[sugahorse1]

Just looked into this - can anyone give me some insight into the differences?

I have only really read over the symptoms of BPD now, and can totally relate on many levels. But my pdoc never thought of it, and went straight to BP II as a dx.

Arg....... I'm so ultra confused right now!??!

Then I read on a site that people suffering from BPD self-harm - which I don't do other than an attempted OD over a year ago

[free_spirit13]

Hey there-- I just re-started therapy and haven't been officially diagnosed yet but I suspect mine is a toss-up between the two you mentioned: BPD and Bipolar II rapid cycling, because my moods can change on a dime. I relate to both disorders too, and could be fit into both, and I do not self-harm. I do have suicidal tendencies though, which is also an aspect of BPD and the downs of bipolar. You don't have to be a cutter or anything like that to have BPD, even though that type of self-harm is common. Other illnesses can occur with BPD too, like anxiety disorders, obsessive compulsive disorder, eating disorders-- for instance I was diagnosed six years ago with anorexia nervosa, which is common with BPD. Also, if I'm remembering correctly Bipolar II doesn't include full mania, but BPD causes compulsions towards two or more self-destructive acts during your "up" times, which maybe wouldn't be something you would experience with Bipolar II, where it's more just feeling really good and overly energetic? Also Borderline means intense irritability, a tendency to be easily hurt and angered, loving someone to death than hating them two seconds later, which causes a lot of relationship disturbances, a feeling of emptiness that makes you do "crazy" things (promiscuity, spur-of-the-moment trip, shopping spree when you can't afford it, etc.)-- these are all parts of BPD that seem different from the ups and downs of Biplor II . I guess that for me, what mainly sets the two apart is how people with Borderline continually sabotage their relationships even while losing those relationships is the worst thing they can think of. If that is something that has happened to you a lot in the past then I would talk to your doctor about the possibility of the Borderline diagnosis. In fact, talk to her/him no matter what, because I am far from an expert-- I've just been reading up a lot lately on Borderline since I think that's what I will be diagnosed as a few more sessions in.

Good luck!

[sugahorse1]

Also Borderline means intense irritability, a tendency to be easily hurt and angered, loving someone to death than hating them two seconds later, which causes a lot of relationship disturbances, a feeling of emptiness that makes you do "crazy" things - yes, this is me.

I have been in my relationship for nearly 5 years, bar a 1/2 year break, when I had an affair and got caught out (Note how this affects the sabotage part?)
I get VERY angry at my boyfriend and I think maybe someone less patient may have long called it quits

[free_spirit13]

Yeah that does seem to fit the criteria, especially if it's happened with more than one person-- friendships count too. It's great though that you have someone willing to stick by you. I haven't yet been that lucky-- I've broken so many relationships in the past (friends, boyfriends, etc.) that I tend to keep people at a distance then end it when it seems like it's getting too close. Not a fun way to go through life.

[Skully]

I have BPII and I do not self harm. There are a lot of bipolar II's out there that don't self harm. Which type of bipolar you are tends to rely on how often you cycle. If you are rapid cycling then it is bipolar II. If you have mania that will last a week or more then depression that lasts a week or more then you may be looking at bipolar I. It is hard to say since none of us are psychiatrist. I know I can drive myself nuts trying to figure it out myself so I just gave up and trusted in my doctor to know what was best for me and what my dx is. So far everything is working for me. If you feel your treatment isn't working then I would question your doctor about your dx and medications.

[sugahorse1]

Hi Skully,
I don't really doubt the dx of BP II.
I can however relate to Borderline Personality disorder too, except for one symptom that says that sufferers are very likely to self-harm.
I do not cut or similar, but I'm quite happy to self-medicate or take more than my prescribed dose, especially with regards to anti-anxiety meds

[Trippin2.0]

I feel like you do...don't doubt my BPII dx, but really wondering about the BPD as I RELATE,on So many levels, not just with what the description/symptoms say, but with the people on the BPD forum themselves... don't want to bring it up with the doc tho...yet

[sugahorse1]

I think I need to bring it up soon, because the form of treatment needed for BDP is mainly psychotherapy, and right now I'm purely relying on meds and PC!

[Trippin2.0]

Do what you must, to be the best you possibly can be

I think the sooner you address it, the better and then you could tell me, what the treatment entails, if it's useful, etc Mwah!

Sending you warm well wishes on your journey to good health and overall happiness

[sugahorse1]

Haha Trippin - at least you get a smile across my face. Hey there - I'm the chicken here. I prefer low key, I like stability...

[Trippin2.0]

NOPE...sorry to burst your bubble sweetpie, but that is COMPLETELY untrue... you're the HORSE

I think my plan is perfect AND stable...U go to therapy, and then come here and treat me

I like it here @PC, I get to be chicken without judgment or shame...

Still think my solution is viable though, so don't you dare forget! We can have standing appts, and meet here. We can call the thread: 2nd Hand Treatment 101, Finishing Touches to Trippin2.0

WhatYaThink? /

[sugahorse1]

well, sorry to inform you, but right now PC is where I get my therapy...

[Trippin2.0]

AAAaaaw MaHn!!!

There goes my free therapy

Better luck next time I guess...

[Skully]

If you doubt your diagnosis it is always ok to get a second opinion. There is nothing wrong with that. If you are having the symptoms you are describing then it may be something other than BPII. I would get a second opinion just to be on the safe side. Do not be afraid to take the findings of your research to your dpoc and explain exactly why, and be able to back it up, you may be borderline.

[sugahorse1]

Thanks Skully. The dx of BP II came to her quite quickly - I arrived at her office saying that a year ago I had been dx'd Major Depressive Episode with Psychosis, but after a year still hadn't shaken the depression. And my moods were just too erratic; OK, to depressed, slightly over the top, then depressed again; and it was affecting my work and relationship.

Then she said it could well be BP II. At the time, my relationship was VERY stable, but in reality I have always had episodes of "Flying off the handle" and having real emotional outbursts. My friends are used to getting sms's in the middle of the night with me saying I Hate My BF, and the next day I love him again.

[/summergirl]

Originally Posted by free_spirit13

Yeah that does seem to fit the criteria, especially if it's happened with more than one person-- friendships count too. It's great though that you have someone willing to stick by you. I haven't yet been that lucky-- I've broken so many relationships in the past (friends, boyfriends, etc.) that I tend to keep people at a distance then end it when it seems like it's getting too close. Not a fun way to go through life.

so if a person has a history,a long history of frequent breakups/makeups from the time they started dating,that's a sign something is not right?? Of course if one is with a jerk,that is one thing,but to breakup with a "good guy" for really no reason except they can't tolerate "closeness" for long,well i think BPD could be a good cause.And you are right,it's NOT a good way to go thru life.It's quite lonely,actually but all at the same time,if one knows no other way.....

[Amandas256]

Originally Posted by sugahorse

Hi Skully,
I don't really doubt the dx of BP II.
I can however relate to Borderline Personality disorder too, except for one symptom that says that sufferers are very likely to self-harm.
I do not cut or similar, but I'm quite happy to self-medicate or take more than my prescribed dose, especially with regards to anti-anxiety meds

I do the same thing! I have been diagnosed as having Bipolar l disorder. I self medicate with my anti-anxiety meds too. I had got so bad that my family has intervened and I am now staying with my sister in Florida for 60 days away from my husband, my kids, and my friends. If I don't get myself together in these 60 days, I lose everything! My husband, my kids, everything! I have put my family through alot in these past years and I'm lucky that I'm getting this chance to get everything in order. Tomorrow is my 10 year wedding anniversary. I am lucky to have such a caring husband!

[Bipolarmother]

Having a supportive family is sooooo important. And we are blessed if we have them :-))

I have a bipolar II/PTSD diagnosis with an axis II of borderline features in depression.

I am med resistant, have trauma, shut down from help and I guess the list can go on for each and everyone of us. I think only a professional who really knows the "whole" us can properly diagnose borderline versus bipolar.

My therapist when she first met me thought I had borderline, we went over the criteris and I said no way BUT everyone can exhibit some of the issues at any given time. MY pdoc has always said no I dont have it because he has seen me in my very normal state, my manic and my suicidal depression. So only can he truely diagnose it. There is no doubt about bipolar but the trick is to distinguish a chemical mood switch from an environmental mood switch or swing.

I would recommend a daily chart with a little summary at the end of each day. I realized I actually cycle twice a day and didnt know it and through writing it down I saw my triggers or chemical trigger of bipolar

:-))

[StarryNight]

To complicate matters further, 15% of Bipolar people also have BPD. I just started reading about BPD a couple of weeks ago. I'm diagnosed as Bipolar II, but BPD fits my history so well, that I think I'm going to ask my doc about it.

[BlackPup]

To some it extent it doesn't matter.... Taking the medication for BP will not hurt a person with BPD and may benefit them, while undergoing therapy for BPD will definitely be a benefit to a person with BP.

What's with all these labels?

[sugahorse1]

Well, my new T wants to do some tests to verify the BP II dx (Any idea waht this can be?) failing which I think I'll fall in the BPD category. But for the first time in a while I can feel myself becoming slightly manic. The lack of mania was the main reason there was a bit of doubt as to me being BP II.

[lisadhum1]

My husband's dx is Bipolar (not sure I or II) but I think he's got BDP. I recently posted in the relationship section called "Lost..." about what happened to him. He has ups and downs but mostly he holds everything in then about every 2-3 months he has a meltdown. Since his heart attack in February it's been worse, he's been rapid cycling but this recent episode has scared me. He has always been worried that I would leave him especially after this last stint in the hospital, I reassured him I wouldn't and literally 2 days before he took off he was on his knees crying that if I left him he'd be alone since his family disowned him. Then he changed personalities 180, completely hostile and he took off saying that he was done with our marriage and that I was a liar and his family would never do anything to hurt him - yet, his parents are the reason he ended trying to kill himself and had to be committed. So... I don't get it. I feel like he's gone to me forever.

[lisadhum1]

Originally Posted by lisadhum1

My husband's dx is Bipolar (not sure I or II) but I think he's got BDP. I recently posted in the relationship section called "Lost..." about what happened to him. He has ups and downs but mostly he holds everything in then about every 2-3 months he has a meltdown. Since his heart attack in February it's been worse, he's been rapid cycling but this recent episode has scared me. He has always been worried that I would leave him especially after this last stint in the hospital, I reassured him I wouldn't and literally 2 days before he took off he was on his knees crying that if I left him he'd be alone since his family disowned him. Then he changed personalities 180, completely hostile and he took off saying that he was done with our marriage and that I was a liar and his family would never do anything to hurt him - yet, his parents are the reason he ended trying to kill himself and had to be committed. So... I don't get it. I feel like he's gone to me forever.

Also important to mention that he has had 4 relationships including ours that he's run away from. There is a definite pattern in how he leaves too, of course I didn't think it would happen to me!

[Bipolarmother]

I have bipolar II ultra rapid cycling diagnosis and had those run away, getting divorced(husband of 25 yrs), leaving my kids, whatever was normal was not. That was in the beginning of my diagnosis only 4 yrs ago.

My behavior while in depression is now considered an axis II "borderline traits" during depression. My Pdoc and therapist says I do not have Borderline only during my depression of my out of control everything....

Many things contributed to that behavior including PTSD and I was just trying to find "safe" in my head. I even stayed in a hotel for a few months and my van wandering around in what might be considered a dissociative episode. I felt like a wandering ghost and although my home an husband was quite safe, in my head it wasnt because I didnt understand why or how I could ever feel so depressed and dysfunctional.

Also with my first hospitalization and diagnosis and never having any mental health issue before this was totally new to me and my husband. But as I learned whether it through therapy, DR or support groups, my husband was not keeping up and therefore not understanding what was going through my head and "why" I could act the way I did.

We hit rock bottom and it wasnt until then that we became equal emotionally and physically to each other and he is so understanding and supportive in a positive way and committed to "understanding" me that I dont "run" anymore.

My hope is that everyone opens themslelves up to that rock bottom feeling and start from a new understanding of this life we are living and feeling. It is only with support from our loved ones can we really have any chance of living a somewhat "normal" life and understand that it will have its rapid cycling, its ptsd triggers, environmental triggers and of course, chemical changes.

So no matter what the diagnosis, we just need to educate ourselves and help achieve some "non dysfunction" in our lives with our loved ones...