Re: Avatars

Oh... ooops!! hehe Your post of 9/16 where you refer to the movie, Pass It Forward.

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Movie is called Pay it Forward and I only correct you in case you decide to rent it and is that post from me in this thread? I don't see it. NO biggie....I am SURE I was right ;O)
Heidu

The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

To Heather and Wendy:

Can we compromise? If I grant you that there could be good come out of depression but put it under the heading of "adversity,' could we agree?

I stand behind my statements about Depression. It scewes our prespective, demorilizes us to the point of gluing us to our beds and it breeds apathy in the worst way. For me, the lesson learned and the struggle to overcome it is what was possitive for me, but it took a crisis for me to see how low I had sunk. If I hadn't been depressed, there would have been no crisis because I would have been able to handle what happened as nothing more than someone's personal choice.

Wendy, I plan to give St. Paul a large piece of my mind when I get to Heaven. I don't like the man!!! Regarless, I wish I had heard your lesson and the other people's lesson on "be of good cheer."

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Darrel, may I echo your words: "I let my reaction overrule my awareness of your issues. In short, my issues became more important in the moment."

I did the same thing. I'm sorry. I know better. Please forgive me. {{{{Darrel}}}}

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

{{{{{{{{{{{{Tomi}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Oh gosh yes of course.....I like what you said "For me, the lesson learned and the struggle to overcome it is what was possitive for me, but it took a crisis for me to see how low I had sunk." I am reading this over and over...a thought just came into my mind....what if your strength did not pull you up from its grips....where would you be? There is the positive hun and heck...you would never have met me

See? the good out of the bad


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

I stand corrected... yet again!! HAHAHAHA Just teasing you, Heidu. "PAY it forward"??? hehehe

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Hun, I'm not sure that it was "my" strength that pulled me out of it. It was Jerry calling the crisis team and getting me into a behavioral hospital!!

The "inmates" have a large portion of the credit there! WOW!! When I think of it!! My first hour there, one suicidal girl saw me during smoke time and came to me, lifted my face with her two hands and just smiled! She just smiled! You wouldn't believe how validated I felt! Still sends shivers up my spine!! I swear she was an angel sent from heaven to me! I never got her name... Then there was semi-young man, (LOL I don't know how young/old he was) named Scottie... He made me laugh so hard one night, I wound up sitting on the floor! Dear, dear Scottie... I'll never forget him!

You're so right, though!! I never would have met you!!

<center><font color=red>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Heather}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</font color=red></center>

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

September, you know what's funny?

You and I both seem to have switched sides between Heidu's quotes and this thread. Did you notice that? It must be a terminology issue. I am viewing depression as just one type of adversity. And it was just recently that I could not see anything learned from depression that could possibly be worth it, but maybe there are worse things. I do believe that any kind of adversity, though it may be terrible and we might think there is no way we can get through it, has the potential to teach us something.

Please note, that is potential to teach us. If we refuse to learn, we don't get any benefit.

If you had the chance to trade all the problems you have had or will have in your life for someone else's, would you? There's a story about that. People brought all their problems to a central location and each one dropped off their burden and took someone else's home with them to try it out and see if they liked it better. They kept switching around, and at the end all decided to keep their own. They were used to it and had figured out how to deal with it, and while it might be heavy, it fit them best.

I don't have the stuff from that conference to send you, but it really was pretty good. Both of the people who spoke were comedians! Maybe you would have had to be there, but one talked about the "How are you" question, and suggested that a good way to answer it would be to grin really big and say, "Happy, thank-you!" That's too big of a step for me at this point though. She also talked about elevators, how people just stand in there and look at the walls and all the buttons, but never say anything to each other. She said she always wants to reach out and touch someone as they are getting out and say, "Tag, you're it." She brought in a piece of the mirror from her car, pointing out the part on it that says, "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear," and explaining how that applies to garage doors, even the fifth or sixth time that you have broken off the same mirror on the same garage door. The whole time she was telling the story she was grinning. You probably had to be there to appreciate it.

The source material for the lessons I taught are available on-line though. If you are interested, you can read them:

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,2044-1-2203-1,00.html>Prepare To Be Strong Through Trials</A>

The Peaceable Things Of The Kingdom

Now Is The Time

<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

Thanks for the links, Wendy!

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

<font color=orange>(((((((((((((((SeptMorn + nowhere))))))))))))))</font color=orange>

You too are both wonderful. This is a great thread with so much abundence of wisdom and mindfulness. Beautiful insights and sensibility. So proud of you guys and everyone made input here. I wish I had some valuable viewpoints... I'm pondering... hope to have something come up later

Good moring, guys........ Love u all...

Best,
Toni

[i] What our mind can conceive and believe, it will achieve.

Hey Hey... the tea needs to steep to release the full flavor... Ponder away. If there's anything we can help you with, please feel free to ask.

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

{{{{{Darrel}}}}} Where do we go from here? Well... why don't we take a little break while you deal with your gram's illness. I've been there, done that with both the old crone and my own mother. It saps all your strength, both physical and emotional. Maybe something will bubble up and we can discuss it.

Don't forget to tell your gram how you feel about her... even if you don't think she can hear you. I don't know what her state is, I'm sorry, but don't wait until it's too late.

My heart and my prayers are with you and your family. It's a very difficult time you're going through.

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Thanks Sept, how is your day been so far? Bet you've sent your shining smiles to the world I'll be back, let me deal with this exam first...

(((((((((((((sept))))))))))))))

Best,
Toni

[i] What our mind can conceive and believe, it will achieve.

Hi nowhere,

You're in our heart.. We're all here if you need anything... Sept is right, do tell your gram how much you feel for her and how much you love her... please hang on... tough time like this... stay strong...

my prayers....... (((((((((((nowhere)))))))))))))))

Best,
Toni

[i] What our mind can conceive and believe, it will achieve.

(((((((((((Tomi))))))))))

Validation (overdue): Yes, you're right, depression is a misery, a pain in the behind, scewes our thinking, causes us damage, leaves us near death, and a host of horrible things. You're right.

Depression, adversity, what the heck? Adversity is a part of depression, but depression does not have to be a part of adversity.... what do you think?

Where to go next.... I know tripping across our triggers is not fun, but if we can feel safe, and I believe I do, I'm not so afraid of them right now... let's let them happen... we handled that great I think, of course I won't go there without you.....

Let's consider Rapunzels opinion what we should do next, she's also answered the questions.... and let's give anyone else a chance to catch up if interested and let them answer the questions too.... I'm on now, but I foresee being away from the comp alot in the near future... Maybe we can use this time to "feel" for our next step... I knew how to get us here, but beyond that, nothing was given.. so, a short break then? I thought one thing we could do, was elaborate on the answers, since it was short and sweet for each of us, don't know that it's neccessary though, we could role play if we wanted to, the triggering thing was very beneficial to me, because I've had thos type emotions bottled up a long time, never felt safe letting them loose, never knew how to regain my composure with someone after I'd let it fly, so essentially, I just kept it bottled, the cap was bound to blow sooner or later..... I think we have a lot here we can work with.

September, you can, you can, you can... you're safe with me, and I feel safe with you... we can do this

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Hey there hey

How'd the exam go? Thanks for the support, it's very, very appreciated.... Not knowing if it might be the last time, I made sure I told gram I love her, hugged her, and held her hand... she's still kicking, but it ain't so hard right now....

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

hehehe I know you didn't mean it as a funny, but listen...

"I know tripping across our triggers is not fun, of course I won't go there without you....." You mean no one else can piss you off as bad as me?? hahahaha ... No, I know what you mean.

"I thought one thing we could do, was elaborate on the answers, since it was short and sweet for each of us, don't know that it's neccessary though, we could role play if we wanted to, the triggering thing was very beneficial to me, because I've had thos type emotions bottled up a long time,"

I kinda like the role playing idea. I'll take my lead from you. No rush. You let me know when you're ready. If you've read the Anxiety board, you know that I went off the deep end today thinking of my disability hearing next Friday. I'm going to be busy preparing my file, maybe talking to an attorney, etc., etc. There's no way I can stay away from here, though.

Ooooh- waaaa! Goosebumps and butterflies! :::glomming on the {{{{Darrel!}}}}::: ... ahem! ... sorry 'bout that... I just freak easy these days. LOL ...and well... our friendship has become important to me... ... Who said that????


<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

As much as I'm learning from this thread, I don't see any reason why we need to push it along. It will develop as anyone has things to add. It takes lots of brain cells to digest this stuff and to think of contributions, and I don't know about the rest of you but I don't have that many brain cells available every day.

There is a lot we could go back and add to our answers to the questions. We could also make generalizations from the answers - see what we have in common and how it might apply to people in general.

Questions 1 and 2 will have a lot in common. (How did the dragon come to be and how did the dragon grow) Abuse, neglect, and invalidation are going to be big factors there for most of us. Whatever damage was inflicted upon us by other people as well as by ourselves. That's a key point for me, since I never really thought about damage I might have done to myself, and that probably is important. Even when I wrote about feeling bad about making my mother embarassed because I bit myself, I didn't recognize physically hurting myself as meaning anything until Darrel picked up on that. Another thing trying to come into focus for me currently is how I never had many friends near my own age. I was more likely to have friends who were adults when I was a child or teenager. I didn't trust people who were near my own age, even when I thought of them as friends. That's probably likely to be a result of the bully experiences.

I printed out my post where I had originally answered the questions, so I have it for reference because I know that as I think about this I will have more to add to it and my perceptions will probably change. Now I'm making more notes on that paper as I go on with this.

One thing to consider is how we dealt with things that happened when we were children the best way that we could. We had enough strength to get through all that stuff, and whatever we did worked for us at the time. You can see how people with dissociative identity disorders developed alternate personalities to handle things that were too much for them. If we have developed a screen to hide our emotions or suppressed some feelings or developed anxiety symptoms, or just generally dissociate, or whatever, it is all for the same reason and it was functional for us at the time. Now those things cause problems for us because we are no longer in the same situations, but that was the way we learned to be and it is hard to change. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here since that goes into the third question (what is the dragon about), but it connects, doesn't it? (Do we want to explore the questions in more depth and not all at once?)

If you would like to try role playing that would be interesting too. I'm not good at role playing - have tried it in therapy a few times and always gave up because it was too hard. But a lot of things that are too hard for me in real life, I can handle in writing, so maybe this would be a good way to learn. That is something I need to learn. How would that work though? Maybe we ought to set a time and meet in the chat room? I don't know. ideas?????

Wendy

<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

FOR ALL OF YOU ALL = XOXO!! Peanut

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT </font color=blue>

Rapunzel

As usual, you make some great points... let it develop.. I like that idea. You brought some things up in your post to consider. Finding commonalities would definately be interesting... it does seem there are some common themes.....

As well, seperating what we did to ourselves from what was done to us could be enlightening.... It might allow us to re-examine how we were treated, what made us feel as we did because of that treatment, how we reacted to those feelings about ourselves and subsequently treated ourselves because of it. Examining the defense mechanisms we used at that age might give us insight into our current personalities and blocks we've built against our progression. I think we might discover, as you suggested, who we are now is an extension of the person we had to be then, but those "survivor skills" are no longer functional or needed.

I'm still pretty occupied with things right now, but if either you or September starts it, I'll follow suit. We could start by printing each others answers and individually drawing comparisons, then post our results. We'd each then be able to compare our comparisons to find the general themes that apply to us all.

For role playing, I would suggest we each take turns being our child self. A short description of our major opponents at that age should give us enough to start with. The othere members in the thread (still anyone welcome) would become that person's antagonist and try to push buttons for the child self and see what responses develop.. Some of us may have several antagonists, but I think it would be best to deal with only one at a time, go around the circle, then begin again with the next antagonist/child... We'd begin our posts with a statement that we're in role playing identity and when we switch back to our real self, likewise make a note of it to avoid confusion. What do you think?

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

((((((((((((September)))))))))) I've been away so much lately and haven't been keeping up... how are you? Got a smile today?

Please read my post to Rapunzel on the avatar thread and give us your input..... Hoping you're well sweetie.... good thoughts on you

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Got a smile now, {{{{{{Darrel}}}}}} !!! Good to hear from you. You've been missed. Hope things are going well.

Uh... aren't we in the Avatar thread?? hehehe ... I read Wendy's post and I like it very, very much! But... can you excuse me till next week? I've got that horrible hearing this Friday and I'm busy preparing my notes and what I'm going to say to the Administrative Law Judge.

Um... I've had quite a few insights while reading the report my ex-therapist wrote for the hearing... First, I went through a couple panic attacks and then I got depressed... but right now, I'm looking forward to making some changes with ya'lls help. Next week okay with you?

Got you and grams in my prayers...

(what???? Darrel with a water gun??? hehehehe Go get'er, Darrel! LOL)

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Oh thanks September!!!! I am gonna hide behind you!!
Heidu


The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

Ut oh!! Open mouth, insert foot!! hehehehe Well, m'dear... there's enough of me to hide you and one other person! Get your spot!

:::whispering to Heidu... "you weren't supposed to see it on this thread!!" Getting my beach towelS ready! hehehe:::

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

<center><font color=blue>{{{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</font color=blue></center>

Sum'un B a-missin' ya...

How is your grams? And how are you?

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>