[Blueberrybook]

Lately, I have been experiencing extreme forgetfulness to the point it’s become dangerous to even drive. H witnessed one of these episodes this morning and was aghast. And I have done other things before I even take my morning meds that have been forgetful. One morning, I woke my daughter up an hour early for school, forgetting her school had adopted a new schedule this year, starting later, ending later. I forgot to wake her up for choir. I told her and H the wrong time for an event going on today. Tons of other stuff too, but H was like are you sure you are not getting early onset dementia? I called pdoc’s cell, he lowered the dose of Wellbutrin by half; he had had me on 300 mg XL. I think these problems correspond with the increase in Wellbutrin, though it’s been 2 to 3 months now. I think I had forgetfulness on Wellbutrin 150 XL, just not so bad, and I could function.

And on top of that I have a ton of stress - CPS case, financial issues, marital problems (though I do think H honestly did not realize how truly forgetful I have become and felt a bit bad about that ), ED issues, bad anxiety and horrific panic, and even better, I am mixed.

I know any one of these things can cause forgetfulness. Is it tacking them all together making things even worse? I am really hoping the worst of the forgetfulness is due to Wellbutrin. I am worried I am getting early onset dementia or losing my mind. And how the heck do you get out of mixed BP? It was bad enough when it was mostly depressive with hypomanic periods. Now I flip back and forth between manic and depressed, or even better, am both depressed and manic at once.

Please tell me I am not going crazy!

[Wild Coyote]

Stress can cause forgetfulness, esp. extreme stress.

Other factors may also play a role in causing some forgetfulness.

Attention deficits can cause errors which look like forgetfulness, when, in fact, the information was never encoded correctly.

Your forgetfulness is likely multifactorial at this point.

Get as much rest as you can, esp. at night.


WC

[tecomsin]

I use a calendar and my phone alarm to keep appointments so as not to rely on my memory.

[Blueberrybook]

I use phone alarms sometimes, but sometimes they will ding just a reminder, like it's so-and-so's birthday today (so I won't look at it, need to change the tones for that), or I forgot to turn it off silent after leaving the pdoc or T. Seriously, this morning and today, I was BAD. (Honestly, I think H felt badly because he never realized the extent of my problems when they are the absolute worst though I have tried and tried to tell him time and again.) H could tell I wasn't faking it and that was just cleaning one kitchen counter. I don't know if it's the medication mixed with the racing thoughts or what. I do recall I had some problems remembering names of common lab tools teaching microbiology lab as a TA, and I was on Wellbutrin then but also Effexor. I don't know if I will have to stop Wellbutrin altogether or will be able to function better on the lower dose. If I have to stop the Wellbutrin but still need an AD, I may ask the pdoc if I can go back on Cymbalta; I took that ages ago and for awhile seemed to do fine on it, several years really. It would be easier than getting off Effexor, which for some strange reason seems to work for me & without a weight gain (but I do get the same horrible withdrawal symptoms most people get).

I don't know if it was just because I had only taken the morning meds like 30 minutes prior that it was so bad (though they must stay in the system awhile, what with me doing things like waking my daughter early, before taking any psych meds, morning or otherwise and just Protonix). I am 99% sure Protonix is not the culprit. I never take morning psych meds until my daughter is at school and appts. are taken care of. I get the earliest possible morning appts. for things I can get.

Still, it's scary that some days I function that way almost all of the day though I do better by afternoon, and other days it doesn't happen at all or it is just a couple of minor things, like I put mix up the mail to me and the mail to H. I tried to explain it to H, and he just didn't seem to get it until this morning. I am having bad anxiety & panic along with the mixed & racing thoughts saying I should do this, that, and the other, I'm a lousy mom, I need to concentrate on X, but someone is talking to me, I have to listen to that too and am possibly on a medication making it worse, which is not a good place to be. Though I did promise H I never do drive when I am like that, and usually, it is occurs after taking the morning psych meds (I never take those before driving my daughter to school or going to an appt.). Really, I don't think Lamictal or Klonopin (Klonopin doesn't make me sleepy) or Buspar and certainly not Docolace would do that, not even Adderall since it only lasts around 12 hr I think, so it would not be affecting me the next morning round. I know people have had issues with Lamictal, but I have been on this dosage several years (3-4 years) without issue. Or maybe this happens if I take these meds too close to the Protonix, who knows?

I don't think the night meds are the problem, but if changing the dose or lowering Wellbutrin doesn't help, I guess we'll look there next. Though honestly, being mixed is its own form of hell. I never got what people meant by saying they feel manic and depressive symptoms close to one another or even at the same time, I was like, that's impossible, they're full of it, but now I do, and it is really the worst of both worlds for me. Used to, I'd get 2, 3 hypomanic periods a year; once a hypomanic or possibly semi-normal mood lasted 6 months for me. And now I've been stuck mixed practically forever.

Even posting here, half the time I'm looking up a word to be able to spell it correctly or synonyms of a word because I can't find exactly the right word in my brain to use at the moment. That 2nd trait makes me talk weirdly, using not the word I wanted or going back and rewording the sentence from the start. And to think I used to want to major in English in college! I had extremely high spelling and writing skills. In high school, the internet was in its infancy, and you either had to know the spelling of a word or look it up, and plaigarism was more trouble than it was worth what with all the books you'd have to pull and it's not like ever found research answers in one book or the paper on the assignment just right there, start to finish, in one research book. Often, the high school librarian would ask to see my work (I'd let her, it was a small school, figured a second opinion wouldn't hurt), and she'd say, "You wrote this? This is really good!" dealing with whatever English assignment I had at the time.

It's been a frustrating day, and even though it sucks, at least H knows the extent of the problems I've been trying and trying to tell him I have.

[tecomsin]

I meant that I set a special alarm before each appointment. Not just the phone reminders. It's the wake up alarm.

[Pookyl]

I use an alarm and an app called ‘wunderlist’. I also spend most of my day doing jigsaws, find a words etc. - a neuropsychologist told me ‘use it or lose it’.
I’ve found that being in a mixed mood has not impacted my memory however if my brain is racing I struggle with encoding. My doctor said even healthy people who are multitasking struggle with encoding and their memory. It’s why down here it’s illegal to go anywhere near your phone while driving.
I don’t know how old you are but any healthy woman as she approaches 40yr struggles with memory. Hormone levels may be worth checking.

[Wild Coyote]

Be kind to yourself.
Do you realize you are grieving, on top of everything else?
Your writings often discuss/report your many losses.

Just an observation.

WC

[luvyrself]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

Stress can cause forgetfulness, esp. extreme stress.

Other factors may also play a role in causing some forgetfulness.

Attention deficits can cause errors which look like forgetfulness, when, in fact, the information was never encoded correctly.

Your forgetfulness is likely multifactorial at this point.

Get as much rest as you can, esp. at night.


WC

---yes, more than one cause here, mostly stress. Agree with you Wild Coyote.
You're doing a lot better, B. slow down, girl. Love ya!

[Tucson]

For the most part, I think it is stress. For instance, forgetfulness is not listed as a side effect of Buproprion. Before anyone says that they are having an unlisted side effect, during clinical trials, all someone needs to do is fart, it is then listed as a possible side effect. Actually I think there is allot of truth to my previous statement. So as far as forgetfulness goes, I would look elsewhere. BTW a very good source of this information is Drugs.com | Prescription Drug Information, Interactions & Side Effects

You need an AD, correct? So IMO you need to stay on it unless something substantive comes along that points to your AD. Also I would not reduce it until you pdoc validates what you want to do. Besides, he would be the best person to understand the possible side effects. For that matter, I have seen people on PC that have problems with forgetfulness despite the med changes they have went through.

There was one time where my body started shaking terribly. I thought that it must be the last medication changed. It turned out to be a medication that I have been on for some time. I am giad I did not start to manipulate my meds. I would have taken away meds that I really needed.

I am not saying that you are doing anything wrong. Please take care. Whatever ypu do, try not to start panicing. I am not saying you are panicing.

FWIW YMMV

[Blueberrybook]

Originally Posted by Pookyl

I use an alarm and an app called ‘wunderlist’. I also spend most of my day doing jigsaws, find a words etc. - a neuropsychologist told me ‘use it or lose it’.
I’ve found that being in a mixed mood has not impacted my memory however if my brain is racing I struggle with encoding. My doctor said even healthy people who are multitasking struggle with encoding and their memory. It’s why down here it’s illegal to go anywhere near your phone while driving.
I don’t know how old you are but any healthy woman as she approaches 40yr struggles with memory. Hormone levels may be worth checking.

I am exactly 40 years old. I turned 40 in January. Also going is my ability to read fine print, but the eye doc says that is normal too once you turn 40, and my eyesight is atrocious. He helped get me into regular contact lenses that work in a way I would not have imagined (one eye undercorrected, dominant eye with the prescription it needs, crazy, but it works).

It seems like the body just falls apart at 40. My cycles are still regular but different too, which I will spare anyone from having to read.

Are there other hormones to check? I haven’t had the reproductive ones checked in years. I just had everything related to my thyroid tested, and it was all normal (middle of the normal range, not skewing at the very edge. I think I had cortisol tested recently, and it was normal. Same with vitamin D and B12.

[downandlonely]

I think it sounds like anxiety, stress, and the mixed episodes. I have been on Wellbutrin for about 10 years, and if anything it helped my memory. Without it, I was depressed and anxious. When I started taking it, I felt better and was able to focus.

I think maybe you could see an OBGYN and get your reproductive hormones looked at. Also is there any chance you could be pregnant? I know that causes very similar symptoms.

[BoBoPeeps]

Did you have a full thyroid panel? I think there are like 5 or 6 different tests they can do, but a lot of conventional doc's only do a couple. It could also be a gluten intolerance. My doc had be eliminate gluten for a month, but it did not help the brain fog. What helped me was improving my low ferritin levels. Did you have that checked?

[Blueberrybook]

Originally Posted by Tucson

For the most part, I think it is stress. For instance, forgetfulness is not listed as a side effect of Buproprion. Before anyone says that they are having an unlisted side effect, during clinical trials, all someone needs to do is fart, it is then listed as a possible side effect. Actually I think there is allot of truth to my previous statement. So as far as forgetfulness goes, I would look elsewhere. BTW a very good source of this information is Drugs.com | Prescription Drug Information, Interactions & Side Effects

You need an AD, correct? So IMO you need to stay on it unless something substantive comes along that points to your AD. Also I would not reduce it until you pdoc validates what you want to do. Besides, he would be the best person to understand the possible side effects. For that matter, I have seen people on PC that have problems with forgetfulness despite the med changes they have went through.

There was one time where my body started shaking terribly. I thought that it must be the last medication changed. It turned out to be a medication that I have been on for some time. I am giad I did not start to manipulate my meds. I would have taken away meds that I really needed.

I am not saying that you are doing anything wrong. Please take care. Whatever ypu do, try not to start panicing. I am not saying you are panicing.

FWIW YMMV

Yes, I need an AD. I did take Wellbutrin when I was in grad school but it was in combo with Effexor. I had some difficulty with remembering words, but I blamed the Effexor. Shortly after grad school, I was able to get off most meds, but I know I stayed on some, don’t remember what though.

This problem is recent and started after I got on a lot of different meds because Trazodone and hydroxyzine weren’t getting me to sleep any more, and my panic was horrible. I may have started Wellbutrin as early as May or June. But I am fairly sure the forgetfulness has increased a lot lately, which yes, I have had a lot of stress, but the pdoc also upped the Wellbutrin to 300 mg just recently, when this problem got really bad. I called him yesterday on his voicemail for emergencies; he called back and said to cut the Wellbutrin back down to 150 mg; I had pills that were 150 mg from him prescribing the 150 mg first, and he moved the prescription to 300 mg before the last 150 mg bottle ran out. I am seeing him again on Tuesday. Confusion can happen pretty much with a lot of my diagnoses and is one of those rare side effects of Wellbutrin. And since I seem not to have issues with meds many people do (Seroquel, Effexor), maybe it is just my metabolism. I think they even were able to show differences in brain imaging of people with EDs when processing food, and who knows if that is permanent or not or has always been there? I haven’t read enough articles to really be up to date on that either. Or maybe the quick jump from 150 mg to 300 mg was too much since the pdoc didn’t have any hesitation on the phone yesterday as to what he wanted me to do with the meds. So I think he suspected the Wellbutrin right off.

But I still don’t get why some days it is super bad, others not so much so much.

But it is hard; I had pretty extreme surgery in February, and I started seeing this pdoc around 6 weeks later. So we are talking major surgery recovery combined with new psych meds, a new stomach med, surgical stuff done to my stomach, and more and more stress, also a lot of weight loss, 20, 25 lb. or so, that is a lot when you are not overweight to start.

[Blueberrybook]

Originally Posted by BoBoPeeps

Did you have a full thyroid panel? I think there are like 5 or 6 different tests they can do, but a lot of conventional doc's only do a couple. It could also be a gluten intolerance. My doc had be eliminate gluten for a month, but it did not help the brain fog. What helped me was improving my low ferritin levels. Did you have that checked?

Yes, I had the full thyroid panel run, but maybe it’s gluten. Can gluten intolerance just suddenly be a problem? It never has been for me before, but I have been having low iron in my blood work lately, not enough to cause anemia, PCP just said to up my intake of iron rich foods. But, again, she has a point. I don’t eat a lot of iron rich foods. I don’t have the brain fog though, just bad forgetfulnes. I have had the brain fog with severe fibromyalgia flares. Though I think low iron can also be a long term complication of ulcer surgery. And there are some vitamin/mineral absorptions affected by Protonix.

[Blueberrybook]

No, definitely not pregnant. I haven’t seen an OB/GYN for some years. They started doing pap smears and well woman exams at my PCP’s now. I could ask her to run the tests, I suppose since she was able to order a mammogram and breast ultrasound (cystic breasts).

[~Christina]

I’m going to go out on a limb here ...

Financial stress
Possible loss of your home
Flare of your ED
Recent trip for psych evaluation
CPS on going investigation

All of those combined are just a physical and emotional explosion waiting to happen.

Since you can’t work why not clip coupons galore ? and you force yourself to eat !!!!! at least that would be a step forward. ( I have a ED so I’m not talking out my backside)

Take a walk with your daughter daily , you get a bit of exercise relief for you and she bonding time with you that seems sorely needed.

Just pick a spot and don’t line up excuses before you even begin.

Good wishes

[Blueberrybook]

Originally Posted by ~Christina

I’m going to go out on a limb here ...

Financial stress
Possible loss of your home
Flare of your ED
Recent trip for psych evaluation
CPS on going investigation

All of those combined are just a physical and emotional explosion waiting to happen.

Since you can’t work why not clip coupons galore ? and you force yourself to eat !!!!! at least that would be a step forward. ( I have a ED so I’m not talking out my backside)

Take a walk with your daughter daily , you get a bit of exercise relief for you and she bonding time with you that seems sorely needed.

Just pick a spot and don’t line up excuses before you even begin.

Good wishes

Yeah, I need to. I'm actually doing decently with the ED stuff. I haven't exercised this weekend; yesterday morning was rainy, but today was not. Over the weekend, I tend to eat what H and my daughter eat (though my daughter's meal is usually whatever we are having as deconstructed as possible). I'm seeing my T again tomorrow; she is a licensed clinical social worker as well and said possibly she can help me with filling out some forms for local aid, considering I now have an official doctor's disability note. If you read the form my pdoc filled out, you probably wouldn't want to hire me or even know me. But he did basically state I can't be retrained or expected to work in less strenuous (mental) fields or even physical one for life; my condition is permanent (by this he means the BP and PTSD, maybe the panic disorder too for all I know). That his belief I could hold down a part-time job was 0 and then he laid out all the diagnoses, along with tidbits about my decompensations, etc., so yeah, it's a pretty definitive mental disability form. So we'll see.

I have also realized I must not easily convey in my person or by spoken word when I'm having a hard time to H. That makes it hard because I feel like I don't have H's support. I'll copy in part some of what I wrote on the ED board. Sorry if you post on that board and read this twice; I don't have the energy to rewrite it.

H and I had a long talk last week about our marriage, my psych diagnoses, he blew off the ED. But then, I told H, you don’t understand, the running connects to my weight, connects to my self-esteem and anxiety. I don’t want his pity or telling me what to do, but I do want him to realize I am fighting the same monster I did in college (still the toughest thing I have ever done) and to realize while the solution might be simple to him, it is not so straightforward to me. I know I ultimately make my own fate. Even if a person ends up weight restored after a stay at an ED place, the instant they get out, they will go back to their old ways unless they truly want to change.

But IDK, I think I am not able to stress my problems well or even my pain (physical or otherwise). I told H I was having problems with my memory, and I don’t think he took it seriously until he saw it firsthand yesterday when I was just trying to clean one kitchen counter. And then, he was like whoa! Call your pdoc right now! ...H said he’d thought I was acting a little ditzy and that was the forgetfulness I was talking about, but he in no way realized how bad it was. Suddenly, H clicked to that this issue is extremely urgent.

Same thing happened when I was pregnant, having contractions, dilated 6 cm when we got to the hospital. All morning I had told H I was having contractions, but I guess I acted so calm about the amount of pain (which got worse and worse and was very, very great, only outdone by the pain of ulcer surgery) until our last 30 minutes or so at home when I was crying from the pain and told H we needed to go to the hospital now. He kept saying no way was I having contractions; he'd thought I was crying from the hormones and frustration from going past my given due date. Later he said I just didn’t seem to convey by looking at me quite how much pain I was in, and he'd always heard childbirth was painful, and I was like, yeah! It is! When we got to the hospital, I was 6 cm dilated, and by 9 PM that night we had a new baby girl.

So part of my marriage difficulties may be that I don’t easily convey very extreme, hard, or difficult things even to H which makes it often seem to others if I say things are bad or very bad, they just can’t be, looking at things on the surface.

I think the CPS case will be closed soon. The caseworker said she sent it off to her supervisor for approval, so fingers crossed, that will be one less thing to worry about.

[Wild Coyote]

This insight you are having, about how you communicate your struggles to your H, is VERY important. I hope you can find a way to communicate more openly. I also hope he will listen to you.

About memory, I had mentioned stress. In looking at your med list, I'd also suspect at least some of these meds cause some cognitive fog. I am very aware of all of the meds you have listed and a combination thereof would do one heck of a number on me... and likely upon anyone.

I am not suggesting you don't need your meds. I am just making an observation based upon my own experience with lots of the same meds/med combos. I honestly do not think it's realistic to expect zero cognitive impairment with this med list.

I do understand things are getting worse lately. Again, I strongly feel the cognitive difficulties are multifactorial.

I hope you can sleep well and can start to regroup soon.


WC

[luvyrself]

I like what people have said here. Don’t let the pdoc reports upset you. Sometimes looking at such things in black and white is a blow.He is seeing you at a very stressful time and he is also writing it in such a way to get you some aid. You are doing better w the ED. Your husband is going to be networking to check out the job market. You are communicating w him. Cristina may know an excellent book or article on ED for him to read. When I am stressed out I miss dates or times like that. Hugs!

Sorry I couldn't read the entire thread, but when I did take protonix with my morning meds, I did not have memory issues.

While lewy body dementia can occur at a relatively young age compared to the elderly, it is very uncommon. And as someone whose grandmother died last month from dementia, I can tell you that the major symptoms for her were psychosis, more so than the memory loss. Dr's did think she had BP, but she was psychotic nearly all the time and had confusion. I can't deny the memory loss, but it wasn't really the most prominent symptom for her. The confusion was more like, "I'm going to go see my mother and cook her some dinner," or "no, we're in Brooklyn and the deli is 2 blocks down the street." (She used to live in Brooklyn for 30 years, but our house is just outside Boston and is rural.)

So the confusion was tied in with psychosis, as was everything else (including the memory loss). Plus, the onset of dementia is very slow and not sudden, despite it being a progressive disease. She got the confusion, psychosis, and memory loss at the same time, more or less. And as I sort of implied, the confusion is severe, not like, "oops, I left my front house door unlocked when I went to the store." More like, "my mom is alive and around the corner, waiting for me to come home," even though she was 82 and obviously her mom was long gone.

Hope that helps.

[Blueberrybook]

bluebicycle,

Thank you for the info about the memory loss. And it is very fleeting. I've still sometimes walked into a room today, forget why I'm in that room but usually then quickly remember why I went there. I've done better yesterday & today (just minor issues I've had with meds since the late 1999s when I first got on psych meds), but I set the bar pretty low on Saturday. Thanks for the reminder on forgetfulness & psychosis going together. One of my grandfathers died from Alzheimers (I was in 10th grade at the time), and I remember one of the symptoms my grandmother talked about the most in the beginning was his hallucinating with severe forgetfulness, such as thinking he was not in the U.S. but Brazil or South Africa. (He was from the Czechoslovakia originally but lived and worked all around the world before settling in the U.S.)

For now, I'm just going to hope the pdoc found the main culprit of the forgetfulness. I see the pdoc tomorrow anyway.

So far, I'm doing good with not exercising, but I think I might walk tomorrow morning. This morning I had to pick up my groceries from curbside delivery. And that is another thing. I went online to check our bank account; the credit card I use for everything (except one emergency card I will use for gas every few months) has a much lower balance than usual considering my monthly statement is generated the 2nd of each month. I think it will actually come in below budget this month, and it will be the first month I didn't overspend in ages. And there were a couple grocery items that if we have to do without them in the future, it wouldn't kill us. I'm excited though because I haven't managed to end the month on budget much less below it probably since I was in the hospital, and that doesn't really count because I was not even physically able to use my credit card for 2 weeks, on top of it being a short month (February). Otherwise, I don't remember having this low a balance near the end of the month on a card I use for everything. I even made it a pain to shop for myself on Amazon by removing my card from the site, so that I have to re-enter the info each time I order from Amazon. There are a few household things we get off Amazon, for me usually the cat litter and coffee. It is a pain, but it has stopped me from making a lot of spontaneous buys off Amazon.

Friday, I will start CBT with the therapist, I think first to work on mechanisms to cope with stress other than exercise though I also need a refresher or completely new breathing exercises to help with panic attacks. I have a lot of issues to work on, plenty to choose from.

[Moose72]

I saw my primary today. Everything is good and better. She wants to do some blood tests to get me off some meds. I sent a pic of myself at my appointment to a friend and he said I look about 130 pounds. Ha. Try adding 50 more. I hate drugs.

[~Christina]

Blueberrybook

Just a question.....

Do you always write out novel size replies or OP’s ?

The reason I ask is if your manic it’s common to write so much of course, but more so in a rambling manner, your replies have a immense amount of personal info and insight.

All your typing makes sense albeit long and I often to be honest get lost in your replies, sorry bout that.

I have just been wondering is all no need to reply.

[Blueberrybook]

I have noticed that.

Maybe?

One time I did have the automatic writing thing while manic, I forget what that's called. That was scary. I couldn't stop it. But that was during my super manic display at the pdoc's and in her waiting room that got me the BP 1 diagnosis (not just automatic writing, there were plenty of other manic things I said/did). Literally, I could not stop writing.

But this...I don't know. And pdoc says I'm mixed.

I did always like to write, though. In high school, I wrote a lot, fiction though, short stories and such, as a hobby. It's actually strange, when I think about it. Now I have a ton more life experiences to draw upon, and I cannot create stories using any of it at all (and not just the bad life experiences, the good ones too).

The meds seemed to have zapped that creativity or maybe it's age or something else? Even off meds when I was pregnant, I couldn't be creative, not with writing and not with art. I used to draw, too. I did very good sketches of faces, still-lifes, etc, as long as it was pencil, charcoal or black ink. I never could work well with color. But that too is gone. I won a lot of prizes for my artwork in high school. It's a pity, really.