Really concerned. Educated advice?

I do have a call into my pdoc about this but probably won’t hear back until tomorrow. My 9 year old son has been having really “bad thoughts”. Worse, he has autism so he is entirely obsessed with them and they are all he talks about. He is even saying things like “I wish I was inHeaven now so I didn’t have to feel this” or “I wish I was my old self.” The only thing I can think of that may have triggered this is my fault. He is ADHD and I’ve never given him his pills on the weekends or summers, long breaks, etc and never thought much of it. But now, suddenly, he is having all of these thoughts shortly after I stopped giving him his pills (for Xmas break). Apparently, that can cause different sorts of psychological issues such as anxiety and depression. As soon as I realized what was likely going on, I restarted his meds but that’s been like 5 days ago and he is still miserable and it’s making me feel so sad for him. I’m worried I may have triggered something. I am looking for advice here. And also, one of those “bad thoughts” is that he will kill his family. He keeps telling me “mom, I keep thinking about killing my family but I don’t want to.” That’s incredibly worrisome to me but my mom doesn’t want me to tell any professionals and to have him not say that particular thing for fear they may call child protective services or something. Is that correct? I don’t see my personal pdoc (the one I will take him to) doing this but I’ve never had homicidal thoughts before either. What are your thoughts on this?

I'll be frank, bearing in mind that I don't have any knowledge of the type of meds your son is on. That said, I don't understand why you stop and start his meds. If someone did that to me I'd be a mess. Physically, mentally, emotionally...just a wreck.

You have a call into your pdoc, but what about his?

I think it's a huge plus that he's dialoguing with you about his thoughts and about how he feels. That indicates that he trusts you and feels safe with you.

As for CPS, I wish I could answer that question with definite knowledge. My initial thought is that CPS won't be notified if you're open and honest. If you hide what's happening and for some reason professionals find out, that would likely be cause to call CPS.

Personally, I think it's would be doing a tremendous disservice to your son not to seek help.

I have stopped his meds because they are extended release and they affect his emotions drastically. They make him a little flat during the day and emotional when they wear off in the evening. I understood, honestly, from his pediatrician that it is ok. He doesn’t have a pdoc because to this point he hasn’t needed one. ADHD meds are generally prescribed by a pediatrician.

And that response wasn’t meant to be defensive!!! I just wanted you to know why I have been doing that.

HI! I am sorry you and your son are going through this. Has to be very disconcerting. I am glad you feel you can reach out to share.

Do you feel your son needs immediate help, as in right now/tonight? If so, go to an ER and tell them the story.
Do YOU need immediate help or are you doing okay enough to be there for him through the night?

If you feel your son and your family will be safe through the night, and you can/will take measures to see him through, as in keeping watch of him , etc., you all might be okay to seek help from the doctors you and your son know and with those who also might know him...and you (esp as a mom).

We can troubleshoot ideas if this helps. You and your H and your mom should be able to keep him safe?

If I was sure he is okay through the night, and the adults will see to this, for sure, I. personally, would likely trust the input of doctors I know. If you think (reasonably) that you can get him better help tomorrow and can truly safely see him through, then this might be a viable option?

I agree with BethRags, in that hiding this, or any part of this, might only get you into trouble.

How are you doing?
What are you thinking?
Are you feeling stable enough to handle this well?

For now lock up all sharp objects and sleep next to him. Remind them that they are just thoughts and thoughts can't hurt him or anyone else. Do not let him out of your sight right now. Call his pediatrician. Set him up with a therapist tomorrow morning. Do you have a near by children's hospital? Try not to show fear. Keep him occupied and possibly out of the house. Like play games, go to the park, anything REALLY interactive.

Yes, I had forgotten to add: He might not feel so overwhelmed with his thoughts if others can help to distract him? At least during his waking hours. Games he likes to play, favorite movies, etc. Probably interactive activities are best; yet, you know him much better than any guess I might make.

(Ooops! MM,I didn'[t mean to state the same. Sorry. Just saw this and edited.))

Again, I totally agree with MM, keep him safe at all times.

Hoping to hear from you.

Cashart I am sorry your son is experiencing this. Even if stopping the meds was a trigger, it's not like you were trying to do anything to harm him and you did not know, so try not to blame yourself too much. It definitely sounds like he needs some help and I hope you can get him in to see someone quickly. As others said there is always the ED if it cannot wait or you think he/you are unsafe. Whatever is going on, I do recommend you seek help and be honest with the professionals. There is no way I could say what is causing his symptoms, but intrusive thoughts and obsessive fears surrounding harming others, when I didn't want to, was a main symptom of my OCD in my case. I was never going to do anything harmful, it was just thoughts that I obsessed over and scared me. Of course, there could be other causes, and the professionals should know what to evaluate him for. I hope you can get him help and figure out what's going on. As MM said, I agree you should keep him safe at all times and get rid of things he could actually use to harm himself or others.

Thank you for your responses. I have been trying to keep him distracted as well as trying to have him replace his negative thoughts with positive ones. Both help some but not much. He is extremely attached to me and already sleeps with me most of the time. He is constantly near me and hanging on me even more so right now. I am not worried that he or anyone is in imminent danger as he has never at any time shown ANY inkling of violence toward himself or anyone else. But I am monitoring him closely and reenforcing him positively all the time.

I am hanging in there. I am stable but I am the one struggling with this the most (besides him of course). I understand what my parents went through with me and I never dreamed of how painful it could be. The hardest day was Christmas because, except for the morning, he was upset and crying over his “bad thoughts” and I wanted the day to be perfect for all my babies. My husband is the one that recognized it could be because of the medicine due to the timeline. I believe it was the very next day that we restarted. And, maybe that will still fix it. Fingers crossed. I have been hoping for this but I’m starting to think that’s not going to happen; thus, the call to my pdoc today. I was also planning to tell my t next week and see what she has to say and if she wants to see him. Maybe I should call her sooner too?

Thanks for sharing that. I really think that is what is going on here too as violence really isn’t his nature. I think I will go ahead and tell my pdoc everything. Most of the thoughts are more in the nature of him being kidnapped or having his family leave him (he has been able to express himself well) but the homicidal thoughts are concerning too and I think should be addressed but I am afraid my mom will be right. My gut does say otherwise though and I think your responses are reenforcing that.

Oh...and I just remembered to say...I actually did call my pdoc several days ago but she has been out of the office until tomorrow and I feel confident that she is the most reliable starting point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashart10 I have stopped his meds because they are extended release and they affect his emotions drastically. They make him a little flat during the day and emotional when they wear off in the evening. I understood, honestly, from his pediatrician that it is ok. He doesn’t have a pdoc because to this point he hasn’t needed one. ADHD meds are generally prescribed by a pediatrician.

No, no...my post sounded snappish and I didn't intend that, at all. I just feel really bad for you and for your son. Poor kid must feel really frightened. And scary for you.


That makes complete sense, about your son's meds. My daughter is now 34, but she was started on BuSpar and Celexa when she was 11 due to severe GAD. Her pediatrician prescribed it, but then referred her to a pdoc. I didn't know pedi's would consistently prescribe psych meds.

I'm liking the idea of going to the ER. I feel safe to tell you that CPS won't be called in if you ask for help.



Involve his therapist, for sure.

Reminding him that his thoughts are only thoughts.

I’m sorry this has happened.

If you think you can keep him safe and yourselves also until you can get him to your Pdoc, I truly believe he needs a Pdoc’s Care now. As for stoping his meds ? I don’t think you have anything to worry about. But it does certainly appear his current meds just keep him to low/flat so that needs addressed anyway.

Allow your family to watch over him while you get sleep

Remember to keep your own selfcare on track.

You are on top of things and your son will feel better sooner

You are a good mom!
You son is lucky to have you!
Vice versa!
I am glad you feel you can reach out!
Happy New Year!

I've had homicidal thoughts and CPS has never been called.

Hugs...I know how scary this can be. My son has ADHD and has had episodes of depression. They tend to be comorbid. His first episode was when he was 6. My son would also have thoughts like this. He'd threaten to hurt himself and once I took him to the ER because he said he was going to kill someone with a knife. He's pretend to kill his stuffed animals and stuff. I don't think stopping stimulants would necessarily trigger this though. I could be wrong, I guess. I never give my son his Focalin on the days he does not have school. But he's on the short acting. When he was the on the extended release I did give it to him every day, but that was when he was much younger and his symptoms were more severe. What med did you stop?

He is also on Focalin and it is also the short acting one. I said it wrong. That’s what I thought too. In fact, I thought his pediatrician had actually told us that before. But, when we looked it up online, it mentioned the psychological side effects.

Well, if you've not given it to him on breaks in the summer before without it triggering things, I'm not certain it would suddenly start now. Definitely check with the doc though.

I know with my son, a lot of times when his mood tanks there is something triggering it at school. Either kids making fun of him, or when he was younger he'd be in trouble at school all the time because of symptoms of his disorder. He'd think he was a horrible kid and internalize it. He also has an intellectual disability, so I'm constantly dealing with him thinking he is stupid.

I’m so sorry for you and your son. I know that’s really tough to deal with.

My son is very socially awkward due to his autism and also has several learning delays. He struggles in school quite a bit also but he is a bit ambiguous about it right now. I worry about when he becomes more self aware. He doesn’t always recognize when kids aren’t friendly with him just yet either. Maybe he is starting to become more aware and it’s having an effect on him? I’ll ask him some questions about school to make sure nothing is going on.

I think it's a great that you plan to tell the pdoc everything so they can best diagnose and help. I was scared to tell my pdoc, but when I told them I was afraid I wanted to hurt people, they of course clarified that I had no intention of actually doing so, but then started screening me for OCD. They were helpful and I was glad I opened up to them. Your son is lucky to have such a supportive mom.

Please just keep a close eye on anything resembling full-on psychosis. Speaking as someone with a long history of it, I can tell you that sudden dangerous actions are not uncommonly a feature of a major psychotic episode. Not trying to further upset or frighten you, just sharing my own personal experience and that of others I know who have been through this before--sometimes, sadly, with pretty scary events occurring.

So, please, please, just be sure he's not really psychotic. If he is, you must take him to the ER forthwith, in my opinion. Psychotic people are by definition sometimes unpredictable, even though he is your son and you know him better than anyone. Oh, and one more thing. Sure you have already done this, but lock up all weapons--please. Again, sudden, unforseen action are sometimes a hallmark of psychosis.

Sending you prayers and strength and patience to make it through all this.

Thank you for your advice and prayers! Yes...everything is locked up and yes...since I have experienced psychosis several times in my life, it is unfortunately possibly genetic. I pray it doesn’t go there. Right now, he is calmly watching Thomas and Friends. I’ve been letting my kids stay awake quite a bit later since they’re on break but it occurred to me now that that could also be affecting this so I am going to give him some melatonin in hopes he’ll be asleep by 10. I had a returned voicemail from my pdoc but I somehow missed her call. I hope she calls me back early tomorrow but since it’s her first day back in office after a long while, I have a feeling it’ll be the end of the day.

If you feel like you need to hear from your pdoc earlier in the day tomorrow, maybe leave a message for her in the morning as early as possible., making sure to tell her it's very important.

I hope you all have an uneventful night.

God Bless!!!

^^^^^^ Yep!

Having gone through crisis' with both my girls i can tell you that you should consider crisis help for your son. My 11 year old daughter was suicidal. She ended up going inpatient for about 3 weeks. It broke my heart and spirit to think my 11 year old wanted to hurt herself but it was the best thing we did for her. She got stable on meds. He needs his own psychiatrist. My daughter is doing amazing now. She has straight A's and is in musicals and plays but middle school was rough.