[tiger8]

Hi! Why I'm posting here - I'd like to hear any thoughts. Psychologists have not helped much so far and I want to get educated on this stuff more. I'd just like to understand more in general. I've highlighted the main points in bold/italic if that helps. Thanks!

I have some sort of emotional dysregulation, not by default, only if triggered to go into episode and I thought it was manic/hypomanic bipolar but I was told that this could be borderline because in my episodes my moods are not constant, I do not have the ability to maintain a type of emotion for long and it can change into another type very fast, from negative to positive etc.

In the last four years, except for 1.5 years when I unfortunately developed a shopping addiction (which I successfully got rid of), I've been regularly experiencing this weird sort of episode. When I had the shopping addiction I felt my normal self though. No episodes then. No weird way of thinking or emotional problems! Interesting. But it was costly. So I stopped with that. I was not surprised that the episodes slowly returned afterwards.

The episodes look like, I first start overthinking, analysing crap, unnecessarily, think too much in general, I may think of some weird stuff too, locked in my mind overall, so much that I start to neglect daily tasks and everything, I just sit at my computer or in the bedroom and think total bs stuff. It's really no good, sometimes almost feeling schizo.

Sleep also is skipped due to that, I maybe even forget to eat. I definitely forget to do my sports training.. which is no good. This can last up to a week. At least once a month.

Then eventually I get some emotional outbursts, that part lasts only for a day or two maybe, I get exhausted too fast by that. Mostly feeling upset, crying, stuff like that, I do not show them to people if I can help it. I'm usually alone anyway. And I'm good at hiding how I feel if I feel anything except for some anger (outside the episodes).

Then when I'm exhausted, I feel like my mind is clean, no thinking anymore which is good and then I return to baseline, next day I feel like I crashed for a few hours then I'm entirely back to baseline. Please note below my description of this baseline.

When lucky the whole thing is over in a couple days. That's been more often than the week long episodes actually.

In the first two years beyond all this, I had two episodes that were not only a whole week long but ended in a psychotic breakdown. I was seen in the hospital for each one, first time I just left without permission lol, after I got a little sleep on the pill they gave me, the second time I was hospitalized for a few days then got sent home, with "one-time not specified psychotic episode".

The psychosis stuff did not repeat since then because I figured out the trigger for it (it was me trying to get too close to an unresponsive partner in a relationship). So I never did that sort of thing again. But the episodes themselves did continue.

This year I also got, on top of all that, some sort of general emotional dysregulation. Meaning that it can sometimes be triggered for a short time outside the longer episodes or inside the episodes as well of course. I've got that somewhat under control too by now.

It's like, the intensity of emotions are not regulated right, I'm not being myself at least, at my base line I prefer to not feel much or strongly by default. It is positive and negative emotionality alike. Depressive ones included. But also over the top positive too. It's all been really bad and has had a compulsive flavour to it which made it even worse.

It looks like I gained some - probably temporary - control over this and the episodes themselves recently, in the last month or so; simply by recognizing my mindsets and recognizing how it's just leading to a dead end if I let myself overcome by too much thinking and too much emotionality. I mean I get nowhere with that so why allow this?

So I'm really vigilant on my sleep schedule now because if I don't sleep enough hours at a night then next day I sometimes feel already a bit susceptible to a new episode start. I have to be careful with that.

I am hoping it does not come back mainly because I do not want it to mess with my sports training - that I've had problems with in the last half year for some reason, depression??? - or other tasks in my daily life. I've been unable to work in these last 4 years, too. Somehow have not had the energy to be actually productive anymore.

My baseline since age 18 is some low-ish energy baseline that sounds somewhat like atypical depression or schizoid PD. Because it's pretty unemotional too. Not actually negative feelings, just low-ish energy. Though I do like and prefer to have a project with a long term goal to focus on - work or sports, etc, anything I can also analyse while doing it -, not much energy beyond that. Unlike before age 18.

Also willingly isolated myself from people since age 18 because I started having some incredibly energy drain around them and felt too disconnected from people overall and lost interest in them. I hardly visited university classes either, only as much as they required me to. Even with work, I only did remote work, not in a workplace around people. I'm 32 now.

That isolation was kinda like schizoid PD. I no longer have the energy drain if around people, I suppose the rest from people helped. I may be a bit anxious sometimes with some people but not crazily drained like that. I also no longer truly want to be isolated but, as a result, instead I'm having these episodes or at least still susceptible to them. So it's no good. It was much simpler when isolation was my default.

The desire for isolation did not go away on its own though, it only changed 4 years ago when I ran into some guy who I tried to have a relationship with. That relationship lasted for a month but I never fell in love or anything, just the initial contact made me feel like I was connected.. for a short time or something. I never had that experience before I think? Not even before I was 18 and my normal default self. Then I just changed into this crazy person afterwards lol. As above.

I think that's all

[WibblyWobbly]

It could certainly be BPD. There is a lot of overlap between BP and BPD. I currently have one pdoc who says I have BP and another who says BPD. I've seen a lot of people on these boards who were first diagnosed with one and then it changed to the other.

My opinion on your history:
1. pwBPD have emotional dysregulation that is not cyclical. Moods can fluctuate rapidly.
2. A sign of BPD is impulsivity. This could be what was going on with your shopping addiction.
3. The overthinking sounds like anxiety. When I'm depressed/anxious I isolate which provides the environment for upsetting or racing thoughts.
4. Emotional outbursts are obviously a part of BPD. I think it's normal to have a period of catharsis afterwards.
5. I'm interested in hearing more about your psychotic episodes. I have had auditory and olfactory hallucinations. I also had a period of 3 weeks in the hospital where I had a breakdown and acted out of character making threatening phone calls daily. I have no memory of this. BPD can include psychotic features.
6. More emotional dysregulation. BPD.
7. Sleep effects my mood too.
8. Sounds like either depression or maybe something medical going on.
9. Could be some type of dissociation going on. BPD. Could be a subconscious fear of abandonment/rejection that made you isolate.
10. My mood swings are almost always a product of spending time with other people. My rages are only because of my relationships.

Can I ask you if you have a history of trauma? PTSD and BPD go hand in hand.

[Bioshock]

With me, besides the constant anger and self loathing, the primary indicator is my inability to be alone. But I constantly criticise the people around me.

I hate you, don't leave me mentality.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Borderline is the existence of extremes in us that we cannot tolerate at once (hence "dialectical" in DBT). People can't be good and bad at the same time. That's why we fluctuate btwn idealizing and devaluing people. We have an extreme need, an attachment to people, but we also have an extreme fear of abandonment and rejection. Both cannot exist at the same time for us, so we cycle btwn "I love you, I hate you, please don't leave me".

If you think you have BPD, were you an emotionally sensitive child? Did you experience childhood trauma? Both are early indicators of BPD. Do either of your parents suffer from mental illness? It's a theory that narcissistic parents have BPD children. Are you emotionally regressed for your age? Do you feel like a child trapped inside of an adults body? It's often described that way. Do you split people into good and bad? Do you have a fear of rejection and abandonment? Do you tend to get attached to people?

There are over 200 varieties of BPD. BPD is similar to PTSD and BP. And if you're a teenager/young adult, these symptoms might be normal for the stage of life you're in.

I wouldn't go diagnosing yourself. BPD is not something you hope to be diagnosed with. If you want to be diagnosed, seek a professional's opinion.

[lavendersage]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

Borderline is the existence of extremes in us that we cannot tolerate at once (hence "dialectical" in DBT). People can't be good and bad at the same time. That's why we fluctuate btwn idealizing and devaluing people. We have an extreme need, an attachment to people, but we also have an extreme fear of abandonment and rejection. Both cannot exist at the same time for us, so we cycle btwn "I love you, I hate you, please don't leave me".

If you think you have BPD, were you an emotionally sensitive child? Did you experience childhood trauma? Both are early indicators of BPD. Do either of your parents suffer from mental illness? It's a theory that narcissistic parents have BPD children. Are you emotionally regressed for your age? Do you feel like a child trapped inside of an adults body? It's often described that way. Do you split people into good and bad? Do you have a fear of rejection and abandonment? Do you tend to get attached to people?

There are over 200 varieties of BPD. BPD is similar to PTSD and BP. And if you're a teenager/young adult, these symptoms might be normal for the stage of life you're in.

I wouldn't go diagnosing yourself. BPD is not something you hope to be diagnosed with. If you want to be diagnosed, seek a professional's opinion.

Curious as I've heard the reference to the 200 plus combinations/types of BPD in several other threads. Do you know of any reputable source to read about these? I'd like to read more about that. Thanks!

[continuosly blue]

Just would like to add that it sure sounds like it. But you need to get diagnosed by a professional. For ME , all I cared about was getting "diagnosed".
Meanwhile I've been thru hell and back with all different kinds of treatment. I've wasted my whole life trying to figure out what's "wrong" with me. Just because I'm different than others doesn't mean I'm WRONG , it just means I'm different. I don't believe that we have complete control over our lives. There are too many different variables. Somehow I have to live with what I am and conform to the "norm" if I am to fit into this world.

[tiger8]

Originally Posted by WibblyWobbly

My opinion on your history

1 - It was cyclical originally coming up once a month. This year it got the extra compulsive dysregulation on top of that

2 - Apart from that shopping addiction that was indeed impulsive (mainly because I temporarily could not feel the "reality of money" if that makes sense - I did get back to normal by being able to feel it again and that's why I was able to stop the addiction), I'm not particularly more impulsive than my baseline but sometimes I feel like getting impulsive, except I don't have enough energy to actually get impulsive or I simply don't see the point in taking the action.

3 - No it is not anxious feelings, it is more like my brain puts in overtime doing logical analysis of theories. I am theorizing about things. It's not the "what if" kind of overthinking applied to real life issues. It does feel like racing thoughts sometimes but it has to be a severe episode to be like that. I noticed I have less of that racing thoughts stuff this year, instead I'm more emotional

5 - OK, it was first me making up weird theories, testing them constantly in reality (because I like the scientific way of thinking, that is, you have to verify your theories) then I started making up real weird connections beyond that and then I started to interpret reality in the wrong way, had delusions seeing weird stories overlaying reality and then losing contact with reality overall, especially when my partner/boyfriend at that time (who I was trying to connect to) seemed to sneer at me, that's when I truly got paranoid and thinking he was some foreign malicious serial killer or detective and I lost my memories, I could not remember where I met him first etc., it all got confused up. I tried to fight him then and later the doctor in self-defense when they came for me to take me to the hospital. Well, stuff like this. As for visual hallucinations, I only had them in the corner of my eye. I did get some strong olfactory hallucinations. Auditory not really. I remember these psychotic episodes very clearly btw. It was a bit traumatic.

8 - I don't usually feel depressed, though? Maybe unconsciously? I mean consciously I only have like 5 seconds of feeling strong negative depressive stuff then it goes away for a while.

9 - Which part are you referring to with the dissociation?

10 - I rage usually due to impersonal obstacles, not people, though it's also happened that it was due to people. But I was always capable of rage even when younger and normal, nothing really changed in that area for me. I don't rage more or less often now, it's about the same.

Can I ask you if you have a history of trauma? PTSD and BPD go hand in hand.

If you want to call my psychotic episodes traumatic then maybe that. Including the way my boyfriend at that time handled the second episode (he was completely lacking empathy, he thought some completely impersonal problem solving approach was sufficient, pfft). I don't think it counts as severe enough trauma to be PTSD though. No real trauma in my life otherwise.

[tiger8]

Originally Posted by Bioshock

With me, besides the constant anger and self loathing, the primary indicator is my inability to be alone. But I constantly criticise the people around me.

I hate you, don't leave me mentality.

Oh I don't have any of that.

I'm not really critical of people in a personal way, why should I be? I don't even believe in the concept of "good" vs "bad" if applied in a personal fashion. "Good" to me means it satisfies the reward system in your brain, "bad" means the opposite, lol.

I'm also unable to hate people much, that just would take too much mental or emotional energy or something. I'm someone who doesn't have a lot of emotional energy by default except for the episodes and the compulsive emotional stuff, but outside them, my baseline lacks that. And when I do get emotional it's not really about hating people.

And I'm alone 99% of the time. I imposed isolation for over a decade on myself.

Why should I loathe myself, I'm rather indulgent instead actually, I'm not gentle with myself but I don't judge myself much either.

I am indeed easily irritable though, with all sorts of obstacles that get in my way unexpectedly, I don't tolerate that well. Anger is the emotion that I've always been in touch with in my whole life, I never tried to repress it and I'm unable to repress it anyway.

[tiger8]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

Borderline is the existence of extremes in us that we cannot tolerate at once (hence "dialectical" in DBT). People can't be good and bad at the same time. That's why we fluctuate btwn idealizing and devaluing people. We have an extreme need, an attachment to people, but we also have an extreme fear of abandonment and rejection. Both cannot exist at the same time for us, so we cycle btwn "I love you, I hate you, please don't leave me".

Ok, I don't relate to any of that whatsoever except for the rejection part. I do have a problem with rejection. Hmm, also, I guess, I want to be isolated from people usually but then sometimes I feel like I need people so that's what I fluctuate between. Tho' I usually think that I should just remain isolated... then sometimes that upsets me. Then I realize that I actually unconsciously dread being around and being connected to people. And so on.

It is interesting though, this "I love you, I hate you, please don't leave me" thing, I was never told that by anyone and I'd sure feel confused if someone was behaving like that with me. Um, I prefer consistency in general.

If you think you have BPD

I'm not sure what to think just yet but in the BP (bipolar) forum I was told I sound more BPD than BP.

were you an emotionally sensitive child? Did you experience childhood trauma?

No outstanding trauma. By default I deny my sensitivities I think. I'm sure they exist hidden somewhere. I was the same way with that as a kid.

Both are early indicators of BPD. Do either of your parents suffer from mental illness?

My father could've been on the schizotypal scale. His stuff resembled mild paranoid schizophrenia sometimes but he was never diagnosed with anything, it did not seriously interfere with his life.

Are you emotionally regressed for your age?

Lol I'm an idiot when it comes to emotional matters. So if that's what you mean by it then sure

Do you feel like a child trapped inside of an adults body? It's often described that way.

No

Do you split people into good and bad?

No, that makes no logical sense to me.

Do you have a fear of rejection and abandonment?

Rejection yes, abandonment not sure, if it's there then it must be entirely unconscious.

Do you tend to get attached to people?

No, actually have been struggling with inability to connect to people.

There are over 200 varieties of BPD. BPD is similar to PTSD and BP. And if you're a teenager/young adult, these symptoms might be normal for the stage of life you're in.

I'm 32, my **** started when I was 28

Thanks a lot btw!

[unaluna]

Tell me about your relationship with your mother.

A lot of people here have asked, but you keep avoiding answering. It Certainly is your right to do so, but it makes one suspect the answer is there, in your childhood. I mean it usually is for any of us.

[tiger8]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Tell me about your relationship with your mother.

A lot of people here have asked, but you keep avoiding answering. It Certainly is your right to do so, but it makes one suspect the answer is there, in your childhood. I mean it usually is for any of us.

I'm not sure if I saw a direct question about that before? No problem with answering though, my mother was the only person I was truly ever attached to, but she was really busy with work and work related travel so I did feel like having to ask for her attention a lot and when she was away for long weeks traveling I felt pretty crappy. She did always love me though, I had no doubts about that. Just I wasn't fully satisfied with the amount of attention

Let me know if anything is left unclear or if you can say what this tells you; I was not intentionally avoiding answering

[popuri88]

My first impulse when I read that "do you think of people as good or bad" question is to think it doesn't make sense at all, but when I read real situations where splitting happens I just relate completely. There are other threads about splitting on this forum.

For example, if I don't hear from my boyfriend the whole day and I call him to find out he's just fine and wasn't busy and all I will get angry, assume that he forgot me, that he never really liked me and that he's probably giving attention to someone else, maybe soon he'll be cheating me or something. It's a really overwhelming feeling that makes me assume the worst about him and want to detach fom him.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by lavendersage

Curious as I've heard the reference to the 200 plus combinations/types of BPD in several other threads. Do you know of any reputable source to read about these? I'd like to read more about that. Thanks!

I heard it from Sandy Boone from BPD Global here in San Diego. She used to be a part of NAMI before she created BPD Global, whoch is a place for family and friends of people with BPD to get resources and help.http://bpdglobal.com/

I'm guessing it's a mathematical equation that calculates the different combos of the 6 out of 9 criteria. I also don't know if it include high functioning vs low functioning.

[ScarletPimpernel]

This is just my opinion, but it doesn't sound like you have BPD. But this is why you should get diagnosed by a professional. We all have our own opinions, but they really don't mean anything.

You don't have to be diagnosed to be a part of a forum. If you relate better to people with BPD, then stick it out here. If you relate before to people with BP, then stick it out there.

[Tauren]

Question - you mentioned psychologists, but it sounds like it's at least partly an organic disorder. Have you discussed it with a psychiatrist or your primary care doctor?

I mostly say that because it's unusual for either borderline or bipolar to show up at age 28. Not that it couldn't happen, but it's a lot more common to show up in your teens. I think you need input from a medical doctor.

[tiger8]

Originally Posted by popuri88

My first impulse when I read that "do you think of people as good or bad" question is to think it doesn't make sense at all, but when I read real situations where splitting happens I just relate completely. There are other threads about splitting on this forum.

For example, if I don't hear from my boyfriend the whole day and I call him to find out he's just fine and wasn't busy and all I will get angry, assume that he forgot me, that he never really liked me and that he's probably giving attention to someone else, maybe soon he'll be cheating me or something. It's a really overwhelming feeling that makes me assume the worst about him and want to detach fom him.

Hm I have never had this issue primarily because I never really managed to connect with any of my ex bf's but I remember feeling a bit depressed by a guy regularly not texting me back and me deciding I should not even text any guy much anymore. And I did keep to this decision.

This was a very long time ago. So I guess the difference between me and BPD people is that I'm not able to get angry about romantic interests, I just detach automatically when I perceive rejection or abandonment and then there is no turning back.

If I could actually feel in love then maybe I would get angry in your situation but only if he acts nonchalantly and does the whole thing regularly and spends significantly more time with others / gives significantly more of his attention to others.

[tiger8]

Originally Posted by Tauren

Question - you mentioned psychologists, but it sounds like it's at least partly an organic disorder. Have you discussed it with a psychiatrist or your primary care doctor?

I mostly say that because it's unusual for either borderline or bipolar to show up at age 28. Not that it couldn't happen, but it's a lot more common to show up in your teens. I think you need input from a medical doctor.

Thanks for your input, that's a thought too. Because even though I made sure I'm training consistently, it's just downhill, my shape/fitness is getting worse recently.

Though I do have to say the initial trigger for the whole thing to start 4 years ago was purely psychological, this is for sure. I know as I will never forget that moment

It's also possible it's neither BP nor BPD? Anyway I'm definitely going to get a medical checkup if my training doesn't turn around in the next few weeks.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by tiger8

OK, it was first me making up weird theories, testing them constantly in reality (because I like the scientific way of thinking, that is, you have to verify your theories) then I started making up real weird connections beyond that and then I started to interpret reality in the wrong way, had delusions seeing weird stories overlaying reality and then losing contact with reality overall, especially when my partner/boyfriend at that time (who I was trying to connect to) seemed to sneer at me, that's when I truly got paranoid and thinking he was some foreign malicious serial killer or detective and I lost my memories, I could not remember where I met him first etc., it all got confused up. I tried to fight him then and later the doctor in self-defense when they came for me to take me to the hospital. Well, stuff like this. As for visual hallucinations, I only had them in the corner of my eye. I did get some strong olfactory hallucinations. Auditory not really. I remember these psychotic episodes very clearly btw. It was a bit traumatic.

When this happened were you on medication and/or using drugs?

Non-delusional paranoia?

Broad psychotic symptoms are generally associated with BPD. Hallucinations are quite common even in the general population. Being tired and stressed can definitely cause them. Hearing one's name being called, seeing dead people, ghosts and things in the corner of one's eye are some examples of these types of hallucinations. If these happen from time to time and are not interfering with your life they aren't really worth reporting to a psychiatrist. A lot of psychiatrists will not take them seriously unless other symptoms are present that suggest schizophrenia.

Olfactory hallucinations suggest epilepsy.

[tiger8]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

When this happened were you on medication and/or using drugs?

No. No medication, no other substances.

Non-delusional paranoia?

That paranoia was pretty much delusional. Luckily it was very transient, though. All my delusions were transient. What is non-delusional paranoia?

Broad psychotic symptoms are generally associated with BPD. Hallucinations are quite common even in the general population. Being tired and stressed can definitely cause them. Hearing one's name being called, seeing dead people, ghosts and things in the corner of one's eye are some examples of these types of hallucinations. If these happen from time to time and are not interfering with your life they aren't really worth reporting to a psychiatrist. A lot of psychiatrists will not take them seriously unless other symptoms are present that suggest schizophrenia.

I was not actually hallucinating much. I had more issues with my way of thinking and that distorting reality and also with the transient delusions. I was fully non-functional due to my loss of connection with reality.

Olfactory hallucinations suggest epilepsy.

Not really as I never had epilepsy. I just sometimes hallucinated strong smells that surely didn't exist is all. It was pretty sporadic though.

[Russian9]

Maybe you have both BPD & BP.

[tiger8]

Originally Posted by Russian9

Maybe you have both BPD & BP.

Quite honestly, I'm still at a loss as to what seems so BPD specific in my descriptions.