[Icare dixit]

Does anyone have a fear for the absence of mania? It's basically some form of perfectionism.

Anything I do when (more or less, controlled or rampantly) manic (and it is increasingly the case that I can only do things when more or less manic), I have difficulty continuing when not manic (worse when depressed), because I fear the absence of (some) mania will reflect badly on my work.

I also fear mania, but not nearly as much as the absence of mania.

I do increasingly more when manic compared to other times, so it get increasingly worse. I am stuck. When I have successfully eased and fought depression, I am still stuck. Self-sabotage doesn't help.

The only thing that would help is a worsening of symptoms, but it can't get that much worse. So I try to gradually lessen symptoms by simulating/eliciting/inducing symptoms. But I sabotage that.

I don't get hypomanic (not anymore, has been many years).

I start to think a continuous (mild) mixed state might be best.

So another question: any advice? I don't mind being alone in this: it is quite horrible. Being stuck (and torn) when stable is horrible. I am not yet completely stuck, also still depressed in the morning and evening, but I feel like I am in an increasingly confined space. Not a dark prison or a prison (or open space) with too much light. A prison of glass.

[BipolarMama31]

Sorry no advice to give here. But wanted to comment and say i feel the same way and i feel comfort in knowing im not alone.
Thank you for posting.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by BipolarMama31

Sorry no advice to give here. But wanted to comment and say i feel the same way and i feel comfort in knowing im not alone.
Thank you for posting.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Thank you for the same.

[MusicLover82]

I fear mania, because once when I was truly manic (with psychosis) due to being on a high dose of steroids and being mistreated my my GP, I had to be hospitalized. Being out of touch with reality was truly terrifying for me.

My hypomania is rarely delightful. It is often dysphoric/mixed. :-P I don't like feeling "crazy," so I take a Bee Pollen supplement to even that stuff out.

When my hypomania IS delightful, I want to stay in it as long as I can. I sometimes feel tempted to drink a little more caffeine, hoping to make it last longer (it doesn't usually last long because I'm pretty stable on meds).

Your definition of stability sounds like my definition of "mild depression." That doesn't sound very comfortable. I get mild depression on and off and I feel the "stuck" feeling you mentioned. My mild depression often is accompanied by anxiety and obsessive thoughts. What helps me is my NAC supplement (3,000 mg a day) and high doses of caffeine. Mine seems to come and go monthly with hormones.

No idea if that helps, but I just thought I'd give you my perspective.

Diagnoses: Bipolar 2, OCD, GAD
Meds: Lithium, Trileptal, Latuda, Risperdal, Xanax XR and PRN

[smallwonderer]

No advice to give here except to say my depression really only sucks after mania. I live through mild depression myself - things I think are normal score on the beck depression inventory as mildly depressed nearly or just subthreshold. What I will say and I almost posted this in response to I think apfei's post about self-control:

For my personality, at least, which is not everyone's - seeing myself accomplish something makes me want to accomplish more. I don't feel in retrospect that I am more able to do things when manic. I do feel more unable to do things when depressed. I think that manic 'can do' feeling is fleeting/misleading compared to real motivation and drive. What helps me when I can't accomplish things or think I can't accomplish things is just to make things simple enough that I can see measurable progress. Seeing that progress improves my mood and makes me able to do more. During my last black depression (which came after my last manic episode), what pulled me out was this app called 'trello' where you can make todo lists and check things off. My brain said "this is too much" and "I can't do anything! I'm useless!" but I just slowly started checking things off, even when my black depression hadn't lifted, I had still done that one thing. I see no purpose (but still do it) in indulging "I can't do anything" when feeling depressed. It's counterproductive. Even if I start the day sad, I just do something. I have found it easier and easier to work past the low feelings the more they do come as you mention - you know that it's going to happen, so it's not something to be scared of. Just expect it will pass at some pt.

Anyway, maybe useless advice because I do not any longer believe that mania helps me get anything done so my experience of bipolar may be different than most.

[Icare dixit]

In reply to MusicLover82's post:

When mildly depressed or stable, I can function (theoretically), but within certain parameters. I can't touch what I took up/on during mania, whether I did a good job at it or not (I think I did, even if it was with difficulty due to mania). I do more (at least different things) when manic than when not, also because of this causing more mild depression, as you mostly correctly assumed, so this gets worse.

Then there is a self-sabotaging which doesn't "allow" me mania because I know it works best (not good but best). It's ridiculous.

It's honestly gets more and more a bit of a catatonic quality to it (not really influencing my freedom of movement literally, but figuratively). Like a bunny looking in the headlights of a rapidly approaching car. I just hope that at one time in my life I realise I can move.

It's not anxiety. It's really an inability coupled with (hopefully just near) destructibility.

Maybe you could best describe it as part of something "schizo" as well as "affective" (I do have schizomania, schizoaffective disorder, so it could be), I don't know. Maybe chiefly borderline, I don't know (I think it's less likely). It's just challenging to say the least.

But thanks for your story. I use NAC as well. I hope to replace all meds with supplements. Maybe someday.

[Icare dixit]

smallwonderer, you're completely right: I should probably believe that, about mania, about getting things done. But I don't, ever. I do get things done, but when I continue with it more or less manic, I can only touch it again being (at least as) manic.

I have too strong beliefs generally, chronically. It doesn't have to make sense. It's psychotic, but it is. That's why I compared it to catatonia.

Even if it were just severe anxiety, but definitely if it were just a more normal belief, I could have some confidence to overcome it. I keep hope, but as it is, nothing has really been there to justify that. Just my more religious beliefs.

Thanks for your story and advice.

[smallwonderer]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

smallwonderer, you're completely right: I should probably believe that, about mania, about getting things done. But I don't, ever. I do get things done, but when I continued with more or less manic, I can only touch it again being (at least as) manic.

I have too strong beliefs generally, chronically. It doesn't have to make sense. It's psychotic, but it is. That's why I compared it to catatonia.

Even if it were just severe anxiety, but definitely if it were just a more normal belief, I could have some confidence to overcome it. I keep hope, but as it is, nothing has really been there to justify that. Just my more religious beliefs.

Thanks for your story and advice.

There was a 'one weird thing about me' thread awhile back I don't think I participated in. My weird thing is I work 80-90 hrs/week (12hr daysx7 plus or minus a little extra). It's drudgery, but I find it manageable. Of course, in that time, I still lurk on here, do other things too so debatable how much work is getting done I suppose. I sleep on average 7-8 hrs/night so I am not doing much besides work. If I were manic, I'd think it was like walking on a cloud probably would push that to 100-110+ hrs and think I was accomplishing a lot while sleeping 2-3hrs a night. When I'm experiencing a depressive phase, I work 40-60 hrs/week and it feels absolutely miserable and neverending. If I were comparing the 40-60 misery to the 100+ walking on a cloud, I'd miss the 100+ walking on a cloud. Numbers in another profession besides mine may vary... just saying the middle isn't so bad if you can find it for yourself.

[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by smallwonderer

There was a 'one weird thing about me' thread awhile back I don't think I participated in. My weird thing is I work 80-90 hrs/week (12hr daysx7 plus or minus a little extra). It's drudgery, but I find it manageable. Of course, in that time, I still lurk on here, do other things too so debatable how much work is getting done I suppose. I sleep on average 7-8 hrs/night so I am not doing much besides work. If I were manic, I'd think it was like walking on a cloud probably would push that to 100-110+ hrs and think I was accomplishing a lot while sleeping 2-3hrs a night. When I'm experiencing a depressive phase, I work 40-60 hrs/week and it feels absolutely miserable and neverending. If I were comparing the 40-60 misery to the 100+ walking on a cloud, I'd miss the 100+ walking on a cloud. Numbers in another profession besides mine may vary... just saying the middle isn't so bad if you can find it for yourself.

It makes perfect sense. I just don't truly believe it as much as other, let's call them, delusions. If strong beliefs that make functioning difficult or (in some ways) impossible are delusions, psychotic, that's what these are. And they are.

I still think the comparison with catatonia is a rather good one: you believe you can't move (if you are aware), so you can't. Until you can. I hope it's like that: at one point I discover I can just move (problem with catatonia is that freedom of movement can be momentarily: you just keep on believing what you just disproved!).

The thing is: it's getting worse. I still do a lot of work, but it becomes more difficult since I manage to focus and concentrate better (during mania and depression; together with the other things I explained).

I fear ending up (more and just; disorganised) SZ without the severe mania and depression, strange as it may sound, mostly without a (relatively slowly alternating and continuous) mixed state.

I see to possible options: better antipsychotics or more instability (with all changes in perception and beliefs: "full" affective psychosis). In the latter scenario, I would very gradually want to reduce the instability, "claiming back" more and more of it for myself, being (relatively) stable. Now it's just too much.

Maybe a combination. Maybe something completely different.

[Icare dixit]

And it also is sometimes like that momentary freedom of movement, frighteningly exactly like it, but really just that: momentarily. It's insane (obviously).

Thanks for the encouragement to go on with determination and hard work. I hope just more of that might help. At least I should get a prize for effort, I hope.

[Icare dixit]

Ironic how it seems more hopeless, but feels less hopeless, than depression. Funny almost. If it weren't so.

The power of (some) SZ. But is it a downfall?

For today, I give up.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

[Bipolarchic14]

Media makes you feel on top of the world until it doesn't. I can see your fear in the absence of it. Makes you realize how boring life can be when compared.