[Valis]

Ok...this may be hard to understand, but I'll try.

Has anyone ever reached the point where they believe they are "beyond" depression?

Where you don't feel sad, or feel sorrowful, or feel Anything anymore?

I'm afraid that I might have reached a point like that. Where true apathy might have set in, and it s a scary thing known that you really don't care about anything...even your own well being.

I dunno maybe I'm exaggrating the conflict...

I was just wonderng whether anyone thinks it is possible to reach a point in depression where emotions take the background and apathy grabs hold of the wheel.

[dottie]

Yep. I fight it all of the time I'm awake! It's is a scary place to be. I believe it is caused by the meds I take. I take Wellbutrin XL 300mg, Cymbalta, 60mg, Abilify, and Klonopin. These are all my Psych drugs. Then there's my pain meds.

[hillbunnyb]

Dear Valis, I think it's still depression, one of the pits of it.
For me the numb thing acts to give me a break from the details as it were. Have you discussed this phase with your t?
You may be building strength for a breakthrough....

[Lexicon78]

I've been there many times. It's like you are just existing and not feeling anything. My T says that's the worst place to be because you are capable of anything at that point and really don't care what happens either way...be careful.

[DaveyJones]

Yep, I lived there for years...still do for the most part. You're talking about <font color="#AAAAAA"> the grey place </font> ?

DJ

[justaman]

I think I have. In my experience it was negative and suicidal thoughts
without the associated emotions.

[Valis]

Thank you all for your responses...

I guess I was just looking to put things in perspective for myself. I really am thankful for the responses.

". . . It's like you are just existing and not feeling anything. My T says that's the worst place to be because you are capable of anything at that point and really don't care what happens either way" ~ Lexicon said.

I think you said it better than I did Lexicon. I have for so long seemed to be getting no where...or getting any better in feeling good about myself. I feel awful, and I'm to the point where feeling worse than I already am seems like an impossibility.

I feel like I could do anything. Like I could be horrible to myself and others and not care one bit, or be the nicest person in the world and not think twice whether I'm sincere or not.

In being this way I have gotten so much accompished because I have no inhibitions...but I have suffered really bad mentally and emotionally from such.

Maybe I'm thinking about it too much.

Either way...thank youf or your responses once more.

[darkeyes]

Hi there,
Yes, is my answer to your question, it does happen, it had happened to me before I went under the care of a pdoc. and psychologist. Long story, but the outcome was I got DXed (2) and recieve the right meds for me. Previous to that I was considered clinically depressed by my GP and handed down a prescription for an anti-depressant (should of been evaluated by a mental health professional) some meds. didn't work, so we went from one to another.
Talking with a psychologist when some family crisis happened combined with my already depressive state, helped. But not till I saw a pdoc. and was put on proper meds. did I feel I cared about anything. I went through depression to the "blank stage", I felt emotionless and didn't care of if I lived. Didn't even feel like crying anymore.
I do not think it is unusual for untreated or mistreated depression to manifest into this stage.
Just my 2 cents.

Take care,
DE

[Yack]

I feel that way....I do not feel anything...

Scary place to be. For me it's the PTSD - I don't feel anything but blah.

Just wanted to say I can relate and it is rough.

[(JD)]

In one sense, it's called "numbing" and is a coping mechanism. (Albeit not always a good one.)

[Yack]

Flat affect?

[arli]

Dear Valis,

You are not "beyond depression". The feeling you described marks deep, deep depression itself. Probably this is the worst level of depresion.

I have been there... on some way I still feel the same, empty space in my mind. And, this absence of any positive feeling (even and sadness can be positive) is terrible cause it makes me feel hopeles.

Being sad or angry, disapointed, frustrated are signs that we still fight for ourselves. Feeling "nothing" means that we put our wepons down.

I am convinced that every person CAN DETECT at least one reason which lead her in such condition. We should know exactly why we gave up and - we usualy do.

But, to release ourselves we need the strenght to accept the existance of certain problem, ability to identify it exactly and readiness to cut it of and throw it away. This is the hard part of story.

I can prove it, very easy...

Look at the postings on this forum...Reading most of them you will hardly can say that those are written by people with some kind of disorder. And we all are.

Look at what you did write - you seem to be very nice person and, yes, in your posting you DO CARE. You care for people here...you want to be nice...you want to be yourself. You are yourself. You care. You are not "beyond" things. You have feelings, even for unknown people.

But isn't this forum the place where we all escaped from our reality, from people who hurt us, from things or orders we can't accept...

May you have a lot of strenght to be yourself again, wherever you are.

[(JD)]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I am convinced that every person CAN DETECT at least one reason which lead her in such condition. We should know exactly why we gave up and - we usualy do.

But, to release ourselves we need the strenght to accept the existance of certain problem, ability to identify it exactly and readiness to cut it of and throw it away. This is the hard part of story.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

For me, it can't be just one thing that I need to find... and it is beyond myself to identify anything.. as with the level of depression I am in... it's everything. It isn't simple... and surely isn't easy, imo, for me.... Your statement doesn't apply to me... I don't have that hope you have... and surely don't agree with the black and white viewing you suggest... but understand that thatmight be how you have any hope,, yourself

For me, right now, I linger on near immobility (up) to where I am right now... I know things in my mind..but they don't apply to/for me

Apathy, numbing, flat affect yes.... all that... major depression. People who haven't been there don't understand. (But I don't wish it upon anyone just so they understand!)

[arli]

((((_sky))))

Maybe I didn'd express my opinion on the best way...
Just think we can recognize situations, places, people we feel bed in, on or with.

I spent about 5 years in deep depression (with very few episodes of normal condition), without any medical help. Firts I didn't know it is depression. Then i didn't know how to get any help.

I stopped my education (university), I broke my long relationship (He did it, in fact), I wasn't able to keep any job...I was feeling empty and "beyond depression"...I was sure I couldn't feel nothing but - nothing.

Empty, dead, stucked, alone, eating too much or not eating nothing at all for all day long...

I know how you feel. And I am sorry for that, knowing how hard it is.

After terrible panick attacks I had, after some books I read about, I understand that I am not just ill....I accepted the fact that there must be a trigger (or more) for my condition. There must be a reason..

I find the last drop of energy to cope with. Every day is a big battle for me. I introspect myself and it is very painfull, especially when some facts are obvious and related to people I love very much.

I recognised a lot of things which made me disapointed and depressed, even autodestructive...Things which were so painfull that I couldn't even remember easy....I realised that I am alone and that, if want to live, I must fight.

I must survive cause I have my 11 months old baby boy and he need me. He gave me the strenght I need to fight. I was depressd during my pregnancy and have havy episode of postpartum depression...And after panick attacks I became aware that my baby will suffer with me and that I have to find way to cure myself, for sake of him, for sake of his wealth.

I know that finding motivation is the harder part..Being alive and feel hopeles, like dead...it's terrible. But please, try...I am sure you can find the reasons...identify problems...it will not cure you but it will help, it can open you an other door, show you other ways.

If there is any way I can help you - please mail me.

Take care

Alexandra

[EJ711]

Valis,

What you are describing still sounds like depression to me.

Hope the New Year will bring you new hope!

Jane - Oz

[Valis]

Personally I think you are right arli...if you find the reasons of your conflict and change or get rid of them, hope could resurface and you'll be much more capable than before in ridding yourself of apathy.

BUT (there is always a "but") I believe I am more in the boat with sky. Somewhere along the line, when I was analyizing myself, I lost the reason for me losing my hope. It got blurred in with all of the other unknown factors of why I "feel" the way I do.

"Look at what you did write - you seem to be very nice person and, yes, in your posting you DO CARE. You care for people here...you want to be nice...you want to be yourself. You are yourself. You care. You are not "beyond" things. You have feelings, even for unknown people. " ~ said Arli.

I thought about this for a moment, and I realized that you are right...I do care in a sense...but maybe for all the wrong reasons?

I care because I feel like I have an obligation to (I have always felt that I had an obligation to take in consideration anothers opinion or troubles) but not neccessarily because I want to. Does that make sense?

Maybe I'm missing DESIRE rather than the EMOTION. I want to be able to say that I honest care about something, rather than saying I have an obligation to do this and that because that is just the way things are.

For a long time, even when I was alot younger, I always felt more like an an "inpersonal object" that was made be used, rather than a human being that has a right to act and be who I want to be. Basically, I feel like since I'm a "nobody," and no body (not even family) has any obligation to me why should I have an desire or a want for anything at all?

Why should I care about myself when its apparent that I'm not going anywhere anyway?

Why should I care about anything earnestly, when all attempts end in nothing but failure and I end up feeling more horrible than when I started?

I dunno...I still do not feel like what I'm saying makes any sense to anyone else, but I hope it does. I hate to seem like another whining fool that can't help himself.

either way, thanks for the advice arli (and everyone else) you gave me something to think about.

[EJ711]

Valis,
I can remember during a bout of depression in my earlier years, the depression changed into more of an apathy, like you describe. I finally worked my way out of apathy, and into a sense of living again. Jane - Oz

[(JD)]

I think wanting to be able to is one of the last stages of deep depression as you explained... before the apathy totally takes over... the mind continues to try to roust us but.... (yes the proverbial but ) the feelings don't match.. the feelings of caring , truly caring, just aren't anywhere.

We do things.. because we are supposed to, because others expect it, because we used to and we don't want others to think we don't care, because maybe we won't always be this way and we don't want to have to explain this later?

at this stage, others tell us... good to see you back 'doing"... even here... you must be feeling better, you sure are posting alot.... but it's all part of the ploy. IRL I take extra time (and you know what I mean by even more EXTRA time) to do my makeup "just so" when I am in some of my darkest days... I don't want others to really know how depressed I am.. it's my own black hole.... leave me alone! (well... not really, BUT...)

[arli]

I am sorry if my answers were pretentious.

Just, I am person who, deeply inside, love to live. I would like to help, if I could. And I know that in dark depression all what somebody need is to be left alone.

But, reading your postings - Valis and Sky...I noticed again...as much the person is inteligent (smart) and educated as much darker and deeper depression can be.

Probably the social environment plays it's role too. I live in a country where things are still functioning on easy way. No much money but no much stress too. No very polite people but no need to smile to everyone either.

Here we are frustrated by haos and anarchy we live in. I developed countries people are stucked among obligations and duties characteristic for an orderly society.

Maybe the key is - to try to be youself and to behave always as we feel...(frenkly... I am afraid that we are late for this a few thousands years . )

Wish you all to discover the nice side of life again. I keep trying

Alexandra