Mad in america

hello depressed ones------------any comments about side effects of anti-depressants...

oh fuzzy you are good...we are all in this together....we are not alone...we are all suffering with all the expectations....

Along those lines, a short video that gets to the heart of it. BTW, this guy (Gabor Mate MD) is one of the very few I've come across who really sees what is going on in a deep way. I wish everyone could hear he what he has to say:



I'm all for investigating biological issues (toxicity, inflammation, leaky gut, diet, etc) but really seems that mental health issues are primarily about relationships -- with the self, with others, with society, with nature.

I personally haven't seen or experienced that. That is I do not know of anyone beating the drum for drugs and I do not know of people excluding anything else. I can't find evidence of that. I would always want to know the who, what, when and why; in other words the SPECIFIC detailed evidence of "exclusion of everything else". Mostly the people within the industry such as academics and researchers as well as those in practice that I know of are concerned with scientific evidence. They want to know if something works before passing any judgment.

In my case nothing much other than pharmaceuticals has made any difference and that is not from trying alternatives. Given that the evidence for anything much that we are concerned with on this forum is either non existent or not all that good, in my opinion, the most important thing is what works for you.

If and when you yourself find any of the approaches you mentioned above resolves your depression and you stop hurting then that is terrific. But my statements here about what worked for me does not mean I 'beat the drum' of drugs.

I know quite a few do get side effects. I am fortunate not to have experienced much at all and when I have had side effects they tended to subside fairly quickly.

mrn----what is your understanding of the black box warning for anti-depressants...

Message received. And with that I am outta here...

wait a minute bud.....what do you have to say about the black box warning for anti-depressants...the FDA put that there...

In my part of the world we have a pamphlet that outlines the prescription medication including side effects. The side effects are listed according to how common it is for people to experience them. I don't know about the rest of the globe.

What YOU have experienced personally is not the reality facing the larger Western world. Because you have not found "evidence" of what many of the educated and published speak of must mean you are very isolated in New Zealand. Or you are refusing to look. Or, perhaps both.

Great for you and many, many others (myself included) who benefit from pharmaceuticals for their depression and myriad other issues. Many, many do not receive any benefit at all. And many, many are actually harmed. So, you are missing a much larger point.

And, really, if those pharmaceuticals worked sooooo well for you and me, we wouldn't have any reason to be on this site, would we? You may be fine with this vastly sub-par status quo, but I am not. Nor is Budfox or Little Turtle. The status quo is not good enough! The industry is NOT altruistic nor science-bound, it is by-and-large failing humanity, and it is profiting in doing so. How can you stand it?!?! Is this the best you want for yourself? For your friends and family? For the others in this PC Community? For generations of traumatized children who as adults will be failing to thrive as they should be??

Interesting video - thanks for providing. I'll check out more of his talks. Western society certainly doesn't help matters.

A book I ordered just arrived - 'Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself: How to Lose Your Mind and Create a New One' by Dr. Joe Dispenza. Back cover states "You are not doomed by your genes and hardwired do to be a certain way . . . A new science is emerging that empowers all human beings to create the reality they choose. Dr. Joe combines the fields of quantum physics, neuroscience, brain chemistry, biology,and genetics . . . Dr.Joe demystifies ancient understandings and bridges the gap between science and spirituality." Gabor Mate MD and he could be coffee buddies.

Perfect example of ad hominem and a straw man!

Maybe people like myself and mrnobody have other reasons for being on this site.

I just read his book. I think the message I got is that the patient needs to be their own advocate, and not just take whatever is given to them. I also just finished reading Talking Back to Prozac, which was written 20 years ago. People were not being warned about the side effects. It's good, I think, to hear all sides, so one can make educated decisions about their mental health care.

i am not hearing anything about the black box warning for anti-depressants...
this is a very important issue for all of us...

I am glad you brought this up. Most recently (August) my pdoc prescribed an anti-depressant. When I told her I had a very bad reaction years ago from an AD she said that the "new" drugs did not have the same kind of side effects as the older drugs. (This wasn't really true. I once again had a severe reaction and had to stop the AD after only 10 days.)

When I picked up the drug the pharmacist had me read a half-page warning for teenagers (I am not a teen. lol) - and that was it. No further black box warnings.

There were no other instructions or a side effects list given to me by the pdoc or pharmacist. I had a very bad allergic reaction to the drug. I complained to my pdoc that no one gave me a full explanation (either verbally or in writing) about side effects.

But I also take responsibility for the fact I did not strongly insist. I didn't insist on a print-out from the pharmacist. I took the drug because the pdoc said I should "trust her" but it turned out badly. As patients, we all need to more strongly advocate for ourselves. That is what reading the "Mad" book illustrated for me. I don't have any interest in the site because the book pretty much gave me the warning: stay informed. That's important.

In my case every time I have been put on an antidepressant I did read the pamphlet with all the side effects listed. I did not care about the side effects because compared to depression they looked relatively benign. Besides I was hoping the medications killed me. I spent every day ruminating about death and hoping I would not wake up to see another one so swallowing a pill was nothing to me.

I appreciate what you are saying. Did you share your feelings with your health care providers? I may have felt the same as you (apathetic) but I had a really severe reaction to the drug, and it actually kind of "woke me up" and started me on a holistic path to healing, which I am on to this day. Trying to heal naturally is not at all easy, and there are setbacks the same as with any other method of treatment. But I think my progress is about the same as psych drugs/therapy because I did it that way before-- and for me this natural way feels better. Eating right and exercising are not going to "cure" depression. Much more is needed. It is not an easy path and I would never, never recommend it over other treatment. I just think that the patient and the health care provider have to work together. Now I message my pdoc (my health care provider has a great message service) and she can message me back. This has really increased my sense of having good health care, and at the same time improving self-efficacy. It isn't good to stay in the state you described for very long. I hope you are getting help. All my best to you.

Ad hominem- yes, no doubt you would recognize that.

Straw man - nice try and very untrue. Not accepting the status quo Is the bais for this thread's initiation. Again, missing the point.

Other reasons - quite probable. Reading the same unvarying self-centered perspective from the same member on the same thread for the 100th time, and in the process reframing the issue to make it a this-or-that argument to be 'won' instead of engaging in various ideas, is going to result in someone pushing back on it.

There are articles in PC's main content that speaks to this issue. But, that must be just more evidence of 'straw man' practices . . .

Which book? Sorry, not sure if you're referring to Mad in America or Dispenza's?

I'm sorry, I meant Mad in America. I felt the author illustrated very extreme examples. I also reread Talking Back to Prozac which is a very old book, but it also tended to cite extreme examples. The main thing I took away from these two books is the importance of being an informed consumer. I don't feel the health care system promotes that. I brought all my herbs and supplements to my doctor to show her what I was taking for depression/anxiety. She kind of sniffed over the bottles and remarked that taking an AD would be much cheaper than expensive herbs from Whole Foods. I was feeling too vulnerable to challenged her in anyway but meekly. I want to add that my time spent on Psych Central has not only raised my awareness but also my confidence as a consumer. I have participated in many discussions here about psych drugs and therapy, and I finally opted to take the holistic healing route, which I outline on my profile page. I feel well supported by members in my choice. So for me Psych Central has helped me not only choose a path that is right for me, but to maintain it.

Actually even more straw man ... and by the way accusing someone of something you are guilty of is called hypocrisy. You add nothing to this thread by getting personal and attacking members posts. Quite disgraceful behaviour on a depression forum.

Incorrect.

I'm so glad you're on a good path. It's ironic that an Rx can indeed be much cheaper, as your doctor commented.

Fortunately, consumers have near immediate access to the Rx pamphlets by use of their smartphones. And WebMD.com is an excellent place to read about patients' experiences regarding efficacy and side effects. I hope people have the wherewithal to query these sources while in the exam room as their doctor is considerIng which drug(s) to prescribe.