[IntentOnHealing]

***in place of one mis-titled***

I had something distressing and depressing happen yesterday. I found out my friend Amanda does in fact know about my manic indiscretion with her "baby daddy"; of course I also found out she is not speaking to me, a cutting off I had hoped wouldn't happen, the indiscretion something I had hoped she was unaware of.

But nope. On and on it goes. I continue to discover my losses in layers. I continue to struggle with guilt and shame. I continue to be forced into learning to apply coping skills I don't really think I have even developed yet. I continue to get knocked on my butt every time something reminds me of something hurtful I did when extremely ill this last time manic, some memory is uncovered, something dreadful I have to try and work through is put in front of me, even if only in my own mind, for certainly it is unforgivable in the mind of others and therefore isn't anything to be worked through at all by them: it is simply, painfully, and sometimes stubbornly what it is: Julie's hatefully immoral and purposefully, chosen action. Something to eternally despise her for. Something to cut her off for. Something that demonstrates her true character, that slut.

Every time I look out my front door and see their house I am reminded of these things, the loss especially sharp, for my Amanda was my best neighborhood gal-pal. And OF COURSE she cut me off! Who wouldn't? But there are others whose situations with me aren't even remotely close to this who have made the same judgments, and it stings. A lot.

I have broken myself by bringing this up, dammit. There were so many other things I wanted to talk about, other threads I wanted to explore. But I can't right now. I'm sorry. Is it selfish to need so much comfort and support from you? To run and hide once the truth is out?

[Standup2me]

You're not alone. We all feel pain, and a sense of emptiness. I wish that I had words to comfort you, but I don't
Just know that we don't judge here

[dshantel]

(((((((hug)))))))

[IntentOnHealing]

Thank you both so much

I've done messed up things and lost friends because of it, for sure. I've had intense shame because of it too. It's not good for your mental well-being to be labeled a monster and rejected. We all need a sense of community and belonging. I guess the only thing I can say is every human being at some point does something messed up to another human being. The people that are judging you are being self-righteous. They probably have their skeletons too. I guess maybe just forgive them. Shame about what other people see you as serves no real good purpose, and I guess it takes effort to stop caring so much about what people think of you. Everyone in this life will have enemies, it's not possible to please everyone. Just gotta build a support network of people that love you and forgive you for your mistakes. They'll make up for the people who don't. Remorse can be a motivator for change, I guess. That's what stopped me from being abusive toward my family. I felt so bad about it that I eventually stopped. So I guess I would say maybe let the remorse help keep you from doing it again, but don't let it fester in you and destroy your happiness.

[xRavenx]

Sending you hugs

[IntentOnHealing]

Originally Posted by Savannahbug123

I've done messed up things and lost friends because of it, for sure. I've had intense shame because of it too. It's not good for your mental well-being to be labeled a monster and rejected. We all need a sense of community and belonging. I guess the only thing I can say is every human being at some point does something messed up to another human being. The people that are judging you are being self-righteous. They probably have their skeletons too. I guess maybe just forgive them. Shame about what other people see you as serves no real good purpose, and I guess it takes effort to stop caring so much about what people think of you. Everyone in this life will have enemies, it's not possible to please everyone. Just gotta build a support network of people that love you and forgive you for your mistakes. They'll make up for the people who don't. Remorse can be a motivator for change, I guess. That's what stopped me from being abusive toward my family. I felt so bad about it that I eventually stopped. So I guess I would say maybe let the remorse help keep you from doing it again, but don't let it fester in you and destroy your happiness.

thank you so much for your compassionate reply. I have not been able to flesh this out with anyone.

In some ways, I do feel so much less like beating myself with a sharp stick since I put this out there. I feel also feel somewhat less anxious now that I know that she knows.

And I love that you said, "Maybe just forgive them." Especially since, in this situation, I can TOTALLY see her never forgiving ME. And I don't think that's an entirely unreasonable response. She understands what I've done as BETRAYAL. Who wouldn't? And being that she still lives with him, that probably means I'm the bigger target for her rage, hurt, etc. It has to go somewhere. Know what I mean?

It's almost 80 degrees here in Wisconsin today. The windows are open for the first time all year. I can here her outside with her two youngest girls. The sounds of Big Wheels on concrete, their giggles, like a stake in the heart. I have to stay OUT of the front room, in a corner of the dining room. Hearing them is awful. Seeing them would be unbearable.

It's killing me that she will likely never again holler, "Julie! Come on over!" from across the street. It's killing me that I will never get to hold her new baby, due sometime in the next four weeks, I'm guessing. I don't even know if it's a boy or a girl.

I want to write to her, explain to her that this was never about betraying her, it was about being mentally ill, and high, and 17-shots-in-five-hours drunk. I want to tell her that none of that excuses what I've done--how could it?--even if it does explain it a tiny little bit, and I'm so sorry for how I've hurt her.

But how do say all that without it somehow coming around to having to explain how her boyfriend literally dragged me back there, where we did it? How do I explain how I couldn't have resisted him if I had wanted to, which at the time? I. did. not.

How do I explain, our friendship mattered not one bit in that moment?
How do I take responsibility for what I've done, even while a really honest part of me screams, "IWasSickIWasSickIWasSickIWasSickIWasSickIWasSick!"
How do I just tell her what she deserves to hear as someone who has been so. horribly. wronged.

She made herself so vulnerable to me. She sat on my back patio in tears just a month maybe before this happened, trying to explain her life, finally crying, "I need a mom! I've never had anyone I could trust."

I told her she could trust me.

How do I anything?

Oh honey I'm so so sorry. All I have to say is that I've been there; and this sounds like assault to me. I am so sorry and your post really made me tear up. You are not alone and deserve all the compassion in the world.

It might help to call a hotline...
https://www.rainn.org/about-national...ephone-hotline

1-800-656-4673

[bioChE]

You really care about this friendship. Is there any way you can get her away from her kids/responsibilities for a few minutes and explain how much regret you have, and how much you want to continue being her friend? The situation is compounded by the fact that you're neighbors. If it was anyone else, it would be easier to just move on and leave the relationship. The fact is however, that you can't always hide out in the corner of your dining room so you don't see each other. You'll be outside this summer - they will be outside this summer. There's no avoiding the inevitable. You still have to be neighbors.

The thing is, it may end up from her side that she never wants to see you or have anything to do with you again. In your mind, that is the current situation and therefore you have nothing to lose by trying to talk with her. She may scream, throw things, hit you, whatever. All that is her right, you did fu.ck her man. She may never forgive you for that, and you've already accepted that. You are presently in the worst possible situation and have to live with your regret. She has to live with the betrayal. Those are things that may never go away, regardless of your relationship going forward. She is also dealing with it from two sides - she has to live with the fact that her man fu.cked you.

That being said, the only possible thing that can happen is for things to get better. Those wounds will always be there. The fact is though, there is the possibility for things to slowly scar over. They'll never heal completely, but they will diminish in importance as time goes on. Unless you have any designs on her man, she may be willing to be at least social with you for a while. It could start with a "hello" across the street, or you could have that serious discussion.

Things will get better. The healing starts with the distance that time from the incident permits. Since you're not in communication with her, you don't know what she's thinking and feeling - and don't take things said in the heat of the moment when she found out as gospel, since now she's had time to think and process the situation.

I'd suggest you live your life to the best of your abilities. Stay far, far away from any situation which could even hint that a similar situation could occur - don't take shots and go over to her yard when her guy is around.......you get my drift. I'm sorry you're in pain. Time will help. Talking helps. And we are here to help as much as possible. I wish you the best.

[bioChE]

By the way, it's not assault if she didn't want to stop. It could help to talk to someone, but turning toward a victim mentality isn't at all helpful.

"But how do say all that without it somehow coming around to having to explain how her boyfriend literally dragged me back there, where we did it? How do I explain how I couldn't have resisted him if I had wanted to, which at the time? I. did. not"

Maybe not assault, but not full consent.

[bioChE]

It's critical to define terms correctly in these types of situations.

Per Wikipedia, the Source of All Knowledge:

In the United States, the definition of sexual assault varies widely between the individual states. The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network defines sexual assault as "unwanted sexual contact that stops short of rape or attempted rape. This includes sexual touching and fondling."[3]

The National Center for Victims of Crime states:[4]

“Sexual assault takes many forms including attacks such as rape or attempted rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact or threats. Usually a sexual assault occurs when someone touches any part of another person's body in a sexual way, even through clothes, without that person's consent.”

Neither of these definitions apply to this situation.

Consent:

"In common speech, consent occurs when one person voluntarily agrees to the proposal or desires of another.[1] The concept of consent has been operationalized in several major contexts, including in law, medicine and sexual relationships. Types of consent include implied consent, expressed consent, informed consent and unanimous consent. Consent as understood in legal contexts may differ from the everyday meaning. For example, a person with a mental disorder, one with a low mental age or one under the legal age of sexual consent may willingly engage in a sexual act, but that consent is not valid in a legal context."

In this case, based on what she has said, this would probably be interpreted by the guy as consent. The last part of that definition addresses someone with a mental disorder; and in her case if she was manic it wouldn't have been defined as consent on her part. That being said, unless he had full knowledge of her disorder and state of mind after being high and having seventeen shots (both of them hammered), there's no way for him to bear "fault" for what happened.

IMHO, the guy is a hoser - for lack of a better term. If he was willing to fu.ck his girlfriend's friend/neighbor, then the gf should hold him fully responsible. There's culpability on both sides, and since he is still living there/in the relationship, it's likely the pair have labeled their neighbor as the offender and made up between themselves.

Rough situation, all around. There are things about which I wish I could turn back the clock, but that's simply not possible. The only hope is to look toward future possibilities.

I hope you're able to heal the relationship. Sorry you're in so much pain.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Some people process rage and hurt by shutting the person they're upset with out of their lives. My friend Jenny did that to me. I can completely relate. She cut off our friendship after I had a psychotic break and did a bunch of messed up stuff. The worst thing is that she remained friends with my mother, and she cut me out of her life right before she had her baby. I sometimes get really sad and miss her and want to see how she's doing, so I'll go to her Facebook page, and I see pictures of her with her baby and having a great time in life, and I just grieve that I never got to be part of her having her first baby and the rest of her life.

I tried writing to her and apologizing, but she ignored it. Didn't respond.

17 shots in five hours is a lot, at that point I'd be in a blackout, and there's no way to control what you're doing in that state of mind. I was a heroin addict and alcoholic for a long time, and I've definitely been 17 shots in an hour drunk before, and in a blackout, and I would wake up the next day in horror at what I was told I'd done. Lost a friend over a blackout episode that involved hitting on her boyfriend. It's awful, I'm so sorry I messed up so many relationships in my life and lost so many friends and it caused me so much agony that that's what eventually drove me to quit heroin and alcohol. I've tried to make amends to people I've wronged in my past, and some have forgiven me, some have not. It hurts to be unforgiven by loved ones I'm a religious person (Christian) and I guess I get my comfort from my God's forgiving nature, his inclination to overlook the worst of wrongs and welcome back the "scumbags", as society would call them, as dearly beloved sons and daughters who made mistakes, and love them and heal them from their past wreckage. Not trying to bug anyone by mentioning God, I know it's a touchy subject for many people. Just sharing what's helped me.

The fact that you're so deeply sorry for what you've done, shows that you're not a terrible person. A lot of people don't really give a second thought to what they've done to others.

I wrote this apology letter to someone recently, and they forgave me:

Hello, this is Savannah. You don't have to respond to this, but this has been weighing on me for some time. I just wanted to say that I am so, so sorry for what I did to your family and what I said last year. God only knows how deeply you have all been hurt by my actions and words. I wish I could go back and undo everything, and all I could think of to make things right was deleting that blog I made and everything I posted online. I was hypocritical and accusing, I slandered you and your family, I was hateful, and I was so wrong. I just wanted to say that I think you are all wonderful people, and I'm sorry for what I said and did. You don't have to respond, but I'd like to ask for your forgiveness. Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope you and your family are all well.

That's all I could really think of to say to them, but they forgave me, which healed my heart. I guess just writing a letter saying you were wrong, admitting what you did, pouring your heart out about how genuinely sorry you are, asking if there's anything you could possibly do to make it right, and asking for their forgiveness is an idea?

Oh man, I know the pain of saying "You can trust me" then betraying someone afterward It's one of the worst feelings in the world. I guess all I can say is despite our best intentions we all have issues, every one of us, that cause us to fail at holding up our own moral standards. No one is perfect, not a single one of us. We all need forgiveness.

I'm so sorry you're in such terrible agony Please hold on, the healing will come as you work through this. Glad you're on here reaching out for help, and I'll keep you in my prayers. Big hugs

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[IntentOnHealing]

Originally Posted by jupiter3

Oh honey I'm so so sorry. All I have to say is that I've been there; and this sounds like assault to me. I am so sorry and your post really made me tear up. You are not alone and deserve all the compassion in the world.

Thank you so much. I think it is really hard--and sometimes impossible--for people to understand that what we really do need is to feel like we are not alone, and that others do have something for us besides scorn. And that the thing is compassion. That's what I needed and still need.

But I don't know if I can call this assault. Maybe I used the wrong word. I'm not sure. I said he "dragged" me back there, which is true. He had me by the arm, and was pulling me. But the word "dragged" might imply that I was resisting. And I wasn't. He had me by the arm and pulled me up his drive, yes, but I never said, "No," and my feet were moving too.

And when I say "I couldn't have resisted if I had wanted to," doesn't that point out that in order for you to be assaulted, you have to resist?

[IntentOnHealing]

Originally Posted by bioChE

You really care about this friendship. Is there any way you can get her away from her kids/responsibilities for a few minutes and explain how much regret you have, and how much you want to continue being her friend?

You are presently in the worst possible situation and have to live with your regret. She has to live with the betrayal. Those are things that may never go away, regardless of your relationship going forward. She is also dealing with it from two sides - she has to live with the fact that her man fu.cked you.

That being said, the only possible thing that can happen is for things to get better.

There's so much in here that is helpful to me.

I have never thought about the fact that she and I are already in the worst place we could be in. That actually does make it better. My brain isn't working enough for me to understand or explain how, but it's the truth.

I have thought about how she has this situation coming at her from two sides: not only did her friend betray her, but so did her man. I have thought a lot about that. I think that's the worst part of it for me. To know that I hurt and betrayed her. And to feel the shame of how I did that.

I have been thinking about communicating with her, but not verbally. I thought if I wrote to her, I would have a better chance of giving her what she deserves (sincere apology, recognition for what she's going through, etc.) while giving me the greatest chance of being heard (if the only thing I give here in those words is, again, sincere apology, etc). I certainly don't want to excuse my actions based on the facts of mania and drink. But I do want her to know that I never would have done these things if I hadn't been manic.

Sigh...

I am actually not a drinker at all. Never more than one glass, and that one is very, very rare. Only when manic. Then I am a fish.

[IntentOnHealing]

Originally Posted by IntentOnHealing

There's so much in here that is helpful to me.

I have never thought about the fact that she and I are already in the worst place we could be in. That actually does make it better. My brain isn't working enough for me to understand or explain how, but I know it's the truth.

I have thought about how she has this situation coming at her from two sides: not only did her friend betray her, but so did her man. I have thought a lot about that. I think that's the worst part of it for me. To know that I hurt and betrayed her in cooperation with her hoser man. And to feel the shame of how I did that.

I have been thinking about communicating with her, but not verbally. I thought if I wrote to her, like Savannah did, I would have a better chance of giving her what she deserves (sincere apology, recognition for what she's going through, etc.) while giving me the greatest chance of being heard (if the only thing I give here in those words is, again, sincere apology, etc). I certainly don't want to excuse my actions based on the facts of mania and drink. But I do want her to know that I never would have done these things if I hadn't been manic.

Sigh...

I am actually not a drinker at all. Never more than one glass, and that one is very, very rare. Only when manic. Then I am a fish. Did you know, it is harder for the CNS to register the effects of alcohol and to become depressed by it (slurring, staggering, loss of fine motor coordination, etc.) when manic? I know that is the case for me that day.

Bio, I also wanted to thank you for picking apart the idea of assault and culpability to the degree that you did. I too am all about definitions and legalities and precision. That meant a lot to me that you spent the time to do that for us/me.

But Savannah, don't worry about talking about God. If that helps you, that's great. I am not a Christian, but I think we can all agree that different things help different people differently.

I especially appreciate your sharing the letter you wrote. It was very concise. I imagine my own letters would be long--too long, I'll bet. It would be easier for those reading my letters to get to the end of a shorter letter, I think. Your sample was especially appreciated for that.

I appreciate you ALL very much!