[tecomsin]

I recently joined a number of peer support groups on zoom for people with mood disorders (bipolar and depression) to help me get through the isolation of the pandemic combined with the isolation of my mental illness. I've had a number of unpleasant experiences on them and am wondering what is going on, if other people also had bad experiences and what to do to have better experiences, or if it is just hopeless.

Yesterday was one example. I was sharing how I had tons of anxiety about another problem my son was having, how I spent a good part of the day texting with him, and how I'm afraid that he will never be able to manage his own life and I will be dealing with his problems until the day I die. I also said repeatedly that i realized that my anxiety was over the top, was internally generated and wasn't his fault. I shared that I wasn't able to eat the whole day and am crippled by anxiety.

When I was done sharing a woman started offering feedback. She said "I can't stand people who complain about their kids". The facilitator said something like "no that isn't right" and was shaking his head trying to figure out what to say. I felt publicly humiliated and said to the facilitator that it wasn't his fault but I didn't appreciate that woman's comment at all, I didn't feel safe anymore in the meeting, so I left the meeting. I felt that this woman was being deliberately insulting.

This is the 4th or 5th unpleasant experience I've had in zoom support meetings for people with mood disorders. I am starting to think that many people really don't want to hear what an older woman with problems has to say.

I'd like to have better experiences on zoom, so I'm wondering what I can do to make sure that happens, or if that is even possible.

[Mountaindewed]

I am worried about joining support groups for that exact reason. I am worried people will be rude or not care what I have to say or worse think I don't belong there. I did a zoom IOP in 2020 which wasn't bad but they had very strict rules and the staff closely monitored it.

I'm sorry to hear you had that bad experience and others before it. It stings when the very places we reach out to for help are negative. I've had a variety of experiences in ZOOM support groups. I tried one but found it wasn't facilitated properly when an older man made a sexual innuendo and he wasn't rebuked for it. The one i do attend has more active, better trained facilitators and the rules are clearer and enforced. Even then the experience is uneven tho as sometimes people don't make sense or are repellent.

[tecomsin]

Mountaindewed, I understand your hesitation. Yours might be the wisest approach, just to avoid them entirely. The downside for me is that I have very little social interaction otherwise. But if it is upsetting, then why bother. They may even be bad for my mental health. It's a conundrum.

Whatever2013, I've also found the experience of the ones I go to to be pretty uneven. I've attended some run by paid, trained facilitators of a mental health organization that gets tax dollars in Canada. In one another participant interrupted while I was answering a direct question to me from one of the facilitators and told me to 'stop talking'. There were 3 facilitators in that meeting but they let him take over the group. After i was interrupted and the group moved on I left the meeting feeling bad and disrespected.

I think these peer support organizations for mental health or emotional well being can be plagued with problems. I left an international one before covid because they appointed someone who was convicted of attempted murder to their board of directors. They were featuring quotes from him in their newsletters. I didn't want this person to be affecting my life in any way and I wondered why that org couldn't find anyone else to be on their board. I still find it creepy. Now he is their vice president. One day he'll be president. According to what I found on the web he denied his guilt and never fessed up to his crime.

[Pinny]

I’m so sorry tecomsin that you’ve had such negative experiences with Zoom meetings. That doesn’t sound right, they’re supposed to be safe places.
I have to admit I’ve never tried one- partly because I’m worried I’ll see someone I know and partly because of my anxiety.

Would it be possible before joining another to email or converse with the facilitator to let them know of your previous experiences and to ask for support if something or someone is rude or not very nice to you. I realise you shouldn’t have to do that, but I’m just trying to think of something you could do to help. But it may help to know for sure that you have their support?

Have you ever been to group therapy before in person? I’m just wondering how it compares?

Anyway I hope you find a zoom meeting that is helpful for you!

[FluffyDinosaur]

I've never done any group thing as I'm generally not a group person and I'd rather talk to one person than a whole bunch of them. Being open to one person is hard enough. I also don't like the online stuff at all. It does nothing for me. I'd almost rather not talk at all than talk online. The very thought of it makes me cranky.

That said, I'm thinking maybe people are more likely to be rude online because the distance makes them feel like they can get away with things they wouldn't say in real life. Then again, maybe some people are just rude. Any facilitator worth their salt should be able to manage that better, though.

As a father of three young children, I'd say it's just a fact that having kids is hard and sometimes it's too much, no matter how much you love them. I'd say it's definitely rewarding, frustrating as well, can be enjoyable, but fun? I wouldn't describe raising kids as "fun." I don't think acknowledging that it's hard negates the fact that I love my kids and want the best for them, and I definitely don't regret having them. But I think it would be unnatural to spend day and night caring for someone else, virtually never having any time for yourself, and then never get fed up with it.

I do think there's a difference between getting fed up with the stress sometimes, and complaining about who your kids are as people. I think even if they're giving you a hard time, it's still important that they know you love them and accept them no matter what (not saying that you don't do that, by the way). And while being positive all the time is unrealistic, being negative all the time isn't good, either.

I feel like people who think you should always be nothing but positive about having kids either haven't had any experience with kids of their own, or had that experience so long ago that they've forgotten the bad parts and remember only the good (aka grandparents).

[*Beth*]

I have participated in NAMI Zoom support groups, both as facilitator and as group member. In my experience, whether a group is successful or not does have to do with the participants - some groups just "click", others don't. More than anything, however, I believe that the facilitator determines the health of the group experience. Paid or volunteer makes no difference; the talent and commitment of the facilitator is what counts.

[MuddyBoots]

I did an IOP over Zoom too. It wasn't as good as the in person obviously, but the cool part was I was able to switch to my phone and walk around the woods when I would not have been able to sit during an in-person group. They were okay with that too. All-in-all good experience but some groups were better than others.

[tecomsin]

Hi Pinny, thanks for your sympathy and understanding. I did peer support in person before and never encountered anything like what I've encountered on zoom. Not all the groups post the contact info of who will be facilitating. For example the Canadian Mental Health Association does not. But many groups on meetup do. I've written to some of the organizers after having a disappointing experience in their meetups and have yet to receive a reply. I've just come to the conclusion that if I have an experience that leaves me feeling worse than I felt before the meeting then I'm not going back.

FluffyDinosaur, I agree with your analysis of parenthood. You seem to have a healthy approach to raising children. It's demanding to have 3 small kids and I applaud anyone who can manage that.

I haven't shared the anxiety that I have about my son with him, with one exception when I told him his not getting an eye doctor appointment after many months was giving me daily anxiety, but the truth is I have daily anxiety about him anyway. It has definitely gotten worse since he moved away. I am seeking therapy that I hope will help me cope and not feel like I am drowning every day.

BethRags, that's awesome that you are also a facilitator in addition to being a participant. Kudos to you. Maybe the NAMI meetings would have fewer issues than I have encountered but i have shied away from them because afaik they not only require a full name and contact info to register but one has to provide the name and contact info for an emergency contact person in order to sign up for a meeting. They contact that person before approving any registration. This is not something I am willing to accept as a condition for attending peer support meetings although I understand why they have these conditions in place.

Sapien, I'm glad you had a good experience in a zoom IOP meeting. I've also had good experiences at some of the groups where i ended up having uncomfortable or even painful experiences. I think it is really hit and miss and depends as BethRags said on the skills and personality of the facilitator.

[*Beth*]

How absolutely odd for your NAMI chapter to require a full name, etc.! In the 2 counties I've participated in NAMI, they encourage first-name only and there is no emergency contact requirement. Contact info is optional. I'm sorry to learn that you face such restrictions. NAMI should know better.

[tecomsin]

Oh wow, BethRags, you are absolutely right. It turns out the first two NAMI online meetings I checked out on meetup required registration (like this site here: Connection Recovery Support Group Registration - NAMI Texas - NAMI Texas) but now I see that many do not. I gave up too early!

[tecomsin]

I have an emotional support person who'se been an AA sponsor for decades and says he has lots of experience dealing with people with mental illness. I don't have a drinking problem myself. I used to have a cannabis addiction but have been clean for months. We have had this type of relationship for over 5 years but I am thinking of ending it.

When I texted him that I left a Zoom support meeting for depression and bipolar after feeling insulted by a woman who told me she "can't stand people who complain about their kids", after i was done sharing about the anxiety I have regarding my son, he texted me back that "Again, that was your thinking that did you in." I am wondering what people think of that response.

This doesn't feel like support to me but like he is blaming me for leaving the meeting. When I asked him how my thinking was responsible for what this woman said to me he said I was being stubborn and refused to see any alternative interpretations rather than that she was insulting me.

I don't have a lot of support in my life so I am reluctant to cut him off but I've found his remarks to be upsetting and make me doubt myself and feel bad. He also has made numerous racists remarks to me involving stereotypes of different ethnicities and I remember once on a mall walk vociferously complained about a white woman with an interracial child as if there were something wrong with that. This is the same person who invited me to a nudist event several years ago. After that I stopped seeing him in person.

For now I've decided to cut back on zoom mental health support group meetings and to take a break from texting with this person. I've also been to some zoom chronic pain support group meetings, but I often end up leaving early because people start talking at length about their nausea and vomiting and this makes me feel sick to my stomach. It's one of those topics I don't tolerate well.

I've also been to some ptsd zoom support meeting but end up being triggered by the experiences that are shared and end up leaving early as well.

[Fuzzybear]

Hey,

I don't agree with the ? emotional support person... I do not think you were being ''stubborn''...... I do think the woman was being insulting, or at best, very unsupportive. I can understand you wanting to end the relationship with this person.

His comment ''again, that was your thinking that did you in''... could it be a heavy handed attempt at CBT on his part? I would not find him helpful either.

He invited you to a nudist event? Numerous racist remarks as well.... I would not want to continue being ''supported'' by this person. I hope you find someone more helpful!

[Soupe du jour]

Tecomsin, from my experience at many in-person mental health support groups (Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance), the group is set to be more topic oriented than therapy. In fact, the facilitators specifically state that. That didn't mean support was not part of the group purpose. No, but support in a general sense or for issues directly related to depression, bipolar, and/or anxiety. I know your son causes you great anxiety and I understand your need for support with that, but the group I went to would not be able to solve a specific problem related to your situation with your son. Or be willing to simply hear "a venting". If you came across as complaining about anyone to a large degree, the facilitator likely should have rerouted the direction/focus a bit. I know your intentions were surely not bad, though.

As for online support groups, I've only attended one in the past. Again, the same organization as above. Online stuff adds an additional stress, I think. We're all frustrated. Anything triggering or "complaining-like" exacerbates that. Regardless, we all have our own strong opinions on various matters (i.e. parenting). Hot bed issues should be avoided. Parenting, in this sense, becomes not so different than politics or religion.

Do you have a therapist? Some conversations are best had with one.

[tecomsin]

Hi Soupe du jour, at the group where this happened the facilitator states in his introduction that it is a safe space to vent or cry or share whatever one wants to share and many people have vented there during the time i attended it. I don't really feel like i was venting but even if someone interpreted it that way it was a stated purpose of the group to be able to do that. I found in what you wrote yet another rationalization to blame me for what happened, saying I chose the wrong venue to share my experience and anxiety regarding my son's problems, or that support groups aren't set up to share issues with parenting., while many people in that group had shared issues they had around parenting, but somehow for me that was unacceptable.

My experience is that when older women do the same thing everyone else is doing they are singled out for criticism. And when they are mistreated people like to find rationalizations to blame them for what happened. It's called blaming the victim.

Yeah Fuzzybear he did invite me to a nudist event several years ago. He's married. I don't know what was up with that but I didn't see him in person afterwards, except one time he came to my house to look at something on the outside that I needed help with. I didn't invite him indoors and it was a short visit. If I knew how to find another support person I would do it. I contacted the local mental health association looking for peer support but they only do email or you can call during specific times, a few hours a day.. However you don't get a peer support person assigned to you, you just get whoever is available, so it isn't really any good kind of peer support in the end, with someone who actually gets to know your personal situation. In the meantime I am kind of stuck with him or no one. I've decided to let it go for now without breaking any bridges. I'm just not contacting him. Maybe i never will again.

[Fuzzybear]

I have not been to a zoom support group. I did go to a support group a while ago, where people were ''allowed'' to vent, cry, share etc. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Originally Posted by tecomsin

Hi Soupe du jour, at the group where this happened the facilitator states in his introduction that it is a safe space to vent or cry or share whatever one wants to share and many people have vented there during the time i attended it. I don't really feel like i was venting but even if someone interpreted it that way it was a stated purpose of the group to be able to do that. I found in what you wrote yet another rationalization to blame me for what happened, saying I chose the wrong venue to share my experience and anxiety regarding my son's problems, or that support groups aren't set up to share issues with parenting., while many people in that group had shared issues they had around parenting, but somehow for me that was unacceptable.

My experience is that when older women do the same thing everyone else is doing they are singled out for criticism. And when they are mistreated people like to find rationalizations to blame them for what happened. It's called blaming the victim.

Yeah Fuzzybear he did invite me to a nudist event several years ago. He's married. I don't know what was up with that but I didn't see him in person afterwards, except one time he came to my house to look at something on the outside that I needed help with. I didn't invite him indoors and it was a short visit. If I knew how to find another support person I would do it. I contacted the local mental health association looking for peer support but they only do email or you can call during specific times, a few hours a day.. However you don't get a peer support person assigned to you, you just get whoever is available, so it isn't really any good kind of peer support in the end, with someone who actually gets to know your personal situation. In the meantime I am kind of stuck with him or no one. I've decided to let it go for now without breaking any bridges. I'm just not contacting him. Maybe i never will again.

[tecomsin]

Hi Fuzzybear, thanks for your support. Two people in the group I left after this woman said she couldn't stand me reached out in private chat in a different zoom support group for people with mood disorders. They said they were sorry I left the group and that it was wrong for this woman to insult me, so that felt validating. I checked that the woman who said that is still going to the meetings and she is so I don't really feel comfortable going back, at least not for awhile.