B****y rant. Sorry.

I was chatting online with this guy I've known since high school. He knows about my depression and anxiety and says he understands. He has a couple of SI scars from back when he was a teenager, and so he thinks he's been through exactly the same thing as I have. But that HE got over it - so naturally, I should get over it too.

If he HAD been through the same thing as me, I'm sure he wouldn't keep saying the things he does. Going through an teenage-angst-fuelled experimental 'goth' phase is not the same thing as long term clinical depression, IMO.

This whole conversation started because he asked if I'd been drinking - no, because I'm on antidepressants. He seemed to think this would be a temporary thing, so I told him that there's a chance I could be on medication for life - because some people have naturally lower mood, and maybe I was one of those people, based on my experiences so far... He then got into this whole THING about me always thinking the worst case scenario -- say what? Being medicated so I can be happy is not the worst case scenario as I see it.

He continued:
"You'll be on antidepressants for no longer than it takes you to get better, which will not be for life... It's easier to lie and medicate than it is to solve. Persevere, don't look for excuses and shrug this **** off."

Me:
"I'm not looking for excuses or trying to shrug anything off! I'm getting treatment - all the treatment I can find or resource"

Him:
"I sincerely believe that this is just a trough, a down spike, for you. It'll hurt and it'll suck but you'll come out of it knowing what such places are like and it'll give you resolve."

Me:
"its not something I can 'snap out of' because I have the will or resolve... This could be a longterm battle, it already has been..."

Him:
"Speaking as someone who's been depressed, I know the allure of being a tragic figure. I know the idea of wallowing in misery, when you're down, is attractive."

Me:
"What..? Please tell me you're kidding. I don't want to be this way. You think this is for attention? This is not attractive. I never wanted to be a tragic figure!"

Him:
"I know, but I keep saying "it's going to pass" and you keep saying "This may be forever". Well **** you, hun (totally still love you) but shut that **** up. I know how you are, been there myself. But I want you to look to the future and have faith and hope in your own strength and ability. I don't want to hear you giving me the worse case scenario."

Me:
"You know how hard I've tried to fight this? How my health has declined, how I didn't know what the **** was happening, how I still don't? The docs STILL don't know if my real problem is physical or psychological - because psychological problems create physical symptoms and vice versa... I struggled so hard to keep everything going, but my own body and mind let me down in a way I still can't quite grasp, or understand, or really explain... I'm not saying that this is forever, but I may have to stay on meds long term - I'm not saying I'll be depressed forever, I'm saying I may need to be treated for depression on a continuing basis in order to control it - and that's not the worst case scenario, it's just an option, a strategy... for living!"

Him:
"it's a possibility you may be eaten by a pack of escaped coyotes tomorrow. You making plans for that?"

Me:
"You think i'm weak. You think I'm wallowing. You think I 'want' to be this way..."

Him:
"Nope. I think depression makes despair and despondency seem rational. I was just trying to help, clearly it's not working."

Me:
"You can't just 'inspire' me to get better with a few philosophical words! I can't think my way out of this just like that. My problems are deep and complex, which is why I'm seeking treatment from experts. I already have a therapist, I already have a doctor. I just need you to be a friend and hear me - not try to 'help' me by pointing out what my 'problem' is..."


Aaaand so on. Ugh. Ever just feel totally and completely misunderstood?
This friend just seems to have THE knack for saying THE wrong thing to me lately. Of course it could be because I'm an irritable depressive with very little patience right now...? I'm so frustrated with this illness - almost as frustrated as I am of trying to justify it, explain it, justify myself, explain myself...

Can anyone relate?

[roads]

I hear you. I think I understand. I'm still in treatment & have people around me who are "through" treatment. Don't they understand that there isn't a cure for any of this?

I've quit drinking & quit smoking but still have to fight the urge to some degree. Depression isn't a whole lot different. We'll always have our triggers. We can always tumble again.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm really sorry he thinks he's being such a good friend yet can't see what the effect is that he's having on you. It sounds as if he's really quite oblivious.

[unaluna]

Two things: 1, he apparently still loves being codependent, what's up with that?! 2, he's that rich & successful, eh? why don't he spread some of that around my or your way?

He ain't "over" crap. He has the insight of a gnat. Speaking of which, why do we keep insulting gnats like that? You are managing. He needs to mind his own beeswax.

maybe it's time for a little break from this "friend," just some girl.

I agree with my kids are cool.you don't deserve someone being like that. He clearly doesn't understand as much as he claims, xxx

[Wannabe_Kenny]

"Speaking as someone who's been depressed, I know the allure of being a tragic figure. I know the idea of wallowing in misery, when you're down, is attractive."
that would have been the point where i had stopped the conversation...

the problem is that of course, that every person is different and therefore handles
problems differently. if that guy can't help you, u need to find someone else who does
possibly he had different problems then you, and therefore had a different "cure" that he now may think can cure others too (but i of course have no idea^^)
but first, you need to know what you are actually seeking, to be honest, i found
"I just need you to be a friend and hear me - not try to 'help' me by pointing out what my 'problem' is..."
kind of confusing... why don't u want him to help you? isn't that what friends are for? o.O what do you really want from him?

if you don't want to talk about it and 'solve' it with a "friend", then you should tell that in the beginning... i know when i person i care for has problems, i want to go to the very bottom of it and help him as much is i can (but since i expect an answer to my "what do you want from him" question, i can give you a more detailed/more fitting advise later )
hoping to hear from you soon

Originally Posted by Wannabe_Kenny

but first, you need to know what you are actually seeking, to be honest, i found
"I just need you to be a friend and hear me - not try to 'help' me by pointing out what my 'problem' is..."
kind of confusing... why don't u want him to help you? isn't that what friends are for? o.O what do you really want from him?

It might not be clear from my post, but it was unsolicited advice. I didn't go to him for advice, we were just chatting - then he starts with all his opinions of what's wrong with me. It's not something I find helpful - as he is not in a position to be helping me. He's not exeperienced or qualified to help me, and I find his advice to be.. well, less than helpful. Mostly he just upsets me. And, I have told him this before and requested that we stick to lighter topics.

Thanks for your input though, I do hear what you're saying, and I appreciate it

[Unrigged64072835]

Ugh, it doesn't help when somebody thinks all depressions are the same. It's just not that simple.

Since you've already told him before that you don't want this type of conversation, and apparently he's not respecting your wishes, it may be best to let him go for now.

I hate when people try to minimize Depression & assume that we are making excuses etc. It really pisses me off when they try to tell us what they think is best. Their intentions are good, but yet they don't get the concept of what affects you may affect me differently or not at all. We all have similar issues, but each of us reacts differently & even when our reaction is similar, there's something about it that makes us different. What may be easy for someone else can be extremely hard for us & vice versa. I wish people could get that & I mean truly understand it.

I hope you don't take his words too seriously because no one knows you better than you. In the end, you have to find what will help you no matter what others have to say about your issues. I wish you the best <3

[Wannabe_Kenny]

for me admitting that i take antidepressiva for a long time wouldn't be part of a normal conversation o.O

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

He's not exeperienced or qualified to help me.

well, in his opinion he is qualified and experienced
and often the feeling that someone understands how you are feeling, and has felt the same way before can be very helpful, and therefore he tells you that
IMO you can't dislike a person for wanting to help you... but of course i have no idea what kind of person he is and what kind of intentions he has.
still, when you don't want to talk about it (and of course that happens), just say it directly "i don't want to talk about it" and shut the topic yourself
that he tries to talk about it to you is (in my opinion) a sign that he really wants to help you... I know that I wouldn't let go if a person I cared for has problems, especially when I see that that person can't solve them herself and i would try to talk about it whenever i see it fit (but still, i don't know what kind of person he is and how close he is to you)

what i would like to know is: do you have friends or family with whom you actually talk about your depression? even though they are not trained professionals, they can help you emotionally in a way a doctor never could...
and of course, is always better than just

[Flooded]

Aarrgggh, no one understands how you feel because they are NOT you! How you experience depression is relative to you and you only!

And I really hate know-it-alls with a I-got-over-it-and-so-should-you attitude. Good for you f__kstick now get lost and leave me with my tissues and Prozac!

Originally Posted by Wannabe_Kenny

for me admitting that i take antidepressiva for a long time wouldn't be part of a normal conversation o.O

well, in his opinion he is qualified and experienced...
IMO you can't dislike a person for wanting to help you...

what i would like to know is: do you have friends or family with whom you actually talk about your depression? even though they are not trained professionals, they can help you emotionally in a way a doctor never could...
and of course, is always better than just

It came up because he was talking about drinking and I said I couldn't. I don't think it's so out of the ordinary, I do try to be open with my friends. And yes, I do talk to some of my friends about depression, or some aspects of it. Some people understand, some people don't, but what bothers me is the "I've been there and I know what I'm talking about" attitude of this particular person - especially as I don't feel he understands my situation - that's all. I do not dislike this person, but I feel very frustrated when he takes this know-it-all attitude with me. Like I said, I don't have much patience right now. I was trying to convey the feeling of being misunderstood, this frustration. And again, I just wanted to feel 'heard'... I don't feel like my friend was hearing me, he was projecting his own experience on to me and then telling me how I should 'get over it' - and that's quite a different thing.

[Wannabe_Kenny]

i'm not a native english speaker so my words are not as accurate as they could be
e.g. "IMO you can't dislike a person for wanting to help you..." was not an accusation in any way (it could be interpreted that way) i'm sorry if i caused any misunderstanding anywhere
i just wanted to state out that his persistence in wanting to "help" you probably means that he really wants to make you feel better or even "get over it", not that he isn't listening to you, and all the things with which he thinks he can help you are based on his experience.
there are similarities in the depressions and the way of coping with them, so there is value in having someone who has been through a depression before.
but of course when he can't shut off his narrow view that his experience is EXACTLY the same as yours.
i still think that you need to show him his limits during the conversation repeatedly, when he's stepping across it (I know I would step over it a lot for a person I cared) and only be harsh to him when he continues even though you clearly told him to stop. (I hope I put that in a comprehensible way...)

i hope i don't sound like someone who "knows it all" or who wants to tell you what to do, this is of course my interpretation of the (very little ) information i got and the experience i had so far.
actually i don't think that there is an everlasting depression where you can't "step out of" either... but i think you have enough of this topic now ^^
sorry if I may be getting on your nerves, i'm new to this forum and don't quite know what people are actually expecting from it.
if it wouldn't bother you too much we could chat (or whatever you do around here xD) i'm very interested in hearing your story
many and to you

You speak English very well, Wannabe Kenny

I think you're right about my friend in that he does want to help, and he does care -- and I do appreciate that -- but it's frustrating for me because I just don't feel he 'gets' it. I'm not sure he's had depression, but I know he certainly never had anxiety, and if someone hasn't been there I don't think they can fully understand how it manifests -- he has a habit of oversimplifying my problems (as he sees them) and then patronising me, although I'm sure he doesn't mean to. I do make sure to try and stop these conversations with him, but he's kinda pig-headed! I think I just need to avoid speaking with him while I am in this state of mind, because my tolerance/patience is low right now, and I don't want to be a b****!

You didn't get on my nerves, it was thoughtful of you to reply. Welcome to the forum, I hope you'll find it a supportive place to be. I'm sure I'll be seeing you around, and I'll be interested to hear your story too Take care!

[dragonfly2]

Originally Posted by just_some_girl

I just need you to be a friend and hear me - not try to 'help' me by pointing out what my 'problem' is..."
Can anyone relate?

I think this one sentence sums up the real root of what went wrong with this conversation.

It's a fundamental difference of how men and women communicate. You want to be heard and understood. His natural inclination is to try to fix things. You didn't want anything fixed, you just wanted to be understood and validated. So no matter what came out of his mouth next, if it wasn't what you needed at that moment (to be heard), then it wasn't going to be received well. And there is no judgement here - your needs at the time simply didn't match what he was capable of giving then.

This is of course separate from what he actually said and whatever his perceptions of his relevant experience may be. It's just another element of the basis of the conversation to be considered.

If it's any consolation, my husband doesn't get it either. It's just not how most guys are wired. Not to say that there aren't men who do get it, it just hasn't been my experience.

[CantExplain]

Your friend doesn't understand and he's not trying to understand. That sucks.

But he does still care.