[Pomegranate]

"Holding on to hope may not make patients happier as they deal with chronic illness or diseases, according to a new study by University of Michigan Health System researchers."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/169509.php

The above is from an article that I found very interesting and related to. Having dealt with major depression most of my adult life now, there did come a point when I had to realize that what I hoped for myself and how things actually are, were two very different things and my hopes and expectations for myself were making me more depressed.

That's not to say I don't continue to use most of all of the help we talk about here regularly: exercise, taking things one day or one hour at a time (keeping in the present), eating well, medication, therapy, etc.

But I do feel that "giving up hope" or simply accepting my state of depression (or anxiety, pain) on any given day and doing the best I can - even if my best that day and for many days is not doing much at all - has helped my quality of life. I don't wake up each day and get more depressed because I am depressed. Anyway, I thought others might find this article interesting also, and maybe some of you have experienced what I have?

[Briester]

Thank you for posting this Pomegranate. It will be an interesting read once I'm home and out side of all these web filters here at work.

Chris

[Lboogieg]

What an insightful article! It's so interesting to contemplate that too much hope can make depression worse in some cases. I know personally I like to keep my hope alive, but I guess it doesn't make things much better for me because I hope for improvements.

I hope to have a significant other in my life eventually, I hope to get into a thriving and well-paying career, I hope to gain more friends and keep relationships with my current ones. In a sense though, I'd almost be better to give up that hope...at least for the time being. Because then, like you and the experts in the article said, it might be easier to make the best of what you have and appreciate anything wonderful that does come into your life.

Thanks for posting! Definitely some food for thought.

[lynn P.]

I think the article makes alot of sense and I also give this advice in the Q&A section when it's applicable. As you stated in the beginning, this doesn't mean you need to stop being proactive with exercise, healthy eating or other self help methods. I think if someones in a very deep depression or some other bad circumstance - continues to focus on hope and nothing happens to improve their situation - it makes them feel even worse(defeated). They end up always trying to deny their present circumstances. I think it' s better to accept what's happening - but this doesn't mean giving up. It means you're willing to deal with the here and now instead of waiting for the changes that hope would bring. I think accepting it and going on with your day is a great idea. I wouldn't want the article to be misinterpretted as saying people should give up, stop taking their meds and not try at all because that's not what it's implying. Emotional and physical pain is hard and we're always looking for ways to hold it back and this sometimes makes it worse. Very interesting article Pom - thank you for sharing.

[Berries]

Very interesting article Pomegrante. It makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

[justfloating]

I liked this article, I thought it was really interesting and I agree with what it says. Sometimes, hope -- specifically misplaced or unrealistic hope -- can be dangerous.

Right now, I'm having more good days than bad, but when the depression hits me all I can really do is wait it out. Lately when that happens, I just let myself feel it. It's unpleasant and it's not easy, but if I can put myself in a frame of mind where I can accept my depression and accept these low spells for what they are rather than spending all my time hoping it'll just disappear, it makes the whole experience just a little bit easier. Sometimes, letting the depression run its course and accepting that it's going to be part of my life for a long time is a relief after struggling to maintain my hold on hope.

[Rohag]

Thank you, Pomegranate!

Timeless questions.

What is reality? How do you test reality? When do you “accept reality”? How do you “mold reality” to meet your desires? When do you give up your dreams, or should you ever do so?

When is Hope necessary and useful? When does Hope become a harmful burden?

I doubt my ability to resolve those questions. The results of the University of Michigan / Carnegie Mellon University colostomy study are intriguing, but doubtless not all that can be learned about Hope's role in human life and function.

In personal hindsight, I can see where Hope usefully kept me going during some life episodes AND where it kept me going in the wrong direction at other times. Hope for me has been both a blessing and a betrayer. I wish I had had the discernment to tell the difference at the time.

Nowadays I live without Hope (or perhaps, without reference to Hope). Absent from everyday life, Hope isn't constantly throwing fuel on the fires of my depression.

[Naturefreak]

I now have NOTHING.

[shezbut]

Very interesting, Pom!

Thanks for posting the link

Dealing with both physical and emotional illnesses in recent years, I have a lot of experience in this area. Before I had my partial temporal lobectomy in 3/06, I was given the hope that I'd be a lot better after my surgery. My seizures would be gone, I'd be able to drive, work, go to school, etc.

Here I am, years later, still severely depressed. Doctors do call my surgery a success, as it has controlled the seizure activity. I can drive legally. But that deep depression still has a hold over me (as well as a couple other things), which prevents me from working or schooling. I've just had to work on accepting that these emotions that I struggle with won't be changing any time soon. I'm better off not working or schooling, as I know that stress highly increases the likelihood of seizures. Doctors are now better with me ~ rather than making me feel bad (because the success of the surgery, but I'm still depressed). The doctors' emotional support through this has made it much easier for me to accept.

Hugs to you!
Shez

I read it and I have to say there is a difference between having hope and dealing with real life. I myself have to have hope.
I hope to live a long life. I hope to get well after my surgery. I hope for all of you to improve your lifes. I hope my children have a life that will make them happy.
Hope is what holds me together.
Now if someone leaves everything like cleaning thier house to hope. Or partaking in thier illness. that to me is different.
I just believe in hope with all my heart. Even when im paniced about something I know there is hope ......................................
just my thoughts thou
I hope you all know (you matter to me ))))))))))))))))))))))))

[turquoisesea]

Thanks for posting this

[lynn P.]

I think it's perfectly fine to hope for your children to be happy or to live a long life - I hope for those things too. I think the articles purpose was to point out that it's important to accept and deal with the cards that life has dealt. This is a complicated concept to grasp but I'll try to explain what I'm saying. If a person is severely depressed and spends most of their waking hours mserable - they try to calm themselves by thinking about the future and hanging onto hope for a better day with no concrete idea of how that 's going to happen. So they continue to live in the misery hating their depression and trying to resist it - naturally this makes them more depressed and they PINE for the hope of a better day(feeling more self pity).

I think that Pomegranite decided to stop fighting her depression - she accepted it and essentially made friends with it. Yes she might be feeling crappy but life still goes on and she still can use all the self help methods. She can also give herself a break occasionally, relax and do nothing. For depression, I think hanging onto hope can make the person apathetic to deal with the present moment. You're left with feeling like you're doomed to suffer now(in the present) and you'll only get relief in the future whenever the depression ends. If you're stuck with lemons make lemonade because if you hope for something different you'll miss out on present day opportunities.

[Pomegranate]

(((((Chris)))))) You have each moment, each hour of your life right now and what you decide to enjoy in it: a walk with your dog, looking at a sunset, watching a favorite tv program, listening to music you enjoy, giving a smile to another lonely looking person you see in the grocery store, feeling how good your bed feels while you lay in it, talking with friends here at PC.

It sounds like you are in the depths of your depression right now. That is not an easy time, but it will pass. During those times is when I keep my life as simple as possible, my goals very simple.

I just came through a very bad bout of suicidal depression that lasted for almost a year. Honestly I was lucky to make it through another one. And I know that it could happen again at any time. But each time I survive one it helps me to remember that these horrible depressions do pass - if I keep doing what ever I need to do to stay alive that hour, that day. So while I take meds and go to therapy during those times I also do the simple things I talked about above. I do what ever makes me feel a bit better. If it's staying in bed that day because I can't bear the effort it would take to get out of bed, that's what I do.

If it's getting out for a walk every day that's what I do. If it's isolating from people because I find them too stressing, that's what I do. Right now, while I'm feeling better I enjoy it and don't worry about when the next bout of depression will hit me or how long it will last. Sometimes I'll have one really bad day. Sometimes a week or two and sometimes it goes on and on for months.

Giving up the hope of living my life depression free, (pain free, anxiety free) has released me to accept and enjoy what IS. What is here right now that I can take pleasure from or that will give me meaning in my life this moment.

My track record of hospitalizations and suicide attempts does not bode well for me. And yet going through all that has helped me live better in my life circumstances as I've adjusted to and accepted my chronic illnesses. Keeping up hope for a "normal" life was simply making me more depressed by focusing on what was not going to happen for me.

I find living in reality and dealing with what is works best for me. As I think it also helps some others. Not everyone is the same. Some people are happier to keep hoping. If that's what helps them, or you, then most certainly that's what you should do. I'm simply saying it does not work that way for me, and offering my experience to others. Please take care of yourself Chris.

[lynn P.]

Giving up the hope of living my life depression free, (pain free, anxiety free) has released me to accept and enjoy what IS. What is here right now that I can take pleasure from or that will give me meaning in my life this moment

Wow (((Pomegranate))) that was a very eloquent post. I especially like what you said here about acceptance and living in the moment. When you think of it, this is all any of us have - is this moment. There's no doubt that it's hard living in physical or especially emotional pain but resisting it, makes it more difficult. Even with a headache for example - if we allow ourselves to tense up, it only gets worse. Self acceptance enables the person to move on and deal with their pain. Pining for change only makes the person suffer more. You're so right about how we learn important life lessons when we go through hard times -that's also when we grow and become better people. When we're happy and things are going great we don't learn anything. Isn't it ironic that we only appreciate the good times when we are experiencing bad times - which brings us back to appreciating this MOMENT right now. I bet that any terminal cancer patient would love to go back to their past- even if it wasn't the best to have another chance. We need to be grateful for what we have because it could be worse. Thanks Pom

[Pomegranate]

I have learned that I can be feeling suicidal but if I find some thing or some one to be present with in this moment, I can get through that moment. If I string enough of those moments together I can get through an hour. Enough hours strung together, I can through a day. And so on.... I can get through the holidays, the anniversaries, the losses, etc. I have experienced feeling joy in the depths of also feeling like I do not want to exist anymore.

[Briester]

I have felt the same way Pomegranate thought I can't remember the last time I felt true deep joy.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Babysteps

I now have NOTHING.

I cannot imagine a life without hope. Hope has to be realistic for certain but if there is no hope then what?

I know there is a time to abandon hope. I remember caring for a relatively young adult male who was brain dead. His wife could NOT accept that there was no hope for him to ever be conscious again. Very difficult and sad.

If I had no hope that I could improve my life I would never get out of bed again. Why bother?

I once took an undergrad humanities course in Greek Mythology.

You know the old myth of "Pandora's Box"? (she's given a box that she's not sposed to open and lets all the world's ills out when she breaks down and opens it anyway.)

"Hope" was the last 'imp' to leave the box. Modern readers completely misinterpret the myth by taking this as a good thing!

Ancient Greeks were well aware of the burden of hope. The final imp, Hope, was a malicious, deceptive demon, last out of the box because she was the worst of all. Her role was to lie and to sweetly set gullible humans up to be heartbroken. She was pure evil. The end of the myth is actually quite grim.

The modern interpretation of Hope as some sort of benevolent Tinkerbell that "springs eternal" from Pandora's Box would probably upset an ancient Greek, for they were not as deceived by the little b****!

Great article, thanks! Mike

[lynn09]

Thanks for starting this thread, (((Pom))) - great article and discussion. And a very interesting and thought-provoking perspective on it from the Ancient Greeks, (((cyber))). Thanks for that. I have to agree with what I believe most everyone here has said - it's not a question of whether or not to hope at all, but whether or not what you are hoping for is realistic.

For me personally, I do not hope to be "cured." None of my chronic medical or psychological conditions are ever going away - too much neurological damage to the spinal cord and sciatic nerves, left shoulder, arm, and hand. I have been in pain all my life and will continue to be in pain. I stopped taking pain medication in the 70s after my surgeries - they did little to help the pain, and long-term use would do much more harm than it was worth. Best to learn to live with it and hope that I have the inner strength, courage, and determination to push the boundaries of the limitations it placed on me. I have used this approach with all of the rest of my medical and mental "infirmities" and have gained ground in "managing" them. Despite them all, I managed to work full-time and support myself for 32 years before becoming disabled by them. My hope is to continue to fight to live my life to the fullest extent possible despite them all. That's a hope I can live with. And I hope everyone here can find a way to make peace with the realities of their own situations and find a way to live rich and full lives anyway. You all deserve only the best.

[ZilchHour]

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torments of man.

Friedrich Nietzsche

[Pomegranate]

When I think I'm going to die due to my depression, very simple things like the look in my dogs' eyes, a full moon, a good memory, can bring me a deep feeling of joy, along with sadness.

[Fuzzybear]

(((((((((((((((((( Pom ))))))))))))))))))

[Briester]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

When I think I'm going to die due to my depression, very simple things like the look in my dogs' eyes, a full moon, a good memory, can bring me a deep feeling of joy, along with sadness.

I saw a fantastic Japanese film one time called After Life. It was simply done and very powerful. The setting was a dormitory style place with "counselors" for the recently deceased. These people would meet with the deceased one on one and those spirits would have to choose one moment in their life, one memory, that they'd want to spend the rest of eternity in. Then they'd make a film of that moment and when the showed the film, the spirit could pass on. It's not supposed to be a depressing film but somewhat uplifting in thinking that despite everything a person experiences in life, there is usually at least ONE good moment or memory they could return to and be happy in.

Let's all try to find our memory of happiness when we're feeling down and just go there to rest and recover when we need to before having to deal with our lives as they exist.



P.S. I got it from Netflix for those here in the US and I'm sure you can find it if you're in another country.

[lonegael]

I agree with both yoda and Lynn. I will not be cured of my disorder, but I can work to give it a smaller part of my life than it has had. This means taking it seriously and watching my stress, acknowledging my boundaries, and taking my meds. But this is not the same as letting it rule me or giving up on my dreams. Lynn and Yoda were clear about readjusting dreams so that they can be acheived in TODAY'S situation with the needs and limitations I have now. I refuse to sit and worry about the med stopping working or anything like that. Yes it might happen. and the planet might get hit by a flyingsaucer. I only have today to live and I will do the best I can now. sure I will hope, but I won't promise myself anything other than that I'll do my best. I owe that to me and mine.

[ZilchHour]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

When I think I'm going to die due to my depression, very simple things like the look in my dogs' eyes, a full moon, a good memory, can bring me a deep feeling of joy, along with sadness.

In such moments as you have stated, I feel some part of me really dies inside, a part that could not bear the pain. And thinking about the things that are the reason for which I am alive and I want to live, try to help and fight against these dark times. And the day this balancing force will be overpowered, it would be the end.

Regards
ZILCH HOUR