What is depression? Seriouly

I had three bad relationships in a row, I was at rock bottom, the only way I could think of protecting myself from another bad relationship was to give up on them all together. I've stayed single ever since (20+ years). Being lonely sucks, just as bad as a toxic relationship would. The difference is that it is my choice and where I choose to deceive myself that I stay in control.

When I'm in a good frame of mind (people tell me that I'm not always depressed), I enjoy the freedom of being only accountable to myself. When I'm in a so-so state, I console myself by spending a little time fantasising about the man of my dreams who I will meet sometime soon. When I'm depressed, I am consumed by loathing, I bitterly regret the huge compromise I have made to protect myself and I am heartbroken, not for the loves of the past, but for the love I will never know.

To me depression is a punishment, something that I have because I am inadequate, something that is there because I am immature and emotionally stunted, something that I have because I am too weak to embrace life and just get on with living, something that I have to justify my failings, to excuse myself for being abnormal. As well as being a punishment, depression is a manisfestation of all the bad within me, it is the toxic waste from a life spent selfishly, concerned only for myself and indifferent to the needs of others.

http://www.healthline.com/health/irr...otonin-effects

Interesting article on serotonin in the gut.

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http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-second-brain/

"The second brain informs our state of mind in other more obscure ways, as well. "A big part of our emotions are probably influenced by the nerves in our gut," Mayer says. Butterflies in the stomach—signaling in the gut as part of our physiological stress response, Gershon says—is but one example. Although gastrointestinal (GI) turmoil can sour one's moods, everyday emotional well-being may rely on messages from the brain below to the brain above. For example, electrical stimulation of the vagus nerve—a useful treatment for depression—may mimic these signals, Gershon says.

Given the two brains' commonalities, other depression treatments that target the mind can unintentionally impact the gut. The enteric nervous system uses more than 30 neurotransmitters, just like the brain, and in fact 95 percent of the body's serotonin is found in the bowels. Because antidepressant medications called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) increase serotonin levels, it's little wonder that meds meant to cause chemical changes in the mind often provoke GI issues as a side effect. Irritable bowel syndrome—which afflicts more than two million Americans—also arises in part from too much serotonin in our entrails, and could perhaps be regarded as a "mental illness" of the second brain."

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http://candacepert.com/

Molecules of emotion by Candace Pert was the book I couldn't remember. It was written quite some time ago now.

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Which is my point. Why are we guinea pigs... Still? Any new ads are not changing that much. There's a ton of research in progress or practice that is not invasive yet these drugs which are are still being pushed on us.

And then there is this gene testing I've been looking into that theoretically helps determine the most likely class of drug yet doctors are guessing by the seat of their pants? The test I am talking about has been in use for pain meds for several years. It is not invasive. Why would they not put more effort into Perfecting that. I mean... If there is a chance a noninvasive saliva test could reduce the chance of trying drug after drug while you suffer... Wouldn't you want it? No I think the main reason we are still "guinea pigs" is because it's good for business.

I can't recall the name of the test but I posted about it in the rx forum.

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Interesting. I have always believed in the mind body connection. I guess I am an east integrated with west guy. Both philosophies and approaches have much to offer. I think the west is embracing it more and more. UCLA is a good source. You have inspired me to do some more reading. There is much to learn and hopefully more proven methods of treatment. I think of mindfulness as staying in the moment. Staying in the nanosecond opens new worlds. My depression is very stubborn and I lose the will to take positives actions to help it.

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My understanding is that gene screening and custom therapies is still a ways off but is coming. I don't think pdocs have it in their tool kit. Hospitals and universities are doing a lot of research. Bringing it to market with big pharmas business model is hard to say. I to am sickened by all the ads I see during the news. I have read they are changing their research models to be more collaborative with hospitals and universities. New therapies don't have to come from big pharma. Universities can and do patent and find investors.

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No, my pa has been using the tests. There are now two places in my area that do it. The second opened recently. I have not pursued it due cost. But I will be able to afford it soon. ( ) She even thought some plans would pay for part of it but I am dubious about that. It isn't like those mail in ones. She forgot to send the info so I need to follow up. The more she uses it the more impressed she is.

I don't have any tv with ads so regretfully I miss them the pioneers I have read don't get money from pharma. They also don't live in the US. Dr Breggin came up with two types of patient centric models that totally make sense. I see some cities have hospitals that are starting to pick up forms of them. Btw, the cities with hospitals using these types of models have lower insurance premiums because they can negotiate lower rates. However they seem to need to change doctor incentive models to salary. It isn't just our bodies that are wholistic

Universities aren't quite at the point they aren't dependent on big pharma money. But there is more visibility to researchers who take pharma money so there is more incentive to avoid it if they care about impartiality in their reputation.

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Here is dr breggin's site. http://www.breggin.com/

Some people get all defensive and scared because he is anti pharma but he has done so much more then that. It's a shame that is all they can see.

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I saw you post in the meds section. I will check it all out tomorrow.

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Thanks, Michanne, for link to Dr. Breggin's site. I have always been skeptical of the "biomedical model." I think there is too much blind acceptance of it.

I would agree that psychiatric meds are way over prescribed and that people are to easily labeled. GP's should not be allowed to prescribe psychoactive drugs, they hand them out like candy. Kids are way to easily labeled ADHD and put on meds. There are big problems.

However his approach to therapy does not match my experience. Also my experience with meds does not match what he says. I have been on and off many meds and have not experienced the withdrawal symptoms everyone talks about. Once with paxil I had flu like symptoms for a couple weeks. I have come off effexor very quickly many times with no withdrawal. I am not saying those problems so not exist but just not in my experience. He seems to largely describe mental illness as all situational. I do not believe in my case it is. I am convinced that in my case it is genetic and biological.

My experience with empathatic therapy did not solve my depression. I spent 10 years going to three AA meetings a week. One Alanon meeting a week. One on one counseling. Group dual diagnosis therapy. Adult Children of Alcoholics. Two years of really practicing the Course in Miracles. I have worked the steps with a sponsor and on my own over and over. I have applied the steps to my depression. Read every self help book I could get my hands on including work books. Took up meditation and practice it regularly. Did alot of CBT which I still practice on my own. Do alot of journaling. All this has helped my life in many ways. My depression is not so much a thinking disease but a physical one. I do not feel sad. My self esteem is not low unless I am severely depressed then my thinking gets whacked. Feeling and thinking wise I just get numb. My biggest symptoms are no energy no motivation and sleep all the time.
The thing is during all this time I still went into severe depressions three times a year like clock work. During all this I was moderately to mildly depressed as I have been my whole life. I can function when mildly or moderately depressed but it is always forcing it and gets old.
It seems to me the consensus is that meds with therapy is the best approach. I believe there are many different causes for depression and that biology and genetics play a huge role for many people. We are back to what therapies or combinations will work for us. My experience is very discouraging as far as what has worked for it. It has gotten worse. I lost my last job due to missing to much work due to depression. It was not losing the job that caused depression it was depression that caused the job loss. I was forcing myself to go to work for four months and my performance was slowly declining and people started to notice. It finally got severe enough that i just could not make it to work.

I am just relating my own experience. One person among many. I am very open minded and always willing to learn and will read more of his articles.

Yes, I think most studies conclude a combo of meds and therapies but for many people the side effects are too intolerable. Or they just don't work.

When you try all those different programs I don't see it as a loss. With those you most likely have gained some knowledge from them or you wouldn't stay for two years (unless you are brainwashed). I think it is fine to move on when you have gotten what you can from those modalities. I guess you are kind of saying this.

Even if you feel it is most successfully controlled artificially I think there is lots Breggin can offer. I don't shy away from people I don't completely agree with if they have a good body of work. I make that distinction because there are a ton of self help books by people with no or limit credentials. My t told me something that makes sense about them. They are limited because most of it has to be based on the writer's personal experience or observation. They don't have the benefit of years of education and research and experience So then they tend to be formulaic and they don't work for everyone in the target audience.

I like people like Breggin and Brenė brown and Whitaker, for example, because they are using some sort of dense expertise to teach. Breggin is a practicing dr, researcher and activist. Brown is a 20 year shame researcher (phd). Whitaker who concentrates on history and social impacts (not treatment or practice) is a long time accomplished investigative reporter. One might not agree with everything but I think you can't NOT learn something different from all of them. Assuming you have a healthy open and critical mind

Btw, ingrained mh professionals are the most defensive and closed minded about these people. They won't even look at the website. I've been ostracized a few times about this. Very sad IMO. Luckily I have found two who are willing to read them.

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No I don't see it as a loss either. I gained much from all of those. Mainly I have stayed clean and sober for 18 years. I could not have done this without AA. I don't feel brainwashed at all by it. Some feel it is a cult and brainwashes you. That is far from the truth. It is a cult in the sense it has its own culture as many groups do. I should still be going to help the next guy that comes in the door and it would be good for me.

My point was just that all of that didn't help the depression.
I will read further on the people you suggest. Today my mood took a big nose dive and I can hardly concentrate. I was doing much better.

Bummer. Hope you feel better. When you feel up to it definitely check that other thread. I got more info. I really think you would be an excellent candidate for it.

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Or maybe by brainwashed you were referring to course in miracles. It is a pretty out there book. To me it was a method of retraining your thinking to focus on love and forgiveness and not fear and ego.
I have read many "new age" spiritual books. And a pretty wide variety of philosophy and religion. I like to kid that I am a buddist catholic.
I will hit you up for that other thread and info you think I might like to read.

Lol. My brother and I were raised catholic. Not practicing but my brother married a Buddhist. They had a Buddhist Christian wedding.

When I mentioned brain washing I wasn't thinking of anything in particular. I even forgot aa was accused of it. I've read they work as a habit-reward system. The "reward" is connection with other members which is often what motivates people to drink initially... The social aspect.

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The psychiatric community has different theories about how 12 step programs work. Talk therapy etc. they don't want to acknowledge the spiritual aspect of it.
The main tenant is admitting you are powerless over your addiction. That you simply cannot quit under your own power. Therefore you need a power greater than yourself. Most people in AA call this god. Even the steps call it god. Of course there are social reward aspects to it. If you are an athiest you could say that the group as a whole working toward a goal is a power greater than yourself. Also the steps are about cleaning up the wreckage of your past. Dealing with past issues making amends to those you wronged. Then helping others to do the same. All and all just a very good philosophy on living.

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