[OneInBillions]

Tonight I was sitting here brooding, considering all my options, and I thought of something that I wanted to share with you all. Maybe I shouldn't; feel free to berate me and hate me as you like -- you have that right. For all I know this thread will just get moved into the damned Teens section again because I sound less than half my age. Maybe this is just a rant. Whatever.

I don't understand those people who don't understand why anyone would want to commit suicide.

Do you feel me on this? Do you know where I'm coming from?

We hear about them all the time, right? Those people who say that suicide is never an option, who get so baffled and hurt after someone they know does it. They blame it all on depression, or drugs, or alcohol. Nevermind the actual reasons behind it. And then we have the people who get morally outraged at the idea of anyone taking their own life, like our lives all belong to their almighty god and their god alone and damn anyone who thinks differently! Nevermind the obvious fact that their god does nothing to stop it! Or the ****ing idiots who preach that we'll never be tested beyond what we can bear in our lives, hah!

There are so many initiatives these days to "prevent" suicide, hotlines and websites and forums, and I'm sick of running into them every time I feel like I might just do it and am trying to talk myself out of it yet again. Their efforts only frustrate me. People like that are so smug in their righteous fury, when nobody even bothered to notice that the person in question was struggling in the first place. Too many people just slip through the cracks, without access to sufficient mental healthcare or even one ****ing friend to talk to, to confess to, to be genuine with! No wonder this damn country is in a crisis with shootings every other week! How is it that everyone can blame GUN CONTROL when the real issue is clearly MENTAL HEALTH?!

People like that must have it good. They must never get to this terrible, dark, out-of-breath, heart-twisting, tear-provoking, panicky point where it feels like there just aren't any other viable options left. How lucky are they? What they don't seem capable of understanding is that some of us actually hit a brick wall in this life. That some of us actually struggle with things so bad that we'd really be better off dead.

I've also been wondering lately why we don't have some kind of government-run program for voluntary suicide. Why isn't there some government building I can walk into, confess all my deepest darkest secrets and the desire to end them all, and be immediately and summarily executed? Why all the money and time and effort spent to "save" people who might just not be worth saving?! But they have to have the bureaucrats and the red tape. They have to convince themselves that every life is worth living -- even when you haven't walked in that person's shoes or dealt with those issues or felt that kind of pain. It's just so... backwards.

[francisR]

hi Oneinbillions

I do believe that like myself a lot of depressed people have thought about suicide. However, for me with a strong religious belief it is never an option. It simply destroys the lives of the loved ones who never recover from the bad feelings.

Personally I believe what an author wrote that people do this to get rid of the pain. But with good medication and therapy to manage symptoms. Recovery from depression is possible. As is building a worthwhile life.

People do need a good reason to go on. That is a consuming passion to give meaning to life, such as a charitable cause, or reconnection with something that fired them up in earlier times.
I don't believe that any government would ever set up a department to simply euthanize people who want that because they are depressed. The question is would you like to have a good life worth living? To get that you need the therapy and medication to bring depression. Under control so that you can build such a life.

In the US there is Nami the organization for the mentally ill that run peer to peer support groups. Perhaps you would like to Google that contact them to find out what services they run in your area. I really hope and pray everything does get better for you. Take care. God bless and best wishes from your friend Francis

[notthisagain]

I can understand why someoone would want to sui because I have ideations myself. What I do to protect myself is eliminate things from my house that I would potentially use. For example, I refuse to own a gun. Years ago, I read this book all about sui and ironically that kept me from doing it because it mentions all of the things that can go wrong. When I think about it, I don't want to experience any more pain than I already have, so I don't do it. For me, and this is only my opinion, is that people consider sui when the amount of pain and struggle exceeds their coping resources. And yes, those who don't understand are lucky that they don't. Depression sucks.

Good posting.

I don't understand those people who don't understand why anyone would want to commit suicide.

Can you remember a time in your life before you ever thought of it as an option? I can, and I can also remember the first time I ever did think of it as a possibility. Part of me was so surprised. It was like my brain had taken a turning down a new and not welcome side road.

I have talked to other people about this or have had them bring up the subject with me. People have told me that they never, ever had a single thought about the possibility of suicide until they suffered a severe episode of depression. One person who told me this said she was in her 50s when this happened.

I think that there always has to be a first time when this makes sense and seems reasonable to us. Some people haven't reached that point yet in their lives. Others never will.

Some people have the empathy or intellectual ability to realize that other people can feel this way even if they don't. Others, as we see so often, don't have this ability, or don't have it yet.

Attitude toward suicide is generally considered to be part of a culture's values. There have been a few cultures in history that have considered suicide to be acceptable, but most cultures do not accept it, or accept it only for very specific situations. The last is the case in the US, so that's why I wouldn't be expecting any government-run centers for assisted suicide to be opening any time soon.

As far as conservative religious ideas about suicide go, I find those annoying and frustrating as well. I'm a Christian, but a member of a more liberal denomination. I used to belong to a more conservative one but left because my thinking changed.

Too many people just slip through the cracks, without access to sufficient mental healthcare or even one ****ing friend to talk to, to confess to, to be genuine with!

That is so true. I think that more people than you'd think realize this, but don't know what to do about it.

I just started reading a book last night that a friend recommended. I didn't really know what it was going to be about. It's called Daring Greatly by Brené Brown, a US sociology researcher and author. Her work is pretty famous in the US, but I had never heard of her until recently.

What I was reading last night was talking a lot about what has happened to our culture in the US in recent times (last 15 years or so) that makes it possible for people to end up so isolated and with no one to be genuine with. She views it as something going on all over our country.

In spite of spending probably 2/3 of the last 25 years thinking about suicide, I'm currently in a place where I think my brain is not healthy when it tells me I should kill myself. This viewpoint may have come somewhat from going through multiple episodes of severe depressions and always (so far) coming out of them and wanting to live. I acknowledge that my current viewpoint may be a time-dependent one, but it's what I believe right now.

I still completely understand and remember what it feels like to think that suicide is the most reasonable choice. Maybe once you've ever been in that place, you can't forget what it feels like.

Here's where the boilerplate message about seeking meds and therapy goes. (I do think they help.) Hugs.

[ManOfConstantSorrow]

I can walk into, confess all my deepest darkest secrets and the desire to end them all, and be immediately and summarily executed? We used to execute lots of people in Britain (often the wrong ones) but only for the very worst crimes, murder, treason in time of war, double parking, are you certain you have done something so awful you should be killed? It seems a little improbable.

[vital]

Hi OneInBillions,

I wouldn't presume to advise you, but I thought you might like this:

- vital

[OneInBillions]

Originally Posted by francisR

I do believe that like myself a lot of depressed people have thought about suicide. However, for me with a strong religious belief it is never an option. It simply destroys the lives of the loved ones who never recover from the bad feelings.

Not to be mean or rude but religion has done far more harm than good in my life. In fact I believe that my anxiety and depression are in a large part due to my upbringing in a strict, fundamentalist religion where I had to hide my disbelief and lie for decades just to get by. Whenever someone tells me to go find Jesus or find God I seriously feel like punching them. Again no offense to you, it's just how I feel.

Originally Posted by notthisagain

I can understand why someoone would want to sui because I have ideations myself. What I do to protect myself is eliminate things from my house that I would potentially use. For example, I refuse to own a gun.

This is also the sole reason why I don't own a gun. Personally I believe in the right to bear arms and think that having a gun is a great way to defend yourself in these crazy times. But I can't trust myself with one. It's frustrating.

Originally Posted by jo_thorne

Can you remember a time in your life before you ever thought of it as an option?

Yeah, my childhood was awesome. I was so carefree, sheltered and loved. It wasn't perfect but it was good. Then I hit puberty and everything went to ****. I was bullied to the brink of suicide, my emotional growth was stunted and I gradually isolated myself until I had no friends left. It's been almost two decades since then and I'm sick of having to talk myself OUT of suicide every few months. I just want to get it over with already; my life isn't getting any better.

Originally Posted by jo_thorne

Here's where the boilerplate message about seeking meds and therapy goes. (I do think they help.) Hugs.

Unfortunately meds didn't do much for me, and therapy didn't work because I can't bring up my main concern, because it's something that nobody can know about. I need it to be a secret that I take to my grave. The plain fact is that I'm a broken person. I don't believe I can be "fixed" or "cured" at this point; it's been too long.

Originally Posted by ManOfConstantSorrow

We used to execute lots of people in Britain (often the wrong ones) but only for the very worst crimes, murder, treason in time of war, double parking, are you certain you have done something so awful you should be killed? It seems a little improbable.

Yes.

[lavendersage]

I'm not sure if wanting to die is the "main concern" that you refer to not being able to bring up in therapy or if, in fact, it's something else.

If it IS something else (other than wanting to die) that's "something that nobody can know about"....well, that's going to make getting help hard. A therapist can only help with as much as you're willing to divulge. If you're going to hold back, it's not going to be as effective as being totally open and up-front.

When I read your post, what popped in to my mind was something I read/heard once: "You're only as sick as your secrets."

I don't think you're too far gone. I hope you can find your way out of the abyss.

[vonmoxie]

There's this old 70s movie "The End" with Burt Reynolds that I caught on cable not long ago .. It's a dark comedy about a guy who at first wants to commit sui, and a movie that could probably never get funded today even though it's certainly not pro-sui and actually opens up some good dialogue. What struck me about it though was how differently the information was received when he told friends he was thinking about it .. without condemnation, or even misgivings about his sanity. Today's climate around that topic is so highly charged that I can hardly think of a friend in my own life right now that I could talk to about having experienced even the most non-essential ideation, for fear of them never looking at me the same way.

So yeah, I don't understand those people either, because whatever laws are in place at any given time I just don't see what good can come of being unempathetic to a thought pattern that is as common as ideation. With so many more ways to communicate these days it seems strange that it's even harder to do so, but I'm of the opinion that it is.

I wish you soon solace.

[OneInBillions]

Originally Posted by lavendersage

I'm not sure if wanting to die is the "main concern" that you refer to not being able to bring up in therapy or if, in fact, it's something else.

If it IS something else (other than wanting to die) that's "something that nobody can know about"....well, that's going to make getting help hard. A therapist can only help with as much as you're willing to divulge. If you're going to hold back, it's not going to be as effective as being totally open and up-front.

When I read your post, what popped in to my mind was something I read/heard once: "You're only as sick as your secrets."

I don't think you're too far gone. I hope you can find your way out of the abyss.

This is precisely why therapy DIDN'T work for me. I told my therapist about wanting to kill myself -- of course I did, I'm suffering from major depressive disorder; it was one of the complaints I presented to my GP to be referred to a psychiatrist. Anyway I always had to hold back in therapy, even when I was really distressed. It sucks but it is the way it is and I can't change it.

Suicide is NOT just about depression. Yes that may be a contributing factor but there are always REASONS that people don't want to even consider. Whether you like it or not there are simply people who deserve to die.

[PostHuman]

Originally Posted by vital

Discard the ego. Live in the moment. Try to have an unconditional acceptance of life and what it brings.

Words of wisdom that you can hear or read from Eckhart Tolle, Deepak Chopra, Wayne Dyer and several other people that are involved in the self-help / spirituality business.

I agree with everything that Tolle said, but I would have preferred if he had the courage to also say that suicide may be a viable option for some people. But I wouldn’t expect it from someone like him. Condoning suicide in some circumstances would probably hurt his books sales. Existence is suffering, and the suffering is more suitable for some than others.

[PostHuman]

OneInBillions, maybe you can find some solace in the fact that as our societies are becoming more secular and progressive, the idea of assisted suicide services for people with terminal and mental illnesses is slowly becoming more socially acceptable. The idea of having the legal rights to a peaceful death is more socially acceptable in countries like the Netherlands and Switzerland, but changes are slowly starting to happen in Canada, the US, and many other locations. Hopefully states like Oregon, Washington, and Vermont will expand their physician assisted suicide laws in the near future, and allow some people with depression to end their lives peacefully. I also think the service should be available in prisons. Especially in states with the death penalty.

[francisR]

Hi. Oneinbillions

I'm sorry that therapy did not work for you. That could be down to several reasons. Giving all of the info to the therapist is essential so that he can give you the right coping strategies. Then there is the question of whether the therapy was the appropriate one for you. You could always consider trying another therapist doing CBT, which is very good. Or acceptance and commitment therapy that I use. Take care. I hope and pray everything does get better for you in the future. God bless and best wishes from your friend Francis

[francisR]

Hi. Oneinbillions

This does happen to people when they in fact have religion shoved down their throats, having to keep a whole lot of rules. This is not what true religion is about it is about love, God loving us, and us loving him back. I have got to say that the fact that God does not allow suicide was the only thing for years that kept me going on because there was no juice in life. And I have always found religion a source of great strength and trying to manage depression. Take care. God bless and best wishes from your friend Francis

[OneInBillions]

Originally Posted by francisR

I have got to say that the fact that God does not allow suicide was the only thing for years that kept me going on because there was no juice in life. And I have always found religion a source of great strength and trying to manage depression.

I find this amusing because I am the EXACT opposite. If I actually believed in a god or an afterlife, and especially in something like reincarnation or rebirth, I would kill myself immediately. Screw what god wants and bring on hell; I know it's the only place I'd go. If I'm gonna go there eventually and it truly is "eternal" then just take me there right now; the rest of my life doesn't matter at all on such a grand scale. I'd even willingly hand my "soul" to the devil; I just don't care anymore. If there is a god, then I hate him passionately. That's what religion did to me.

But then atheism saved my life. I finally decided that, since there is simply not enough evidence for a god or an afterlife or anything else, the most likely scenario upon death is simply oblivion. Our "sense of self" ceases to exist when the brain dies, and that's it. It's not a "sleep" or anything like that -- it's simply the end of everything we are, were and ever could be. All of our feelings, thoughts and potential, gone in an instant. Then I realized that this is the only chance I get; once my life is over, there is no doing it over and there is no continuation. So while death would take away the pain of loneliness and depression and all the other bad things, it would also take away all the good things -- forever! No more good days, no more pleasurable feelings, no more BEING! And that train of thought has helped me tremendously. I may have gotten a raw deal -- due to sheer chance, not "luck" or "karma" or a "plan" or anything dumb like that; nature isn't good or evil, it just IS -- but I can still experience fleeting moments of joy or feelings of pleasure here and there. I can still LIVE, here and now!