CBT and DBT

I have been learning, over the years, to deal with my unruly emotions using CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) and DBT (Dialectal Behavioural Therapy). I have had a lot of CBT but I am having a hard time finding anyone that knows anything about DBT. Does anyone know where I can find some of these tools online?

I really like the website dbtselfhelp.com
There is a TON of info there!

Thank you so much zooropa! That was very helpful Hope you're having a good day.

I love that site, I recommend it to people all the time. They also recently did a site upgrade and added lots of stuff. My DBT therapist is the one who first told me about it. I hope you find some of the info you're looking for there.

First day of IOP for DBT.
DISASTER!!!

They left me standing in an overcrowded, LOUD, waiting room for twenty minutes.
I told the woman at the desk that I was told someone would come to get me, and explain the program. She went about her business. I was on the verge of a panic attack, and asked her if I could go have a ciggie. She answered the phone. I went out anyway. When I came back, I went to her again, and asked what was going on? Only *then* did she understand that I was left hanging in the lurch! (Same woman who put me through to answering machines, and said I hung up on her a few weeks back, when I was trying to meet a counselor in Providence! And there's sooooo many talented people without a job.... *sigh*)

Nurse comes out and takes me. Starts asking me all kinds of questions I was not prepared for. And I told her so. Then tells me I'm going to be pee tested!
Now, there's nothing to worry about, but, WTF???
Totally unexpected and, well, shocking!!!
They want me to feel safe?
With *this* treatment?
I'm wondering, "What's NEXT???"

She asked about things going on. I told her many things, then, she went on to other stuff. Guess she thought I was done...you know what they say about assumptions!

Went to the program late, of course. They were in the middle of something, of which I had no clue. I just *love* that! NOT!
I sat and listened. 5 YOUNG people and one man, a bit younger than I. He monopolized the room, the conversation, the clinicians running the discussion. I said nothing at all, until....
...Until he badgered this clinician with multiple questions in a row, while she was trying to answer the first one. And I said, "You've got to let her answer!" And I said, "Sorry," to the clinician.

Bad to worse. He stopped talking completely. He glared at me. When reading a piece about anger, he directed his own commentary towards me, (and the clinicians did nothing.) Out for a break, when I went up to the group, he walked away. I left, and told him clearly, he could return. Back, after the break, another clinician leading a "safety" something??? This jerk says, "Do you feel safe, Debbie?" which starts another whole thing. The clinician directs questions to me, I say I'm fine. The jerk starts up, "I'll say what happened, and proceeds to LIE!!!

I picked up my stuff, and left the room. Crying again. Asked for the nurse or someone at the desk, (Yup, the same woman who left me standing for over 20 minutes.) Waiting again, I told her I was going out for a cig, and THREE women came out!!!
Jimminy Christmas!!! Are you kidding!!!

I told them what happened. The clinician wanted me to "talk" to this jerk. I said, "Not now, no!" And I made it clear that I wasn't there to listen to him overtake the room, nor did I deserve his acts of retribution. (Besides, I had *already* gone up to him, in the group, remember? She didn't!)

But, I was there for ME to learn from HER! Nurse completely understood. Clinician didn't "get it" at all. Then, wanted to set up a "safety plan" for me for the evening. 911 and Samaratians.... Didn't listen when I said I was not in crisis, and didn't need that at ALL!

Yea, *this* is helpful. NOT!
I'm taking a mental health day tomorrow from this mental health IOP!
I don't think my mental health can take another day like today!

I tried to nap after I got home. The tile workers came to work in the bathroom. Now the painter is here. No nap for me...

Peace!

Sorry for going off topic.
But, here's a GREAT resource online for DBT:

http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/index.html

There's LOTS of links; not just the ones that are showing there. Each link leads to others. There's worksheets and articles and explanations and so much more.

It gave me a great insight before I went in today. Too bad it was such a bad start -- for *me.* But, I won't let that hold me back. Opposite actions! I'll go back!

Peace!

Geez, sunflower, that sounds intense all right! Are there any other programs/other hospitals?

Good explanation/ideas and list of books: http://www.goodtherapy.org/Dialectic...l-Therapy.html

Thanks, Perna!
I'll check them out right after Yom Kippur. I have to get ready for it now.

Today was a *bit* better,
except the clinician, (a different one), who told me that all I have to do about my chronic back pain, (2001 - present), is "think of something different, and it will go away." I've had back surgery, years of PT, pain pills, (which I stopped, because I will *not* get addicted), and now chiropractic, and neurological investigations. But, of course, this clinician KNOWS MORE!

When I told him NOT to go there, he continued!
Thus, in DBT terminology, he "invalidated" me!
I got so upset, I was crying, pissed off angry again!
Didn't hear a word he said afterwards,
and it took everything I had not to walk out again!
I should have, though.

I did report it to my case manager.
Right afterwards.
I expect it will *not* happen again.
If it does, the crappola *will* hit the fan,
believe me.
I didn't go there to be abused by a JACKARSE!

If and when he gets his medical license,
AND he becomes my doctor,
Then, and ONLY then
will he have ANY right to discuss my back!

But, in the context of a DBT clinician,
He *certainly* has no right to invalidate me!!!

Anyway, gotta go,
So, thanks for the link!

Peace!

Gee, Sunflower, you are really going through it--this is not the DBT I experienced at all. I went through two courses of it, too.....I guess like everything else, good leadership matters. All the proper information can be in place, but you need good therapists/doctors to head it up.

I am surprised, too, that the guy talked about your back--and that all you had to do basically was to "think good thoughts." How simplistic and naive can someone get! (I, too, suffer from spinal pain. I would have thought myself out of it a long time ago, if it were that easy.)

I'm glad to hear you're hanging in. Please don't give up on the DBT. If need be, then you might be able to find other practitioners (and surroundings) that are more professional and helpful.

Well, Yom Kippur services are over...
And I've found out something new on Friday afternoon...
Right before I went to Kol Niedre services.
(Preparations for Yom Kippur)

I was confused about a number of things...
Including the "pee" test.
I just didn't "get it."
Why would that be included in a DBT class???

And the "sober drunk" who told me how to take care of my back....
Dry drunk is more like it....
Knows everything about everything. Yea!

Well, these things didn't "add up" for me.
So, I looked on the web site.

HELLO!!!!
It's a DUAL DIAGNOSIS PROGRAM!!!

Yea.
It's for people with mental health issues, (I *do* have anxiety -- with good cause!)
AND/INCLUDING substance abuse issues!!! Co-Morbid diagnosis!!! Or, dual diagnosis!

Now, my counselor and I have -- NOT ONCE -- spoken about substance abuse issues at ALL! So...
WHERE THE HELL IS THIS COMING FROM?????

Further, this *so called* "diagnosis" goes on my health insurance!!!
I'm on temporary disability!
How will I *ever* be able to buy an insurance plan that I can afford
with is BOGUS claim on my file????
I am being HARMED by my counselor,
With this referral,
And never - EVER - being told about it!!!

I am NOT going back to East Bay IOP for the DBT program.
Now that I know what it is.

And my counselor will have to make some corrections to her record,
AND to my insurance company.

OY VEY!!!

Please some one tell me,
Is there *anything* else that can go wrong for me?

No, never mind...
And only because, you don't know what *has* already happened...

Peace....

I called and left messages at the IOP DBT clinic, and at the clinic where I see my social worker. I also wrote an email to the agency regarding the IOP DBT program for dual diagnosed clients. I explained what happened and that I would not be returning. And I asked them for their assistance in correcting this problem with my health insurance, explaining why it was an issue.

I asked them for a prompt reply. If I don't get any type of acknowledgement within a day or two, I'm going down there myself, and demanding to see someone in charge. Because this "diagnosis" is not going to stay on my record. I'll never be able to afford health insurance with that type of a pre-existing condition, for crying out loud!

Please ask the universe for help that this will actually be resolved smoothly. I honestly cannot handle another crisis right now. There's been too many in my life in too short of a time period. Thanks....

Peace!

Well, I called to let them know I would not be coming into the program on Monday. One of the clinicians listened, but did not "hear" what I had to say about my health insurance concerns. She also discounted me about the substance abuse part of the program, stating, "Many people have problems with substance abuse."

That's true enough, Melissa, but, we're not TALKING about "many people." We're talking about ME! Why should *I* be humiliated with a pee test when I don't do drugs or have a substance abuse problem? I have anxiety and depression -- THAT'S why I'm here! DUH!

She refused to hear me at all. She then TOLD me what I *really* thought, and HUNG UP ON ME!!!

Yea, she's a GREAT model of DBT!
NOT!

I called my counselor, and I'm going to a different program next week.

A few hours later, a woman from that first program called me, as a result of my letter. She said I should have *never* been told or forced to have had any urine tests. There are two different DBT programs....

She also stated that Melissa, who hung up on me was *completely* unprofessional. (Ya think?)

She absolutely heard my concerns about my health insurance problems, and AGREED with me, that I would have a very difficult time trying to buy insurance with that dual diagnosis on my record.

In short, I was VALIDATED in EVERY concern I had.
Where the clinicians, whose JOB it is to teach the DBT skills to me did nothing but INVALIDATE me at every turn, this woman validated me. She and she alone understood. The others took my concerns as a personal affront! They personalized something that was NOT personal to them at all.... Good grief!!!

So, when she asked me if I wanted to return, I just said, "no." It was not a good experience from the start. And I thanked her for "hearing" me.
I do believe she actually understood that too...

I start next week at a different program. It's a five day program, but, it's full days. And if I need more, I'll be able to stay. When I spoke to the woman about the program I'll be entering, I explained to her what had already happened... I wanted her to be aware. I don't want the same thing to happen again. I don't think it will, by her response.

Thanks for reading, if you are.
I'm still willing to try.

Peace!

Dear Sunflower55,

I am just.... I can't even put words on the things that come to mind over your experience, no matter the kind of therapy at any facility. You do not deserve to be treated that way. I am glad you did not go back and hopefully started the other program. How is it going?

I was introduced to DBT over 9 years ago, after being with CBT for a long time and many other therapies before that. CBT is incorporated in DBT and has worked wonders for me. I will no longer go to any other therapist but a truly DBT trained therapist and I ask their credentials; 1 course does not make them DBT trained. However, as you did, no matter the therapy, being treated as you were, I too would have left and found someone else. My experience with a truly trained one, sounds nothing like what you experienced, in the skills class (group) you went to the therapist will guide the session, not the other way around. They are there to teach skills and skills class is weekly but it is NOT group psychotherapy. They do use personal examples from the participant's lives but briefly, not dominating the class.

Then you meet on another occasion (weekly or more) one-on-one individually with a therapist, for more individual issues; often times it is a different therapist than those who conduct the skills classes but the same one every week for individual. Sometimes out of necessity it is the same person for individual and skills class depending on the program. The program I initially went to was 6-7 months, was to be repeated, and could be as often as needed. There are graduate programs and some just stay with a therapist even after 1 "round"/program, depending on the person, insurance, etc.

The DBT experiences I have had, and there have been many in several states, have not even come close to your experience. The facility seems to have some issues besides the ones with their program, asking for a drug test? I can't imagine.

I am impressed with your strength and courage in speaking up for yourself, finding the right provider for you, and continuing with therapy, DBT or not. I just know it was a life-saver for me and the skills continue to be. I wish you much success as you move forward. I hope you will let us know how you are doing. Wishing you all the best.