[DechanDawa]

Everything I have read says one should share information about having suicidal ideation. Up until last December I kept it to myself. A brother wrote to me and said I should share this information so that I could receive help.

I followed this advice and since December 2916 in real life I self disclosed with crisis hotline people, my health care provider, two therapists I was interviewing, my oldest friend, a psychiatrist who did an assessment on me last year, a psychologist at my health care provider, and four family members.

Well, the outcome has been that the suicidal ideation somewhat decreased and then came back.

One brother disowned me today. He intimated I did not have mental problems but rather had numerous character flaws such as being selfish and self destructive. He said I should just go ahead and commit suicide!

I feel like my little experiment of self-disclosure has been a miserable failure. It seems to me it did more harm than good. I feel pretty traumatized right now by what my brother said.

[JDH]

I would say that your brother has a serious character flaw of his own; I don't know the relationship you two had, but apparently there were issues between you.

All in all, I think it is better to disclose suicide ideation as you dd, even though you may think it was not helpful. You are still alive; things can change - go on the best you can - almost no one has it easy. Your own pain is unique to you, and I can understand that. Try to alter your thoughts; they are the key to how you feel, the key to your emotions.
All the best!

[Thunder Bow]

He was being judgemental and blind, showing he has some issues of his own.

[Skeezyks]

I can't say that self-disclosure has ever been of much benefit to me. Mostly I just ended up feeling exposed & foolish. Now I pretty-much just keep it all to myself...

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Skeezyks

I can't say that self-disclosure has ever been of much benefit to me. Mostly I just ended up feeling exposed & foolish. Now I pretty-much just keep it all to myself...

Exactly.

I do not tell family. But I do have to listen and sympathize when I have to hear about their mental health issues....

I don't want to be one of them....they want the sympathy. They want attention. They want coddling. They want to be noticed and pitied.

I don't want those things.....

(I don't think)

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by sophiesmom

I do not tell family. But I do have to listen and sympathize when I have to hear about their mental health issues....

I don't want to be one of them....they want the sympathy. They want attention. They want coddling. They want to be noticed and pitied.

I don't want those things.....

(I don't think)

So is that what disclosure means to you? I thought initially that my brother was saying that it was better to discuss it with people. The most helpful were crisis hotline people. I have also read countless times online that one should tell a trusted friend or family member. I really wasn't wanting to engender pity of sympathy but rather ideas as to how to improve.

As far as coddling and attention...everyone wants that. I don't believe in tough love at all. I believe that love motivates people.

I think maybe I have been confused about disclosure. Oh well. My tendency is to not disclose so I guess I can go back to that.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by sophiesmom

I do not tell family. But I do have to listen and sympathize when I have to hear about their mental health issues....

I don't want to be one of them....they want the sympathy. They want attention. They want coddling. They want to be noticed and pitied.

I don't want those things.....

(I don't think)

I don't know why you say you "have to" listen to mental health problems of family members. I guess I feel differently. My oldest friend has long-standing mental health problems and I am more than happy to be a listening ear if that is what she needs. Recently another family member went into counseling and I was supportive. As long as people are trying to get better and improve...or even if they can't. But maybe if you don't want to listen to the problems of others you should politely tell them you aren't able to be receptive...

[Rose76]

Your brother has character flaws as well. Everyone does. It's called being human.

I have one sibling I can turn to, if I'm down. She'll listen. But there's two who won't. One will say, "Just use your coping skills." and end the conversation. So I just know to never call her. One day, she called me. I had just been through a bad experience and was upset. She said, "I don't know why you dwell on things." At that moment, it was clear to me that she was being a jerk.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Your brother has character flaws as well. Everyone does. It's called being human.

I have one sibling I can turn to, if I'm down. She'll listen. But there's two who won't. One will say, "Just use your coping skills." and end the conversation. So I just know to never call her. One day, she called me. I had just been through a bad experience and was upset. She said, "I don't know why you dwell on things." At that moment, it was clear to me that she was being a jerk.

Thank you for your comments. I don't think my brother has character flaws and is "being human." I think he is an inhuman malignant sociopathic narcissist who causes criminal level damage and wrecks havoc on people's lives. I try to keep him at bay but somehow he always manages to slither back into my life. Social media is made for narcissists. My brother has created a highly visible profile and uses it to infiltrate the lives of many he previously did not have access to.

What kind of person would tell another person to kill themselves???? That is a terrible thing to say and even if I know he is nuts it is like someone stuck a knife into my heart.

I believe the whole self-discloser thing is wrong wrong wrong. I am sick of reading on the internet that one should tell friends and family blah, blah, blah.

I think instead the advice should be to tell a trusted mental healthcare professional but to be very wary of disclosing such things to anyone else. I am not saying keep it a secret for the sake of keeping a secret. But when one is vulnerable one should be extremely extremely careful to keep personal boundaries strong.

[Rose76]

Being "very wary" sounds like real good advice to me. That's actually something that comes up for discussion a lot here at PC. Lots of us have learned the hard way that you have to pick who you confide in.

Oh, you mentioned crisis hotline people at the top of the thread. Some of those lines are manned by volunteers who can vary a lot in their capacities. Many are wonderful. A real problem on those lines, IMO, are paid non-professionals. I had a horrid experience talking to such a person on a very bad night. Communities sometimes contract with a health care organization to provide a hot line. In my area, the HCO staffed it with paid non-professionals whom they gave some sort of training. They were the most awful, cynical characters you could ever talk to. You have to assess the person you are confiding in before you say much.

Even employees in a psychiatric facility are not, all of them, what you would hope. Ultimately you have to protect yourself.

I'm sorry for being unclear.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Being "very wary" sounds like real good advice to me. That's actually something that comes up for discussion a lot here at PC. Lots of us have learned the hard way that you have to pick who you confide in.

Oh, you mentioned crisis hotline people at the top of the thread. Some of those lines are manned by volunteers who can vary a lot in their capacities. Many are wonderful. A real problem on those lines, IMO, are paid non-professionals. I had a horrid experience talking to such a person on a very bad night. Communities sometimes contract with a health care organization to provide a hot line. In my area, the HCO staffed it with paid non-professionals whom they gave some sort of training. They were the most awful, cynical characters you could ever talk to. You have to assess the person you are confiding in before you say much.

Even employees in a psychiatric facility are not, all of them, what you would hope. Ultimately you have to protect yourself.

Yes, this is very very good advice. Thank you. I used crisis hotlines in December and got a few good people. I got a few others who seemed barely trained and in a few instances got people who were borderline rude. Talking to hotline people kind of got me out of my head space and that was a good thing but I have now refrained from using those hotlines because I do not want to have a bad experience like you did, especially on on bad night. So I don't want to push my luck.

Depression is so isolating. That is the nature of it. It also may even point to the fact that life itself is so isolating. It is not only mental illness that isolates...but terminal illness as well. My mother, for instance, was a highly social person and extremely active as a professional and volunteer. But when she became ill I saw her social circle get smaller and smaller. It was sad.

I was young and couldn't really understand it because it seemed so cruel. Even family members - certain of her children - pulled away. I was there with her to the end...and truth be told I learned a lot by being with her through her suffering. She knew she could confide in me. After awhile my presence was enough. But the point is when I saw how alone and lonely my mother was at the end it was unbelievable because she had been there for so many people. And they all turned up at the funeral with their great stories about my Mom. But where were they when she could have used someone to sit by her bed and hold her hand? Absent.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by sophiesmom

I'm sorry for being unclear.

Oh, please, please don't apologize. I do want to understand what you meant.

Actually, this thread has really helped me but I think I am going to go back to not disclosing information. I may even need a hiatus from Psych Central.

You see, sophiesmom, I am usually a very solution oriented person. If I have a problem I set about solving it. I usually have a strategy or a plan.

Until this depression. This is a different animal. It seems so intractable and resistant.

I am glad I shared on Psych Central...and with my health care provider...but I think the friend/family thing was not good.

My question to you is why do you listen to others but not share yourself??? That is what I am wondering about.

I do think I am going to go into an "unsharing mode" because sharing has made me feel way too vulnerable. I don't mind hearing about other people's problems unless they just whine and complain without seeking solutions. I guess that would be negative people.

I had to remove negative people from my life because I can't really deal with them. They are usually also really selfish and can be mean-spirited. I can't tolerate that at this time.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't apologize.

Well I don't share unless I absolutely have to...like I need a medication. And even there it's selective information If I tell him I have plans to kill myself. I will be put away. And other questions they ask that you just know what they mean....you have to not tell them everything (UNLESS) of course you know you need to go inpatient.

As far as family goes, I did tell a couple of them and they brushed it off as "sadness" and "couldn't [I] cheer up"? If people haven't experienced it...then they have no idea. Even doctors, sadly.
Sometimes if I'm meeting someone new (lunch get together) I will mention it because my conversation is hindered---or I have none!----just like you would mention why your arm is in a sling.

So...I won't tell my family. They brush off everything I say. They probably think I'm "fixed" by now.

So...there are times when it benefits and times when it hurts in my opinion to disclose a mental illness. There is still a stigma (sadly) and I don't need that on top of my other issues. I don't want anyone treating me with pity.

I leave it as "need to know" information...

I hear how you're suffering Dechan. I agree. Having a Mental Illness is very much like continuous job training...what to do, who you talk to, when to admit defeat....

Please stay here. Sometimes I withdraw because I don't feel it beneficial, but this is the only place that people can WITH HONESTY truly say "I know how you feel". And that's exactly what you need when you're at the bottom of the well.

[Teddy Bear]

I think it's better to talk about your problems so people know what you're dealing with. Your brother isn't helpful.

[DechanDawa]

"Your brother isn't helpful."

WTF??? My brother is a freaking sociopath. Or at the least a malignant narcissist.I am totally traumatized that he told me I should commit suicide. What a horrible demonic thing to say to anyone, least of all one's little sister.

I have had a week to think about all this. I don't consider that I have a mental illness anymore. The psychiatrist refused to give me a diagnosis this year. My family doctor said I was situationally depressed, and I think that is correct. It is possible to experience suicidal ideation without having a mental illness if one is under a lot of stress. Suicidal ideation is not having a plan or making an attempt. It is just thoughts and they can be fleeting or continuous but often not to the planning stage. I don't want to die. I just want to be out of pain. I have never attempted. Suicidal ideation can be caused by chronic stress. I have chronic and extreme financial stress and I live alone, am socially isolated and do not have family nearby, nor do I have any close friends at this time. Most people my age are nearing retirement. I will never be able to retire. I need to figure out how to not become homeless. That's my reality. So depressed, yeah. I AM seriously depressed.

I have changed my mind completely and feel I will not self-disclose to anyone EVER AGAIN. Nobody really helped me all that much. If I felt I was in real danger to myself or others I don't think I would hesitate to take myself to the hospital emergency room. However, I actually found out that we have a 24 hour crisis center in my town. So I could go there.

But no, I don't believe in self-disclosure anymore. I would not self-disclose to any new friends. I have often found that "new" friends offer too much information anyway. I don't really care to hear about their messy divorce, problems with their adult children, or physical or mental problems. My new hobby is running and maybe I will join some running clubs. Hopefully everyone will be too busy getting healthy to overshare.

My brother's words will hurt me forever on some level. People should really watch what they say. Being a sociopathic narcissist my brother switches from being very charming to very nasty. I will be careful not to let him slither back into my life.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by sophiesmom

Well I don't share unless I absolutely have to...like I need a medication. And even there it's selective information If I tell him I have plans to kill myself. I will be put away. And other questions they ask that you just know what they mean....you have to not tell them everything (UNLESS) of course you know you need to go inpatient.

As far as family goes, I did tell a couple of them and they brushed it off as "sadness" and "couldn't [i] cheer up"? If people haven't experienced it...then they have no idea. Even doctors, sadly.
Sometimes if I'm meeting someone new (lunch get together) I will mention it because my conversation is hindered---or I have none!----just like you would mention why your arm is in a sling.

So...I won't tell my family. They brush off everything I say. They probably think I'm "fixed" by now.

So...there are times when it benefits and times when it hurts in my opinion to disclose a mental illness. There is still a stigma (sadly) and I don't need that on top of my other issues. I don't want anyone treating me with pity.

I leave it as "need to know" information...

I hear how you're suffering Dechan. I agree. Having a Mental Illness is very much like continuous job training...what to do, who you talk to, when to admit defeat....

Please stay here. Sometimes I withdraw because I don't feel it beneficial, but this is the only place that people can WITH HONESTY truly say "I know how you feel". And that's exactly what you need when you're at the bottom of the well.

Thanks for this explanation, Soph. It was very helpful. I have decided that never again will I self-disclose. Unless maybe I need emergency services. But other than that...forget it. It really isn't that helpful and in my case was even harmful. Oh well, it was an experiment. Lesson learned.

[Rose76]

I agree with sophiesmom. I find that I censor myself. I ask myself what outcome do I want from my engagement with this person? For instance, I get narcotic pain killers (hydrocodone) from my PCP, and I would like to keep getting them. So, when I visit my PCP every 6 months, I'm not going to dwell too much on my issues with depression. I don't want to put my PCP (a nurse practitioner) in a spot where she has to worry about prescribing a potentially lethal drug to a person with a potential for suicide. The Feds are coming down on providers for just that. She has a right to protect herself.

People resent being put on the spot. When you go to anyone with talk about killing yourself, you automatically put them in a spot. Immediately, the person has to evaluate whether or not they should call the police to check on you and offer to take you to the E.R. for an evaluation of your potential for self-harm. People resent having to make that decision for an adult. People, with some justification, feel that they are being imposed on inappropriately. There thinking, likely, is: "What is it you want me to do for you?"

Often, we just want someone to listen sympathetically. But, if our need is couched as a threat, it can evoke the opposite sort of feeling.

[DechanDawa]

I agree with you. But I never couched my suicidal ideation as a threat. I have one brother who has his doctorate in psychology so I think he understands that suicidal ideation can mean thoughts and nothing more. I never talked about a plan to attempt or anything near that. The other brother, just forget it. He's a sociopath. That was just a MAJOR mistake on my part disclosing to him and I do take responsibility for it. I spoke with a third brother tonight (I have four) for a very long time and he understood me perfectly well. He did not jump to conclusions. He LISTENED and therefore he UNDERSTOOD. I mean about my other brother. This brother already has known I have been suffering from suicidal ideation. Since he is a combat veteran who has managed PTSD his whole life he has some understanding of how extra stress can throw someone already battling things into a major crisis.

Obviously you are saying that the person has to take responsibility for who they tell.

But of course.

However, I have been going in and out of severe crisis mode and am I thinking all that clearly?

But now I will take responsibility. Since I don't have a diagnosis I don't see why I should self-label myself as mentally ill. I am not on medication.

Maybe I am just weak. That is, mentally weak.

Certainly I am not going to go around disclosing that. Or that I doubt I am going to be able to survive alone. I really have just been trying to get support. Now I am at the end of the road. I either sink or swim. So telling others...it really doesn't matter. It's all up to me. I have to do it.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Everything I have read says one should share information about having suicidal ideation. Up until last December I kept it to myself. A brother wrote to me and said I should share this information so that I could receive help.

I followed this advice and since December 2916 in real life I self disclosed with crisis hotline people, my health care provider, two therapists I was interviewing, my oldest friend, a psychiatrist who did an assessment on me last year, a psychologist at my health care provider, and four family members.

Well, the outcome has been that the suicidal ideation somewhat decreased and then came back.

One brother disowned me today. He intimated I did not have mental problems but rather had numerous character flaws such as being selfish and self destructive. He said I should just go ahead and commit suicide!

I feel like my little experiment of self-disclosure has been a miserable failure. It seems to me it did more harm than good. I feel pretty traumatized right now by what my brother said.

Wow. You've had a lot going on. Hmmm disclosure......I pretty much keep to myself, but should the time that I would get serious I would hope I would reach out for help. I think it's a personal thing. I wish my Dad had reached out to me, but he didn't. That was a rotten thing your brother said to you and that he is trying to invalidate how you feel. You don't need that type of negativity in your life. Are you currently seeing a T? Taking medication? Take care of yourself please.

[Rose76]

I have a sister who's a professional counselor, and she's the last person I would open up to. I got what felt like a kick in the gut from her once too often. It's interesting to me that she's always hated her job and took early retirement. She sent cops to my house once, without even talking to me first. My father simply told her he had called me and said I had obviously been crying when I answered his phone call. (I think I had just lost a job.) She could have called me first and asked what was going on. She didn't. I've decided she has severe problems with showing empathy and warmth. It's probably just beyond her. I've had to drop the bar - lower and lower - on my expectations . . . to protect myself from being hurt.