Is violent behaviour associated with BPD?

My adult daughter (22) has been struggling for some time. She just told me tonight that she was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. (however this was after seeing a new doc for the first time for a 1.5 hour visit) Can they diagnose that quickly? I'm sure they had access to her medical history as well.

She came to visit me tonight. She seemed in a happy mood initially, but to me it seemed 'fake or forced'. Not sure how to describe it.. but just didn't seem natural. She was talking about different things and then out of the blue said she needed some financial help. (she lives with her dad, not me, due to a fight we had several months ago - she left). I asked her what kind of financial help. She said she wanted me to take her shopping because she 'needs a new wardrobe'. I hesitated before answering because she hasn't been treating me very well -- verbally abusive, nasty etc... She went on to say that if I refused to buy her a new wardrobe, the '**** would hit the fan.' I asked her if she was threatening me? She said yes in fact she was. This was when she went on to say that she was just diagnosed with BPD and she gets extreme mood swings so 'I better take her out and buy her these things'. I replied that I am not prepared to buy her a new wardrobe 'just to alleviate a low mood and make her feel better'. She lost it. There was a glass vase with roses on the table... she picked it up and threatened to smash it. Then she picked up something else and raised it up threatening to throw it against the wall. She then went into the kitchen and threw my sunglasses on the floor, breaking them. She was screaming at the top of her lungs and swearing like crazy. She came up close to me and started screaming right in my face and I said to her there will be no violence in this home so please stop or you have to leave. She replied 'violent?? you think this is violent? THIS is violent...' and she raised her fist about an inch from my face. She scared me! My heart was racing, but I grabbed her hand and pushed it down... she ran upstairs into my bedroom and I heard something crash on the floor.... it was something small but still.....

Is this typical of BPD?? She scared the hell out of me. I will say she has harbored resentment towards me for a long time (almost 15 years since her dad and I divorced) We've had patchy times over the years and she has shown episodes of anger, but I never suspected a mental illness back then.

Then last year, she had what I thought was a nervous breakdown.
(Paranoia, psychosis, she was very overwhelmed and upset, unable to sleep for days, periods of depression - ended up taking her to Emergency but nothing really came of it - she was always sent home) I learned after she had done cocaine and then thought the behaviour was drug induced.
I took almost 2 weeks off work to stay home with her as I was so worried. Then she seemed to go 'back to normal'.

Then end of last year we got into a fight about her over-use of pot. She got very angry and moved in with her dad - who at the time allowed her usage of pot in his home. (supposedly he doesn't anymore.. i hope that is the case)

Since she moved in with him our relationship hasn't been great. Although it's never been great for that matter, we did used to have lots of times where we got along and enjoyed each other's company. Now, she seems to hate me and tells everyone I'm a narcissist! In mid February, some concerned friends of hers approached me and to make a long story short, I went to visit her at her dad's to check on her and she was completely psychotic, out of control and I feared she would hurt herself, even if accidentally. She refused to go to the hospital with me so I called 911 and the police came. They managed to get her to agree to go with them to hospital. When docs saw her they admitted her, (involuntary admission) She stayed there for 2 weeks, on anti-psychotic me + lorazapem. Initially she would not let me visit but after she did. Although she had 'calmed down' since admission, I still saw paranoia and lots of irritability.

She has been back at home - her dad' place- for the past couple weeks. It's been turbulent. She exhibits lots of anxiety and irritability at times. But I seem to trigger the most extreme reactions of her.

Sorry this is so long... but interested in others thoughts -- or perhaps I'm just venting?? Thanks for listening/reading and if anyone has suggestions on how I can deal with this and/or help her??? I have been to see a therapist myself but have only been once so far. I've also seen my family doc to get help/suggestions but I seem to struggle on how to deal with her behaviour.

Yes, that kind of violence can be part of BPD (this is why most males with this diganosis end up in jail) and yes it can be diagnosed quickly in some cases. Anger and frustration are a big part of BPD.

What was the recommendation of the doctors at the hospital where she stayed 2 weeks? Is she following through? Is the family willing to see a family therapist? The family doctor may be nice, but this is way beyond his scope of practice. I hope you will continue in therapy to help you deal with her when she is threatening. I hope you can establish a zero tolerance where she understands she will be asked to leave immediately or you will call 911 when she begins to show any kind of threatening or violent behavior. Then do it. You may have to do it a few times before she believes you. Then the ball is in her court and she decides how she will behave, knowing exactly what consequences threatening and violent behavior will always have for her, with regards to you. BPD is not a free pass or an excuse for unacceptable behavior.

If a 22 year old needs a new wardrobe, a 22 year old can buy one herself. Sounds harsh, but it's meant to ask, what is she doing for herself? Is she working? Is she working toward and independent life?

She's just really too old to be playing Mom against Dad, and I think she'd feel so much better if she was planning her own independent life, but she'll need to get her behavior under control first and DBT therapy can help her do that.

What would she say about her life, about her behavior, if you were to sit down with her at a quiet time when she is in control of herself, and no one is judging anything. What direction would she like her life to go? What fears keep that from becoming a reality and the good news is that therapy can help with those fears and help a person make those goals materialize.

It sounds like she is really having a hard time. I hope your therapist can help you with the emotions around the situation. It sound like she is unstable with her emotions and what she wants. It also seems that she is pitting you and your ex against eachother to get what she wants. It may be hard, but getting on the same page with your ex may help you and her with some stability. Accountability is hard, and as a young girl, I think its really hard at that age especially because its when people graduate college and become adults in the real world. She has to learn how to manage her life on her own (which will be hard but give her confidence) while getting support from both parents. I think it makes it hard for her to have 2 different people give her different rules while also figuring out itself. Also she may get even more angry at you but you have to remember violence is never ok, whether it's a husband beating his wife or a daughter throwing stuff. Please keep yourself safe. You never know how if it will escalate if you let it keep on happening.

i've put my fist through a wall rather than hit someone else.

i'm dx bpd.

and i'm ashamed to admit that people with bpd will often threaten things in order to get what they want

I recently made my hand black and blue from punching the ceiling of my car so I didn't hurt my husband. Ya, I would say it can be a part of a BPD diagnosis.

Take this for whatever its worth, no one will probably like it, but its the God's honest truth:
Pot is wonderful for my symptoms. When I used to smoke, I felt like I could be myself. My emotions were leveled out instead of being at the the opposite ends of the spectrum every 5 minutes, I could control my anger MUCH MUCH better. It even helped me focus better on my schoolwork. It was a miracle for me, and one of the reasons why I believe in medical marijuana, and not only for pain management. The only negative side effect I had was weight gain.

The pot could definitely be her self medicating for her disorder.

Also, people with BPD can be "master manipulators" as its called sometimes. Yet, we can't use it as an excuse to do what we want and treat people like trash. You're daughter needs help. She also needs support: You need to be there for her, but without making her feel rejected and unwanted. There are a lot of online resources for family members of people with BPD.

As a borderline...I have to say...statistically it is in there...but,I honestly don't think all borderlines are violent.I am not.I tend to withdraw or say what's on my mind...and that's where it ends.Just like certain behaviors are associated with schizophrenia...yet different people manifest different symptoms...or behavioral aspects...for example.

Joy1010, I have to say that you have to be a caring and concerned mother to post this. . .. that's not to disregard your daughter's feelings because I know that they are probably different than yours. The strange and awful thing about BPD is that the person suffering from the disorder doesn't see or experience the world in the same way that "normal" people do. Your daughter probably sees herself as terribly abused and abandoned. This is a terribly lonely and distressing to be, even if the people who love and care for you don't see things the same way and tell you that they love and care for you. Your disorder makes you question that continuously! It's about the person's perception of how they FEEL and SEE things. . . I know that's hard when you see yourself as being supportive and caring. Your daughter just isn't able to see the world in the same way you are. It's sometimes helpful to do family therapy because finding out how each person feels and sees in a family is so Of couse, I'm sure you'll be able to grasp that a lot easier than your daughter. She will definitey struggle with that concept, but if she is able to eventually grasp it, she will make so many gains!

It's so important to view or see the world in multiple ways and most humans struggle with that--we all want everyone to see the world from OUR perspective! You want your daughter to see it from your perspective and she is desperate for you and her father to see it from HER perspective. Good, skillful family therapy will help all members to see it from all perspectives and work toward a compromise.

What is important is that you have stayed constant . . . you KNOW that you are her mother and you have a place in her life. I get that your daughter only sees you as having a place in HER life if you do as she wants. Sadly, that's a way of thinking that is quite common in all mental illnesses . . . not just BPD. Don't give up. Stay consistent and set your limits. You did that so well when you told her that you'd call 911 if she continued to physically threaten you.

There are several things make your daughter's illness very "suspect" of being BPD. They are: her attempts to make you do as she asks due to her anger and acting-out behavior (ie. "Buy me a new clothes or you'll be sorry and I'll hurt you!" It's not something seen in all people with BPD, but impulsivity and acting out anger is pretty typical in the "acting out" person with Borderline Personality Disorder. Her impulsivity, suicidal behavior, substance abuse (used to dampen down or SOOTHE her feelings and pain--people who are BPD don't know how to soothe themselves when upset or angry. They go from zero to 100 in no time at all and then when other people begin to calm down and head down to zero, the BPD person STAYS at 90 or 100 for a longer period of time), BPD people have interpersonal difficulties and they have intermittent psychotic behavior which tell the clinicians that BPD is probably the correct diagnosis. It doesn't sound like the diagnosis of your daughter was quick. She's had some interventions and most definitely has psychiatric/psychological records.

Most clinicians shy away from the diagnosis of BPD because of the stigma involved, but if there is a history of difficulties they are now more apt to state the diagnosis. In fact, more and more clinicians are diagnosing adolesence with the disorder than several years ago. They feel that if they give the diagnosis, the teen will get the RIGHT treatment and go on to a relatively healthy adulthood. I'm inclined to agree, but that is my own biase! Some of that is good (if you know the "enemy" you can marshal your defenses and march against it) and some of it isn't good (insurance companies view personality disorders as "incurable" or too labor intensive. They can refuse coverage in some instances. Some insurance companies can refuse "partial hospitalization programs", most of which include DBT, the most research proven method of improvement in BPD symptoms.

Sadly, most out patient or in the community therapist aren't willing to take the time and money (BIG MONEY TO GET TRAINED!!!!) to treat this disorder .. . a disorder that is THE MOST COMMON MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE IN THE US!!! Wow, that makes a person say, what the heck is going on! Luckily, more and more dedicated and intelligent therapist's and reseachers are taking this issue on and doing a lot of studies.

There are a lot of books on BPD. My favorites: Jeffory Youngs Schema Therapy for Borderline Personality Disorder, Marsha Linehan's book on BPD and her accompanying workbook (if there is a therapist near by who does DBT, run, don't walk to get your daughter to enroll, Another two books by two women who have and continue to deal with BPD: GET ME OUT OF HERE (can't remember the author's name) and THE BUDDHA AND THE BORDERLINE BY Kiera VAn Gelder, Mentalization based Therapy by Anthony Bateman (very clincal) and Transferance Focused Therapy For Borderline Personality Disorder (also VERY clincially based!!!!!).

Good luck and I so repect you as a mom for sticking with your daughter!

I totally agree with you, Wolfsong. I truly believe I"m BPD but I am and have NEVER been violent or threatned violence. I think there are "acting-out" people with BPD and "acting in" people with BPD. I tend to be one of those individuals who acts in.

But I do think that all people with BPD have a significant degree of self-loathing or anger directed inward, anger directed outward (ie. no one loves them or supports them, they are isolated and alone!), impulsivity (in the areas of: drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, shopping, binging with food, restricting food, thrill seeking etc.), abandonment/rejection issues etc. I don't know about you but I sure as heck don't want to be that way anymore. I just want to be "normal" . .. what ever the heck that is suppose to be in the world as this time and moment!

I can't have said this any better myself...we can be passive aggressive though...I piss myself off when I stoop to that...but I always want to say sorry for it.cause I can see it in retrospect...but,don't possess the foresight to fend it off.

What was the recommendation of the doctors at the hospital where she stayed 2 weeks? Is she following through?

I don't know what the docs recommended because they would not share with me due to privacy reasons as she is an adult. My daughter shares very little wth me also because she 'doesn't trust me'. She tells me to cut the umbilical cord. This is heartbreakng to me but I'm learning to accept this is how she feels and nothing I can do about it. I have told her several times if she changes her mind and wants my help I am here for her.

If a 22 year old needs a new wardrobe, a 22 year old can buy one herself. Sounds harsh, but it's meant to ask, what is she doing for herself? Is she working? Is she working toward and independent life?

This is an area her dad and I disagree. I have given up trying to make him see reason. He gives in to any of her demands and I do not, for the simple reason I do want her to grow up to be independent and self sufficient. He has been on his own for past 15 years and I think in some ways he likes to cater to the kids (they both live with him now) because they keep him company and he's 'their buddy'. Daughter did go to college for 2 years but she dropped out and now she has an 'on call' job. Not regular hours. When she used to live with me I used to push her to either go back to school or work full time, not sleep in every day and then wake up and get high and go out with friends after. At her dad's she can bascally do what she wants. He doesn't get it.

She's just really too old to be playing Mom against Dad, and I think she'd feel so much better if she was planning her own independent life, but she'll need to get her behavior under control first and DBT therapy can help her do that.

I agree totally!

What would she say about her life, about her behavior, if you were to sit down with her at a quiet time when she is in control of herself, and no one is judging anything. What direction would she like her life to go? What fears keep that from becoming a reality and the good news is that therapy can help with those fears and help a person make those goals materialize.[/quote] It's very challenging to have a discussion with her. Once I start asking questions she gets very defensive and irritable. If I push she will get angry. It's like she pushes me away unless we are talking about something she wants to talk about.

I greatly appreciate your response. Thank you for replying.

I want to thank each one of you for replying with such detail and heartfelt advice. This means so much to me and thank you so much!! We are planning on having a family discussion - her dad and brother (household A) + my husband and his son (household B). Daughter adores her 2 brothers. I know she loves me underneath it all, but outwardly her behaviour is so heartbreaking. I realized after she actually smashed the mirror in my bedroom too. When I talked to her today, she seemed ok, but when I brought up last night ' she did not want to talk about it'... she wanted to forget about it. I told her she needs to pay me for the mirror and gave her a nominal figure. Not the money, but I want her to be accountable...?? Again my sincere thanks to all of you for taking the time to give me your thoughts and suggestions. Thank you so much!!

>>. . . we can be passive aggressive though...I piss myself off when I stoop to that...but I always want to say sorry for it.cause I can see it in retrospect...but,don't possess the foresight to fend it off.<<

I get that! Personally, most people face that struggle! Passive Aggressiveness . .. I know I do that but I hate to recognize it. I do that with my family. They live out west, moved when I was in my thirties and my visits are rare. They are loving and invite me out, but I passively/aggressively RESENT that they are all out there and no one thought about me. I don't condemn or argue with anyone. I just say that I don't have the money to visit other than once five years or more. I'm not wealthy, but I"m now single and employed and they have famileis or in the case of my parents, are retired. ... I just resent (passively/aggressively that I'm the one who is expected to spend her "savings" to go out to visit. It grates on me. I wish it didn't, but it does. .. . a lot!

I don't even think that's passive aggressive.That seems naturally occurring in most humans....when I say passive aggressive ...I mean by example:I may sulk...and you ...perhaps see somethingis wrong...but you've no idea what...and earlier ...perhaps I cooked for every one.Well,you may have said something was "cold ...or too salty"...in my head I am hurt.I took is as a slight, thinking... "Geez...a thank you might have been nice." Instead I give you a cold shoulder.What I should have done...was to say..."Feel free to warm it in the microwave",and realized it may be colder than you like...or "Oh...I guess it might be a bit salty." Rather than get all hurt over it. So...in essence...you don't behave direct...you kind of...insinuate that you are hurt...and,half the time...people don't even realize they did anything.All they see is a mood shift.I reeeeeely make me mad when I do that.