[Magnitude]

Hello,
I think my father had BPD, or something close. He was always angry about something. Whatever he felt, he always turned it into anger and blame someone. And he drank to feel better although that would actually make him worse. He was over sensitive to anything he thought sounded like criticism and would take issue with the smallest thing.

I wonder if my mother may have had it too. Or something close. She was emotionally manipulative, but an enabler for my father's poor behaviour and always excused it and took sides with him when he blamed others - especially use children.

Strangely, it is really only since they both died and I am in my middle age that I have begun to fully realise all this and NOT think they were great parents. How could I have believed they were anything but toxic? Because they persuaded me, somehow, that I was to blame and simply not as good as them. Or something like that.

Anyway, at this stage in my life I have no friends and no relationship. I have had friends and relationships but there has always been a reason why they have stopped, and I have stopped seeing them. Usually, to be brutally honest, I didn't think they were good enough for me in some way. I am embarassed by that but it feels true.

My only friend, that I can call a friend, although really she is not, she is simply dependent on me in some ways and I on her in others. Not sexual - read my thread in the relationships section if you want to know.

She was diagnosed with BPD and fits everything I have read about it. Big time. Unfortunately, she refuses to acknowledge there is any problem despite having spent many years in therapy. And she simply blames everyone else, and especially me, for her feelings and the way she expresses them.

I worry that part of the reason I stick by her is because of some echo of the dynamic with my parents.

But anyway, today - after being on the wrong end of one of her outbursts - I looked around online for something to make me feel better. And I saw a BPD test and took it, thinking that it might offer some insight. Interestingly, the results had me quite high on the spectum. So I began to wonder.

The thing is I don't have the anger issues which always seem to factor highly in any description of this disorder. I don't do shouting or get out of control in that way. My 'friend' descibed me to day as passive aggressive. I don't think that's descriptive of me entirely, but perhaps with her it is a bit - if I display any emotion that isn't entirely overtly supportive of her she will accuse me of attacking her so I'm not left with much, and occasionally withdrawing or making a pointed remark is the only way I have with her of providing any response that lets her know I don't approve or agree. But that's not how I am with others - who allow me a wider range of emotional expression. Although, as I have just admitted, there are no others now anyway sso that's kind of moot.

Anyway, so when I read the test results and then read the post at the top of this forum titled: 'Borderline PD symptoms description' which doesn't highlight the anger/emotion so much but a sense of un-self and suchlike, I thought - hmm, maybe that is me afterall.

Hell, it would be great to finally have a label for what I feel. I have tried the 'depression' label but the more I look into it each time it happens the less I think that's what it is. I've also tried other labels but none really stuck.

There's definitely something wrong with me and I'd like to know what it is so I can do something about it. I have too many difficulties doing the basics and I am totally isolated, except for the occasional disfunctional codependent relationship - it's got so that if I feel attracted to someone I know to stay away from them! And if I don't then I know I ought to be if I were 'normal'. I can't hold down a job because I get disillusioned after 3-6 months and find myself leaving for whatever reason. So I'm self-employed, which can work really well at times but at other times I suffer badly from procrastination and low low low self esteem and struggle to find more work, then get all perfectionist when I get it and then overdeliver and then feel bad. Etc. Hey, I make a living but it ought to be easier than this.

Sorry, I've rambled on too long now and you don't even know me. Or perhaps you do if you are in this forum and that test was accurate.

What happens next? Any ideas?
Do I win a life if I guess the label correctly, or do I have to carry on doing this stuff because I left it too late?

Well as a borderline ... I lost friends etc due to neediness. So that's the total opposite to why I lost people. I lost them due to being too humble and feeling worthless.... Xxxx

[ifst5]

First thing's first, no one can diagnose you here. And the tests etc. are there to give you an indication of what might need working on, nothing more. Before you're given any diagnosis - which only a professional can decide upon - you have to think about what it would mean to you. Some people are more comfortable not being diagnosed, others feel they may not be able to access treatment without one.

For me personally, BPD is indicative of: unstable/intense interpersonal difficulty, issues with abandonment (though i don't actually have that trait strongly), tendencies towards impulsiveness/recklessness/obsession/addiction, regular suicidal thoughts/idealization (for a lot of sufferers this extends to a catalogue of suicide attempts - self harm is usually also present), an unstable/ever changing sense of 'self'/identity......i could go on.

Regardless of whether or not you actually have BPD, any other personality disorder, or even a mixture - if you feel you want to change you must be prepared to do the hard work usually required for such change. A diagnosis might more easily point you to 'how.' I would like to add that it usually takes some time to accurately diagnosis PD's - it took me over 10 weeks. I would continue with your research but also book an appointment with your main health provider so that you may enquire as to a psych referral.

Keep posting and we'll try and help you in any way we can.

[Magnitude]

Thanks for the post. In an ideal world I'd happily go along and get a referral to see a specialist. Unfortunately, that's not where we live.

In all honesty, I don't trust the diagnostic system. There's too much room for error and opinion. And like just about every other field, people enter the field for different reasons - not always reasons which make them good at the job of it. And finally, I wouldn't want any diagnosis on my 'record' - I've seen that go badly for someone I knew who went to court and had their medical record pulled up and... oops, looks like you have mental problems.

And I read the Jon Ronson book - The Psychopath Test - so I know that being a 'professional' in the field of psychiatric diagnostics is little more than being paid to run the kind of tests that appear on the website I visited today. I understand your point, but when the diagnosis depends on which professional you go to, you're really just getting an opinion.

So maybe I'm wasting my time thinking about this stuff if 'getting well' means seeing someone 'professional'.

[ifst5]

I'm from the UK too so understand some of your concerns - fact of the matter is, to access DBT over here (considered the gold standard of treatment for BPD), you have to be diagnosed. I don't know anyone who's managed too without, but yes, it's a postcode lottery when it comes to accessing certain therapies and their quality. Is going private an option for you?

Psychiatry isn't a lie. I've had some shockingly bad experiences myself - downright abuse in some incidences. But i acknowledge that i'm not all knowing and sometimes need help. Professionals can assist there. If you don't want to accept that as a possibility then obviously that's your prerogative - i'm just not sure what options you're left with. I would definitely encourage getting an opinion if not the full blown treatment. Non-specific counselling or group therapy might help, but again that would mean going to your GP and possibly being referred somewhere (most likely a CMHT). There is the mental health charity Mind who hold their own groups and appointments. Maybe contact them? They're very good on guidelines and advocacy too. Just to point out, BPD isn't actually classified as a mental illness, but due it's lack of funding/general understanding it's not a diagnosis many want anyway. But again we come back to what having/not having a diagnosis means to you.

To be perfectly honest, you don't strike me as being BPD. All i would say is that if you want help, it's there (well most of the time anyway, but yeah, you can end up fighting for it) - if you don't i hope there are those can support you anyway. All the best.

[Magnitude]

Hello again, ifst5. And thanks again. I just saw the 'thanks' button for the first time and clicked it, for what it's worth.

It's interesting all you say about treatment in the UK. I've approached my gp (different gps on each occasion) on a few different occasions over the years. Once following the sudden and unexpected breakup of a 'serious' relationship, a couple of times due to bereavement, and once or twice due to feeling depressed. On no occasion was the gp inclined to refer me and I took that as meaning I wasn't 'bad' enough. On one occasion I specifically asked for referral and was told I would have to be assessed separately as to whether I could be referred. Then that assessment was messed up and didn't happen and I didn't pursue it.

As a result, I personally sought out counselling on the two occasions of bereavement. And completed the set number of sessions. On another occasion I began seeing a therapist I found on the 'official' list of registered therapists but only went 2-3 times as I didn't find I could talk to her and she seemed at a loss as to why I was there. On another occasion I saw a therapist because a girlfriend encouraged me to, again, wrong person.

The two bereavement counsellors were the best and really helped me deal with the issues of bereavement. One suggested I try longer term psychiatric counselling, due to what I said about my parents and childhood. The cost was prohibitive, though. And the commitment extensive.

To be honest, I never decided what I needed or who I needed to see. Or, indeed, if I was just a 'mental hypochondriac'. By which I mean that, between the catholic faith and my parents upbringing, I go around with a sense of guilt, inadequacy, and the sense that if anything goes wrong it's probably my fault. I don't have 'anger' issues, and I'm not sure I have abandonment issues, although I did when I was younger - doesn't everyone, when they are younger? So maybe you're right about BPD not being the right label for me.

I could probably do without being around unbalanced people all the time. But that seems to have been my life. I guess from that I assume I must have some unhealthy 'need' too, otherwise I wouldn't have had so much contact with obviously troubled people.

I've worked in the arts much of my adult life, being an art school graduate, and if you've ever worked with 'creatives' and artists then you'll know what I mean. It's where having some kind of skewed sensibility can be an asset. Or a career maker! I worked in theatre for a while and you can times that by ten.

The problem is that I've got to the point where, perhaps, my particular mix of attributes isn't serving me well, and hasn't for some time now. I'm stagnant in many aspects of my life and for a variety of reasons, not all of which I control, I am now rather isolated and of the very few people I am in contact with, regularly, is someone who definitely has BPD. So while I question myself on my own behalf, she will blast me with all kinds of stuff which I hadn't even seen coming, which kind of adds to my uncertainty. And the whole guilt, insecurity and inadequacy thing from my childhood steps back in the ring.

I'm not entirely sure that's something to seek psychiatric help for, or I should simply make a change in my life. But then I read that people with BPD make sudden changes and leave and etc and I think, ok, I have to deal with the problems rather than run/walk away from them. I just don't know how to do that - as a single, never married man who has worked in the creative field all my life, I only know the 'creative/artist's way and that tends to be a way which psychiatrists give a name to. Hence, on the one hand I want the help that a psych/counsellor may be able to provide, but on the other hand, if things were going well for me right now I might not. Maybe that's normal?

And sorry, I'm curious why you say I don't strike you as being BPD? I don't think so too, really. I've known too many and always saw them as distinct from me, but I'm always searching for that thing that's 'wrong with me' (re childhood) so when I took the test and it seemed high I immediately entertained the idea. I'll sit with it for a while, in any case, it helps to try and wear different hats, regardless.

You don't strike me as a bpd as u seem thoughtful and less flippant than a borderline. U also don't seem to suffer the same sort if anxieties that borderlines do in general. Xx

[ifst5]

Originally Posted by Magnitude

Hello again, ifst5. And thanks again. I just saw the 'thanks' button for the first time and clicked it, for what it's worth.

It's interesting all you say about treatment in the UK. I've approached my gp (different gps on each occasion) on a few different occasions over the years. Once following the sudden and unexpected breakup of a 'serious' relationship, a couple of times due to bereavement, and once or twice due to feeling depressed. On no occasion was the gp inclined to refer me and I took that as meaning I wasn't 'bad' enough. On one occasion I specifically asked for referral and was told I would have to be assessed separately as to whether I could be referred. Then that assessment was messed up and didn't happen and I didn't pursue it.

As a result, I personally sought out counselling on the two occasions of bereavement. And completed the set number of sessions. On another occasion I began seeing a therapist I found on the 'official' list of registered therapists but only went 2-3 times as I didn't find I could talk to her and she seemed at a loss as to why I was there. On another occasion I saw a therapist because a girlfriend encouraged me to, again, wrong person.

The two bereavement counsellors were the best and really helped me deal with the issues of bereavement. One suggested I try longer term psychiatric counselling, due to what I said about my parents and childhood. The cost was prohibitive, though. And the commitment extensive.

To be honest, I never decided what I needed or who I needed to see. Or, indeed, if I was just a 'mental hypochondriac'. By which I mean that, between the catholic faith and my parents upbringing, I go around with a sense of guilt, inadequacy, and the sense that if anything goes wrong it's probably my fault. I don't have 'anger' issues, and I'm not sure I have abandonment issues, although I did when I was younger - doesn't everyone, when they are younger? So maybe you're right about BPD not being the right label for me.

I could probably do without being around unbalanced people all the time. But that seems to have been my life. I guess from that I assume I must have some unhealthy 'need' too, otherwise I wouldn't have had so much contact with obviously troubled people.

I've worked in the arts much of my adult life, being an art school graduate, and if you've ever worked with 'creatives' and artists then you'll know what I mean. It's where having some kind of skewed sensibility can be an asset. Or a career maker! I worked in theatre for a while and you can times that by ten.

The problem is that I've got to the point where, perhaps, my particular mix of attributes isn't serving me well, and hasn't for some time now. I'm stagnant in many aspects of my life and for a variety of reasons, not all of which I control, I am now rather isolated and of the very few people I am in contact with, regularly, is someone who definitely has BPD. So while I question myself on my own behalf, she will blast me with all kinds of stuff which I hadn't even seen coming, which kind of adds to my uncertainty. And the whole guilt, insecurity and inadequacy thing from my childhood steps back in the ring.

I'm not entirely sure that's something to seek psychiatric help for, or I should simply make a change in my life. But then I read that people with BPD make sudden changes and leave and etc and I think, ok, I have to deal with the problems rather than run/walk away from them. I just don't know how to do that - as a single, never married man who has worked in the creative field all my life, I only know the 'creative/artist's way and that tends to be a way which psychiatrists give a name to. Hence, on the one hand I want the help that a psych/counsellor may be able to provide, but on the other hand, if things were going well for me right now I might not. Maybe that's normal?

And sorry, I'm curious why you say I don't strike you as being BPD? I don't think so too, really. I've known too many and always saw them as distinct from me, but I'm always searching for that thing that's 'wrong with me' (re childhood) so when I took the test and it seemed high I immediately entertained the idea. I'll sit with it for a while, in any case, it helps to try and wear different hats, regardless.

It sounds to me like there are issues in your life that need addressing - a counsellor/psychologist can help with that without necessarily having to diagnose you with anything. In fact, if you've found some form of counselling helpful in the past i would encourage you to seek out something similar again. The way i look at it, whether you have high level needs or are starting to really be affected by something, your mental health is just as important as your physical health so why risk gambling with it? It might help you to know that 1 in 4 adults will experience mental ill health in any given year. So you're really not alone In terms of personality disorders, they take a long time to diagnose and have to be done so by a specialist. The treatment is then usually 1-2 years long. The condition is life long, with no cure and no diagnostic meds (although certain meds help a large number of sufferers). While the criteria for meeting diagnosis might be high, you'll find a lot of us are very different in our difficulties and don't all respond to the same treatment/therapy. A lot of us are high functioning, hold down normal jobs and have families - and others among us aren't quite there yet. It's not a death sentence it just needs greater funding and better understanding.

Please keep posting and asking questions, having as much understanding as possible really helps and with other forms of research, try and go for the peer reviewed articles as they're more reliable. For now, keep checking out some of the other boards here and get to know more people. If nothing else you'll get support and probably make new friends.

I studied art at college myself I'm an illustrator at heart and i hope to release my own books one day. There's a social group for artists here and you can also join my group where we support each other through MH services and other less specific stuff: http://forums.psychcentral.com/group...britannia.html

[Magnitude]

Thanks for that, MuayThaiLady, I appreciate your insight. I guess that my diagnosis of both my parents as having similar issues to BPD, and having had more than one as a girlfriend, I began to wonder.

Thanks again ifst5, your posts have been a great help and I appreciate you coming back and reading my ramblings. In fact, posting in these forums over the last day or so has been a great help for me refinding my equilibrium after my friend's recent outburst and accusations. I'm beginning to feel 'sane' again, at least. And not questioning myself quite as much as I did when she blamed me for everything wrong in her life.

You're probably right about the time scale in proper diagnosis and I'm not sure I'm quite prepared for that. The two different times I went to bereavement counselling, which was only once a week for 12 weeks, I got a lot out of it but felt 'different' about myself for the entire 12 weeks and it was something of a relief when it ended and I could 'find myself' again. I'm not sure why that was. Perhaps it is because I am not used to relying on someone else (which is how it feels to me in counselling). And I'm not used to exposing myself so one-sidedly, which begins to make me feel needy or whiney or one of those things my parents would acuse me of when I wanted anything as a child. maybe that means I should pursue it but it doesn't always feel pressing enough for the size of the commitment. Maybe I'm being a coward.

Interesting to hear that you are in the arts too. I came to the conclusion, many years ago, that the creative industries was really a repository for all those with some kind of mental or emotional difficulties to function in the workplace. Alcoholism, drug addiction, impulsive behaviour, extreme outbursts of all kinds, violence, promiscuous sex, it all happens there. Computers have changed that a bit. These days they seem more like places full of sedated people staring numbly at the computer screen, much like anywhere else. Hence I work from home these days.

Saying that, the great thing about computers is that they have opened up opportunities for everyone. And self publishing as an author or illustrator is a real opportunity, so good luck with it!

Thanks again for the suggestions and links, it's nice to have made a connection with you here; however tentatively!

[sideblinded]

Originally Posted by Magnitude

Hello again, ifst5. And thanks again. I just saw the 'thanks' button for the first time and clicked it, for what it's worth.

It's interesting all you say about treatment in the UK. I've approached my gp (different gps on each occasion) on a few different occasions over the years. Once following the sudden and unexpected breakup of a 'serious' relationship, a couple of times due to bereavement, and once or twice due to feeling depressed. On no occasion was the gp inclined to refer me and I took that as meaning I wasn't 'bad' enough. On one occasion I specifically asked for referral and was told I would have to be assessed separately as to whether I could be referred. Then that assessment was messed up and didn't happen and I didn't pursue it.

As a result, I personally sought out counselling on the two occasions of bereavement. And completed the set number of sessions. On another occasion I began seeing a therapist I found on the 'official' list of registered therapists but only went 2-3 times as I didn't find I could talk to her and she seemed at a loss as to why I was there. On another occasion I saw a therapist because a girlfriend encouraged me to, again, wrong person.

The two bereavement counsellors were the best and really helped me deal with the issues of bereavement. One suggested I try longer term psychiatric counselling, due to what I said about my parents and childhood. The cost was prohibitive, though. And the commitment extensive.

To be honest, I never decided what I needed or who I needed to see. Or, indeed, if I was just a 'mental hypochondriac'. By which I mean that, between the catholic faith and my parents upbringing, I go around with a sense of guilt, inadequacy, and the sense that if anything goes wrong it's probably my fault. I don't have 'anger' issues, and I'm not sure I have abandonment issues, although I did when I was younger - doesn't everyone, when they are younger? So maybe you're right about BPD not being the right label for me.

I could probably do without being around unbalanced people all the time. But that seems to have been my life. I guess from that I assume I must have some unhealthy 'need' too, otherwise I wouldn't have had so much contact with obviously troubled people.

I've worked in the arts much of my adult life, being an art school graduate, and if you've ever worked with 'creatives' and artists then you'll know what I mean. It's where having some kind of skewed sensibility can be an asset. Or a career maker! I worked in theatre for a while and you can times that by ten.

The problem is that I've got to the point where, perhaps, my particular mix of attributes isn't serving me well, and hasn't for some time now. I'm stagnant in many aspects of my life and for a variety of reasons, not all of which I control, I am now rather isolated and of the very few people I am in contact with, regularly, is someone who definitely has BPD. So while I question myself on my own behalf, she will blast me with all kinds of stuff which I hadn't even seen coming, which kind of adds to my uncertainty. And the whole guilt, insecurity and inadequacy thing from my childhood steps back in the ring.

I'm not entirely sure that's something to seek psychiatric help for, or I should simply make a change in my life. But then I read that people with BPD make sudden changes and leave and etc and I think, ok, I have to deal with the problems rather than run/walk away from them. I just don't know how to do that - as a single, never married man who has worked in the creative field all my life, I only know the 'creative/artist's way and that tends to be a way which psychiatrists give a name to. Hence, on the one hand I want the help that a psych/counsellor may be able to provide, but on the other hand, if things were going well for me right now I might not. Maybe that's normal?

And sorry, I'm curious why you say I don't strike you as being BPD? I don't think so too, really. I've known too many and always saw them as distinct from me, but I'm always searching for that thing that's 'wrong with me' (re childhood) so when I took the test and it seemed high I immediately entertained the idea. I'll sit with it for a while, in any case, it helps to try and wear different hats, regardless.

I understand your confusion concerning whether you may have BPD. So many disorders overlap. I have been learning about BPD and I am a thoughtful person and I don't flip out. I do not self harm or act out with threats of suicide or ideation. However I do have many of the other traits involved with BPD. I see a T very soon and I hope to discuss my traits with her.

Maybe you don't have BPD and that will give you space to look into what you do have. I wish you the best!