Usefulness and finding meaning

I posted this to the check-in thread but I think it might need it's own discussion. The key question is at the end...

So I've been thinking about how people only acknowledge me when I do something for them. I act like I should, I provide, I care, I listen, etc. My whole worth is based on how useful I am to someone else.

What it costs me to be useful is not relevant, that's my problem and no one cares about that anyway.

When I stop producing, people no longer show up because I'm no longer useful to them.

It seems my experience is not unique. It seems a lot of people live this way.

So I ask, what's the point of continuing when you're no longer useful? What's left?

Well - i was raised different. I wasnt appreciated for what i did, like doing all the laundry (with a wringer washer and hanging clothes on the clothes line), then ironing everything the next day, from age 10 on. So it didnt make me feel useful to anyone.

Other people were just a demand on my time. Usually a ridiculous demand. Which wasnt reciprocated. So i got away.

But i think its all on how your brain was trained. You cant fight it. Im not lonely. I feel not irritated by stupid things and that makes me happy.

Im glad you made this a new thread because yes i too thought it deserved separate discussion.

Thanks @unaluna for your reply, I'm glad you found happiness.

My experience is completely different. As I mentioned, I'm at the service of others. I'm irrelevant outside of that.

Even my adult kids behave this way toward me. I'm supplying money at the moment but that'll come to an end soon enough. And then what?

I guess I could try to find happiness, but where? And what's the point? There's no one to just be with me and accept me just because I exist, a luxury some seem to have.

I'm told that I need to live my truth, my authentic life. What a load of crap! I'm not rich, I'm not influential, I don't have power, so living my truth is not an option.

If I were to live my truth, I would not be of any use to anyone at all, so what's the point?

It seems there's really nothing left except to survive day by day and to simply wait for the day that surviving is no longer necessary.

It looks like my pdoc was right all those months ago, I've reached the end of the line and there's really nothing else to do. Sure I can go to therapy, why not. Sure I can try psylocibin. But in the end, there's nothing else to do.

(Before anyone freaks out, no, I'm not suicidal. God forbid we discuss that. My words stand as they are with no further meaning, but I wanted to clarify)

Meaning: I’m newly back to my church choir using my talents there are breathing life into the scriptures every week with our anthems. Usefulness: I’m still a mom to my kids even though they’re all in their 20’s. It just changes as they mature.

Thanks @Moose72!

Yes, I can see how getting into something might give you meaning. As far as I'm concerned, it's still a question of usefulness. Providing a service in exchange for acceptance. Once the service stops, so does the acceptance.

As for kids, yes, we'll always be parents but our utility diminishes over time. Eventually, they won't need us because they'll be financially and emotionally independent, at which point I've become useless, so they carry on and what's left?

Yup, we could ask for nothing more than their independence, that's a great feat and accomplishment. Being discarded at that point? That's hard after all that investment in terms of money and pure giving of one's life.

My kids are fully independent from me but we still find time to get together to talk over a coffee or a meal about our lives. There’s always something I can share with my kids about my life experiences. I’m lucky because I’m in two choirs with my 23 year old who’s in college full time. That’s a bond we share- singing and music in general.

Good for you @Moose72 - I'm really happy for you

I continue to think about this and developed this insight: I can be "well" as long as my pain is neat, marketable, palatable, or invisible.

And that's true, to me anyway. I hid the worst, so far, of my depression from my family and they went on as if everything was just fine. It's all about optics - keep it hidden and everything's good.

I still don’t think I fully understand the context of the question. Of continuing what? Life? A specific relationship? Something else?

I consider myself an “optimistic nihilist” in that I believe there is no inherent meaning or purpose to life—but that can be viewed as the ultimate liberty. We can do whatever the fleck we DECIDE we should do with our lives. Everyone has their own answer, if “life” is what you were referring to. Some live for God, some live for some other purpose they believe in, some may have the other form of nihilism and struggle with seeing the point of it all (maybe that’s what you’re doing?)

If you mean within a relationship, then, if there was a one and done purpose I don’t really think the relationship was as strong as it could’ve been. Ideally relationships are mutual. This doesn’t necessarily mean equal on each part, but each part should be happy with what they give and what they get. Not all relationships last forever (thank God!), but I think when there is more meaning to them, more giving and getting, more breadth, they at least seem to last as long as they need to (once the acceptance part of grief has hit if it ends).

Thanks, @MuddyBoots

Yes, I am talking about continuing life. There seems to be no purpose beyond what I can do for others. My family is rejecting me because I'm feeling too awful to contribute, I'm not working, I have lost interest in practically everything that used to interest me, so I no longer producing any output. As a result, I have no intrinsic value.

So as for the meaning of life and being able to decide what to do, my options are limited. I think I have been convinced that I can make choices, but my reality is very different from that. My choices are limited to what others make available to me, which isn't very much.

I used to think I could live my 'authentic' and 'true' life but the reality is that people like me don't have that luxury because we don't have money, or power and so must live in the environment we're presented with. There really isn't much beyond isolation.

I appreciate that you're an optimistic nihilist, and am jealous of people with your approach. I had, and continue to have hope. My reality has show me again and again that regardless of what I do, however much I hope, things don't get better for me. From my parents to my family and beyond, I have not had the opportunity to find out who I am, it's a completely foreign concept to me. I produce, therefore people, like my family, continue to tolerate me but that time is limited.

I'm aware I have a very negative view of life, however, it is based on what I have experienced in over 55 years of life. It doesn't improve and things don't get better.

So my question, is there a point in continuing with life when I can no longer be useful to anyone? I'm only left with despair and aloneness, discarded by everyone that was once close to me.

I'm not suggesting any 'extreme' measures or actions though.

Region and other things offer false hope for me. Hobbies? Not interested. Exploring my neighborhood? Done that. Travel? Yup, did that too. It all turns out to be a distraction from my reality. Those close me, like my therapist and pdoc can only now offer platitudes. I've reached the end of the line, as far as treatments go save for ECT and MAOIs. But those don't address the source of my depression, they only reduce its visible effect on me, I still feel awful.

Maybe my question is too big.

I should listen to myself and stick with my insight: I can be "well" as long as my pain is neat, marketable, palatable, or invisible.

Thanks for your consideration though.

I see where you're coming from, but I'll let you in on a little secret: you can always be useful to someone.

This post that you created is probably useful for dozens, hundreds, maybe more people.


I don't know what exactly you do on a daily basis, but your existence does have an impact on the world at large. Maybe you buy from a family business a few times and that is part of an effort that keeps them from going under, maybe walking down the street you hold the door open for a person who's having the most rotten day and that's the only thing they have to be grateful for that morning, maybe during your days of getting treatment, providers have learned something from your unique case or have thought of something in a different way because of you, maybe you've been in a group at some point and said something you thought was just a regular ole' statement but someone thought it was really profound, and maybe that'll happen again the next time you open your mouth.

There are plenty of people here, myself included, that read your posts and are awe-struck by your perseverance. Things have really sucked for you. I'm not going to sugar coat that. But you're still here, kicking it with the rest of us, typing up these posts, being a part of these discussions. And that is absolutely savage

Thank you, @MuddyBoots - you're very kind and I appreciate that.

Yeah, I have had a hard time but, somehow I still hold on.

It's from some kind of hope that I cannot explain. I have no idea where it came from and why it stays. It has been with me for all of my life.

Sometimes I wish I could let it go, because it persists even when everything else fails, again, and again, and again.

Thank you showing me a way to reframe my thoughts, it's very helpful.

I'm in my 40's and still call my parents every day . I didn't it my 20s I was still mad at them but as time went on I talked to them more. As for finding purpose I find it online. Talking to and helping people. My husband wants to work but I need him home. So I have no idea how we're going to fix that. Even if you are affecting someone in a small way maybe huge for them.

Thank you, @Victoria'smom

Your children, whom you are supporting financially now, will eventually have your own children, who will be your grandchildren. You will have an opportunity to connect with them. Is it something that you might look forward to?