The stupidest thing I've ever heard probably

That I will totally agree, that is another one of those stupid modern day quotes, that "permanent solution to a temporary problem", as we who have/had depression know it's as permanent as it gets - even if you heal, it changes you forever. You don't get restored to your former self with no trace of what happened, you are scarred forever.

But, I still have to disagree with you though. I still feel like you are only considering how others will be affected if you did it. What about you? Don't you need consideration too?

What is selfishness truly? Define it for me.

To me selfishness is putting your needs and feelings ahead of the needs and feelings of others. So when you die someone has to pay for your funeral. Selfish. People that care about you will blame themselves. Selfish. Someone will be scarred for life by finding you. Selfish. If you set it up so a stranger finds you someone still has to ID you and live with that memory. Selfish.

Now ask me if I think being selfish is a bad thing I think being selfish is a needed trait otherwise we'd never do anything for ourselves. It's why I believe it's one of the most selfish things a person can do but I don't think it's wrong.

OK, then by your own definition, I would say living a depressed life, sad, unhappy and unfulfilled, depriving your loved ones and others of the happy version of you and replacing that with someone which is a shell of who you were and can be is selfish too. They have to live with that pain everyday to see you suffer that way. Do you think the people who care about you are happy when you are not? You are saying they are not worthy to see you at your best? That stings for them.

Now, I know you're saying to yourself, but I'm not being unhappy or depressed so as to hurt my family or loved ones or friends, I'm that way because I'm depressed, there's something unwell going on with me - well, exactly my point. You're not doing it to hurt them.

You can't keep thinking for other people. You just saw in my example above that you are thinking one way for yourself and they are interpreting it totally differently and make it about how they feel. Every human will do that. They can't know how you are feeling, all they can feel and experience is what they feel.

If you want them to stop thinking that way, then stop trying to think about what they are thinking. That is the only thing here that is selfish - trying to think what other people are thinking. You can't, and you'll never be able to, and it is true selfishness to think you can.

I also don't think suicide is wrong, it's just so unnecessary, because as difficult as all this turmoil is, don't be impressed by it, it is all show and no go at the end of the day. One gram of happiness will far outweigh several tons of depression, always will. Think of a dark room. Even one little hole in the ceiling casts light in it and it is no longer dark.

Also, by what you're saying then is that people who die normally (still a funeral, someone is still scarred finding you) and in car accidents (still have to ID the body, others are blamed, your family blames themselves and says "Oh, if only they didn't go to the store that day to go buy me something, they wouldn't have been in the car.") are also selfish.

Now, the trick is to be extremely selfish and then go and get help so you can be happy again.

Exactly, well said.

If people say suicide is selfish, then so too is the other extreme - going to a therapist and taking medication to get help.

Both are a form of relief from the dread. Wanting to end the dread is the real need, the real relief. Suicide is but one way of doing that, but it doesn't have to be the only way. That I will agree. I could've did it too, but something in my mind said to me, there must be another way.

i agree. suicide is in no way selfish.

when you are at the point of suicide - you are at rock bottom. you are ill and you truly believe that your life is a burden and the people who care about you would be much better off without you.

suicide is desperately sad. it is heartbreaking and lonely and confusing - but the one thing it is NOT is selfish.

Some people are so riddled with pain and sadness, and for so long that nothing can help get them out of it. Some of these people do not want to die, but, death is the only way to relieve themselves of the misery. If I were to follow through with my "plans," I hope people will celebrate the fact that I am finally free from living in this horror show called life.

That's the rub of it no one really knows how unhappy I am. Haven't tried to off myself since i was a teen so they think it's all in the past. I wear my pain on the inside so no one else has to see it. I know after years of therapy and medication there is no happiness for me. Some meds help a little when I can afford to get them but that's rare.

I've been miserable for 31 years. At this point I don't think I'd know how to be anything else but as long as I can fake a smile and no one else sees who cares?

You're exactly right by asking "Who cares?" That's what I mean, you are the only one who still cares about you, out of everyone in society, others don't.

That's what I meant when I started this thread. Nobody will care, and when you do something for yourself one day to try and alleviate the pain, they turn around and accuse you of being selfish. They are the selfish ones because they don't give a damn about anyone else and only care about their own happiness. When they call you selfish after you do something to alleviate the dread, are they saying you don't deserve happiness and they do? That seems pretty selfish to me. In other words happiness is for them but not for you. Well, they need a wake-up call, because they don't own and distribute happiness, it's there for anyone to have indiscriminately, not just some people.

It's very possible that therapy and meds don't work. If it works for others, it doesn't mean it'll work for you.

I don't know what it is that would make you happy again, well, even all of us happy again, but we need to find it, whatever it is. It seems it takes time, and just when it looks like you're on the right track, it's takes some more time. But, that's the thing, that's how cynical these things are. It's like you say, 31 years of dread you have been suffering, and then in year 32, suddenly it changes. Maybe this will happen for you, I don't know. But, you got to be here to know if it was going to happen or not.

Hang in there. Let's try and find the change to make our lives happy again.

actually I'm the only one that doesn't care about me. If any one of my friends or family knew how I felt I'd be in a hospital again so fast my head would spin. I don't care about me but I care about them so I don't try anything anymore.

People don't care about themselves because they have been forced to believe that it's wrong when you do, that it's selfish and all the rest.

It is that which drives the person towards the suicide in the first place, because it instills a feeling of worthlessness, etc. and that you are not worth being cared about.

Even though others care about you, only you can care about yourself in a way that is sufficient enough for you to be totally satisfied.

It's like taking a thirsty man to a puddle of water, but you can't make him drink, he must want to drink, also you can't drink for him. He has to want to drink for himself otherwise he will suffer thirst and eventually die of thirst. But, when the man is thirsty, and he bends down to drink, people then can't turn around and call him selfish for using the water.

People will always accuse. If he drinks, they call him selfish because he uses the water, if he doesn't drink and dies, they call him selfish because he has removed his presence from them. With that in mind then, he is the only one who can do something for himself because the others just stand and accuse at best.

very true. good analogy.

I've often felt the same way. On the flip side, when a friends has made 2 attempts since I known him, that has left me scared and angry.

Sorry to be coming into this discussion rather late-thanks for the thread lots of good comments & insight here. I've heard many "normal" folks say this (including family members) but the last time I heard it was in a depression support group a few months ago-I was surprised when someone brought it up & then when 7 or 8 others agreed I was super surprised. I think sometimes it's like a knee jerk response to the shock & trauma-but it was the first time I had heard it come from others dealing with depression. I think it shows the amount of misunderstanding & lack of knowledge about depression even amongst some that suffer from it.