Depressed due to turning 30 and still being single and a virgin

I came across this article:

Later-in-life virgins – ‘At my age, it becomes a red flag’

I think that the title says it all.

I am not sure what to think of this article, whether to feel depressed or just brush it off and keep trying like usual. Here are some quotes from the article that really had me thinking about this:

That is deflating to hear.

About the same guy:
So today's society regards virginity at 25+ as basically an STI. That is the extent to which people hate virgins?

I can relate. And this guy is only one year older than I am. Is this what is to become of my future?

You've achieved great insight and this will help you on your journey, Lundi. Feeling more comfortable with yourself, and not feeling like you have to hide anything or be perfect in every social situation, will help your positives shine more clearly. Putting too much pressure on yourself can too often increase the very same behaviors that you're worried about. I've been there too.

And I was 30 when I first had sex, so don't think it's impossible. I ended up thinking it would never happen either, but it did.

This whole issue with singleness and virginity has affected negatively my physical health as well. I have suffered weight loss in the past as well as stomach problems, plus now I have chronic hypertension that started in my mid-20s. The stress and self-hatred that I placed on myself destroyed my self-esteem. Just in the past two months, I tried to rectify all of this.

I still have a long way to go. I see evidence of virgins at my age, especially males, being cast aside as if they were sub-humans. I need to keep up my confidence, looking at all of my abilities that I have despite being in this state.

I have heard many times about how opportunities arise when one least expects it. I have a hard time believing it, due to the repeated past failures in my life. But then again, I suppose that many people who did get those opportunities did not expect it either.

Please know that not all women are cruel. You've had some awful experiences, Lundi, but it might be the people you are trying to spend time with. They all sound like over-the-top extroverts. People like that, in my experience, are completely judgemental and not at all understanding of difference. Lots of nerdy women, whether they're on the spectrum or not, also remain virgins into their 30s. We live in a culture that thinks extroversion and NT is the only acceptable way to be. That isn't at all true. Doing the party scene isn't going to help you meet someone who will accept you. You're beating yourself to a pulp for not doing well with people who aren't right for you anyway. If you have the economic means, and the interest, places like ComicCon or a Trek convention might be good places to start. Also check out meeting venues within your scientific fields, or join some local book clubs. If you have a support group for ASD near where you live, that might be a good place to make some friendships at the very least.

Also check out this site for self-compassion; it sure has helped me with my self-esteem problems, beating the snot out of myself for my actual and perceived shortcomings and loneliness.
Self-Compassion

Thanks for telling me about the women that are virgins. I never thought about that before. Like in the article, it said that only around 2% of all men in the UK are virgins past age 30, and that only around 1% of all women in the UK are virgins at that age. My guess is that this pattern is similar in other Western countries. It scares me that I am in that 2%. I only meet the 99% of women who are not virgins, as far as I know. I never meet any of the 1%. The group must be small and/or they are in other social gatherings.

Once last year I went to a meetup at night at the Academy of Sciences. It was a nightlife event, so only adults were allowed. There was a bar and music and even a dance floor, even with the scientific exhibits open at nearby. For some reason, it seemed to me that even in a science environment there were a lot of neurotypical people who were gregarious and talkative. I felt still out of place. Not sure if here there are simply a majority of people who are neurotypicals who attend meetups.

The meetup venue you are using is, I presume, Meetup.com? I never had good experiences with that one either. It's very much focused on extroverts. I started a group that no one showed up to, was part of another group where someone liked to question other people super aggressively, and another where some guy got very creepy with me.

Female virgins are likely to be those who are staying at home alone much of the time, as I did. I understand how embarrassing it can be, even though females don't face quite the same stigma as males in this case. One of the very few gender-based double-standards that we have the upper had on. But also remember there are women who are not virgins but have experienced bad relationships with men who have made sex feel dirty, degrading, or painful, or that sex was all she had to offer in a relationship. Your innocence will be appealing to a woman who has been hurt and used in this way.

Some scientists can be highly extroverted, and even world-class jerks. Those are the ones who attended that meetup. The introverted ones were probably in their rooms on their computers. A quieter venue like a lecture, forum, symposium, or the like might be a better option. There are also, counter-intuitive as it might seem, gatherings for people on the spectrum. Temple Grandin has spoken at some of these, and some other activists and public figures.

And never be afraid of being in a slim minority! That means different, not defective.

Yes, they are events from the platform meetup.com. I definitely felt the same vibe like you said, it is quite slanted towards extroverts. I used to attend a foreign language meetup, but you would be surprised how much sex was talked about despite the meetup not being anything related at all to sex. Instead, although people would speak different languages, just as I do, the topics would invariably revolve around dating and sex. And some people attended despite not even knowing any other language other than English. Some monoglot Anglophones talked to me, and just talked about how the dating scene was so hard that it would be better to talk to and try to date foreigners.

I actually tried to make my own semi-meetup group. In 2016, since I could not afford the $15 per month fee to own a meetup group, I just made a Facebook group and tried to invite people from other meetups to come. Eventually the turnout was so bad that only 2 or 3 people attended, then I ended up attending alone. Depressing would be an understatement to describe that experience.

I had talked a bit with my mother further about this virginity thing. You may be right--I know that as a male, a lot of things are heavily in my favour just for being male, but that male virginity is an exception--it is a big taboo up to this day. My mother reported never really feeling any sort of terribly low self-esteem nor experienced heavy bullying for being a virgin until age 27. Sometimes a random, occasional comment about when she would get married and stuff, but nothing along the lines of the "You are scum, virgin loser" or being called "worthless loser", "no woman will ever want a virgin like you" and related comments.

Just last night I had to go to an early Christmas dinner where extended family were present. I was asked the usual, "Hey boy, how old are you now?". Then when I said 30, the expected follow up was, "And you married yet? Where is your wife?". It is a lot of pressure on me from all sides. Since I was 13 or 14, extended family used to make fun of me for not having a girlfriend. There is gossip within the family that I am asexual or gay or mentally retarded. I have been suspected of being autistic, in which case they would not be exactly wrong about that. But retarded or gay, just for failing to have a girlfriend, well, that is a sign of as you say, the stigma of being a male virgin. I have a second cousin who is in his 60s yet still single. Extended family make him the butt of jokes and call him gay and f****t behind his back, even though I am very sure that the guy is not gay at all. It is part of the reason why I try to avoid extended family as well as negative people from meetups as much as possible.

I think that studies show that whilst on average, male virgin adults with Asperger's have a lot harder time finding girlfriends and losing their virginity compared to female virgin adults with Asperger's, even though their female counterparts do have on average more sex and more relationships, that often the relationships are broken and rotten, and the women get tricked and taken advantage of more. So it is quite hard for adult virgins for both sides, Asperger's just making it a lot harder. It is like trying to compare which is worse, having one's leg amputated or one's arm amputated. Neither choice is particularly appetising.

I do notice that some scientists are similar to those neurotypical, gregarious types that are highly judgemental. Perhaps they are book smart, but never let their knowledge of science positively influence their personal character in their lives. Perhaps in some cases, having a science background does not even make one a decent person at all. For example, Josef Mengele and Shiro Ishii were both well-trained doctors, but they were also both horrifically brutal, world-renowned war criminals.

That is interesting, I never knew that there were specific meetups for people on the spectrum. My intuition tells me that they probably are not listed on meetup.com, but perhaps Facebook or some other platform. It is strange, for being such a reputedly "accepting" city, people are othered here a lot, and ASD is not seen in a good light at all here, even amongst the younger. In fact, the younger generation, which unfortunately is my own generation, often regard ASD as just a step above "retarded" and "creepy". In the dating world here, "ASD = creepy" is almost an automatic reflex thought.

I know first-hand how much it hurts to have set something up and then nobody else attends. I wouldn't wish that experience on anybody. I felt like a speck of dust that everybody else had trod into the ground.

I'm a female but experienced embarrassment on my own part, and disgust and shaming from others, about being a virgin until I was 30. But it's so important not to have sex just to have it. Your first experience so often shapes how you view sex, and yourself, for a long time. One example is young gay males whose first experience is something empty and anonymous, and they come to think real love is never possible for them. They end up thinking the "cruising" life is all they deserve, and engage in some really risky behaviors, all because their first guy dictated the terms of the encounter and made it about his own gratification. Straight women can be that nasty to straight men too, so please be careful.

The people you have heard those horrible messages from were not speaking any version of truth, Lundi. Please don't believe them, and please don't think that all people are like that. They feel small and insecure and handle it by going on the attack rather than tackling their own brokenness. A quote may help you here: "Genuine goodness is threatening to those at the opposite of the moral spectrum." I forget who said that one.

It hurts the worst when you hear those messages from family members, especially if you feel you're outnumbered, or that it would be wrong to speak back to them. I have no advice to give on that one, save to hold to your own truth no matter what they say. A lot of people in these modern, unstable times are feeling lost and insecure, that the world is shifting beneath our feet and we have so little to hold onto anymore. Ripping other people apart is how some people boost their own egos. It sucks, but it's about them, not about the targets of their aggression. That's a lesson that took a long time to sink in with me, and I absorbed a lot of the negative messages I heard from other people. Not only that, but I repeated them to myself and smashed apart my own self-esteem. Please don't repeat my mistake! You're an awesome person and deserve to tell yourself that.

You're certainly right that it's hard to compare different people's particular difficulties. The arm or leg amputation is a very apt analogy. Everybody, no matter their specific struggle, would do well to remember that suffering is universal, no matter what form it takes. We can't fall to arguments about which group of people has suffered the most. That only invalidates everybody's pain.

You're certainly right that just because someone is a scientist, does not mean they live by reason or good character. Mengele and Ishii are not the only ones of their line, nor will they be the last. Intelligence, education, and training are all nothing more than tools, and it depends on the person's integrity whether those tools are used to improve people's lives or to destroy them.

It might be good to do some searches for conferences and such for people with ASD. I can't think of any specific names right now. FB probably has something, but I don't know, I'm not on that platform. Meetup.com is, as we have discussed, designed for the over-the-top extroverted NTs. Some people who consider themselves super open-minded have their own specific biases that they refuse to acknowledge. I see this first-hand all the time. I work as a custodian at a university and see how professors behave who consider themselves open-minded and free of bias. They'll be perfectly friendly to a black or Hispanic custodian, but rude to one who is white or Asian unless that person is an immigrant. That shows their racism: they consider the job appropriate for someone black or brown or an immigrant, but a native-born white or Asian person is supposed to have achieved more, and if they "failed" to do so, it's because they're lazy/stupid/etc. And some display open disgust and contempt to anyone in a working-class position there, as do the middle-class white students.

ASD is highly stigmatized in a culture that demands effortless, tip-top social skills as a measure of human worth. STEM careers are usually touted as a good path for those on the spectrum, but that discrimination exists in those fields too. All I can suggest is to find your niche, and don't listen to those trying to rip you down. You're going through a rough time right now and they're only making it harder. I really think you will flourish once you find your place of belonging. That's something we all need. Keep looking forward to your further schooling! You could find your right people and environment there.

It is especially crushing when seeing that not only the number of attendees decreases, but also that the attendees are also just as rude and judgemental as any other person here. I eventually just went to the bar alone, a meetup of just one person.

That is unfortunate that you suffered so much stigma for being a female virgin. It seems that virginity has always been a negative trait, and that as time passes by this stigma is becoming more extreme rather than receding, which is also very unfortunate. It is impossible to influence society by trying to teach people to have open minds and be less judgemental, given that there seems to be a growing trend to berate others for their alleged "weird" characteristics.

I see what you mean about the first experience. On the forum, I see quite a lot of virgin males that are so embarrassed about their status, that they have to for example go to Amsterdam's Red Light District and "get it over with" as fast as possible, just to say that they have done it. I would never do something like that. I know that a lot of virgin men feel like they need to almost get rid of their virginity so that they can stop being in a stigmatised position in life, but I just cannot do that for the sake of it. Just to rush like hell to "get it over with" meaninglessly to please society is not worth it.

Over here this is a part of what is called a "social resumé". Just like a CV for job applications, one's social resumé means have you completed certain tasks and or have certain traits to be considered "normal". On your social resumé it is unspoken, but generally accepted that in order to be accepted by one's peers, it is imperative to not be a virgin adult under any circumstance, but also have had a list of ex-partners plus numerous sexual experiences as "proof" of your "normalcy". Then you can carry around your "social resumé" with good reputation. In this way, someone like I who is still a virgin has a poor social resumé. It would be comparable to having a record on your CV that you had been fired from your previous job for blatant incompetence, and thus is a black mark on your resumé. That would be approximately how virginity is treated in socialising here. So I am basically like an outcast. At least, according to societal norms. I have to ignore these as much as possible.

I think the worst part about extended family insulting due to being a virgin is that you expect blood relatives to be at least somewhat sympathetic no matter what since you are directly related to them. The ones whom you think would help you also shun you. So it is this type of reaction that makes me think that a lot of people really believe that being single and virgin is something very shameful.

It might take a while for me to find specific groups for ASD and such here. I think that just any sort of socialising is geared more to the "normal" people, and that even the nerdy things like tech are considered as given a reprieve from being called "odd" since here is the IT capital of the world. Anything that is nerdy that is not tech/coding/IT is not well received. Foreign languages like my interest is not really considered as interesting. It is basically seen as a useless waste of time that could be spent partying or going out to meet others. Sex is considered a very popular thing. I am not sure if I had said this before, but just like Los Angeles, San Francisco are an important hub for the international porn industry. Just a few miles away from where I live is a dungeon doubled as a porn production studio used for BDSM films to distribute to an international audience. And not to forget that the free love sentiment of the late 1960s and all of the 1970s was born here in San Francisco. I am not sure exactly what caused this obsession with sex, but I can say that one's sexual status and history is very closely tied in with someone's worth as a person. This is a very skewed way of thinking as you say, and one must be cognisant enough to reject this mindset, no matter how much peers try to influence you with this mentality.

I never knew that people in academics were like that. I do get shunned in social settings, for being from a working class background, for not making six figures or more, and of course for being single and virgin. I have a lot of traits that would count as negative points on what I had called the "social resumé".

I am not sure where you are exactly, but your profile says Mid-Atlantic, which I presume is somewhere like Pennsylvania or West Virginia. But here in West Coast California, especially the Bay Area, there is a lot, and I mean a lot, of judging others. Judging others is almost like a pasttime; people will openly roll their eyes at you, turn their backs on you, pretend that you do not exist, gossip with their hands over their mouth whilst pointing at you and whispering to other people, plus other ridiculously blatantly rude things. It really is strange. This city is known to be "accepting", yet I think that it is the most unaccepting, judgemental city not only out of all major cities in USA but also in Europe and other places.

I do see how ASD is shunned especially when social expertise is more or less a prerequisite to be accepted in society. I do see it in STEM fields, but in their own weird way. Here, for example, where there are countless tech people, I notice that a lot of people in tech generally act like teenagers. Saying "bro" and "dude" when they are in their 30s and 40s is common. It is as if their brains were stuck at age 13 and never matured properly thereafter. Attitudes about sex are often held to the same standards to those of people in high school. That is, saying things like "ew virgin loser", which a select few of women have told me over the years, is quite common, no matter that they are in their late 20s or 30s or 40s. What is really annoying about gossip is that it affects how other women think of me.

In the past when people knew about it, another woman could find out through gossip. Losing my "dateability" due to this virgin stigma easily spread, and that was quite depressing.

I think that when I studied in the past, most of my fields were very male-heavy. I studied mathematics, biology and chemical engineering. My classmates in mathematics and chemical engineering were almost all male. I think that the percentage could easily be over 95% male in those fields. In biology, it was a bit more even. However, due to studying too much, I almost never thought too much about dating. I was very focussed on academics. I had no social life. I think that after all of this studying, it stunted my social skills, and by extension, my dating skills. It would not be a lie to state that a 13 year old probably has better social and dating skills that I do.

I take solace as well that I plan in the future probably within the next year or two to study medicine, my lifelong dream that I had insofar been unable for various reasons to fulfil. If I understand correctly, in almost all faculties of medicine in any university, there are usually more female students than male students in this course. Obviously I am not studying medicine just to date the women. But it could help by coincidence that the gender ratio is not horrifically skewed towards males, such as some fields like the notorious computer science/IT field, where it is common to have the entire year's class be 100% male. Perhaps female students of medicine, by the virtue of the subject manner, would be more compassionate, since they are by default aiming to treat ill people. Surely this experience would instill a sense of understanding and a less judgemental attitude. At least that is what I hope. It was what drew me to this field in the first place, the good feeling that one gets from helping people. I know that over here it seems like this mentality is lost on a lot of people, but I would hope that this would offer me a bit more of an opportunity. Over here, I have met a few female acquaintances who had studied medicine but acted very judgemental, especially when they found out about my virginity. But as you say, just because one is in a certain field does not mean that they are going to have compassion or empathy.

When people feel insecure, some will go on the attack. I could go into a whole sociopolitical thing here but that would probably be inappropriate to this forum. Please remember that when they behave that way, it's about them, not you.

You're very wise to avoid those kinds of districts! There are so many risks, and listing them would become a novel-length post.

What you're facing is the local culture, not anything universal. There will always be people who judge, but it's their own insecurity that drives them. That applies to your extended family as well. They're your blood but they still have all the same foibles as those not related to you. You will fare better elsewhere, and keeping a mental barrier in place to protect you from family insult.

Woah, I never knew that about San Francisco, no wonder the culture is so awful! You'll do very well to get out of that nightmare. Just stay true to yourself until you can escape to a more suitable place. Even if no ASD support groups exist around there (though such a major city must have at least one), you have a path forward with your schooling. Focus on that, not what surrounds you.

Professional academics are no different from anybody else. Some are petty, looking down upon each other for specializing in a subject they view as "less than." Some hold onto rigid biases, or are hypocrites. For example, those who go to climate marches yet throw trash and recycling in the wrong bins on a daily basis and use Styrofoam cups for their coffee multiple times in a day. Yet some others are dedicated instructors and researchers. No group of any kind is a monolith.

I'm in southeast PA. It's a patchwork of mini-cultures around here. If you don't mind me saying, it sounds like your area really @@$%ing sucks. A good person can't be expected to thrive in an environment like that. I urge you again not to beat yourself up over it, and not to focus on it excessively. That will only harm your self-esteem and make you too focused on the negative. A lot of people, no matter where they stand in life, never actually grow up, they just grow older. That, unfortunately, is something that seems universal. In a new place where nobody knows you, there won't be gossip. You can get a totally fresh start.

STEM is overwhelmingly dominated by white heterosexual cisgendered males. Efforts to address this have had limited success. You are certainly not the only one to have put an academic career over a social life! No offense intended, but that's almost a cliche. Americans and Brits use the term "wonk." The Japanese use the term "otaku." It's common enough worldwide to have special names, so you most certainly are not alone in that regard!

I wish you the best in your studies. The medical profession is a noble one, so long as the doctor has empathy. I've known some awful ones, but also a few good ones. You will be one of the good ones. The higher percentage of women in your field is a good sign of hope! Most of them will also be likely to have put off the dating scene to focus on their careers. And you'll be alongside people with shared values and goals. Your current environment is full of those who are selfish and shallow. What you'll find in medical school should be completely different. Be prepared for meeting some who are there because of the money and status, or because their parents pushed them there, but just as many if not more will be there because like you, they want to help people become well.

I kind of understand what you mean. I myself am heavily mixed-race, and do not fit easily to any one particular racial group. Based on my physical features, I can pass for all sorts of random ethnicities, like Mexican, Japanese, Arab, Uyghur, Persian, Brazilian, Turkish, etc. People seem to not like my unusual racial makeup since I always get asked about it then lambasted. So I probably seem like an easy target to make fun of to those people.

There is a saying that the women here in the city cooked up. It refers to the men. It is, "The odds are good, but the odds are good." This is a very loaded meaning, but it refers to the fact that San Francisco's gender ratio is heavily skewed towards males, such that like I had said before, in ages 20-40 males it is at least 70% male/30% female. In some areas it might be even higher than that at around 80% male. So the saying refers to the fact that mathematically speaking, women have a lot of choice since there are so many men. However the "goods are odd" part means that the "goods", i.e. the men, are "odd", as in weird. So it is like going to a store and saying that the "goods", i.e. like meat or canned products are "odd" or bad. In other words, the women have so much choice because men outnumber women heavily, but that all of the men are weirdos. I have heard several women tell me this. Not sure if they were hinting at me being odd as well, but I would not be surprised.

I see what you mean about scientific hypocrisy. There are actually those types exactly here: they fight climate change, attend climate marches, yet if you have seen the news, San Francisco is the most polluted city in the entire country. Walk around in the streets, you see rubbish, plastic, food, drink, even human faeces. There is no real sympathy for cleanliness despite San Francisco's heavy support for climate change. It makes no sense.

What also makes no sense is hearing from medical students that they just studied medicine or nursing for the money. I think that is a completely erroneous way of thinking. At least, when I think about why I want to study medicine, making huge sums of money is definitely nowhere near the top reasons for doing so.

I am not familiar too much with your area, as the only near place that I have visited in the general region was Philadelphia and some closeby part of New Jersey more than a decade ago. But you are right, this place has serious problems here. I think that the extreme competitive mindset is a combination of the IT industry, being surrounded by Stanford University to the south plus UC Berkeley to the east, the millionaire/billionaire Marin County to the North, mixed in with general West Coast Californian superficiality. If you ever visit here, I am not sure if you would notice it unless you stayed for a longer period, but you would definitely notice the high level of rubbish in the streets. Not exaggerating, there have been cases in the news where people have been infected by HIV due to stepping on syringes left back by drug addicts in Downtown streets. And they were wearing regular shoes. Imagine wearing sandals or heels.

I think that also what is a negative for me here as well is that my dating mentality is dissimilar to other guys. I feel much more comfortable when a woman approaches or talks to me, rather than when I try to approach. If I approach, I feel very awkward and extremely nervous, since I have had social anxiety since childhood. If a woman approaches me, it takes away a lot of the anxiety for me. So my dating mindset is a bit more like a woman's rather than like the stereotypical man's. This is why a lot of men (and even some women) call me p*ssÿ and other names because I feel uncomfortable doing straightforward approaching women to talk to them.

I think that medicine would be the first time since studying biology where women would outnumber men. I have been in very heavily male environments for most of my adult life. All of my 20s has mostly been in environments that were 90%+ male. Even meetups were terrible. Some meetups were even 100% male. Not once, not twice, but ten times in a row even. Women just never attended. I wonder if they just felt uncomfortable being around so many guys, many of whom were single, and some very desperate.

I do think that medical school in Europe, where salaries are a bit lower than in USA and universal healthcare is the norm rather than privatised healthcare like here, that perhaps the students in general studying there, which by definition extends to mean the women as well, are more sympathetic and more caring. I do not think that parents push their children to study medicine just for some sort of abstract "prestigious" title feeling. I had a vague dream of marrying a woman who were a doctor when I was younger, because I thought that the sympathetic factor would be a big plus. For example, my female doctor had asked me if I was sexually active. Not for the same motive as the women at meetups obviously, but she had to know and if I were at risk for STIs. I cannot imagine any of the women who made fun of me for being a virgin being a good doctor. I mean, what would they do if they were my doctor, I tell them I am a virgin, and then they laugh at me? It would be beyond ridiculous.

I remember one date in 2016 with a Venezuelan woman who was studying English here, where we had planned to go to a certain restaurant then a certain bar thereafter. However, upon meeting, she immediately changed plans and told me that we were going to some other places instead. I was completely baffled, and throughout the whole night I was just confused as to why she had done this. She was laughing on and off throughout, and made fun of me for being rigid and getting startled/confused by change. She told me in Spanish, "You really need everything organised like clockwork, eh?" then laughed at me. Later, since she had already known that I was an introvert who spent a lot of time alone at home, she said, "Well, I got you to get out of your cave this time." This is probably one of my "better" dates, compared to the other disasters. You may be right that the environment is not conducive to people like me. Not only the Asperger's, but the crippling social anxiety that was worse when I was a child, plus social awkwardness. It seems like acceptance is not really a prized trait here.

People who don't like to think with nuance don't respond well to someone they can't place into a neat little box. I'll repeat the advice to not worry about it; its them, not you. Especially in our modern climate, people think of the "other" in terms of stereotype or even caricature.

Hetero cis men all over the world speak of women as commodities; that's a strange reversal where you live, and no better.

Jobs with high pay and high prestige will always draw those who seek that alone, regardless of whether the idealized version if the job is one of helping people or not.

A lack of community, belonging, and mutual respect will inevitably lead to just about every issue you have mentioned that plagues your city. Have you ever considered volunteer work, faith groups, or political groups? Taking action in my area has helped me to feel more connected and helped me to meet other people with similar values.

Trust me, lots of women out there like "shy guys" and see it as sweet, not shameful. You have to be who you are. Women spot a phony pretty quickly and that's always a turn-off, unless all she's looking for is a quick easy shag. But most women will feel uncomfortable being that outnumbered by men. I'm not sure if any straight man can understand what that's like. I too would bolt if I was the only woman in a room full of desperate men. I experienced sexual harassment in my first job, an ex-boyfriend's behavior after a breakup verged on stalking, and I've had SO many very creepy middle-aged men hit on me. A woman's safety is in danger from men everywhere she goes; that's just a daily reality of life anywhere in the world. Shy guys are much less threatening than more assertive ones. That isn't a downside to every woman, even if the ones you have met were put off.


You might fare much better when you head to Europe. American culture, especially the twisted microcosm of it that surrounds you in San Francisco, is not the whole world.

The woman just didn't understand ASD; your needs are textbook traits of the neurological difference. Bad experiences form such misunderstandings will cause social anxiety. I really think an ASD support group would help you if there's one near your home for adults. Check for online support groups too. There's a forum here on PC as well, I'm not sure how active it is. But you don't have to tie yourself to just one. It isn't uncommon for people to accept certain types of difference but not others. Unfortunately that happens even in activist groups working for cultural change.

The treating people like commodities is very common here. In dating, the numerical scale of 1-10 by marking someone by their physical looks is very popular. It is also used as labels. Instead of referring to people by name, they use the number. For example, a man might tell his male friend, "Hey did you talk to the 5 over there?" and the friend might respond, "No, I only talked with the two 6's". A woman might tell her girlfriend, "Did you see that 3 over there?" and her friend could reply, "That guy was a 0.5, just look at him!" Both genders seem to consider each other as sub-humans on a regular basis. However, that saying, "The odds are good, but the goods are odd" is specifically women referring to there being excessive amounts of men in the city, and that all of the men are defective.

I am considering formally joining a certain working-class presidential candidate's campaign, probably as an entry-level local campaign worker. His name starts with "B", which probably makes it a bit obvious who he is. I have been a supporter for years, and I was thinking that perhaps there would be more like-minded people, less judgemental and less classist, especially given that most of his supporters earn less than six figures, like me. And unlike the majority of people in this city. Most people here make not only more than six figures, but many make millions. $120000 is the poverty line in San Francisco--making less than $120000 per year is officially considered as "poor". I attended his rallies before, and the supporters there were kind and friendly. And clearly, no one there asked me about my sex life.

I do find, and have always found since I was a young boy, that I felt more at home in Europe than here in USA. The culture in Europe is, to summarise, just more similar to me as a person. Introverted people are not considered scum in Europe. I studied in the UK and had a nice time. Although whether you can call UK as part of Europe as of right now is to be debated, but that is another story. In any case, people were much friendlier than in California, notwithstanding the very untrue stereotype that British people are reserved and stand-offish. A Mediterranean country like Italy have even more welcoming and friendlier people.

That does comfort me to know that the "shy guy" is valued by some women. In my mind, I always had this belief that shy, awkward guys like I were considered as rejects. That was mostly due to how I was treated, as well as fellow shy guy friends and acquaintances. I had one acquaintance from a foreign language meetup. He was 33 and still a virgin despite not wanting to be one, so similar to me but older. He had told me various times about how he had went on dates and got rejected outright immediately when women had found out about his virginity. I have even seen him get sly comments at meetups. For example, he would be in a group and introduce himself to a group of women. Then someone next to him would tell the women, "Oh, he is a bit shy, because you know, he is still a...virgin, so, ya know..." and I could see him get embarrassed due to his face turning red. I thought, well if not only I get treated like this due to being a virgin, but also other shy virgin males, then I guess that shy, virgin males really are universally considered as rejects by women. Again, forgetting to take into account sample bias. It may very well be true that in this city the shy, virgin male is considered a reject compared to other places in the world, but the world is so large that there are so many other places where this is not the case.

I see what you mean about thinking outside of my city. Recently I was in a group that was, as you guessed, talking about dating. A guy said how the dating scene is so brutal for guys. A woman retorted, "The dating scene is brutal because the men are just sub-par. Up your game guys, if you cannot handle the heat, get out of the kitchen! Dating is for the cream of the crop, we do not want average guys. Being an 8 or 9 is a minimum!" I think that that really opened my eyes about how dating is considered here. Dating is almost entirely based on Social Darwinism--like in the wild, the shy, awkward animals get no mates whilst the so-called "alpha males" get all of the mates. So I probably just should not even be trying in such an environment. Not to mention, I find Social Darwinism to be an appalling philosophy.

I just noticed how Social Darwinism infests society here. San Francisco have the highest homeless population not only of any city in USA, but also of any city in the entire Western World (Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand). That is astonishing. The mentality is if one is rich, ***** the poor. If one is attractive, ***** the ugly. If one is extroverted, ***** the introverted. Society is so much about the "me, me, me" mindset, combined with a nasty twist of the early 1980s saying, "Greed is good".

I had a feeling that she did not understand me. Just recently also I realised that I kept going out with extroverted neurotypical women who most likely have absolutely no idea what ASD is like. Probably neither social anxiety, since they seemed at ease in almost all social situations, when I felt shaky and nervous. It would be very hard for such different personalities to match.

I've donated to a candidate for the first time this year and volunteered for his campaign events in my area. We might be supporting the same one! We can PM about that if you like. But the fellow supporters have all been very nice people with a strong values system, and genuinely believe in respect and equality. There has been a little class bias form a few, but not intentional. Implicit bias, especially on class issues, is woven into the fabric of American culture.

What's considered "poor" where you live is unfathomable to me. They'd probably consider me underclass rather than working class. That extremity of easy affluence certainly taints their world view. I urge you not to focus too much on a culture that toxic. You won't find your place there, so keep on looking forward to your goals. You'll find your pond somewhere else. I've been following Brexit too, and I fully know what you mean about the UK being European and yet not, with a steadily increasing murkiness of the definition. It sounds like you already found a better fit for you, so you already have a path ahead.


Shy guys are only rejected by over-the-top extroverts. Shy women, women who have been in bad relationships, women on the spectrum, and several others who don't quite fall into "type" would likely prefer a shy guy. Good for you for placing your experiences in the context of sample bias. Where you live does not at all represent the entire world.

That was classic Social Darwinism right there. I 100% agree that it's appalling, both morally and factually. Imagine the loss to the scientific world if Stephen Hawking had been told to go and die when he was diagnosed with ALS at 21. And how many other scientists, artists, and philosophers have had disabilities, or been on the spectrum, or been LGBTQ? That alpha male and alpha female nonsense disgusts me and I wouldn't date either one (I'm bisexual).

It isn't at all uncommon for areas with very high affluence to also have nearby high poverty. That affluence comes from somewhere, and it sure isn't hard work alone. America is considered one of the richest nations in the world, if not the very richest, yet we also lead the world in rates of child hunger and poverty. Areas of rural poor have no nearby physical or mental healthcare and terrible schools, and certainly no higher education. Social Darwinism at work again, because rural is considered "less than." In any regard, not just economic, those who have less are considered as BEING less.

The ubiquitous narcissism in our culture disgusts me and makes me also battle against misanthropy. I have seen people who genuinely care about others and devote their lives to selfless service. The candidate I support also gives me hope. That ugly element certainly exists, and sees greed and selfishness as natural or even beneficial, but it isn't the whole of our population.

Highly extroverted NTs (I call them HENTs) would never understand ASD or social anxiety. I actually was diagnosed with ASD at 31, but I don't think it's accurate. I was in a bad place mentally at the time and while I do have some traits ( my whole family does), I don't think I'm all the way on the spectrum. I tend to think of the figurative before the literal, and I can read facial expressions and body language even though I was a slow learner (I grew up pretty isolated). But I do have hyper-sensitive hearing, have had some bad meltdowns, and have always thought in a way that's very different from others. The social situations you were part of were created by and for HENTs. They WILL navigate them with ease, and cast out those who can't swim along.

I also have donated for the first time to a political candidate. He has the most donations, both net money amount plus amount of donators. The people in his campaign are very different from people whom I have met at meetups.

There is no middle class here. People are in one of two camps--either one is making six figures, usually $200000+, sometimes millions, or one is very poor, living in a tent on the street. It really is a binary thing, there is nothing much in the middle. I have no friends here, because all of my old friends from school have moved out voluntarily or been evicted due to being unable to pay rent. Most people who live here are very well off, although many are struggling. $200000 is considered a "marginal" salary. Average rent now is between $3500-$6000 per month. I have met some people who pay even $7000 per month for a small one-bedroom flat Downtown. And as you say, affluence from the millionaire class brings a lot of a superiority complex and looking down on the poor people. Some people have made fun of me telling me to go on welfare and stuff. Since they make $400000 per year or whatever, they often slag on me. I get passive-aggressive insults for not wearing expensive designer clothes, or the fact that I do not own a suit. The famous saying is that money cannot buy happiness. I would add that money cannot buy manners nor good character.

I think that one of the reasons for the dating pool to be as it is, is that most males who move to San Francisco are almost invariably IT workers. I would say that well over 90% of all males moving to San Francisco are connected with IT in some way or another. However, most females moving to San Francisco are usually in finance, real estate or some other monied field. By virtue of males in IT, the males in the city have a higher than average incidence of ASD. However, the females seem to have a lower than average incidence of ASD. So now I can see that perhaps the fact that neurotypical women are meeting IT guys who may or may not have ASD, and someone like me who is not in IT but still has the disorder, relationships rarely work out and there is a lot of animosity between genders in the overall dating scene.

The women who are in finance, hotel management, business, etc. tend to be more on the extrovert side, as well as more on the hard partying side. I have extremely rarely met an introverted woman in this city, if I had to guess perhaps one, maybe two at the very most in all of my time living here. Like the last time that I went on a date in August 2019, she could with great ease navigate in any social situation. To me it was like seeing a genie work magic. When I stutter or screw up my speech when talking, it often raises eyebrows. They know right away that I am not socially adept. I have been told that perhaps because I am an only child, I grew up very socially awkward. This may be somewhat true, but I think that even if I had siblings, I would still have grown up awkward. In Europe however, in my experience there seems to be a lot of introverted women. Of course there are a lot of extroverted ones in Europe as well, but introverts are not bashed on a regular basis for being out of the norm.

Social Darwinism is in play here. Poor people are being kicked out of their housing due to unable to pay rent, and end up homeless. We already have the highest homeless population in the entire Western World, and it is just increasing more and more. But a lot of IT people especially support kicking poor people out of their homes. It means that rich people who move here can take their spot in buying properties where poor people's homes used to be. I find that sick and seriously lacking empathy. People with ASD are often accused of lack of empathy, but what about neurotypical rich people who hate poor people so much that they would rather make poor people homeless?

I hear Social Darwinism in dating too. People do not want a partner who is a "7" because a "7" would make their children be less than the best when they grow up. Or that being with a "7" in public would ruin their reputation for settling for someone like that. They want a partner who is 8, 9 or 10. Not even considering if they themselves are 8, 9 or 10. I can only imagine what women who only want an 8+ would think of someone like me. Or rather, I should probably not even think about it, since I would not date someone like that anyway.

I think that there are different levels of ASD. If I understand correctly Level 1 is Asperger's, or high-functioning. Probably we are both in that category. In any case, the neurotypicals do handle social situations with remarkable grace and tact. I know over five languages to either advanced or near-native level, and a few others to high-intermediate, but trying to speak "neurotypical" is something that I have failed to do and seem to have a lot of trouble with. I am learning non-related languages such as Russian and Farsi right now. Both are difficult for me, but much easier compared to speaking NT.

A 2-tier economy is becoming standard; it isn't at all unique to your area. The middle class has been shrinking for a long time and even the working class seems to be closing off. Moving up is a thing of the past. It takes everything we've got just to maintain a precarious hold on what little we have.

Gender conflicts among rigidly cicgendered people, both within and between their polarized groupings, is also not unique and something that both bores and annoys me. I dream of a post-gender society. And also one without the concept of money. What you're descirbing is classic gentrification, though at a much higher scale than in most areas. And you're right, Social Darwinism plays a huge underlying role in defense of the practice.

The DSM5 changed it to autism spectrum disorder for a reason. There are no clear tiers, it's a wide range of overlapping traits that aren't at the same level for everyone. One person on the spectrum might have no trouble with humor or sarcasm but have ultra-high sensory sensitivities. Another might be almost nonverbal but handle change almost as well as an NT. It sounds like it's the nonverbal stuff you have trouble with if languages come with relative ease if you put effort but have no success with NT communication. People judge a lot more harshly on facial expression, tone, and body language than the words you speak. Writing frees people of those constraints.

True, both in Britain and USA, as well as Canada and various European countries, the working class are being relegated to a status where no one really addresses concerns. Monied interests just care about maintaining the status quo and power. The only places where the working class have power are in the Scandinavian countries like Norway and Finland.

I often get berated for being very left-wing economically. I also believe in a society without money, without social and economic classes. A lot of my economic philosophy is based on the anarcho-communist government of Barcelona and Catalonia in general in the 1930s. No money, no classes, everyone equal. Close to no one whom I have met knows what I am talking about here. And if I explain it, you can imagine why people making six figures or millions hate me. And my trying to date women who make six figures or millions--which I have tried before because I had not known about their income levels before--quite clearly never works out.

At meetups, often you encounter people who are unbelieveably proud that they work for a big tech company like Facebook or Google--indeed, walking Downtown you see all of the headquarters for tech companies like Google, Uber, Twitter, Facebook, Lyft, Dropbox, etc--but often you will see how they often find themselves to be better than others. A few acquaintances told me, "Some guy asked what I did. I said I do sales. He said that he is a coder at Google. Then he basically brushed me off as a nobody." and similar comments. In addition to discrimination based on class, there is also a discrimination based on profession. Non-tech people are of a lower social stratum compared to tech people. Finance people get a pass, as well as high professions like doctors and lawyers. But anyone less than that is relegated to the second (or third) division. People like me.

I think that Social Darwinism is particularly popular in San Francisco due to the IT sector. I have met countless people in data or IT who basically treat people like data points. In other words, they treat people as numbers--as entities that have no feelings or worth as human beings. So the attitude of displacing working class people from their homes is nothing to them. They think of it as, "Well, if we shift 100000 poor ones out, we can get 100000 rich IT ones (one of us) in the city." People are just a number to them. Likewise, I am a "number" and they consider me as less than they are because, also due to numbers, I earn less, I have less wealth by number, less cars, less space in my home (sq.ft. or m2) than they do, I have a lower number of friends than they do, a lower number of girlfriends than they have had, a lower number of sex experiences than they have had--the list goes on.

It took me a long time, probably just until October, to realise that I was living in some sort of dystopia where I was not the only one being treated like this. I notice that I am also not the one with low self-esteem. I have met a lot of male acquaintances at meetups who had told me that they also had some self-esteem issues based on how they get treated, both in dating and in social gatherings. Probably not as bad as my case, because they do sometimes have success, but there is a general sentiment.

But thanks for telling me about my self-esteem. I am very dense when it comes to interpreting things. I am basically of the nature, "If I am not told, I never know". So when people hint things at me, I often do not even sense it in the first place. Yet people think that I am purposely ignoring their subtle hints. I have to be told extremely explicitly to the point that it is blatantly obvious.

We often have differing traits no matter having ASD, true. Everyone has a little bit of a better understanding on how to do A, and another person maybe B. I have a poor, almost non-existent, sense of humour. This probably puts off many women here, since I have heard many times that sense of humour is important in a guy, in addition to physical looks, sexual history, income, etc. My sense of humour is quite lacking to the point that I cannot tell when someone is making a joke. My default is to think that someone is always talking literally and seriously. If someone wants to make a joke to me, they must tell me explicitly, "I am only joking" or, "This is a joke", lest I just think that they are speaking factually. This weird quality, in addition to my aversion to smiling or any sort of body language, probably contributes as well to my being considered "unattractive" in dating.

I think I might be on the spectrum too, as I have a lot of trouble recognizing humor, especially sarcasm. I wish people would just say what they mean, but it doesn't work that way unfortunately.

Hi
Your posts and struggles are written for me because I am the mirror reflection of you. The only difference is I am a female. I struggle with society anxiety and loneliness and could not hold up a conversation as well. I am extremely lonely, so you are not alone. We are all living in an 'ugly' world and it is really hard sometimes when all your pains consumed you all at once. But I chose to believe there are still genuine, nice and kind people around us. After reading all your posts, I want to tell you that you are a compassionate and beautiful soul, virgin or not and not forgetting that you are very intelligent too. I wish I have a friend like you.

People who think they have something to lose in a society that's more egalitarian need to really think about their privileges. Yet so many will get offended or even angry if you point out their vast privilege. Stratification is certainly nothing new--it's as old as civilization itself--but as wealth gets concentrated into fewer and fewer hands, so does power.

Placing human lives at the level of a collection of numbers is ubiquitous; that isn't your area alone. Some people even call that being objective.

Just scroll through these forums and you'll see how ubiquitous certain issues are. Low self-esteem, loneliness, social isolation, lack of meaning or purpose in our lives, growing inequality, fear of a future that almost guarantees global war/climate change/treatment-resistant pandemic, and a sense of powerlessness and futility. All over the world people are bitterly, even violently divided. People turn to substances, extremism of religion or politics, hate groups, or cults, all to gain what's missing and try to gain control. My chosen candidate is the only one speaking of a crisis of belonging that underlies so much of what's going on in the world, and he's 100% right.

It isn't just you or your ASD that made you think you were the only one suffering form self-esteem issues and trauma from so many negative social interactions. Reading through the forums, any of them, and you'll see that EVERYBODY ends up thinking this way. The self-compassion exercises I found on here have helped me restructure this in my mind to it being part of the shared human experience. Thinking of it this way makes it impossible for pain to feel isolating.

Please don't insult yourself by calling yourself dense. You already get too many insults from other people; don't do it to yourself too or you'll never heal. Everybody on the spectrum needs clearer instruction when it comes to social stuff. Hints and vague implications won't get through, and that isn't your fault. You can't beat yourself up for having a brain that's structured differently.

Literal interpretation of words is gold-standard ASD, especially for males. That's one reason I think I'm subclinical rather than fully on the spectrum; I tend to interpret the figurative before the literal and I enjoy humor, so long as it's clever, and I love subtle plays on words (but no silly puns). I never had issue understanding sarcasm or making eye contact. Actually, I find it hard not to make eye contact, and in some areas making accidental eye contact with somebody is considered a hostile act and I've had some uncomfortable experiences as a result. This quality in you is not weird in the context of ASD. Please pay careful attention in how you speak to yourself. I did this too and once I stopped, I was amazed at how much better I felt. Please check out the self-compassion website if you have not done so.
Self-Compassion
Body language and facial expression are hard for most people on the spectrum, and something I have struggled with too, both understanding it myself and others. Watching some TED talks on it, and skilled actors like Natalie Portman and Eddie Redmayne, have helped me to understand it a little better.

Do you have any clinicians near where you live who do testing for adults? If that's something you're interested in perusing of course.

It is clear that those who make six figures and millions whom I meet deeply despise people like me, and they absolutely do find it offensive when I make a point that they are not better or worse than anyone else just for their money, nor am I better or worse than anyone else. But their argument is always the same--they are some special "innovative" genius who deserves tax write-offs and to treat poorer people (like me) like scum. That guy is a rocket scientist who is probably a millionaire. I tell him, so what. I have three STEM degrees: one in biology, one in mathematics and one in chemical engineering, and plan to get another one in medicine. There is no logical reason that he is a "better", smarter or more "worthy" person than I am just because he has more money. Yet they will tell me, well I hate when my income goes to poor people. Too bad, suck it up, I would tell them. Crying about paying more in taxes to benefit the "peasants" is hardly cause for me to feel sympathy for them in this case. This might be another big reason why I have huge difficulties getting along with people here--a working class person mingling amongst people who brag about their money and profession and wear designer dresses and three-piece suits on a Sunday afternoon is probably not going to see eye-to-eye.

I like the slogan, "Not me, us." I think that sums up a lot of my philosophy as well. However, most people whom I meet think, "Not you, me." It really is the polar opposite of what I believe. "Me, me, me" and "***** the rest" is a very pervasive attitude here, amongst all ages. People really like money and status. Status can be in every single characteristic. Just like how being a person who has had multiple relationships and sex has "high status", someone like me, a virgin at 30, is said to have "low status". It is just an arbitrary game. It is a pity that it took me so many years to figure this out. But better late than never.

I also get lambasted for wearing his campaign shirt. I get called all sorts of names and often verbal arguments. They say that I make them pay taxes for lesser people like myself.

I think that I never realised that a lot of other people could be feeling the same thing about self-esteem. Where I am it seems like the vast majority of people have a lot of self-esteem, perhaps even too much since a lot of people are ruthlessly arrogant and self-absorbed. Their self-esteem is so excessive that they think that they are godlike and are better than everyone else for no logical reason.

You are probably right. I am very self-depreciating. I probably take humility too far and put myself down instead. I subconsciously insult myself, sometimes I barely notice it. Thanks for the self-compassion link.

I do notice that people here lack empathy. I know that the generalisations of ASD is a lack of empathy; however I have met so many neurotypicals who blatantly like an iota of empathy. They "other" people on a regular basis, if someone for example has no health insurance or has a bad health insurance plan like I do, then they just say, "So what? I can afford. ***** those who cannot." I do notice that online some people who moved to San Francisco have written that empathy for your fellow human is very much lacking in many here in this city. It is not without reason that my parents both say that this city is no longer the city that they once knew when they were younger decades ago.

Looking back now, I think that all of the women whom I have tried going on a date with were lacking a lot of empathy. If I revealed something that were not in the mainstream, e.g. not only the virginity and being single, but also in terms of my world views, my hobbies, etc., they do not understand me or even think that perhaps that I am just different but equal like everyone else--they usually think or tell me explicitly that I am a weirdo and a reject. So I think that I just happened to meet ones who did not respect me not only as a date, but also just as a human being.

I think that the ASD brings out a test in people. When I went on dates, I noticed that ASD, in their minds, is a big sign of weirdness. So I got cast as a weirdo just for that. Anyone who is not extroverted, talkative, gregarious, flails their hands and arms around whilst talking and is really animated like the super neurotypicals whom you see at nightclubs and on reality TV, that the person is just too weird. A pity that I have never had a date that were not like this. But at least now I know to find out first if the woman has basic empathy before agreeing to go out with her.

It's also important to remember that not every person with money is an asshole, and not everyone who doesn't is noble. That's one of the themes Victor Hugo explores so beautifully in Les Miserables. You're in a toxic environment and a narcissist is of course going to think that they earned all their privileges and that anyone who has less is less. Narcissists are only capable of thinking in terms of a rigid hierarchy of value. Do some research on malignant narcissism and you'll see the behavior of the people you've endured in a new context.


Go ahead and wear the campaign T-shirt whether they like it or not. You'll win the respect of fellow supporters and might even bring undecided voters on board.

We live in a culture that demands that people mask our pain and fake confidence even when we don't feel it. Inevitably, when we do feel pain or worthlessness or anything else, we falsely believe we're the only ones int he world feeling that way. That sense of isolation is as damaging as it is untrue. It wasn't until I came to this forum that I really understood just how common that is.

It's essential to understand the difference between cognitive and emotional empathy. Cognitive empathy means understanding, for example, the cause-and-effect relationship between an event happening and a person's emotional response to it. There's a lot more to it, of course, and there's plenty of info out there about it. Emotional empathy is really feeling it when you see how someone else feels, like getting upset when you see someone else crying. A sociopath or narcissist has cognitive empathy, but no emotional empathy; this allows them the knowledge of how to exploit other people without feeling any remorse for the pain they cause. A person on the spectrum or with ADHD can feel another person's pain, they just can't always understand the why and how. In addition, the issue might be with having trouble reading a person's facial expression and body language, or not picking up on subtle hints. NTs might misinterpret this as a lack of empathy when it's just a communication glitch, which is probably where the nonsense got started that people n the spectrum lack empathy. My experience, with myself (though probably subclinical) and others who were definitely on the spectrum (diagnosed or not) is that the emotional empathy level is far higher than the general population, once they have the understanding of what's happening.

Absolutely make sure a date is capable of empathy. This is an issue I've faced too and have had so many bad relationships and friendships with narcissists, including with a sibling. My semi-stalker ex is, I'm quite sure, borderline personality disorder. Going back to the mention of Les Mis, I've thought for a long time that early on I'll have the person watch the musical version with me. Anyone who can make it through the whole thing without a box of tissues nearby isn't capable of feeling pain on behalf of anybody else's suffering, and is not BF or GF material, or friend material for that matter.

True, I can see the narcissism in people. I think that the problem is that I meet quite similar types of people, although they are not homogenous at all. But in attitude and profession, they are quite homogenous. Often in tech, and if not tech, in something lucrative such as high finance or real estate. I think that since this type of narcissism and classism is encouraged since high-class restaurants are now opening in newly gentrified parts of the cities, kicking out poor people in the process, that the narcissistic rich people tend to really flaunt it. They are so proud of paying $20+ for a glass of Napa Valley or Sonoma Valley wine. For reference, Napa and Sonoma are only about 40 miles north of San Francisco. We are not even talking about imported French or Italian wines. There are not even any import taxes since these wines are domestic. Things are just overpriced, and it feeds into people's narcissism.

I am definitely wearing my campaign shirts. I just did today. Sometimes people give me dirty looks, but on occasion, some people say, "Hey, I like your shirt". It is a kind of "test" of my self-confidence. I feel more comfortable putting myself in situations where people insult me for being me. I guess that it is part of having self-confidence; these things will just happen.

I did not know that there were different classifications of empathy. I would have to read up on it. But I think that I kind of get it. Those vile people who enjoy making themselves look better than everyone are using cognitive empathy, twisting it to make those whom they dislike really feel bad about themselves. But I do understand what you mean about someone on the spectrum not really converting their empathy into what NTs do, that is making themselves publicly display as understanding the situation. I think that sometimes I do this by mistake. I do feel empathy, but my brain just messes up, and people think that I am acting "cold" or aloof. When what is happening is that I just cannot convert this feeling into showing publicly that I feel bad for whatever they are going through.

I think that before, I just did not know how to screen a possible date. I just did not know at all how to know if a date were suitable or not. Which probably explains why I ended up going on dates with extremely extroverted, talkative, gregarious women with top-notch social skills plus social graces that could easily land them a job as an actress for sitcoms or reality TV. I could not match even 10% of the amount of social grace (i.e. the opposite of social awkwardness) that they had.

Of course, the easiest test they created themselves--when they asked me about my sex life. When they made fun of me or made sly comments for being a virgin and/or never having had a girlfriend, that is quite clear that their empathy levels are low, to say the least.

That type of over-payment for a local wine is a variation on the theme of conspicuous waste, something that has plagued humanity since the dawn of civilization. It isn't unique to any economic form, governmental system, or culture. It will take a lot of human evolution to finally move past it.

Kudos to you for wearing your campaign shirt regardless of the reaction! You'll win the respect of good people, even those who support someone else. Those who will trash you for it aren't capable of genuine respect. Hiding yourself only causes damage. Yet another lesson I had to learn the hard way.

There are some good TED talks about the different types of empathy, and lots of books and articles. I don't have any links to posts, but a general search should bring up something for you. By your posts here, it's clear that you have very deep empathy for a wide variety of people despite being treated so badly for most of your life. In case no one tells you this very often, you are awesome, Lundi. You compassion is strongest for the most downtrodden, the very people most of those around you would spit on if they could. Expression your thoughts and feelings is hard for anybody on the spectrum, or with ADD or other neurological differences.

Knowing how to screen dates is something even NTs struggle with, and many never master it. People who have very good social skills don't judge those who don't; they're patient and kind. The ones you met only pretended to have skills, the "fake-it-'til-you-make-it" mentality. I'm still working on learning to distinguish an act from the genuine article. My own Aspie-ish tendencies make me too inclined to take people at their word. I'm learning to hold back and see if their actions, and how they interact with others, actually match what they say.

Genuine social skills are based on empathy, both cognitive and emotional. Those who use cognitive empathy as a weapon because they lack emotional empathy are fakers, and are likely either narcissists or psychopaths (and of course narcissism is an essential part of psychopathy). It sounds like you fell into a hornet's nest of them.