Re: Avatars

Wendy, you're so right on with the <font color=red>acceptance</font color=red>. The dragon, inner child, cloud need to be accepted just as they are.

How do we know what they need? I think they'll tell us. We already know they need validation and acceptance. We know they aren't going away. That's some knowledge about them.

For me, in dealing with my inner child, I can tell when I'm feeling or acting infantile. I know what it is I'm wanting or needing. Like Friday; I wanted to celebrate my victory in court but my husband was too tired. Only thing is, he failed to tell me. Instead he got mad and stomped out of the house. I cried... my inner child cried. She wanted validation that she had made a wise choice in not taking the attorney with her, she wanted validation of the long struggle and wait for that day. She wanted validation for having stuck it out for three years! All she wanted was some fun with her "sons/syblings." For the adult me, they are my sons. For the "inner child," they are her syblings because she can goof off and have fun with them.

So... what did the inner child do? She got impatient because she didn't get an answer right away and pushed it. I could feel myself wanting to jump up and down and stomp my feet and cry "I want a piece of pie and some time to goof off with the boys!!!!!!! I want you to show me that I 'done good!!!!!' "

I didn't make myself clear to my husband because the inner child was afraid to be rejected again and told "No big deal, Kid!" I didn't tell him how badly I wanted to think out of the box! I didn't make him understand just how difficult it had been for me and how hard I had to fight to get what I needed.

That doesn't mean I would have gotten any more than I got, but at least I would have made myself clear.

What I had to do was emotionally and mentally pat myself on the back. I've got a lot more making up for it, too. I've been too preoccupied by his abscence. He's home now, so we'll have a long talk. hehe

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Tomi

Excellent example and excellent point. We can make a pact that we can push, but push gently. There's a difference between the statement " What I heard is this", and "What you said is this". The "I" / "you" placement changes how it's read, and consequently how it's felt. I think I could safely say that many times my "triggers" come from misunderstandings. That's not to say the dragons feelings are less real, but he is aroused in false circumstances.

When he is aroused, I'm most closely connected to what he is about. During less turbulent times I can recall parts of why I was agitated, but often, like many memories, it's only a piece of the whole picture. That's why I think prodding him is a way to understand him better. Like the sleeping lion, we don't know what his character is until he wakes.

Unlike the sleeping lion, the dragon / child / cloud is a part of us. It feeds on our energy and well-being. I don't expect mine to sleep forever or go away on it's own. It would be foolish to wake the lion. To not confront the dragon is allowing it to feed at its' own will.

I feel we've learned more about each other in this process and if you lost your temper on me, I've learned that it's your pain talking, not you. So don't worry so much.

I think we've done well to consider what we might do to the other by going forward, and our solutions seems workable. Isn't it funny we haven't considered our own feelings if things get too hairy? Depressive empathy? I think Heidu's point is valuable. How will we know for ourselves we've pushed ourself too far and how will we let the others know?

If we're going to do this, we need to have a circuitous communication, between ourselves, and to ourselves. Some of the things that may come up will need process time. Let's move at the pace that gives each of us safety barriers and not be embarrassed to ask for more time.

Hugs to you.... I've willfully faced my demons before and it is a weighty thing. It's not something we only do here. You'll find yourself spending time alone in thought, distracted by it as you do other things (driving is a good example), you may fall asleep to it or wake to it. For all the unpleasant side effects, miles can be gained in recovery. We may not break through this time, but we can get further. I think we will always remember this experience and draw on its lessons in the future. Just wanted to make you aware of what you might be getting into and if you want to go forward, I'm ready.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

More than ok We need feedback to help stay on course... everyone is welcome.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Hi Wendy

Yeah! You're going the same direction I want to. Acceptance.... YES! He is valid, his feelings are valid, his wants are valid. He just has an unreasonable attitude !

I had a number of step-mothers growing up... The evil one was the 6th. I was 10 years old.

If Tomi is willing, and when she's ready, let's complete the synthesis of individual similiarities for question #2. "How did it grow?" The answer to this explains how we were, how we grew, how we reasoned, what were the major influences? Then we can use Socratic to re-think the decisions we made at that time. I don't think the method would be as beneficial for any of the other 6 questions. I think, for me, the stumbling block centers around the dragons personality. What are his characteristics as much as what triggers him. Is he fearful, insecure, angry, jealous, ashamed, etc.... ? Those answers would apply well to the method.

We may "publicly" expose some "immature" details about our personalities. It's important to remember, the emotions appear immature because they developed and became constructed before we were adults. They are the emotions and responses of children, ourselves as children. Sometimes it may be hard to admit considering our current age. Unles we are as truthful as we can be, we can't expect maximum results. Just some things to consider before we begin. Hugs to you too. If you decide to join in, it might get rocky.... consider it well.

When we have an agreed, synergized situation to work on, like emotional abuse from parent figures, we need a volunteer to be the questioner. The other two could answer. Since I'm a little familiar with the process, I would volunteer to question. We'd begin by the answerers making a statement relative to the common situation. Such as "I felt like blah, blah, blah when so and so did such and such". Try to keep statements tight (short, but complete). The questions are intended to root out layers of emotions beneath the original statement, so one question may lead to other questions within the same topic. The questioner is allowed to use previous statements in present questions. Contradicting statements are often used as a tool to expose "thought traps." If you'd like to investigate the process further, a web serach should satisfy your questions. Keywords "Socratic Method".

In answer to whether we're healing or avoiding, only you will know. If you don't feel a twist in your gut from knowing you've lied, you're doing the best you can.

I'm open to whatever you and Tomi decide regarding a new thread or staying on this. Staying might eliminate the need to refer to 2 threads for the same reasons Tomi gave previously.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Darrel, I agree with your process. If, like you said, we don't feel a twisting of the gut when we answer, it may not necessarily be a lie... it may just be the depth we're working at... like my previous example of "peeling the onion." Next time around, we'll peel off another layer.

Some problems keep croping up in life experiences. We may go for a while and not find any rotten parts, but then suddenly we're on that one that didn't get cleared away last time. It's time to peel away another layer. See what I mean? I know I've condensed what I'm talking about. Did I make myself clear? It's pretty early in the morning, still. hehe This thread and the work we're doing has really challanged me. It feels good!

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Tomi,

I like that word <font color=orange>acceptance</font color=orange>. Even if you didn't get your way on Friday, you still acknowledged to yourself that your inner child wanted something and didn't get it. You accepted her feelings as well as that you didn't make those feelings clear to your husband, and why. You did well, even if you didn't get your pie. Did you get to go celebrate later? I totally understand wanting to celebrate your victory. Congratulations again, BTW. I'm so glad you got it. Make sure you get that pie, no matter how long it takes.
Wendy

<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

Okay Darrel,

That sounds like a plan. I'm with you. First a review and comparison on question #2, and then we can use the Socratic method on that? I vote for you to ask questions, at least starting out. They have been your questions all along anyway.

Wow, your sixth stepmother by the time you were 10 years old! That must have been extremely difficult, even if she had not been evil. I don't think I can imagine growing up like that.


<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

Peanut, Mary Alice, Heidu, and anyone else reading this thread,

I just want to say that I appreciate your input also. I hope that everyone who wants to participate feels free to go ahead and speak up. You are our safety net, and I value what you have to say.
Wendy

<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

Thanks Rapunzel for appreciating our input.
I will not be participating but I want each of you to know that I will be here as support. If you need ANYTHING I will be here for you. Please don't hesitate to contact me.
I care about you guys and I don't want to see anyone getting hurt.
Heidu

The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

ty Wendy, I'll probably be putting my 2 cents worth in soon.

Wendy, part of the reason I didn't get to explain everything to my husband was because he stomped out of the house before I got a chance. We haven't had our talk yet because he had surgery this morning and I didn't want to upset him any more.

It will be a bit before we do talk about it because he isn't coming out of the anesthesia as well as was expected. They kept him overnight. When he does come home, I'm going to go easy on him. In some ways, I hate having to do that because "the moment" will have been lost.

My youngest son, his family and I went out to dinner tonight but somehow "that moment" was gone, too. Maybe I'll just wait till my first check comes in. That way, it's me that will be doing the inviting and the paying.

Yeah, I soothed my "inner child" but she's still pouting a bit. She has to learn a little bit of "delayed gratification." I've promised her that she'll have her day!

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Hi Wendy

Something I just realized today.... I never had a mother growing up. Not one who I felt was there for me whatever I felt, or who I could talk to for advice or to make my lunch and draw little hearts in my PBJ sanwiches. To sit on her lap, to have books read to me... all those great things moms can do. That really explains a lot to me suddenly. Why I would get these deep painful longings when I wasyounger, just wanting to be held by her. Those deep longings lasted long into my life. At the time I didn't connect it to my mom, but just felt so alone at times.

Ok. Glad you've decided to join I hadn't considered switching roles, but why not? Remember, as the person answering, you may not ask any questions of me. I cannot make any statements.

Maybe we can save some work in preparing the theme. It seems Tomi's issue is inner child, oppression by authority figures. Is your issue any way connected?

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Hey Tomi

Wendy is so good at picking up on things I just wanted to add my congratulations too on how you managed the tiff with Jerry...

I didn't read it specifically, but I think I understand you want to be involved inn the question / answer discussion? I'm sure you can read above that it would work best if we had a common theme to work on. I think I have dual issues but the inner child is probably the basis of the dragon, so we can go on that theme if Wendy agrees.

Prepare a summary of what you feel about the child. Post it up when you're ready.... I'll question each of you individually and as uniquely as possible, because there's no way all the details will be the same for each.

Wishing us all luck

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Darrel,

I can't imagine what that would be like to grow up without a mother. But with a parade of step-mothers like you had, I don't see how any of them could have given you the stability and love that you are supposed to get from a mother. {{{{hugs}}}}

Yes, you could say that I also have issue with an inner child and oppression. My Father was just so aloof and clueless. He always had his nose stuck in a book and just never noticed the family or anything going on around him. My mother was over protective, and while she probably thought she had my best interests at heart, she couldn't let go or trust me enough to let me do things or make my own choices. Then my younger sister was just like a little clone of my mother, portable version since she could follow me around when my mother couldn't, and repeat the same messages - never to risk anything or try anything.

I keep evaluating how my experiences relate to the material from my Personality Theory class. The theorist we just covered was Erik Erikson, who set up an outline of developmental psychology. There are eight developmental stages from infancy through old age. Each stage involves a develomental crisis and a characteristic that is gained when the crisis is successfully resolved. I could give you a summary of all that, but I'm afraid that it would be too long, even for this thread. Let's see... ah, here's a website that has all the information, including a chart of the eight stages. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://facultyweb.cortland.edu/~ANDERSMD/ERIK/welcome.HTML>http://facultyweb.cortland.edu/~ANDERSMD/ERIK/welcome.HTML</A>

Part of my homework I did just last night was to discuss Erikson's theory and how it can be applied to my own life or people in general. I'll give you an exerpt from my homework that seems at least a little relevant:

<font color=blue>It is mentioned that the outcome of any stage is not necessarily permanent, that future benign or pathogenic conditions may counteract prior deficiencies or accomplishments. Also, successful resolution of earlier stages is more likely to lead to and is sometimes required for success in resolving the following crises. In light of this, it may be desirable for one to return to earlier stages that may not have been resolved satisfactorily and attempt to work towards an improved outcome.

Although Erickson defines these stages in a linear manner, with one following another in succession, I feel that it is possible for an individual to be involved in more than one of the developmental crises simultaneously. In my own life, it seems to me that the only one of these crises that I was able to achieve the desirable outcome in at the time of that developmental stage was the first, basic trust vs. mistrust. After that, I felt more shame and doubt than autonomy, as my parents did not allow me choice and control. Guilt predominated over initiative, as I was not permitted to pursue goals of my choosing. Inferiority predominated over industry, as I was taught that nothing that I did could be good enough. Somewhere through the stages of adolescence, young adulthood, and adulthood, however, I must have experienced some positive conditions that allowed me to change these outcomes, as I did at some time develop the characteristics of will power, purpose, and competence.

The crises of the later stages, identity vs. role confusion, intimacy vs. isolation, and generativity vs. stagnation, may not all be resolved yet and I feel that I have had to face all of these as recently as during the last several months, and sometimes they have seemed to overlap. As Erikson himself suffered role confusion until during his twenties he became involved with psychoanalysis, I have fluctuated from one role to another and only in the last few months settled on a vocation that I truly identify with. Although I was married at 20 years old, I have still struggled with feelings of isolation. And, although I have children and care for them, merely having children is not sufficient evidence that the crisis of adulthood has been resolved. The final crisis, integrity vs. despair, cannot be achieved until the others have been resolved, and I have not reached Erikson’s maturity stage.</font color=blue>

There's some material for you, anyway.

<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

It's been a while since I gave you a hug, hasn't it?

I'm not at all surprised at your revelation about not having had a mother. In my experience, I always felt that half of me was missing... like there was a connection lost... another part of me that I needed. My therapist thought it may have been the part of me that I had lost in the process of shutting down my feelings in order to not feel pain. With your revelation, I'm thinking that what I've been missing is that part of my mother that I never got. The lack of validation and protection. The part that tells you, "you are ok, you are right, it's not your fault."

Darrel, I'm feeling bad that maybe you might "miss out" by being the "asker." Something tells me that you'll gain from the answers anyway... but is that going to do it for you? Where is your validation in this? Talk to me...

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Hey Wendy

You're right about that. The only stable thing I had was my relationship with my dad. "Had" being the operative. When I finally did get to live with my real mom at 14, he exiled me from his life. I found out my mom wasn't the vision I'd always had either. That was my breaking point. Even though I moved back to my dad one year later, the damage was done.

I'm really grateful for the psychology references. It gives us those professional viewpoints as well as the others who're watching out for us as we go.

Could we begin on the theme of absent parents? Would that address your issues enough? I think I, and maybe for Tomi too, experienced not only the absence of nurturing parents, but at times abuse could even apply. I know you've mentioned bullying was a problem for you. Would that equal abuse on a therapy level? True, it's not parent generated, but some of the skeleton seems similiar. Aggression, non-validation, isolation, powelessness. Does it make a difference who the abuser was? On some levels I can see that parental abuse is more love critical, but don't we also rely on peers for acceptance, nurturing, companionship? Not meaning to say the two are the same, but is there enough we could go on the theme of oppresive environment, invalidations, isolations, anger, resentment, fears and anxiety in common?

The first thing I read in your assignment to give me hope and validation for trying is "the outcome of any stage is not necessarily permanent." What hope can that give us all? How does it change our perception of even the work we do on ourselves today? The second statement is exactly what we're doing, isn't it? I could never get a therapist to help me work thru the past. Focus on today and the future was what I was directed to do. The rust theory would trip me every time. Basically, I think your second statement validates what I'd been thinking all along myself.

Thank you for the hugs I can't go back and sit in my mothers lap, or have a birthday party with all my friends. But I can re-evaluate history and put it in a perspective of what I had, and what I needed. Tomi knows what I mean. I don't need to have that parenting now. I need to recognize what went wrong and reverse the negative messages. Is that similiar to what you might need regarding the bullying experiences you had?

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Thankyou sweetheart, and right back atcha

((((((((((((((((((Tomi)))))))))))))))))) I'm so grateful to have such a caring, intelligent, strong friend, especially now

Yeah... it wasn't only abuse, it was everything in the whole panorama of good parenting we lost as well. Protection is big for me too. My dad could have stopped the evil wrench, but did nothing. For his sake, I did my best to hide my pain from him. After 6 previous unhappy marriages, I just wanted him to be happy and felt I was too unimportant to make him be a lonely man.

Not exactly. I won't miss out at all. In order to ask the questions, I need to discover my own answers too. I get the benefit of reviewing your responses to aid both my answer and the next question. Wendy mentioned we might switch roles at certain points and I see no reason not too if you'd like. We could each experience both sides and improve our individual benefits from this.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} You're endearment and your hugs are especially special right now. Thank you!

Feeling a little unsure of myself right now ... (gulp) ... but with you and Wendy as examples, I'm sure I'll feel up to trading roles.

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

No pressure... just waitng for the two of you.....

(((((((((((((Group Hugs ))))))))))))))))

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Could we begin on the theme of absent parents? Would that address your issues enough? I think I, and maybe for Tomi too, experienced not only the absence of nurturing parents, but at times abuse could even apply. I know you've mentioned bullying was a problem for you. Would that equal abuse on a therapy level? True, it's not parent generated, but some of the skeleton seems similiar. Aggression, non-validation, isolation, powelessness. Does it make a difference who the abuser was? On some levels I can see that parental abuse is more love critical, but don't we also rely on peers for acceptance, nurturing, companionship? Not meaning to say the two are the same, but is there enough we could go on the theme of oppresive environment, invalidations, isolations, anger, resentment, fears and anxiety in common?

<hr></blockquote>

Yes, that works for me too. I actually didn't think of bullying being so much of an influence on my life until recently, and I probably overemphasized it a bit in that paper. Although every child has the right to expect their parents to be nurturing and not abusive, peers are important too, and abuse takes its toll no matter what the relationship of the abuser. I do consider bullying to be abuse.

And I do have issues with my parents too. No parents are perfect. Mine disallowed my individuality, which is psychological abuse. Psychological abuse often has worse effects than physical abuse. In one study mothers and children were observed and evaluated over a period of years (from pregnancy until the children were school aged). Those mothers who were abusive were divided into four groups: physically abusive, verbally abusive/hostile, neglectful, and psychologically unavailable. When the children were evaluated, all of the children of abusive mothers functioned much more poorly than children who were not maltreated, but it was those whose mothers were psychologically unavailable that did the worst of all.

I'm glad that the comments about having the potential to change gave you hope. Yes, I think that going back and working on past crises and issues with the hope of improving the outcome is exactly what we are doing here.

There are lots of different therapy styles, some that favor examining memories from the past, and others that stick to the here and now. My feeling is that the past still affects us and it will until we resolve the issues that still bother us. Besides recognizing what went wrong and reversing the negative messages, I think it is also important to look for what went right and give ourselves credit for that. Yes, I think we are pretty much on the same track and understanding each other.

I was also worried about you missing out by just asking the questions and not having a turn to answer. We certainly can switch roles at some point so that you get a turn too. I did look up the Socratic method. There are a few schools that use it as a teaching method. What I mostly got out of what I read was that rather than having lectures, they have discussions in which a facilitator asks questions and keeps the discussion headed in the right direction. The advantage is that the students are actively engaged in learning as opposed to sitting back listening, therefore the students are required to process the information and they gain a better understanding since they have to think about it in order to be able to answer the questions.

<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

Just want you and Wendy to know that I'm still working towards our common goal. I've been studying the Socratic Method and will start working on the synopsis of my childhood tonight.

There's some things that I need to get through first like this last weekend and then last night. I just don't know... (hmmmmff!)

There will be something posted from me by tomorrow night, ok?

{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}}} {{{{{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}}

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

{{{{{{{Tomi}}}}}}}} {{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}

Are we set then? I'm debating about offering to send both of you this thing I wrote for my therapist that is a life history as well as history of previous therapy experiences. It's extremely long though, and if you've read most of my posts on this site a lot of bits and pieces of the same incidents are here somewhere. I don't know, is there more information that you need from me for this?



<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

Thanks for the (((hugs)))

We want to work with our present understanding of our past. Not sure when you've written your therapist letter, but if you're like me, opinions of the past can change in a moment.

We don't want the complete history. You may be repeating much of what's in the letter, but spontanaity of the present is what we want.

You could start by remembering a specific incident. What happened. How did you respond? What were your feelings and conclusions? How did it shape your future?

The trail of questions will lead us through the assortment of experiences connected to that incident. We only need to get started, then let nature take its course. It would be best if you can start with your earliest memory related to feeling invalidated.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Ok.... no need to be thorough.... whatever's left out will come up sooner or later... Too much information at one time will make questions more difficult... try to summarize, ok? I'm sure whatever you come up with will be fine.... Sleep well

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Being invalidated probably goes back a lot further than this, and a single (major) incident doesn't really come to mind, but I am remembering things from when I was nine years old that were the beginning of my realization of my parents' attitude toward me. Well, you already know about the bully experiences which were when I was 6 - 8 years old; first, second, and third grade. Okay, here's the earliest incident I remember regarding invalidation. I walked to school, a little more than a mile. It seemed like such a long way to walk, and I was late sometimes. When I was in third grade my sister started kindergarten, so she walked to school with me. I don't think she walked home with me though - she must have gotten out earlier than I did, and my mother probably picked her up. When I was late for school the teacher sent me to the office to get a tardy permit. I liked my teacher, but the office staff, lunch monitors, and playground monitors were all mean. When I had to get a tardy permit the office staff would always demand to know why I was late, and for punishment I had to stay in the office after school for 15 minutes or half an hour. It was a very long time to have to sit there on the bench in the office and not be allowed to do anything. Also, when I had to stay after school I would definitely be walking home alone, and there would not be other kids around except for the bullies who waited for me, so I knew what was going to happen on the way home - I would be beaten up. I don't remember being late to school very often before my sister started kindergarten, but that year I was late a lot, usually because she was not ready to leave on time and dawdled on the way. When I had to go to the office for a tardy permit and they asked why I was late, I always said that my sister made me late. Since she was in kindergarten she didn't get in trouble for being late, as kindergarteners didn't have to get tardy permits or stay after school, so I was the only one who was punished. One day we were late, and my sister's teacher decided to send her to the office. It must have been because we were late so often and I always said it was her fault - maybe they decided to start making her a little bit accountable, or maybe they talked to my mother and she verified that it was my sister's fault. I don't know, but I was sent to the office and said that I was late because my sister made me late, and they said no, they had already talked to my sister (the kindergarten classrooms were right next to the office but mine was on the other side of the school) and she said that I made her late. It was a lie, but they only believed her. As usual, I was the only one who had to stay after school. When I told my mother about it she took their side. It didn't make any difference what I said, but that time it was more frustrating because nobody would listen to me and they thought I was a liar, but they only thing that was different really was that she copied me and blamed me.

Other things from about the same time were that I wanted to do some after school activities like campfire girls or dance or gymnastic lessons, but my mother said no because she didn't have time to take me to things or have to pick me up. I wanted to have a birthday party, but I never had one because my mother said it would be too much work.

What I said, what I wanted, what I needed just plain didn't matter to anyone. I knew that if I had to stay after school I would get beaten up, but nobody listened to me and there was nothing that I could do about it. When I wanted to participate in any kind of social activities I was always told no because it was too much trouble. I wasn't worth it. I spent most of my life thinking that I was worthless.

I forgot until just now, but it was during this time that my father was in Korea for two years (he was in the Air Force - it was peace time, but he was sent to the base there, and at that time they didn't send families to Korea so we stayed behind). He came back about the time I finished third grade and then we moved. That would be another story - plenty to say about that too but I'll save it for later.

<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>