[Boaz]

This is my first post, and I stumbled into this place on accident, but after reading what a number of other people have said about dealing with bipolar disorder in themselves and loved ones, I thought I'd appeal to the community.

My wife and I have been together for 10 years, married for 3. During that time we've had a loving and nurturing relationship. She suffered from depression and ADD, but was medicated for both before we'd met and kept to a strict regimen, only rarely going without (and then usually because she didn't get her perscriptions filled in time).

Two years ago she left her job and went back to school, and after one semester moved into a dorm on campus so she didn't waste 3 hours/day commuting when she could be studying. It was difficult, but we spoke mutliple times per day and she was always home on weekends and in the summer.

Still, there were problems. As had happened in college, she fell behind in her work, missed deadlines, and last year missed the deadline for applying for summer positions (an expectation for law students). By the time she came home we were fighting so much about it that I insisted we go to therapy. She agreed.

By the end of that summer we were getting along gorgeously. We were happier than we'd been in a long time, something she told people as readily as I. When it came time for her to go back to school, things were still going well. Yes, she was still chronically lazy and unmotivated to do much of anything, but she was making serious efforts at mending our marriage, and I was happy with that.

Then, about two weeks ago, she fell behind in work again, missed the deadline for applying for real post-grad jobs, and then shut me out when I tried talking to her about it (using all the techniques we'd learned in therapy). After a few days of silence, I managed to reach her, got her to agree to come to therapy, and we coasted on, a little frosty, but set to fix things. Two days after that, she calls to tell me she wants a divorce. She doesn't love me anymore and hasn't for years.

The next morning, she expresses some misgivings about what she wants, but that night, she's back to 100% sure she wants out. Two days later, she calls again and tells me she wants to make it work and is willing to do what it takes.

She comes to therapy, and by the time she leaves she reiterates her vow of commitment to seeing this through. She hugs me tightly before leaving and it almost feels like my wife again. But two days later she's changed her mind again and wants out.

By this time she's cut off all ties to her family, even leaving her grandmother without a ride to a Thanksgiving gathering. She's got a whole new social life unlike anything she's ever had before (barhopping and groups of new people). Whereas before, for our prior 10 years together she's been very clear what kind of life she's wanted (secure, stable, comfortable), she now wants to live impulsively and free of consequence, and because I am consequence, she must be rid of me.

It took her 14 days to reach this conclusion, consulting no one about it. 10 years in 14 days, and she's never in her life acted with such surity or speed. Everyone who knows her says right away how atypical her behavior is now, almost like she's become a new person overnight. Both her siblings used the word manic to describe her during their last conversations with her, speaking rapidly and more animated than normal.

It should be noted that my wife currently resides in a dorm room about the size of five phone booths. Without me she has no income, currently has no job prospects, won't have health insurance, and won't have a place to live post-graduation. But she thinks all of that is fine, and even plans on representing herself in our divorce proceedings.

The radical shift in personality, the overwhelming confidence (which has not been something she's ever had), the shift to extreme selfishness, the vasilation of what she wants, and her extremely poor judgement as of late got me thinking she might be bipolar, especially because she was diagnosed with depression years ago and then never monitored; she's been on varying levels of Prozac for nearly 12 years. Our therapist asked if she was bipolar when I went to see him about this (because I'm not taking the split well at all).

I cling to the hope that this is all because of illness, because illness can be treated and then maybe I can get my wife back. If she's ill, I'm prepared to stand by her and give her the help and support she needs. I love her, and marriage isn't just about the sunny times. But the question is, how can she be helped? She's convinced all is finally right with her life for a change. Even though I've taken a lot of prepatory measures to protect myself should she file for divorce, including cutting her off financially (while leaving her some money), she continues to go on happy and convinced she's acting with a clear head. She speaks of clarity of purpose and the lifting of self-delusion. She doesn't think there's anything wrong with her (beyond depression and attention deficit disorder), and she's been resistant to seeking help in the past.

Is there any way anyone in her family might approach her about getting help that won't cause her to lock herself away from everyone again? I'm desperate to help her, and through that save our marriage. I love her dearly and I can't stand the thought of losing her, especially if this really isn't a decision she's come to rationally.

Thank you.

[Mr_Unstable]

God, I'd love to say "well, this, then that and that and everything will be OK."

You probably know that I can't. I can only say to you that when I get into a 'high'(I'm bipolar II, so I only get hypomanic, which is mildly manic), nobody helps with saying "yeah, that might seem a good idea to you but hey, you're hypomanic, so it really isn't.". I take mood stablilisors(seroquel), and that works kinda fast for me. Maybe it would be possible for somebody to tell her something like "hey, if you're not manic, this won't change a thing, so just take these mood stabilisors for like 3 weeks. Just to let ús be sure that you're not having a manic episode.".

Like you said, it would be a good idea to leave that conversation too somebody she totally trusts nów. Not somebody she loved her whole life but had a quarrel with just the other day. I tend to trust the people that are supportive of my ideas during that hypomanic episode more than somebody who started the conversation with "what the %#@&#! have you been doing now? You're manic again, aren't you?". When in a manic state, you tend to have feelings about people that are based on the last couple of days instead of the last ten years.

But above all, I wish you a lot of strength during this hard period. Just know that when she'll take lithium/mood stabilisors, she will be like you used to know her again, and I think she'll even be less depressed.

[Boaz]

Thanks so much for the perspective and the advice. I'll certainly be passing this along. I know in the end she needs to want help in order to get help, but I don't want to wait until she bottoms out her life and walks out of our marriage for her to get it if at all possible.

Any tips on how to approach her in this state so we don't push her further away is a godsend to me right now. Your post has brought me closer to calm than I've been in a while.

Thanks again.

[BipolarBunny]

Hello Boaz. I'm new here myself, but have used forums in the past for support. I tend to be long winded, so I hope you like to read.

I have Bipolar Type II and so only get Hypomanic, so I have never thought I was a movie star or jesus or could fly... nothing like that. Since I have accepted my diagnosis in 2006 I have been on moodstabalizers and have lost the hypomania's that used to drive me away from mo SO and into a crazy, partying, sort of life for months at a time. Unfortunately the Moodstabalizers have also made me fat and A-sexual (I have NO sex drive) and that is starting to threaten the relationship. Sometimes it seems yoiu can't win with this damn illness. But I'll try to share some stuff I know about what sort of state of mind your wife may be dealing with, that might help you figure out how you're gonna deal with this

My advice to you is this: You just have to be patient, wait for her mood to switch back to depression or for the mania to get scarry for her, and be waiting there to help her when she comes crawling back sayin "oh god why did I go and do all that?" or "I am going out of my freakin mind help me". And she needs to know that you are still there for her waiting and willing to forgive her once it's all over.

You could and should TRY to get her to see it from your and others perspective: that she's not acting like herself, that she should talk to a psyche doctor, that she might be Bipolar... but if she is truely in a manic upswing, she is not going to be able to hear a thing you're saying. She'll just think you're a downer, that you're jealous or selfishly trying to control her etc. I wouldn't push the point so hard that she starts seeing you as the bad guy and completely pulls away.

When you're manic or in a real good feeling hypomanic state, you're either completely unable to think rationaly, or you can have this overwhelming sense of a "new self" and "new true meaning for your life" that you feel like you've just discovered. Everything suddenly "makes sense", you "know what you have to do" ... even though really, none of it makes much sense... and once you get treatment, you'll be shocked at just how irrational, impulsive, selfish and strange your ideas about yourself and life were COMPARED to how you usually are.

It's kinda a sad reality to have to face becaue when you're in a postive manic/hypomanic state, LIFE JUST MAKES SENSE... you're genius, you're sexy, you can change the world, you just want to have fun and life IS more fun.
It would be nice if none of us Bipoalr peeps had to come back down from that state because it's a wonderful place to be (for us, probablu not for those around us though) -when it's going good -But it ALWAYS turns bad- sooo, we crash, and the world no longer makes any sense. THAT IS WHEN OUR LOVED ONES ARE OUR SAVING GRACE: Once the fun part of the ride is over, we are lucky if there is anyone left to help us put the pieces back together.

Some people aren't lucky and they loose thier marriages, thier families, thier retirements, thier houses, even thier lives. Others, like me, luck out and the people who really love us, who tried to tell us all along that there was something wrong with how we were thinking and behaving, they stuck around thru it all because they, like you, knew that this just wasn't US. That there was some sort of illness or madness going on and that we needed help.

I am lucky that the people in my life who really matter have been STRONG ENOUGH to put up with my BS, wait it out, and had the compassion to not hold it against me.... to just be there ready to help me when I finaly was able to face the fact that I was ill.

Now for me, it took SEVEN YEARS of me going thru these cycles with my SO, AND it took my almost dieing by my own hand befor I finaly could accept that I was ill, the doctors were right and that I had to take this thing seriousy, take the meds and educate myself. Hopefuly it will be easier for you and your wife.

With my SO I would love him like no other for months, and then something would change, I would become annoyed with him, I'd start drifting away, and then I would basicaly abondon him except for a few days here and there every couple of weeks where I was back at home wanting to make things right. ... but then it was right back to partying and wanting to "live for the moment".

The one thing that I think made the difference between our being together today or not was that thru it all we remained friends even if we did have other relationships and were "taking a break". not that I am saying that this is going to happen with you and your wife, just that IMO the best way to keep from having her run off and never speak to you again, is that you let her do her thing while keeping the relationship alive whatever way you can. If she is SET on divorce, then unless her episode subsides and she is able to have insight and realize she was ill BEFOR she starts really pushing to go thru with it, then the only thing I can think you can do is keep on with the couples therapy and maybe agree on a separation. Try to keep things from getting heated and staying that way, try to let her have her space and still remain friendly. That way you guys will still be on talking terms when it is over and thru with and she's realizes she needs help and remembers that you are the one that she loves and wants to be with.

I mean you can try to get her to see that she's ill now. In couples therapy you should bring it up. But if she is not going to hear any of it, and it is something that makes her start viewing you as the enemy, then all I can say is that you'll have to back off with the idea otherwise you could end up pushing her away to the point where you wont get her back. ... I guess I am saying if you push the point too much that you think she is just ill, and she rails against that idea and pushes you away, when she does finaly come down and realize she was being mental, she'll be more likely to be to ashamed to re-establish contact with you than if you make sure that you never completely loose your connection with each other.
When it's all said and done she's going to need to know you are still there for her (if you are), otherwise the shame of how she's hurt you might be too much for her to face.

When I was ill I just did not have control over myself, and I was not being reasonable. It is sort of like being on cocaine or under the influence of a drug that makes fun things even more fun, life more exciting and you more willing to throw your inhibitions to the wind and live for the moment with no real cares or worries about responsibilities or loyalties. Except it's your own brain that is manufacturing the stuff and you have no choice about "being under the influence", it comes and goes without your consent. And of course the GRANDIOUSITY makes you think that everything and anything you are doing, no matter how stupid it really is, is the right thing to do, because YOU ARE SUPER AWSOME and know everything and everyone else who says anything otherwise is a jerk off idiot.... even the people you love and trust the most when you are sane can become the "jerks".

It's sad. I have hurt my SO so many times, but I have been one of the lucky ones and he knew I wouldn't do that if I was well, and he loved me enough to put up with it. I don't know how he did it, just that I know I will do everything in my power to keep from getting ill again because I never want to put him thru that again. He is a saint in my eyes and I love him and I never want to forget that I love him again.

I think the most important thing to being able to be with someone who has Bipolar Disorder is to be able to NOT take the things thier illness makes them do Personaly. That is a lot to ask of a person and some people just can't do it. But if you can do that then everything will most likely work out between you two. I mean I know you're gonna take stuff personaly when it happens, everyone does, but after the fact, it's a matter of being able to forgive the person because you know they didn't do those things to intentionaly hurt you. If you can't do that then in the long run, you're gonna be miserable and she's gonna be miserable. But you sound like a guy who really does undertand that marraige is thru thick and thin, sickness and health, good times and bad, and can be an adult about things and make the marriage work. If you weren't you wouldn't be here asking for help, going to therapy etc.

Until your wife can come to terms with the fact that she's Bipolar... (if she is, it could also be drugs, a bad reaction to medication, a head injury, I mean there are a lot of diiferent things that can cause someones personality to change. But with a history of depression Bipolar makes sense) , ...she really doesn't know what she's doing IS CAUSED BY AN ILLNESS. Until she hitts "rock bottom" and has to accept she is ill, she wont be able to understand that those feelings and thoughts and urges etc., were not what she really wanted. At least that is my opinion as a person who has Bipolar type II. Maybe with Bipolar type I, where mania is really really out of control and really can not make sense to you once it's over, it is easier to realize that you were ill at the time and not just "feeling better".

See with Bipolar type II, if you spend a lot of your time being depressed, as a lot of us do, then Hypomania can seem like you are simply feeling better and you can think "this is who I really am, this is who I am meant to be". And even after the episode is over, and you're back to being depressed, you can still think "that is who I should be" about how you were when you were hypomanic.

I think it's easy to get confused about it because hypomania doesn't make you so far out of touch with reality that you can't look at it after the fact and make some sense out of it. And compared to the usual state of depression, hypomania is a gift in comparission, it's how you wish you could always feel, it's how you think normal people must feel. I mean even if it leads you to do mean, careless, disloyal things, it is SUCH a relief from the depressive part of the illness, that you tend to naturaly rationalize it durring the episode and even after if you haven't messed up your life enough to really be forced to see that you were ill, not just feeling better and more independant etc.

For me I had spent most of my life since I was 7 years old in depression. Looking back I have had very little "normal" stable time in my life. When I was depressed I KNEW that THAT was not how normal people felt. Just the way people reacted to hearing about how I felt was enough to let me know that I wasn't "normal". But when I was Hypomanic, people didn't react to me as if I was unwell. People simply treated me like "oh finaly you're here in the real world with the rest of us" because I was able to be social and happy, and not such a downer. SO I thought that THAT is how normal people felt all the time. When I was hypo I no longer had to "act" so much in order to fit in and have relationships. It just came naturally, and it just made sense, with me not having known what normalcy /stability of mood was like, that THIS, (being hypo), was what being normal was. And anyone who tried to tell me anything else was a jerk who must have wanted me to go back to being depressed and miserable.... Yes it doesn't make any sense that my loved ones would want me to be depressed, I know that now, but then, I dunno, I was just a tad bit insane.

I really hope that your wife has a short episode ad doesn't end up acting to nutts. Hopefuly my sharing this stuff with you helps. If not I blame it on the cold medicine

[Boaz]

Thanks for the insight. The more I hear about people's experiences with this condition the more I'm convinced it's what she's suffering from.

A few days ago she seemed to be turning a corner. She started reaching out to people again, having a long talk with her brother, actually calling her mother to wish her happy Thanksgiving (even though she ditched on the family gathering), and she said that she'd be amenable to them visiting her at school sometime. That was a big turnaround.

Throughout all that though, she still wanted nothing to do with me. That had me wondering a whole lot of things, among them that her desire to disolve our marriage was due to something other than a manic episode.

Two days ago I called her. It was supposed to be strictly business: she'd received a bill here, but had for all intents and purposes moved out. The call was supposed to be quick and was solely to inform her that she needed to make alternate arrangements for her mail, since I would no longer be paying her bills. Instead, it ballooned into a 2 hour call that almost immediately shifted from business to "why is this happening," and "whay don't you want to save this."

In that call I found she'd dropped to 95 pounds (a month ago she was 110, which is where she's been most her adult life), and was already considering seeking professional help. She knew about bipolar disorder, and it had come up in prior therapy sessions, when she used to get them, but it was always discounted because, according to her, her therapists never thought she acted with enough hyperactivity to qualify as manic. She said that she'd mention it when she went in for her med check appointment with her psychiatrist. The problem with that, however, is that her psychiatrist is heavily stilted against any kind of therapy and prefers 10 minute appointments that basically consist of "you like your meds? Want more? Great. Here's the RX. Next!" I've urged her for a long time to see someone else. The only other place she'd consider going was the health office on campus, also a dud. First of all, a university health office isn't the place you go to for continued theraputic care. Second, how accomplished could the staff really be in cases like this? And third, she sought an appointment there in her first year of school, right around the middle of her first semester. The were able to fit her in during finals week in the second semester. Obviously, this place can't help, but for the time being, these are the only two places she'll consider.

In the course of our conversation she told me that she misses me horribly and the only way she can get to sleep is either through the use of alcohol (used infrequently), or by crying herself to exhaustion (far more common). Yet just a week earlier she'd told me that she barely misses me at all.

Through it all, however, she was still adamant about how she no longer loved me, and that though she wasn't sure if a divorce was really what she wanted anymore, she was sure at the time. According to her, telling me she wanted to leave was the hardest thing she's ever had to do. She didn't want to call it off, try to work on it, have those efforts fail, and then have to tell me a second time. She'd rather just stick to her guns and walk away now.

By the end of the conversation, however, she was saying again and again how confused and scared she was, and eventually hung up abruptly after claiming to be in too much of an emotional mess to continue. She told me she'd get herself more rational and call me back the next day.

I expected that conversation to be quick and brutal. Given time to rebuild her emotional fortifications, I figured she'd regird, then call and say she was just lonely the other night and she wants out. Bye.

Instead, when she called back she said that she was a different person than she was before, as was I, and because of that it makes no sense to try to recover what we used to have, since that was something between two people who don't exist anymore. Instead, she wanted to just talk about anything except the state of our marriage and what we might eventually do. She wanted to see if we could converse pleasantly and if there was any spark between us now.

It was a solid in, so I took it, and we proceeded to wander the fields of conversation for the next hour and a half, talking about everything under the sun except the massive white elephant that filled the room. Still, it was nice to talk to her again, and it wasn't the strained or terse exchanges we've had over the past month. At the end, she said it was really nice to hear my voice again, that she liked talking with me quite a bit, and that she'd call me tomorrow.

It's no reconciliation, but it's a good first step. I'm not sure if this means she's coming down out of a manic episode or something else, but she didn't sound agitated or overly energetic when I spoke with her (as she had when she spoke with her siblings in weeks prior), so it's a possibility. She's still not going to seek help for herself, nor is she going to come to couple's counciling with me; she hasn't decided she wants to remain married. But it's a start.

I'm just hoping she doesn't flip back before we can reforge a better bond. For the time being I'm carefully measuring everything I say to ensure there's not a whit of criticism in any of it. I figure I used to be the one she'd always come to for comfort, and if I can be unflaggingly supportive, maybe she will do so again, which promises future communication.

Anyone out there have any other suggestions on what to say/not say?