[venusss]

Okay, so I hate when I get to the "don't want to live" point. Those scare me, I find them irrational and stupid. It is mostly what i call "Veronika moment" (refering to a book by Coelho). I hate when I get down, even very down to "don't want to live" for no reason. It makes me feel like spoiled ungrateful brat. I hate when I lose all my spirit and motivation and turn into whiney emo.

But there are times I am very deep, pondering the sense of life, wishing for end of times and sitting with thoughts black as tar and image dark and decandent... and I find myself enjoying. It is kind of world-woe, when you feel that everything out there is wrong... and I feel enlightened that I see it. It is deep state, but I can be creative. Yes, I am withdrawn and probably even Franz Kafka would not want to hang out with me, because I talk death and how it is sometimes better than life with no purpose, I talk and think of destruction as first step to creation...

does anybody feel the same way? Do you enjoy depression on intellectual level?

No, not at all.

[mel80]

Never have never will I h8t depression.

[SoupDragon]

Love Coelho - I am not sure whether this is what you are referring to - but I am starting to realise the route of my problems may be partly due to that fact that I feel things so deeply. The depth of these feelings lead me to caring for those who are in pain or suffering as I am able to empathise, has led me to vegetarianism (poor helpless animals) and generally respecting and considering all creatures great and small. I wonder if the flip side of being free of these dark times would be not to feel things so deeply and is that what I want? To not know the pain and suffering of others to not be able to really empathise and even not to feel the wonder of the more positive feelings too.

So although for me the dark times are a real hard struggle right now, I acknowledge that without them, I would not be me and the one thing I like about myself is my ability to care and and be mindful of others on this planet of ours.

[venusss]

Yeah, my ability to feel emotions to the bone is something I am proud of. I am very interconnected with the world... which can sometimes send me into very deep despair. But would I want to be just happy or normal? It would not feel normal to me, not after I experienced the intensity.

I wonder how much is this connected to my other choices in life. I have "obsession" with the dark side of life.

[Shadow-world]

I remember a similar thread a little while ago where I've made the distinction I'm going to make now again: I sometimes like being sad, introspective, pensive or melancholy and I can sometimes have my creative moments then, too.

However, I would distinguish them from full-blown depression, which leaves me devoid of hope and which I find really hard to cope with. So, no, I don't like depression as such at all but can value certain aspects that might ALSO be ascribed to depression - but I appreciate them in a way so that they are divorced from depression and therefore I don't regard them as depression's aspects as such.

I'm not sure whether this makes sense.

[Maliya]

I don't think this is exactly what you mean, but I have encountered times when I seem to love my depression as it is the only thing I've really known. Because I was depressed for so long, for years on end, it became a comfortable place to live in terms of "at least I can't fall further from here" stability. I didn't really love it, but it was all I knew. Does that make sense?

[Roguewave]

There's a German word for what you're describing. Don't remember it.

Honestly, I can't tell whether it's enlightened or absolutely wrong. I get it, too. When it happens I generally go to get a reality check.

[NeverStoppedCrying]

I can definitely relate. I mean, I hate most of being depressed, but there is a part where I feel... englightened, like you said. I feel very deep and that's when I write out the best poems. I also feel that's about the closest I've been to happy. Kind of mournful, but in a good way... I know it probably makes no sense. But. Yeah. :P

I was going to completely agree with The Byzantine "No, not at all"...

But then I saw SoupDragon's post, and identified with it.

While I do not 'enjoy' any aspects of my depression, maybe I can concede that maybe it helps me to feel more deeply, to have more empathy and understanding. (And I too have become vegetarian!) Without depression, maybe I wouldn't be who I am. I have to believe that one day I will come out of this stronger for the experience.

[St406]

Something for you to think about.... I read that some in evolutionary psychology believe that depression is possibly a natural mechanism of the healthy mind. In depression our thoughts become dark, overly emotional and yet focused. Focused on what? Our problems. Address the problems of that focus and the depression subsides. Approx. 50% of the population experiences depression throughout life, so they theorize it has to have a healthy function.

When this function is faulty, we have lifelong struggles with depression/anxiety which may not be life problem based.

It seems you enjoy the resultant introspection.

[dismantle.repair]

There's a 15 page article in the NY times about this.
Somewhere they mentioned that Darwin was depressed for 2 out of every 3 days.
But he took his depression and asserted it into his work.

There are times when I am comfortable with the depression I'm in. I don't... enjoy it, per se, but I accept that it makes me think way more critically than most other people. I see scenarios that most people don't....

However, most of the time, I just hate it.

[OneRedRose]

I feel the same, sometimes I enjoy it, it writes my music, it allows me to see past the sugar coated rubbish the world hands you and see it for the darkness it really is, but I do hate when I get too the point where I want it too end, because I dont.

[Lillyleaf]

I agree with Venus. Although I'm not sure I'd call it liking. it's just more of simply how I am. Depression changes how I think. How I see life. How I rate things. Not because of how I feel, but what things mean to me.
Depression lets me think differently and changes how I see things.
I dont enjoy it, or even like it it's more of how I am. How I dont know who I would be without it.
I hate the feelings and the pain, but when it impacts how I think its hard to see what I would be without it. Because in the end it's part of me. How is changes me.

~Lillyleaf~

[venusss]

Something for you to think about.... I read that some in evolutionary psychology believe that depression is possibly a natural mechanism of the healthy mind. In depression our thoughts become dark, overly emotional and yet focused. Focused on what? Our problems. Address the problems of that focus and the depression subsides. Approx. 50% of the population experiences depression throughout life, so they theorize it has to have a healthy function.

There's a 15 page article in the NY times about this.
Somewhere they mentioned that Darwin was depressed for 2 out of every 3 days.
But he took his depression and asserted it into his work.

this is interesting.

I also take my depression onto my work. I am hoping to come with some revolutionary political philosophy still.

I cannot do it all the time, there are times I am just too slowed down to produce anything worthy... but at times, I can channel it... and I think I do it quite well. Whenever it be my essays or poetry.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by Lillyleaf

I agree with Venus. Although I'm not sure I'd call it liking. it's just more of simply how I am. Depression changes how I think. How I see life. How I rate things. Not because of how I feel, but what things mean to me.
Depression lets me think differently and changes how I see things.
I dont enjoy it, or even like it it's more of how I am. How I dont know who I would be without it.
I hate the feelings and the pain, but when it impacts how I think its hard to see what I would be without it. Because in the end it's part of me. How is changes me.

~Lillyleaf~

this is also factor for me. This is me...would I really want to be different? Would I really want to be one of the normal people with emotions as deep as a poodle?

Not sure about that at all...

[Vibe]

Yes - yes to the 'comfortable because I'm used to it' aspect, yes to the 'deep thought' aspect, and yes to the fact that it makes me a better and more enriched person. I enjoy all of these, despite the fact that it's also painful. I think I must be a naturally melancholy person because I've been this way all my life. However I've had a couple months of relative respite here and there, and the person I became bothered me. I lost a lot of depth and substance and ceased to be me. Now I try to walk the line.

For me it's not just deep thoughts but a spiritual nature which is often enhanced by extreme feeling. There's a beauty to the depths I sink to and I become more open to thoughts and feelings I can barely describe... and would likely send others running. However, I've followed this to it's extreme and found myself euphorically suicidal, so I can't go too far over to the other side either.

Or perhaps I just inherited a touch of my great grandmother's psychotic depression. Probably a bit of both.

[missbelle]

No I hate depression...I feel almost physically sick like with the flu as well

[venusss]

Originally Posted by Vibe

Yes - yes to the 'comfortable because I'm used to it' aspect, yes to the 'deep thought' aspect, and yes to the fact that it makes me a better and more enriched person. I enjoy all of these, despite the fact that it's also painful. I think I must be a naturally melancholy person because I've been this way all my life. However I've had a couple months of relative respite here and there, and the person I became bothered me. I lost a lot of depth and substance and ceased to be me. Now I try to walk the line.

For me it's not just deep thoughts but a spiritual nature which is often enhanced by extreme feeling. There's a beauty to the depths I sink to and I become more open to thoughts and feelings I can barely describe... and would likely send others running. However, I've followed this to it's extreme and found myself euphorically suicidal, so I can't go too far over to the other side either.

Or perhaps I just inherited a touch of my great grandmother's psychotic depression. Probably a bit of both.

Yeah, not so long ago I found using my university level knowledge to justify why I just should die (like a beautiful flower too!). I would go and deconstruct every detail of my daily life and the world and dive in unprecendent depths... where I would overwhelm myself.

I am right now trying to get my **** back together and not to use my knowledge as a weapon against myself, because to be honest, this is a lose-lose scenario.

The thing is... the thoughts can get strangely enjoyable and exciting. It is boring to get back to the normal somehow, I always feel bit dazed after coming up from the depths... (it is for me in a way even worse than coming down from a (hypo)manic episode... because that way I am just exhausted as hell and down...).

[clouds_and_sun]

No no no, I don't like it at all, I love laughing. I even hate crying.
(((hugs to you))))

[Vibe]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Yeah, not so long ago I found using my university level knowledge to justify why I just should die (like a beautiful flower too!). I would go and deconstruct every detail of my daily life and the world and dive in unprecendent depths... where I would overwhelm myself.

I am right now trying to get my **** back together and not to use my knowledge as a weapon against myself, because to be honest, this is a lose-lose scenario.

The thing is... the thoughts can get strangely enjoyable and exciting. It is boring to get back to the normal somehow, I always feel bit dazed after coming up from the depths... (it is for me in a way even worse than coming down from a (hypo)manic episode... because that way I am just exhausted as hell and down...).

Yeah, there is something almost deflating about coming back to reality from the tides of deep introspection that can sometimes go along with depression. It's very alluring. I think it's good that your rational mind can see that there are dangers inherent in those depths though. Realizing the downsides can help one stay balanced. Can help to explore in a safer and more responsible fashion.

There are definitely things I try to stay away from at times, because I know I need to stay more grounded. Music is a good example. I love it, but sometimes it can drag me to places I can't afford to go at that point in time. And sometimes I get so lost that it does become painful, and harder to come back from. It's not that I don't still go to those places, but I try to remain very aware of what's happening to me while I'm doing it, and what I can do to help myself come back. When I get to the point that thoughts of death are infiltrating my thoughts and becoming harder to get away from, I know I've gone too far again.

I think it must be difficult for you because you can't just avoid things that bring you to those places. You are deeply involved in your career, schooling, and the state of the world. It'll be an interesting challenge trying to balance that involvement against the dark paths it can sometimes lead you down.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by clouds_and_sun

No no no, I don't like it at all, I love laughing. I even hate crying.
(((hugs to you))))

the thing is... life is not all about laughing. And crying can be extremely healing and appropriate at times.

[Placeholder]

What a candid post. I definitely enjoy it on an intellectual level, probably started with Morrissey. I was 16 when "how soon is now" was released and I still remember how it felt to be understood. I always felt drawn to Zelda Fitzgerald and Anne Sexton and Sylvia Plath etc etc etc. While it sucks to have gone through the **** I have as well as being from suicidal stock one of the gifts is being able to relate to addiction, depression, compulsion and obsession and being able to parse from those who "wear it well" to find solace.

I have found a lot of relief through literature for my symptoms and have through a long excruciating process have accepted that I tend toward melancholia, and the more I travel and turn inward and ignore the US obsession with "happiness" the less tortured I feel.

There is a great quote from collette: "who said you should be happy; do your work" of course the problem is when depression is so debilitating you can't work.

That said, I am now going to read veronika, which I had never heard of before.

[venusss]

I think it must be difficult for you because you can't just avoid things that bring you to those places. You are deeply involved in your career, schooling, and the state of the world. It'll be an interesting challenge trying to balance that involvement against the dark paths it can sometimes lead you down.

Yeah, finding that balance between too involved and non-involved is hard at times.

One of my therapists would tell me to enjoy my pity parties and let him know when I was ready to move on.