[DechanDawa]

Something new happened to me during this last big bout of depression I am trying to pull out of. I have discovered I have a lot of anger towards myself. I don't physically self-harm but I think I punish myself a lot for being such a life loser.

This situation I am describing is something new and I think it might have to do with self-confidence and self-esteem. I guess the long depression eroded both.

Just because I know I have a lot of self-anger doesn't stop it. It feels justifed.

I could see if I don't tackle the self-confidence, self-esteem issue it could lead to a more aggressive personality. I have noticed that people with low self-esteem seem to be rather aggressive if you scratch the surface.
'
I am sorry if I sound confused. I have just recently discovered all these negative things. I am trying to get in to see a counselor because I think maybe I could get some help with dealing with these things. Are they common for others suffering from or coming out of depression?

[Skeezyks]

Self-anger is simply the way I live my life... & it is justified...

[Yours_Truly]

This scares the **** out of me. I've had the same thoughts about myself lately.

[MickeyCheeky]

No need to be angry at yourself.. I'm sorry you feel this way though.

[Fuzzybear]

[DechanDawa]

I realize I don't have time to be angry with myself because I have to figure out how to survive. Yes, I have been barely functional the last few years. It has already happened so no use stressing out more about it. I can see where mental health issues just make a person feel weak. Well, I have to save myself so even if I am weak I can't afford to think about it.

I have heard depression described as anger turned inwards - that was a pretty apt description in my case.

I know the feeling myself. I also justify my feelings of anger, whenever I have them.
I suggest looking at your depression as a complex process created by many things.
One of them is being angry towards yourself.
You can then ask yourself why you feel this way.
Another question you can ask is what you tell yourself when you feel this way.
These question can make you understand your situation and your feelings, and you can move more steps forward in unraveling the mystery of depression.
All things I say here are from personal experience. I know how it feels.

[DechanDawa]

Last night I was watching a YouTube video of Marsh Linehan (the person who created DBT) and she said "acceptance" was at the core of her program. I have a DBT workbook but I am going to be doing more research and study of DBT. There isn't a DBT group in my area. I'll do it on my own. I think acceptance is a major area I need to work on.

[JustJace2u]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Last night I was watching a YouTube video of Marsh Linehan (the person who created DBT) and she said "acceptance" was at the core of her program. I have a DBT workbook but I am going to be doing more research and study of DBT. There isn't a DBT group in my area. I'll do it on my own. I think acceptance is a major area I need to work on.

I'm just starting to use CBT and DBT with my t. When I met with her yesterday we discussed acceptance. My 'assignment' over the next 2 weeks is to learn to accept those things which I have no control over.

Originally Posted by JustJace2u

I'm just starting to use CBT and DBT with my t. When I met with her yesterday we discussed acceptance. My 'assignment' over the next 2 weeks is to learn to accept those things which I have no control over.

That sounds like a good path to take, I myself struggle with accepting what I cannot change.

[JustJace2u]

Originally Posted by prefabsprout

That sounds like a good path to take, I myself struggle with accepting what I cannot change.

I think I'm finally coming to the point where I have to accept that this is just the way things are and that I am doing the best I can to handle them. My t, my pdoc and my mom have all made comments that there is obviously something in me that has some glimmer of hope, otherwise I probably wouldn't be seeking the help to begin with. I've gone down this path before though and I just hope that this time I can stick with it and not give up so easily.

[MommaD]

For years psych theory said depression was "anger turned inward". It's been a while since my days in school so I doubt they're still saying this, but given how I feel and how many others have posted, I think there's some truth to it. Much of my depression self talk is tied up in heavy duty self criticism and self anger. Acceptance is an issue for a lot of us I think.
I'm in the process of listening to Radical Self Acceptance--a series of dvds. Might be something of use in them. Heaven knows I could use a little self acceptance. If anyone has any other tips/ideas to offer on this, please pass them along. Help would be greatly appreciated

[DechanDawa]

Yesterday I saw a counselor who practices Gestalt therapy. He had me sit in one chair and talk to another empty chair pretending it was my emotional self of something like that. I know this is a valid form of therapy but for me it was silly and ineffective. This first session was no-cost but I don't think I will be going back.

I think it makes sense that depression contains a lot of anger both at self and others. Rather than circumvent it with feel good band aides I think it would be better to challenge it head-on.

I like Marsha Linehan's (creater: DBT) idea that we can both accept ourselves as we are right now while seeing we also need to change in order to be happier.

[Lost_in_the_woods]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Yesterday I saw a counselor who practices Gestalt therapy. He had me sit in one chair and talk to another empty chair pretending it was my emotional self of something like that. I know this is a valid form of therapy but for me it was silly and ineffective. This first session was no-cost but I don't think I will be going back.

I think it makes sense that depression contains a lot of anger both at self and others. Rather than circumvent it with feel good band aides I think it would be better to challenge it head-on.

I like Marsha Linehan's (creater: DBT) idea that we can both accept ourselves as we are right now while seeing we also need to change in order to be happier.

DBT and Gesault (schema therapy) are very closely related..just different approaches. I greatly prefer DBT as well. Talking to an empty chair is both ridiculous and well redundant for me being dxd with DID...spend a lot of time talking to ourselves. I makes us feel on display and ingenuine feeling forced to do so..not a circus act!

DBT I like...but Marsha, I can't stand...I get an angry defiant feeling watching/hearing her speak. I find her tone to be very condescending...makes me feel childish violent rage inside...
I'm surprised I guess that you enjoy listening to her

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Lost_in_the_woods

DBT and Gesault (schema therapy) are very closely related..just different approaches. I greatly prefer DBT as well. Talking to an empty chair is both ridiculous and well redundant for me being dxd with DID...spend a lot of time talking to ourselves. I makes us feel on display and ingenuine feeling forced to do so..not a circus act!

DBT I like...but Marsha, I can't stand...I get an angry defiant feeling watching/hearing her speak. I find her tone to be very condescending...makes me feel childish violent rage inside...
I'm surprised I guess that you enjoy listening to her

Great reply. I meant I liked the DBT model as Marsha Linehan created it. I can see where you would react to her as you did as yes, she really does come off in videos like you said. I was talking more about that I liked the DBT philosophy. I don't particular like listening to Marsha Linehan in her videos. I am just trying to find something that works.

I was very interested in what you had to say about Gestalt and DBT being similar. You see, I wasn't thinking of it like this but it is interesting and I am going to look a bit closer at both for similarities;

I have to say I got completely thrown off by the talking to the empty chair thing. It immediately made me feel dissociated and I don't have DID. It was very uncomfortable. I really don't want to separate out various parts of my personality like that. I appreciated your reply. It really has given me food for thought.

Best wishes to you on your path.

[Onward2wards]

I suspect one "leg" of depression may be emotions turned inward period - not just anger. I have been called an "expert emotional stuffer." It isn't that I hide emotions from myself, it's that various fears prevent me from expressing or doing anything WITH some emotions.

States of mind you could call discouragement, learned helplessness, etc. allow the build up of unmet emotional needs until anyone can feel like a human pressure cooker.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Onward2wards

I suspect one "leg" of depression may be emotions turned inward period - not just anger. I have been called an "expert emotional stuffer." It isn't that I hide emotions from myself, it's that various fears prevent me from expressing or doing anything WITH some emotions.

States of mind you could call discouragement, learned helplessness, etc. allow the build up of unmet emotional needs until anyone can feel like a human pressure cooker.

So it would seem that the emotions are giving the information to "act" to change things for the better? I am beginning to think my anger at myself is entirely justified as I let my life go to hell.

I am not surprised you felt uncomfortable with the chair thing - it sounds gimmicky to me.

Hope you can find a better fit T.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by prefabsprout

I am not surprised you felt uncomfortable with the chair thing - it sounds gimmicky to me.

Hope you can find a better fit T.

I think it is hard because finances are a problem but I don't know.

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

So it would seem that the emotions are giving the information to "act" to change things for the better? I am beginning to think my anger at myself is entirely justified as I let my life go to hell.

Dechan - we all make mistakes, all we can do is learn from them and do what we can to get back on the right road.

Anger is a normal emotion in the spectrum of emotions but if it is too often or extreme then it can be destructive and hamper our progress (it uses up a lot of energy). My take for what it's worth - but I hope you will not beat yourself up, you sound like you are coming out of a tough patch and IMO you need to give yourself kindness and compassion.

I actually found getting my diagnosis of bipolar to be a relief. I was blaming myself for my differences my entire life beforehand.

That doesn't mean I don't get frustrated or even loathe myself on those occasions my behaviour has gotten the best of me.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by prefabsprout

Dechan - we all make mistakes, all we can do is learn from them and do what we can to get back on the right road.

Anger is a normal emotion in the spectrum of emotions but if it is too often or extreme then it can be destructive and hamper our progress (it uses up a lot of energy). My take for what it's worth - but I hope you will not beat yourself up, you sound like you are coming out of a tough patch and IMO you need to give yourself kindness and compassion.

Thank you very much. You are totally right, as usual. You are a pretty wise person, you know? I am getting ready for work and when I read your little message here I realized that I was already getting all wound up before the day even started and that it wasn't a nice way to treat myself. I haven't yet been at the new job a month but I am feeling pressure to level up. Everyone who trains me says it "takes time" to learn how to do the job...but at the same time it is a very fast-paced environment and one has to keep up. I need to have an attitude of being a little easier on myself because you are right...I am coming out of a very serious depression and am still seriously depressed. My attempt to find mental health care has not resulted in support. There was the Gestalt guy who did the "empty chair" therapy. I emailed him that I didn't like it and he emailed me back and suggested "next time" we do "puppet play" during the session. I think not! Thanks for your message which I will carry with me throughout today. Have a good day yourself! Your contributions on PC are always so wonderful.

[Onward2wards]

I sometimes see anger at myself as being justified too. I have had to ask myself "well, frustration at repeated mistakes may be understandable, but what am i going to DO with it?" Just repetitively beating myself up on an emotional level doesn't accomplish anything to alleviate what I'm angry about.

I've tried the puppet therapy once - didn't do anything for me because I didn't really grasp the concept at the time. I've used the empty chair technique on myself - no therapist present, I read a book and thought "hmmm, let's try that!" - and that was an eye-opener. I apparently have some interesting "baggage". >.<