prefer not to diagnose someone based on their self-diagnoses and prefer to put the pieces together themselves to come to a conclusion. For example, although I came to my current psychiatrist with a diagnosis of Bipolar I, he would not officially diagnose me until he himself had witnessed a manic episode. This makes sense to me. I think he was being careful, and keeping an open mind, on my behalf, and I respect him for that. So I personally don't think they're untrustworthy just based on what they said there.

Thank you for the summary! I read it a few days ago and it was helpful. Yes, I'm considering a new AD, but not until I get a pdoc that I can trust.

I get that they don't want to trust my self-diagnosis, but yes I am also angry that they would trust their own intuition about me over my years of knowledge about dealing with this and all the people I said they could call to confirm what I told them. I do not see how they could take me off my meds and not believe I had bp2, when I said it so very clearly, if they did not also believe I was lying.

Thank you for taking the time to write back and for the concern!

Originally Posted by cool09

Your psychiatrist diagnosed you with this? And the anti-depressant induced a manic episode? Studies show that 20% of BP patients experience mania when an anti-depressant is added. That's why some Doctors avoid prescribing ADs for BP patients. If this happened then your Dr. should take you off the AD and try something else.

You won't suffer any permanent brain damage or permanent side effects from newer psychotropic medications. There are only a few meds that have long-term permanent side effects like Topomax (tardive dyskinesia) which your Dr. should warn you of. And lithium should be monitored (for kidney function) if you take that.

Do you experience severe agitation? Because that's what zyprexa is used for. Zyprexa is not used to stabilize mania, it's an anti-psychotic.

Yes, but I don't know how manic I was. It probably couldn't have been classified as hypomania because there were psychotic symptoms, but I'm not sure. I stopped the AD myself and the doctor agreed with my decision. That's very good to hear! Phew! I hope I can find some good meds with few side-effects and few risks.

Yes I have a lot of agitation when I'm hypo or mixed. I googled this and found a research paper indicating that Zyprexa is just as and possibly even more effective than Lithium for stabilizing acute mania, so are you sure you are right about this? Several APs are used for mania.



My brain is fudge now so if this sounds cold and unappreciative I'm sorry. I'm really thankful for the help!