[lbrown1]

So I am 29, bipolar 2, mixed episodes, and I struggled through life without meds until the end of last year. I had my first ever suicide attempt during a severe mixed episode. Thats when I was introduced to my first psychiatrist, therapist, and quite a few different medications. I guess the meds working.. but I didnt 'feel' like the same person.. the person I had known my whole life.. the bipolar me. So a couple months later I stopped taking them.. Iv dealt with my episodes and cycling but I know eventually I am going to lose control. Im in my first hypo-mania/mania's since I quit taking the meds and I could kill myself.. I spent everydime I had saved for the last 8 months in just a week.. (it was quite a bit.. I had fun doing it but I know sooner or later Im gonna wanna kill myself for doin it.)
How can I not take the meds and not mess my life up at the same time?
I dont feel like I know myself at all when Im on the meds.. I dont like the 'normal' me. Ive been bipolar as long as I can remember, I think its unfair for my family to expect me to start being 'normal' now that im almost 30yrs old. Am I wrong? Is it possible for me to get ahold of myself and manage this with out meds? Im driving myself crazy wandering if im a complete idiot...

[Rosie23]

I am almost 50 years old and have been on my meds about 6 months.

I get what you are saying about being normal. It is a big adjustment and can be frustrating.
I personally miss some of the more productive portions of mania, but unfortunately you don't get to pick out the parts of this disorder you want to keep.

For me, I know the meds are the best route to go. But there are other people on this site who seems to be able to manage their BP without meds.

[Trippin2.0]

The truth is, idk. For some reason, when I was fed-up with my meds, I vowed to make it without, but I also had this conviction that I could... I just knew I could handle it, coz I handled it pretty darn well before, and I was SO determined... Getting them out of my system was a nightmare, but even tho I was cycling multiple times a day, and experiencing withdrawl, my conviction and determination never faded, and I'm SO glad I stuck it out, cos things got better after they got worse...
.
It's really a very personal decision, I don't think anybody's qualified to answer wether you CAN, only YOU know if you're capable...

[Living Well]

hey L,

there seems to be quite a bit of despair. (((hugs)))

I think you might need to identify what you want your life be like - and then stop at nothing to make it that way. No matter how distasteful, difficult, tiring, you will need to keep doing what works, what is the most effective for you to achieve your goals.

Only you know how you want your life to be and how to get it there, don't overthink it - just trust your gut and make it work.

Keep talking L - it's amazing how much clarity we can get for ourselves when expressing ourselves to others.

Big Hugs,

Jade xxx


Rosie's signature interests me so I hope you don't mine this aside:-


Rosie - offtopic - your signature caught my eye because today is ANZAC day in Australia and New Zealand. Today's the day each year we commemorate Winston Churchill's failed Gallipolli campaign in WWI which resulted in the deaths of 8141 Australian men with a further 26,111 wounded and deaths of 2431 New Zealand men and 7571 injured. The Turks suffered 66000 deaths and 218000 men injured. These deaths 76 572 deaths took place in just 8 months between 25 April 1915 and 20 December 1915 - and had no influence on the course of the war. WC's failure was fatal but many people believe, he learnt from Gallipolli and made much better war decisions as British PM during WW2.

[bipolarmedstudent]

I think it depends on the person and how severe their illness is. Also depends on how good your support system is. I would try phasing in alternate methods (therapy, exericise, diet, meditation, etc.) and wait until you have a strong routine of those before you start phasing out your meds. That way you will have a bunch of tools in place already when you hit a rough patch. I do think it's a little foolish to go off your meds if you haven't first figured out a system for dealing with your symptoms without meds.

I agree that you need a system in place, this is true if you are on meds too, but doubly important if you are not. Severity well.. I have bipolar 1 with psychosis Nos, pretty sure most people who hear my dx would think I need meds. My manic phases even on meds last a few months, I also get mixed moods that last months. Personality plays a role I believe here too, as well as severity, as well as insight. Things we choose to do while manic for example in part comes down to personality and other personal traits.

If you do want to try the med free route, and no one know if this is right for you, you should get a lot of tools and skills so that you are prepared to handle the ups and downs. There are so many things we can do to help ourselves. Like routine, sleep, nutrition, but there are also many other skills like mindfulness and meditation, yoga, perspective, ect ect...

I think if you want to be successful without meds it will take a lot of work and time building a system for you that works. But you won't be able to develop those things very well if you are dealing with such bad mood problems in the meantime.

...I am definitely working on it!

[bluematador]

I was diagnosed seven years ago and I was heavily medicated. I felt like a zombie. I quit my treatment and went back on the roller coaster ride. After a suicide attempt a year ago I went back on medication. This time I am using alternative therapies and low doses of medication. I feel more like myself this way. I have to strictly adhere to my alternative therapies to maintain my stability. I meditate, do yoga, exercise, take vitamins,eat a whole foods diet, and I don't eat sugar. I still have some hypomania and depression but it's more manageable and I prefer to deal with the difficulties as opposed to be being heavily medicated.

[lbrown1]

I wanted to say thank you, I think Im going to start getting the "tools" in order, I dont like the meds with exception to the anxiety med. I need to find a good therapist and ask my family for support considering how unfair my disease is to them. This roller coaster has been a thrill and a drag.. sometimes both at the same time. I want to manage this without losing everything again. I have furnished (everything from furniture to appliances, to towel n bed sheets) over 10 houses in 11 years. I loved being a 'free spirit' or 'lost soul' as my mom always called me (depending on my mood), but anymore It exhaust me and I want to feel like I 'belong' somewhere for the first time in my life. Please keep me in ur prayers while I try to work this out. Thanks, Lisa

[thedayturnedaround]

I know for myself (diagnosed bp for 10 years), and probably other people, it's a work in progress getting adjusted to the medication. But it's important if you are truly bipolar and especially with your history of suicidal behavior to stay in contact with your doctor and go with his prescribed advice. If you feel like the medications alter your behavior too much, maybe your doctor can make changes to the meds because there are usually several options.

In my case, when I took myself off my medications, I had psychotic episodes where I thought people were stealing and publishing my music through a famous band, in one instance, and in another instance began believing I had a brain implant monitored by the CIA and/or the military in addition to some bizarre behavior and violent mood swings.

When I was first diagnosed, it took me about a year to settle in to Lithium as the most effective treatment at the time (until I had too severe digestive problems from it). I started with Depakote and Zyprexa and every time I took Zyprexa I was very depressed, which I still struggle with but not to the extent of while I was on that medication. Eventually I found psychiatrists who would take me off Zyprexa and now I take Risperdal and it's working well.

I hope to offer you some support in having been on and off medications and I think it's best to stay with medication until you find what works and don't do anything drastic like take yourself off because relapsing into symptoms can be worse than before.

[Trippin2.0]

Praying for your Lisa

[Alcinus_of_chell]

Originally Posted by lbrown1

Is it possible for me to get ahold of myself and manage this with out meds? .

Is it possible for you? Maybe
Is it possible for someone to do? Yeah, I did.
Most people use therapy or alternative meds/placebos as a frame and build on that.
I didn't, I crushed what little of a personality I had after 4(+) months solid depression (topping long depressive trend) left me a burnt out shell and built a new one with only a superficial resemblance to the old one. It mostly worked, but Currently what I did to myself (and what I gave up (starting with what you'd call morality)) to beat this is my single biggest trigger for depression, so I wouldn't recommend you try it.

[Living Well]

Originally Posted by lbrown1

Please keep me in ur prayers while I try to work this out. Thanks, Lisa

I definitely will Lisa and I have true confidence in you. Remember, one good decision in front of the another, you will get to where you need to be - and "baby step" change is much more sustainable than attempting massive change in a short amount of time.

We are here to support you and give you ideas when you ask for them, each step of the way.

Look after you - you deserve it!

[fergus]

I feel better on the meds I'm on now lithium and seroquel. What I've found interesting though is I feel better on these 2 meds then the 5 or 6 I used to take at one time.

My new pdoc uses an approach that I like. He starts me on a very low dosage of medication and tells me to slowly increase the dosage until I feel the effect. The goal being to feel better with as little medication as possible. I'm on a small almost sub-therapeutic level of lithium because anymore than this and I feel tired and cloudy all the time.

If you don't feel yourself it might be the type or amount of medication you are taking. Personally I also find exercise and low caffeine/sugar diet helpful.

What I still hate though is most medication does an amazing job at controlling mania but no so good job at depression. It leaves you depressed most of the time with no mania in between to cheer you up.

[Living Well]

Originally Posted by fergus

I feel better on the meds I'm on now lithium and seroquel. What I've found interesting though is I feel better on these 2 meds then the 5 or 6 I used to take at one time.

My new pdoc uses an approach that I like. He starts me on a very low dosage of medication and tells me to slowly increase the dosage until I feel the effect. The goal being to feel better with as little medication as possible. I'm on a small almost sub-therapeutic level of lithium because anymore than this and I feel tired and cloudy all the time.

If you don't feel yourself it might be the type or amount of medication you are taking. Personally I also find exercise and low caffeine/sugar diet helpful.

What I still hate though is most medication does an amazing job at controlling mania but no so good job at depression. It leaves you depressed most of the time with no mania in between to cheer you up.

I benefitted from your post fergus - my pdoc and I are considering trying to simplify my meg regime - and although we are all different, your experience make me feel a little more courageous. Just out of interest what type of lithium are you on and what is the maximum dose before you run into the "tired and cloudy"?

It has been my experience too that, taking away the hypermania has obliterated basic functioning for months on end. Before taking away the hypomania, I didn't even think my hypermania was hypermania because it was such a relief to be able to do all those things I had needed to get done for so long. I thought I was in normal mood and merely catching up on things.

Anyhoo, to not let the thread get off track. Is it possible for me to manage bipolar without meds? For me personally - not a snowballs chance in hell. I have an extremely aggressive case of bipolar. Can someone else? I think only if their symptoms are mild and they make lifestyle decisions consistent with bipolar management. - early to bed, early to rise, no sugar, no alcohol, no caffeine, an hour a day moderate exercise, meditation, yoga, cognitive therapy. I think a good support network, and having no trauma issues makes the 'no-med' option, more viable.

Even though I will never be in that bracket, I would like to hear more from people with mild symptoms who do bring symptoms under control with good lifestyle decisions. I'm always happy to hear any way to tweak my lifestyle/cognitive regime, just as I am, my med regime.

Cheers,

Jade

I do manage my bipolar symptoms quite well, I do not have mild symptoms tho so I'm not sure if I still even count. I do have trauma issues, but I have worked really hard on my issues and have healed pretty well.

I watch my nutrition, I'm not one for lots of sugar either, I do not drink alcohol or any other drugs. I do yoga 6 days a week most weeks. I do 90 minutes of Bikram 4 days a week and the other days I do vinyasa yoga at home. I practice mindfulness, well that's more a change in thinking that becomes more apart of your everyday life, I practice meditation also. I also snowboard and bike and a few other things for exercise. I keep my perspective and outlook in check, that's just a daily habit. Insight is also a huge component, especially when you are dealing with psychosis. Ok so, I may not have a mild case, but I have never been a danger to myself or others since I have been a teen, and a lot of that for myself comes from lifestyle choices, and heavy convictions from my teen years. There are a lot of things to consider, lifestyle being one, and personal traits is another too, we overlook it but it's still there. And these are things we can choose to work on. Determination and focus... The list is endless..

So I have bipolar 1 with psychotic features. But you know what, since I have made lots of positive changes to my lifestyle and to my ways of thinking, I have not had anymore bad mood episodes. Which before when I was on lots of meds, was still out of control. My behavior wasn't, but i was also not functioning very well at all. I am still on lithium, but that's a far cry from the 6 meds I was on. This is the most stable I have ever been, and I will not give up doing the work it takes to sustain it.

When I was on lots of meds, my cycles still lasted a really long time, manic for months despite meds, same with depression. I know at least for myself that my steps to take care of my wellness outside of meds has made the biggest improvement. I am obviously still on lithium, but it's something I can live with, I feel like my life has been renewed. O do plan on getting off lithium in the future, but I think I will know when I am ready for that step.

[fergus]

Originally Posted by Living Well

I benefitted from your post fergus - my pdoc and I are considering trying to simplify my meg regime - and although we are all different, your experience make me feel a little more courageous. Just out of interest what type of lithium are you on and what is the maximum dose before you run into the "tired and cloudy"?

I'm on PMS-Lithium Carbonate and right now I only take 600mg which is really sub-therapeutic but it works for me. If I take 900mg I start to get the hand jitters and get sluggish, 1200 mg is what I started on and people would really notice my hand shake when I picked up a glass and I felt like sleeping an hour after I woke up and really needed a nap in the afternoon. I would fall asleep on the couch around 7pm and finally go to bed around 8pm.
I have a more anxious irritable bipolar and seroquel XR does a good job for me. I have 50mg pills, I'm on 150mg now but can go up to 300mg if I feel I need it.

I also think not all of us need to be on the same dosage all year round. I know Nov-Feb are key times for depression and I can get a high in the Spring. In the middle of the warm bright summer I usually don't need the same amount medication.

[Direction]

I believe it is possible to be med free...things that I would think would be helpful

1. Find a p-doc who believes in managing bipolar without meds
2. Find a therapist that supports med-free and specializes in cognitive behavior therapy
3. Complete a Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP) to better understand your symptoms and what action plans you can take when symptoms ramp up.
4. Find an intensive program that uses individual one-on-one time and small groups to learn and practice various skills

It takes much work...it can be done!

[Waterpumpkin]

I went off my meds a few times and my psych taught me a lesson by not prescribing anything when I came crawling
Back for meds. He just said, "I'll see you in two weeks."
That was hell for me. I vowed to never do it again.

[Pamalooney]

I would like to try alternatives at some point. Right now it scares me to even think of being without my meds.

We are all different. If you have someone very close to you, maybe they could help you monitor how you are. I wouldn't try it alone or without my doctor's approval.

Good Luck to you!!!

[Living Well]

Originally Posted by fergus

I'm on PMS-Lithium Carbonate and right now I only take 600mg which is really sub-therapeutic but it works for me. If I take 900mg I start to get the hand jitters and get sluggish, 1200 mg is what I started on and people would really notice my hand shake when I picked up a glass and I felt like sleeping an hour after I woke up and really needed a nap in the afternoon. I would fall asleep on the couch around 7pm and finally go to bed around 8pm.
I have a more anxious irritable bipolar and seroquel XR does a good job for me. I have 50mg pills, I'm on 150mg now but can go up to 300mg if I feel I need it.

I also think not all of us need to be on the same dosage all year round. I know Nov-Feb are key times for depression and I can get a high in the Spring. In the middle of the warm bright summer I usually don't need the same amount medication.

I have kidney and liver issues. I started a trial of 375mg lith standard in the past week but my kidneys aren't keeping up and I'm starting to get delirious. Sero works a treat for me too. I get muscle twitches/spasms and ravenous appetite though. I'm on 50mg. (I won't talk any more about it here as this is a "whether is it possible to manage bipolar without meds" not a "metabolism and side effects" med thread).

I hope the responses are helping your find what might work for you Lisa. Big Hugs, Jade

[greylove]

I was diagnosed late in life with Bipolar 1. I had mania, depression, psychosis, delusions, and hallucinations; the whole nine yards. I was prescribed Lithium and Ability originally and both gave me severe side effects. My psychiatrist is very conservative (which I like alot) and put me on 200 mg of Lamictal and 300 mg of Seroquel. I've been able to reduce the Seroquel to 25 mg under supervision and without any problems. Sometimes I think I would really like to go off the Lamictal but I know I won't. I wonder if I could hold my own but the price to pay could be very steep. I feel like myself now. I'm not groggy or drugged in the morning and don't feel medicated the rest of the day either. I think my drug combination and dosage is as close to being med-free as possible and yes, long story short, I think it's possible to manage a less severe case of Bipolar without meds. I would reccommend following all the advice given above and let your pdoc help you make the decision.

[Moose72]

I would have many more episodes without meds. And they get worse the more you have.

[Moose72]

Originally Posted by Waterpumpkin

I went off my meds a few times and my psych taught me a lesson by not prescribing anything when I came crawling
Back for meds. He just said, "I'll see you in two weeks."
That was hell for me. I vowed to never do it again.

Did you end up in the psych ER? I'm surprised he could be allowed to do that.

[Clinte89]

I think I'm gonna go off mine soon. F it I'm tired of them so well see.