[coffee_lover_91]

I have a question, and it is one to which I would very much like an answer.

Here's my problem: the things people say to me when they are angry stick to me.

More specifically, they can't take it back after they have said whatever it was, because I believe it. It stays under my skin as infallible truth. I have met apologies with acceptance, I understand that anger can be blinding and change a person's perceptions, and I understand that the natural thing to do it make amends and let go. But what I often find is that when people come back to me and say "I'm sorry for what I said I didn't mean it; it wasn't really true" I find myself unable (I have tried) to feel that what they are saying while they apologize is actually the truth, even if they later regret having told it. Perhaps I see that whatever was said in anger was said without filters, or judgement of consequence, and therefore, must be the truth of what they think? To be clear though, I am perfectly capable of forgiveness; I forgive the anger itself just fine, as well as whatever else applies. I understand the concept of apology. I apologize readily to others whenever I mess up in any way, and acknowledge readily what my part on the situation was and will happily explain my own emotional or misguided motives if it is called for. But somehow, the whole "I didn't mean it" thing just doesn't work or something. Why even say it if it isn't true?

I try not to say things that are not true. And I have been given to understand that a normal person's response to an apology is to easily dismiss whatever angry words were said. So, for others, "it wasn't true" becomes an acceptable truth, but for me it doesn't.

Is something wrong with me? Is there a clinical term for this? Is there a book I can read about how to be a better person in this regard? Does anyone else have this experience, and if so, is it connected to a disorder or syndrome or something?

[CANDC]

Coffeelover, welcome to Psych Central (PC)
I will try to answer your question. You say angry words stick to you. It may be more correct to say you grasp angry thoughts and will not let them go. As long as you hold onto those thoughts and will not let them go, nothing anyone will say can change your grasping those angry thoughts. They are no more true than the polite apologies.

What is painful is for you to continue grasping the anger. I have found a way for myself to go beyond anger and sadness, to release them. And then they start to fall away.

Thicht Nhat Hahn is a Buddhist master who also embraces Christianity. His book on dealing with anger could be a life changing experience, no matter what religious beliefs you embrace
http://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Thic...e%20Flames.pdf

His books often suggest exercises - I encourage you to read only a few pages or a chapter during a session and try some of the exercises suggested

PC is here for you. Feel free to post in other forums
Coping with Emotions - Forums at Psych Central

Community Liasons are more than willing to help if you wish to private message them

[jelly-bean]

I don't think you are wrong in the way you feel. I quite often feel that an apology is just lip service to get the offender out of the room in a good way. I don't always feel like that but sometimes.....

[Ripose]

Usually their facial expression, eyes, body language and tone of voice will indicate if they are being sincere.

[coffee_lover_91]

thanks everyone for your thoughts. id like replies to keep coming, cuz i like as many perspectives as i can get. as for the thought of "grasping" i feel that sounds like an active verb--as if it is something that i am actively doing in order to make it happen. thats not how i feel about it though. sometimes its like losing an argument with myself over it after the fact. ill defiinitely check out those resources though.

[Mygrandjourney]

Originally Posted by coffee_lover_91

I have a question, and it is one to which I would very much like an answer.

Here's my problem: the things people say to me when they are angry stick to me.
(snip)

Is something wrong with me? Is there a clinical term for this? Is there a book I can read about how to be a better person in this regard? Does anyone else have this experience, and if so, is it connected to a disorder or syndrome or something?

Curious: Is it one (or several) person/people in particular and what is your relationship with them?
There are many self help books on this subject, depending on the specifics of the situation. Perhaps something about assertive communication skills would help. I came across a book called, "Coping with Difficult People" by Robert Bramson years ago that identified several types and suggestions for effective responses. You can find it on Amazon or perhaps your local library can get it for you. I don't know if it's still in print.
Best of Luck!

[Perna]

Hi, Coffee Lover, I'm not sure I understand "which" way you are having problems. If I say to you, "You talk too much, just shut up!" and then apologize, are you still focused on thinking I think you talk too much and believing that or that I'm not sorry for having said that to you, that I don't really like you and am secretly glad I finally told you?

The problem I use to have was the first one, where someone would tell me I talked too much and it would hurt because it was, in fact, true. I got over that by realizing that I know it's true and I am working to change that, to learn better ways and that learning to change my behavior takes time. Knowing that I know that about myself and am compassionate to myself I can get a little angry/disappointed that the person snapped and said this without thinking, without knowing me very well or trying to help me with their insight instead of just trying to push me away. I also know, as you pointed out, they were just having a bad day of their own and were pushing me away because of forces inside themselves, their own problems and that is not about me! So, now, when they apologize, it is still their thing only now they are working to make amends with me and themselves and it is my turn to be kind and tell them, "No, it's all right, I'm glad you said what you did because I do often talk too much. I hope in the future you can help me with that, remind me more gently (and give a wry grin at the "shut up" not being gentle) and, in turn, I can help you?"

As you see, most of the difficulty lies inside yourself and how you want to think about and work with yourself.

[coffee_lover_91]

Sine theres a bit of confusion as to exactly what i mean about this,

Here's an example: a very close family member of mine told me in anger what a selfish person i am. even after the apology of "i am sorry i blew up on you" i continued to believe that from this person's perspective, i am truly the most selfish person they have met. And it must be true, if they said it. i think perhaps i percieve anger the way many people do drunkenness-- there is an adage that says there is truth in wine. it basically means that because of the lowered inhibitions, a person will say what they really feel after they have had a few. Anger, perhaps, seems to lower inhibitions, much the way alcohol does--it makes people less afraid of consequences.

And despite how many times i have been told that anger distorts perceptions and does not bring out the truth, angry insulting words seem to have more staying power.

my problem is that the apology, even though they are looking and sounding sincere, doesnt feel like the truth. Instead, the insulting comment, does. And even days later, sometimes i feel the sting of what an awful selfish person i am. And it doesnt matter to me that i always try to have the best intentions. Now, i am not a cynical person. i dont percieve lip service. i see the sincerity. Even when a completely different person, unrelated to the situation tells me something to the contrary, the comment about selfishness feels more true. It feels like truth because somehow, the things a person says when they are angry feel more true than anything uplifting that anyone says while happy.

I can smile, attempt to be helpful and apologize sincerely all i want. it still tends to bother me that the person ever said it at all.

thanks for all the replies. keep em coming

[Altered Moment]

I think it is up to you to decide if there is truth in what they said or not. Even if said in anger and they apologize there still may be truth in it. Accepting apologies and forgiving is a great thing. It takes a mature person to do that. It takes an even more mature person to examine what may be true or not be true in what they said. Self examination is a hard thing. The fact they said it doesn't make it true. You would have to honestly look at the evidence on both sides. If someone said you were worthless than dismiss it as false right away. If someone said you are sometimes snobbish or withdrawn or something then maybe take a look at it.

If everything sticks as truth not matter what is said then I am not sure. That would sound like a self esteem issue and putting to much value in what others think and say. Your self worth doesn't come from what others think.

[Altered Moment]

There might be truth in the thing about drunks and less inhibition. I used to be a drunk and said a lot of things. Not all were true though.

If someone says you are selfish and your can take an honest look at yourself and see where sometimes you are selfish than that is very mature. We are all selfish at times. Investing a lot in what others say in anger or drunk or gossiping is not worth your while. People are people. What matters is what you think of you.

[vital]

Originally Posted by coffee_lover_91

Sine theres a bit of confusion as to exactly what i mean about this,

Here's an example: a very close family member of mine told me in anger what a selfish person i am. even after the apology of "i am sorry i blew up on you" i continued to believe that from this person's perspective, i am truly the most selfish person they have met. And it must be true, if they said it. i think perhaps i percieve anger the way many people do drunkenness-- there is an adage that says there is truth in wine. it basically means that because of the lowered inhibitions, a person will say what they really feel after they have had a few. Anger, perhaps, seems to lower inhibitions, much the way alcohol does--it makes people less afraid of consequences.

And despite how many times i have been told that anger distorts perceptions and does not bring out the truth, angry insulting words seem to have more staying power.

my problem is that the apology, even though they are looking and sounding sincere, doesnt feel like the truth. Instead, the insulting comment, does. And even days later, sometimes i feel the sting of what an awful selfish person i am. And it doesnt matter to me that i always try to have the best intentions. Now, i am not a cynical person. i dont percieve lip service. i see the sincerity. Even when a completely different person, unrelated to the situation tells me something to the contrary, the comment about selfishness feels more true. It feels like truth because somehow, the things a person says when they are angry feel more true than anything uplifting that anyone says while happy.

I can smile, attempt to be helpful and apologize sincerely all i want. it still tends to bother me that the person ever said it at all.

thanks for all the replies. keep em coming

Hi coffee lover.

I looooove coffee myself, although I have decided to cut way down.

I also think I know what's going on with you because it used to happen to me constantly. Not everybody knows this, but very often when someone is depressed, they will also be hyper-hyper sensitive to criticism or praise. If someone says something insulting to you, it will "stick". It will come up in your mind again and again and again and again and again and again and again and...more again(s). It will happen compulsively. Did I get that right? Notice that this is almost exactly the same thing as "holding a grudge."

Now, the thing is, I believe you. I think that it is very likely that you are CORRECT in your perception of the insult and correct that the person continues to think that about you even after the apology. The insight that I only recently had about this is that the correctness of your perceptions is misdirecting you away from the true source of the problem. The true source of the problem is not the people who have insulted your or even the particular thoughts or feelings you have about it. The true underlying problem is that you are having thoughts and feelings in general in a compulsive manner without deciding to have those thoughts and feelings. The particular feelings, thoughts and the people involved are incidental.

This is all my opinion, but I really think I'm right about this and I really think I know what to do about it too. It's described here

http://forums.psychcentral.com/depre...n-escaped.html

- vital

[coffee_lover_91]

Thanks again for the replies everyone!

Vital, your post and link were especially helpful. I have been chronically stressed and have thought for a while that I may be depressed, but, when I take online depression/stress tests, I come out at moderate. I do find that i am hyper-sensitive to praise and insults, and i do relate to the again and again line. Often, when I ask people in my own life for their thoughts they think that what i am doing is actively holding a grudge. I am not. I am convinced that you believe me on that point too.

I read the link and loved it. What i loved most were the simplicity of the method and the fact that you arent saying everything thats already been said. i really hope that your theories can become more than just a single online thread; it sounds pretty revolutionary to me, and probably does to many other people.

Thanks again

Conditioned response isn't really revolutionary. And, personally, I believe that some psych problems go a little too deep to be affected by it.

Anyway, I hear what you say coffeelover. I also struggle with negative comments. I believe that the things said in anger are more representative of others' true feelings.....I am trying to change my views. I do not hold grudges and do not WANT to think this way.

I think a lot has to do with self-esteem....If I had a solid foundation, then I wouldn't believe what is said.

It makes sense to me. I suffer from depression and anxiety and the self esteem issue is a big factor in it.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to fix it. Affirmations don't do anything for me...

[coffee_lover_91]

its not the conditioning I found revolutionary; perhaps I was too vague. What I was most excited about was the theory of unconsciously turning away from the decision making process as being the cause of depression. And I did say I loved the simplicity of the method--maybe it would be better to say I love that there's nothing to lose, and it looks manageable--no hour of meditation, no problem analysis, no extended pen-to-paper time, no expectation that everything will change if only i could...fill in the blank. Everyone knows the symptoms. It is generally accepted that taking back control in one's own life is on the right track, and in line with that, people have advocated for taking steps such as doing just one thing for yourself that you find enjoyable each day. Mindfulness is also proven helpful, and i have found in my own experience that the two are connected.

What I found different in Vital's explanation was that the power to take back control was not coupled with any blame, direct or indirect. None of it said "it's kind of your fault that you're in this hole--and since it's kind of your fault, it is kind of your responsibility to get your butt out of it..." Vital linked it instead to the biological ''fight, flight, or freeze" stress response. And it makes some things make sense in the context of depression that didn't seem to fit before. And what i found different in the method is just how well it fit the need for instantaneous gratification. I played the game for about twenty minutes last night and in that small window of time i saw difference between doing something and deciding to do it. Being that I have some "Type A" tendencies, i found that important.

As for some psych problems being deeper, i dont argue anything at all against that. In my experience, that sentiment makes a lot of sense to me also.

Sorry if i was confusing or vague.

Thanks for keeping the responses coming
And Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!!!

Originally Posted by coffee_lover_91

its not the conditioning I found revolutionary; perhaps I was too vague. What I was most excited about was the theory of unconsciously turning away from the decision making process as being the cause of depression. And I did say I loved the simplicity of the method--maybe it would be better to say I love that there's nothing to lose, and it looks manageable--no hour of meditation, no problem analysis, no extended pen-to-paper time, no expectation that everything will change if only i could...fill in the blank. Everyone knows the symptoms. It is generally accepted that taking back control in one's own life is on the right track, and in line with that, people have advocated for taking steps such as doing just one thing for yourself that you find enjoyable each day. Mindfulness is also proven helpful, and i have found in my own experience that the two are connected.

What I found different in Vital's explanation was that the power to take back control was not coupled with any blame, direct or indirect. None of it said "it's kind of your fault that you're in this hole--and since it's kind of your fault, it is kind of your responsibility to get your butt out of it..." Vital linked it instead to the biological ''fight, flight, or freeze" stress response. And it makes some things make sense in the context of depression that didn't seem to fit before. And what i found different in the method is just how well it fit the need for instantaneous gratification. I played the game for about twenty minutes last night and in that small window of time i saw difference between doing something and deciding to do it. Being that I have some "Type A" tendencies, i found that important.

As for some psych problems being deeper, i dont argue anything at all against that. In my experience, that sentiment makes a lot of sense to me also.

Sorry if i was confusing or vague.

Thanks for keeping the responses coming
And Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!!!

I didn't find you to be vague at all. Whatever works for you.
Happy Thanksgiving to you also.