[snarkydaddy]

Can someone point me in a direction.
Is it "disgust" with oneself exclusively?
Can it be "disgust" situationaly and not at all directed at ones self?

Any help here would be awesome.
thank you

[Rose76]

I think depression is what sets in when a person thinks that they cannot improve there situation by making an effort. It happens to animals, too. Behavior becomes passive. It usually happens after the individual (human or animal) has endured some difficult stressor that it has attempted to alleviate. When it finds that its attempts are in vain, it gives up trying.

I don't think disgust has to be involved, necessarily, but I believe it often can be.

What I said above is called the "learned helplessness" theory of depression. It is possible to come up with different theories.

Did you see this video that was posted? I was blown away.

I think it is a different for everybody yet there are so many experiences and feelings that somebody who has been through it can relate to through somebody else's experience. I do visual art and I struggle with wanting to describe how I feel in images. I have not gotten there. Sometimes I feel like I am too close to it and sometimes I feel like I am too far to from it.

I would be surprised if someone asking this question could not get a sense of it from this talk. It is 30 minutes.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=322627

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[Rose76]

I am watching that now. It is really worthwhile. (Andrew Solomon speaking about depression.)

[snarkydaddy]

Thank you all.

While I am asking. Does anyone have issues with attachments? Meaning not being able to have them. This could be while depressed or in a good frame of mind.

[GaSusan]

it is something that sucks the life and happiness out of you a little more everyday

[GaSusan]

attachments or relationships?

[jesusplay]

can you imagine a future?

[Alone & confused]

My T told me years ago that there was a difference between depression and sadness. She said " clinical depression" is a chemical imbalance. She said if there is an environmental reason for "depression" it's sadness or something else. She said that clinical depression comes without a known cause. Not sure if that was the type of answer you were looking for, but I hope it helps.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by Alone & confused

My T told me years ago that there was a difference between depression and sadness. She said " clinical depression" is a chemical imbalance. She said if there is an environmental reason for "depression" it's sadness or something else. She said that clinical depression comes without a known cause. Not sure if that was the type of answer you were looking for, but I hope it helps.

This explanation, as you've written it, is what a lot of people, including many professionals, believe. It is not universally accepted. A pdoc once told a group I was in that there is no proof that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance. I read a book that says that it is possible that the "chemical imbalance" is the result (not the cause) of the depression. (Apparently, reduced levels of Serotonin do correspond with lowered depression, though it's not clear which comes first . . . the egg, or the chicken, so to speak.)

I think this is still a very argued point.

[Alone & confused]

Originally Posted by Rose76

This explanation, as you've written it, is what a lot of people, including many professionals, believe. It is not universally accepted. A pdoc once told a group I was in that there is no proof that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance. I read a book that says that it is possible that the "chemical imbalance" is the result (not the cause) of the depression. (Apparently, reduced levels of Serotonin do correspond with lowered depression, though it's not clear which comes first . . . the egg, or the chicken, so to speak.)

I think this is still a very argued point.

I agree with you. Like I said, this was many years ago & there's been more research since I've seen her. But it did give me a hint of an idea if it was something I needed to address with docs or if it was something I could change by changing my environmental situation. I once told her that I must be "terminally sad " then because none of the meds were working! I do believe that things that we go through can change our
Chemical balance. Just like when fear causes the "fight or flight" response. So I think the two go hand in hand. But I don't think that "temporary setbacks" can be considered a depression if it can be easily resolved & is short term. Do you agree? I'm always interested in learning more.

Originally Posted by snarkydaddy

Does anyone have issues with attachments? Meaning not being able to have them. This could be while depressed or in a good frame of mind.

When I'm depressed I have a huge problem with attachment. I generally don't bother to hang out with people but when I force myself I very rarely have fun even if I put on a brave face and no one notices anything is wrong. Usually I'm alright during but then afterwards I'll head back and think to myself "well. That wasn't worth it." It's really difficult because I really like hanging out with my friends but when I'm depressed I feel like it isn't worth the effort. I find myself cancelling on people all the time.

Originally Posted by Rose76

This explanation, as you've written it, is what a lot of people, including many professionals, believe. It is not universally accepted. A pdoc once told a group I was in that there is no proof that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance. I read a book that says that it is possible that the "chemical imbalance" is the result (not the cause) of the depression. (Apparently, reduced levels of Serotonin do correspond with lowered depression, though it's not clear which comes first . . . the egg, or the chicken, so to speak.)

I think this is still a very argued point.

I don't think the "chemical imbalance" theory is argued anymore. Actually it never really was. I think it was Eli Lilly that came up with the idea just before Prozac was released. The problem is their sample included people that have previously taken antidepressants. The people that were depressed but hadn't taken an ad did not have that "chemical imbalance". So it isn't the depression that causes it. It is the AD. I think of the AD as a faucet with a couple settings that responding to dosage. You can't turn off the faucet unless you stop taking the pill. You can't reduce the flow unless you reduce the dosage. Your brain handles this much better. It only produces the seratonin it needs. However it does sometimes need help. I just think the AD is like turning on a firehose. Sometimes it is necessary to jump start but a lot of people could be effective with other things. It was necessary to jump start me last year.

They actually don't know why ads work but they definitely don't work for everyone. For at least 5 or 10 years, probably more, they have not been studying this at all. It has shifted to neurology. Note that they keep coming out with new pills though

When I was coming off an ad a few years ago I was having some trouble. I had to go back up a dose then decrease in smaller increments with longer intervals. So then I go do this two week aruyvedic style cleanse. It cleanses out your gut which is where 99% of seratonin is stored. After the cleanse I was able to drop the ad completely with no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. I also stopped drinking coffee for something like 7 months. That was kind of a bummer actually... I like everything about coffee

Anyway, I believe the medicine creates extra seratonin and it gets stored in the gut like fat cells. Clearly this is a mix of anecdotal and science but I'm sticking with it, darn it.

There is also proof ad alters your brain. People on ad for a long time will probably never reverse that. Hence I don't think the goal should be to think ad is the "fix" if not "cure". I think it is a tool but to really get better you need something else. Varies from person to person.

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Originally Posted by Alone & confused

I agree with you. Like I said, this was many years ago & there's been more research since I've seen her. But it did give me a hint of an idea if it was something I needed to address with docs or if it was something I could change by changing my environmental situation. I once told her that I must be "terminally sad " then because none of the meds were working! I do believe that things that we go through can change our
Chemical balance. Just like when fear causes the "fight or flight" response. So I think the two go hand in hand. But I don't think that "temporary setbacks" can be considered a depression if it can be easily resolved & is short term. Do you agree? I'm always interested in learning more.

I think depression is bio social (dbt term). Some level of you may be prone to it and some part of it is learned behavior or circumstances. Like overwhelmingly bad experiences or insufficient connection. That's why, I believe, some people do well with therapy alone or maybe even designing their own therapy. And others need outside help. Depression caused by an event without a history of depression is called situational depression. Like grief. It can develop into full blown depression but it should generally not be treated with meds. There are always exceptions of course.

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[Rose76]

Originally Posted by Alone & confused

I agree with you. Like I said, this was many years ago & there's been more research since I've seen her. But it did give me a hint of an idea if it was something I needed to address with docs or if it was something I could change by changing my environmental situation. I once told her that I must be "terminally sad " then because none of the meds were working! I do believe that things that we go through can change our
Chemical balance. Just like when fear causes the "fight or flight" response. So I think the two go hand in hand. But I don't think that "temporary setbacks" can be considered a depression if it can be easily resolved & is short term. Do you agree? I'm always interested in learning more.

Being put on an antidepressant help me a lot when I was stressing out over a school vocational program I was involved in. It also helped me to sleep more normal hours, which I hadn't done my whole life.

Then some years later I was getting awful depressed and went to see a pdoc and a therapist. After weeks of seeing them, I was just getting worse. I was becoming suicidal. I asked myself if there was anything in my life, like environment, that I could change. I decided to change where I lived and where I worked, and I stopped seeing the pdoc and T. Once I made those changes, I became enormously improved. I realized I had been trying to persevere in a situation that I hated. What I most needed to do was to get out of it. No one could see that, but me.

I still kept taking the med, which continued to help me. It still helps me. But it would have been useless, if I had stayed in circumstances that made me miserable.

[Alone & confused]

Have any of you heard anyone say that depression is anger turned inward? I don't remember where I heard that, but it just came to my mind & I am curious of anyone thinks there's any truth to it? I sometimes think that may be the case with me, as I am Always mad & disappointed in myself for not living up to my own expectations. Having said that, now I'm wondering if my "manic" episodes are nothing more than a build up of the depression exploding into a fit of rage because I get so tired of feeling so powerless against my problems?

[Rose76]

I have heard of that . . . . depression being anger turned inward. I can see some truth to that idea . . . but I think it over-generalizes. I'm not willing to sum up depression quite that simply. Then, again, some people I've known who have recurring depression do seem to have some simmering unresolved anger, including myself.

[Alone & confused]

Originally Posted by Rose76

I have heard of that . . . . depression being anger turned inward. I can see some truth to that idea . . . but I think it over-generalizes. I'm not willing to sum up depression quite that simply. Then, again, some people I've known who have recurring depression do seem to have some simmering unresolved anger, including myself.

I'm with you on that one. I don't think it's a blanket that covers everyone, but if it does happen to fit, how then do we control the anger, & by extension, eliminate the depression?

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Rose76 View Post

This explanation, as you've written it, is what a lot of people, including many professionals, believe. It is not universally accepted. A pdoc once told a group I was in that there is no proof that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance. I read a book that says that it is possible that the "chemical imbalance" is the result (not the cause) of the depression. (Apparently, reduced levels of Serotonin do correspond with lowered depression, though it's not clear which comes first . . . the egg, or the chicken, so to speak.)

I think this is still a very argued point.

I think is my case it is totally biological and genetic. Here is a very good article on all the latest research summed up my the national institutes of health.
Neurobiology of depression: an integrated view of key findings

I do agree however that it works both ways. pyshotherapy, diet, exercise etc. can and do influence brain chemistry. There have been alot of studies on stroke victims and the neuroplasticity of the brain. What is hard is that it takes so much work to change it and when you don't have the energy or motivation to get out of bed it is very difficult. I am a big believer in meditation and practice it alot but it takes alot of work and practice.

[snarkydaddy]

Originally Posted by keeprolling

When I'm depressed I have a huge problem with attachment. I generally don't bother to hang out with people but when I force myself I very rarely have fun even if I put on a brave face and no one notices anything is wrong. Usually I'm alright during but then afterwards I'll head back and think to myself "well. That wasn't worth it." It's really difficult because I really like hanging out with my friends but when I'm depressed I feel like it isn't worth the effort. I find myself cancelling on people all the time.

until recently I was never able to make attachments with anyone, It would not matter if I was depressed or not.

I can relate to canceling. I used to do that all the time. I stopped because I relised I had to many relationships. So I cut back.

[Rose76]

Thanks, zinco, for the link. It talks about MDD being a progressive disease, with depression actually damaging the brain, if I read that right. I am discouraged to read this, but I'm always looking to know the truth.

Originally Posted by Alone & confused

Have any of you heard anyone say that depression is anger turned inward? I don't remember where I heard that, but it just came to my mind & I am curious of anyone thinks there's any truth to it? I sometimes think that may be the case with me, as I am Always mad & disappointed in myself for not living up to my own expectations. Having said that, now I'm wondering if my "manic" episodes are nothing more than a build up of the depression exploding into a fit of rage because I get so tired of feeling so powerless against my problems?

I think it should be "anger turned inward can result in depression". I think this may be more true in women. It is a form of shame. However I also think intense racism is a possible result too. In the book Sophie's father turned against his own country in order to fit in with the nazis. He was also a very hateful towards Sophie however it was clear to me, anyway, that his rage was really directed at himself. This resulted in the shame that influenced every decision afterwards. It is very similar to my own father who is not intensely racist but carries some of the same traits. None of this is clear in the movie.

Originally Posted by Rose76

Thanks, zinco, for the link. It talks about MDD being a progressive disease, with depression actually damaging the brain, if I read that right. I am discouraged to read this, but I'm always looking to know the truth.

I am not completely buying this article. I am sure everything is factual, it is presentation that bothers me. Here is the disclosure:

"Vladimir Maletic has served on the Speaker’s Bureau or has been a consultant for Eli Lilly and Company and Cephalon. He did not receive any financial compensation for his work on this manuscript. His co-authors are each employees and/or shareholders of Eli Lilly and Company."

There is really only the mention of a comprehensive treatment plan and heavy emphasis on AD's as a lifetime treatment. As suggested this is going into the field of Neuro plasticity. Much research is needed but it is known that ongoing exercise and mindful practices change your brain in positive ways. So if MDD effects your brain similarly then would it stand to reason you could "grow" through natural means?

The particular issue with this article is an AD's side effects can affect your ability to concentrate among other things. Can this not be detrimental and potentially make you dependent on the AD? It is known also that all psychotropic drugs affect people cognitively. And also that coming off an AD can be the cause of a rebound. They can tell based on the type of symptoms you experience between the first one an subsequently.

[recentdiscovery]

Originally Posted by keeprolling

When I'm depressed I have a huge problem with attachment. I generally don't bother to hang out with people but when I force myself I very rarely have fun even if I put on a brave face and no one notices anything is wrong. Usually I'm alright during but then afterwards I'll head back and think to myself "well. That wasn't worth it." It's really difficult because I really like hanging out with my friends but when I'm depressed I feel like it isn't worth the effort. I find myself cancelling on people all the time.

This is me to a T. I neglected so many relationships I feel terrible about it.

I shouldn't judge so harshly though and i'm trying to make amends.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by Michanne

I am not completely buying this article. I am sure everything is factual, it is presentation that bothers me. Here is the disclosure:

"Vladimir Maletic has served on the Speaker’s Bureau or has been a consultant for Eli Lilly and Company and Cephalon. He did not receive any financial compensation for his work on this manuscript. His co-authors are each employees and/or shareholders of Eli Lilly and Company."

There is really only the mention of a comprehensive treatment plan and heavy emphasis on AD's as a lifetime treatment. As suggested this is going into the field of Neuro plasticity. Much research is needed but it is known that ongoing exercise and mindful practices change your brain in positive ways. So if MDD effects your brain similarly then would it stand to reason you could "grow" through natural means?

The particular issue with this article is an AD's side effects can affect your ability to concentrate among other things. Can this not be detrimental and potentially make you dependent on the AD? It is known also that all psychotropic drugs affect people cognitively. And also that coming off an AD can be the cause of a rebound. They can tell based on the type of symptoms you experience between the first one an subsequently.

I put a certain amount of faith in it because it is published by NIMH. Certainly AD's affect the whole body. I have been on everyone and have never had much success with them. To me it was validating because I believe in my case it is genetic and biological in nature and it is not because i am just a lazy slob. I do agree with you that is works both ways. Meditation, exercise, therapy, social activity to have profound influences on the mind as well. The article didn't mention much about these. Much more research needs to be done. The newer brain imaging studies are more interesting than the chemical imbalance theories the drug companies spout.