[downsolong]

I need to break out of my isolation but I'm afraid my 1st real post here will be my last. The taboo here against religion and politics would deny me communication about some of the most hurtful forces in my life (a gag rule not unlike the one I grew up with). I don't know what to do. Chatting with some of you folks has helped but I need more. Maybe this isn't the forum for me.
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[dexter]

Hello downsolong. The rules are in place here to keep this community safe for all members here. Discussions about such subjects often lead to debate and even the smallest altercations alienate a lot of members here very quickly and make them shy away from posting. It is a decision the creator of this board has made to make rules away from those topics so that the people who find them triggering can have a safe community here.

That does not mean that religion cannot be mentioned. Prayers and inspirational ideas are welcomed here as they are often very helpful and are an important part of many people's recovery.

Discussions about how religion "should" fit into a recovery plan are taboo, discussions comparing different religions are taboo, and of course criticisms about religion or judgements against people who are not religious, these are taboo.

Politics is a hot topic in any arena, and in general doesn't come into play with regard to depression or mental illness and so it is highly discouraged here. I don't know how politics effects your depression but if it involves candidates or national policy I don't think it would be safe to discuss here, and I am sorry about that.

There are other forums on the internet for depression and other mental illnesses that don't have the same restrictions that we do here. Of course there are also many many many forums that discuss politics or religion on their own. Most of the depression forums I have been to I have found offputting because of the atmosphere at those places, not strictly because of discussion of religion or politics but because of the general atmosphere, and the rules or lack thereof are an important factor in establishing that environment. However maybe one of those websites will be a better "fit" for you.

I can say that the people, atmosphere, and sense of community here are excellent resources for dealing with depression. If you cannot find a complete support solution without being able to discuss religion or politics then maybe you can find some other sources of support to help with those issues and can continue to take advantage of the people and support offered here for other issues and questions about depression.

Regardless, I hope you are able to find the help and support that you need, wherever that may be. There are lots of different avenues of support available, and if this place does not partially or fully meet your needs I am sure you can find help to discuss and alleviate your depression.

[Wants2Fly]

You have raised some sticky topics, Dazed+. Might it possible to discuss the <font color="red">forces</font> that impact you without specifically mentioning religion? For example, people may be taught to deny themselves pleasure, or to feel unworthy, because of a specific religious environment in which they grew up, or because of non-religious factors, such as being raised by hard-working immigrants who suffered from discrimination in their new country, and had to devote every waking minute to earning a living for themselves and family. Thus, one might say, "I grew up in a family that . . ." without indicting any religion or group.

I can see how politics might enter into depression if one is a member of a group that is systematically stigmatized and discriminated against, such as -- but certainly not limited to -- gay culture. Or HIV positive. Or even women who find themselves confined to certain types of jobs or earning less money for same work, which persists at rate of about 75-cents to the dollar.

So it seems to me that it might be okay to discuss the situations and forces that are keeping us stuck in depression, without getting into heavily political discussuions about what's wrong with society/politics and the political actions that need to be taken. In short, focus on personal experiences not the issues.

Dexter and magnates and poohbahs, can you elaborate a bit more about when and how such factors might be discussed appropriately in this forum, if the social/politcal factors are forces that impact the depression?

[(JD)]

Welcome! Take it slowly, is what I advise. My faith is important to me, and I often mention God, or at least the higher power... but I do not talk about any particular religion (except here I'll mention for clarification: I don't say I grew up Methodist, or that I used to be Southern Baptist.) I have said I'm a member of Coral Ridge Presbyterian and you can see them on cable! That is about my limit... no one wants to feel pressured or triggered. (And I hope I didn't...)

I agree that the forces are "understood" here... spiritual forces of all sides.

Since you are new anyway, don't feel like you have to lay it all out on the table for any one to be able to understand and support you... we care.

But we are a close "family" and very protective of each other and what might trigger another... and make them feel worse. I hope you can come and post and feel better for the doing!

[downsolong]

Hmm......................Thanks for the replies.........................
Still considering it just seems that...To not be able to discuss the way politics and religion have severely harmed and continue to harm me seems like a crime forum where talk of systemic corruption and racketeering's' impacts on me are denied, negating my experience. I'll let things digest awhile. Later-downsolong

[downsolong]

Urrp, wiplash,wisp of hypocracy, heartburn,urp, brp,....growling stomach...burgleblup burgle rriprumbubble...aburrrrrpt ...gas-sorry Anyone have any antacids?

[mj14]

downsolong, I think there is something you might consider that would allow you to talk more openly about your pain. I'd like you to think about the possibility that you have not been harmed by politics or religion, but by people. While it may be true that those people have used their religion or politcal beliefs to cause you harm, it is still the person who did it, not the beliefs.

I think if you focus on the specifics of your experience, and not globalize it to include entire belief systems, you will likely not step outside the rules of the forum. For instance, if I was lied to by an accountant, even if I was lied to by 10 accountants, it wouldn't be true for me to say that all accountants are liars. So if you talk about the actual events of your life, without then taking those events and applying them to the belief system as a whole, you should be fine.

I also suspect that it might help you to think more about the specific people who have hurt you rather than considering yourself injured by grand ideas like politics or religion. After all, it is hard to fight against an abstract concept, but if you focus on the actual people, then you might find there are ways to deal with them

Anyway, that's my suggestion.

Good luck.
mj

[dexter]

>>seems like a crime forum where talk of systemic corruption and racketeering's' impacts on me are denied, negating my experience.

To take your analogy, a "crime forum" could be many things. If it was a research and educational forum, the topics you mention would be very appropriate. If it was a community forum with people who work in the criminal justice system, those topics might also likely be welcome. But if it was a forum for victims of criminal abuse, then discussions of corruption might trigger them severely when they are there looking for support and suggestions. It is likely that victims would want suggestions as to how to make the system work for them, not essays on why the system can't and won't be able to work for them because it is corrupt.

To take it to a more subtle level, maybe some victims of crime might need the type of support that includes exposing corruption to validate their fears and concerns. Others may need comforting and support and positive suggestions and advice. A person requiring the second might be horribly triggered by discussions about the first. For them, it would be "safe" to find a community that prohibits discussions about corruption, so that they can express themselves safely. People who find a valid need to discuss about corruption are best served finding a community that fits their needs, not trying to change the conservative forum to fit their needs at the expense of the comfort of others.

I do hope you find the support you need. I am not in any way trying to minimize the impact that these issues have for you, I'm only saying that this is likely not the right environment for you to discuss them. I do hope you can find some support here because this is a great place. If you find an environment that fits your needs you are still welcome here for supplemental support within our guidelines.

[dexter]

That is an excellent suggestion MJ, both for helping downsolong find help in these forums, and for coping with problems in general.

[downsolong]

This is so hard, I don't know. In many ways this seems an excellent and useful place for me. I have been quite impressed so far in my reading of the book Psychological Self-Help by Clayton E. Tucker-Ladd, on this site.
In my present state of mind I'm not sure weather I can grasp or accept what I seem to hear you saying about posts. I feel like a clumsy especially dimwitted bull in a china shop, so many seem so vulnerable. I see my problems as both about the playing field and the players; it's all integral to the game. My study of ecology taught me that the interactions of systems and their influence on individuals and groups are at least as important as the actions of the individuals themselves. I'm not sure I even know how to separate my concerns into different compartments, and would probably need help learning. As I've mentioned to a couple folks I'm a bit like an abused dog I'm afraid, bitter, defensive, and rather too ready to bite (I imagine so with some self knowledge anyway). I don't have a very good filter between my thoughts and words. I guess I can try to post stuff on issues to really get at answers but without someone to run them individually by first I'm afraid of the potential broken crystal problem. I'm not sure this clarifies or says anything really but this is an additional thought I had.-Downsolong

[downsolong]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
SSSSSSSHHHHHHaaattttttttttteeeeeerrrrrrrrreedddddddd!!!!!!
I don't know if I can do this.
WWWWHHHHAAAAAAAAAA!

[Wants2Fly]

I feel so badly for you. Are you seeing a therapist? What can we do to help? ((((((((beendownsolong)))))))

[snowflake_48888]

((((((((((((((((((((downsolong))))))))))))))))))))

[downsolong]

Thanks, Snowflake and Wants2fly,
I'm fine,though I did get misty for a second or two seeing your posts here. I just kind of flew into a high semi/panic/anxiety state after reading and answering the apparent fallout of my other post of this/yesterday morning. I worry about all you guys, and my blundering ahead, nearly oblivious to others' needs in my selfabsorbtion.
((((((((((((backatya)))))))))))) if ya wantem

Downsolong

[downsolong]

You too Ozzie (((((((((you)))))))))ifyawantem

[Wants2Fly]

I don't think it was blundering. I thought it was a thoughtful question that warranted thoughtful responses. It's too bad that it upset you. After reading some stuff about "hyper senstive" people who need downtime after too much sensory input (not necessarily just from reading a lot of commentary relating to oneself that triggers emotions, but going to a busy shopping mall, even going to a wonderful concert but getting overstimulated from it), I have a feeling that many people who get depressed are hyper-sensitives.

[(JD)]

Obviously nothing I said warranted any hugs. but at least your first fear didn't come true! (The one about your first post being your last???)

I have been trying to think about your dilemma... and really think that by notating the post with the trigger icon, and special subject wording... and beginning with generics... you will find that you can discuss what you really need to, and not freak anyone else out.

This is a good question for DocJohn.... about having a post "screened" by a mod BEFORE posting it... or even if a mod can replace a pulled post... like, being online with a mod and having them read your post first... blah blah blah it would be easiest to have a "screening" process maybe? But then, thinking more... by taking time to post... and thought... we all often screen our own posts and edit them...

but you are not alone ... "just" because of the rules... because many of the members have memories of traumas that they cannot bare wide open and discuss because of the triggering nature...

you do realize that you can PM members who won't be triggered and are willing to work with you... and can say virtually anything in a PM??? I, for one, would like to hear some of what you are dealing with... and perhaps the mods would do this for you too?

[snowflake_48888]

(((((((downsolong))))))))))) Keep talking, we are listening.......we want to help.

[downsolong]

Thanks everyone! I didn't mean to leave anyone out. You folks are quite the hoot. I don't feel worthy . Anyone I haven't managed to shock, insult, or alienate yet , just wait your turn. I think I've got cronic foot in mouth disease. ((((((((((everyone who could use em)))))))))))))

[downsolong]

I had a thought, look out, and prepare to be "SHOCKED" or bored. This could be posted several places but since I've started here, here goes.
I might be intellectualizing and rationalizing to protect myself and my present wants for whatever convoluted reason, I'm not sure. However, I wonder whether I and others have inadvertently, been set up, and/or are setting our selves up, by making a big complicated and loaded thing of these "rules". The concept of triggers, either triggering or being triggered by words etc, is sort of new to me. I came here to work on my depression. I had previously tried to believe that it's what we think of what others say and do that controls our emotions, not what's said and done. This is of course complicated by the issues of, verbal abuse, etc. but might not the "RULES" tend to hyper-sensitize some of us to the idea that we might "trigger" someone, while hyper-sensitizing others to be "triggered"? -downsolong

'Just because you're hypersensitive doesn't mean the situation doesn't make it worse'

[(JD)]

aw gee down... some weeks the only time I open my mouth is to change feet...

[downsolong]

Up date-Hi all My emotions seem to roil with nearly every reply to my posts. I like to think, on occasion, that I've developed a logic based thick skin to allow me to evaluate what the world sends my way but my armor seems all chinks most of the time in reality. I've been rather hurting for about a week, after briefly rebalancing from my anxiety trip just previous, and not sure what got to me.
The spam and tofu online incident was a fun time I was happy and hopeful for a few solid hours, I almost had joy enough to risk adding something. Thanks for the lightening chuckles guys, hope I can return the favor sometime.
Reading each considered reply I seem to get flooded with conflicting thoughts: Thanks, this is just wrong, this will never work, I should fire back a from the hip a reflex response, no a carefully considered reasonable response, no maybe they're right, they're completely right and I'm just rationalizing, I don't have the energy for this, I know I'm right, I must be wrong, I spent two days coming up with a good reply and now I've changed my mind and have to rethink the whole thing, I feel completely fettered here, maybe it's a good exercise for me, it's too inefficient to ever get anywhere, I'll distract myself for a bit with other's problems until I feel up to it, I'm distracting myself instead of facing it, I need the distraction to regroup, I don't know of any place else, that would be giving up again, I'm out of here, They definitely don't want me to just spit it out, I can't organize the words, it's too complicated and explosively angry anyway, ...endlessly vary, and repeat. Sheesh!
Sorry that's just my week's lame turmoil update...I'm feeling a bit better now. A couple of good nights sleep seem to do wonders for me.
So...this boring waste of time mind muddle to be continued...
...whenever, take care-Downsolong

"For every complex problem, there is a simple answer--and it is wrong!"
-Mark Twain

[downsolong]

I almost just posted an angry diatribe that I still want to that I don't know or even care about it's appropriateness. I need some way or place to GREEN RAGE before I explode. <font color="green"> </font> I don't know which moderator to pm about my posts as there seem to be potential conflict or trust problems with all.

[downsolong]

It's not about you guys' replies they've been great and appreciated. I'm just having a bit of a tough time thinking straight at the moment. Not enough sleep again probably. Till later Down,tc

[LadyDragus]

<font color="purple"> You are correct. You have to be able to make up your own mind on what triggers you, and what does not tirgger you. I do agree with you on some of what has been said in this theard, but I am on of the quiet ones on the fourm now.. I used to be a very outspoken person on here, Trust me, I used to post till i was a blue dragon, but not anymore for some of the same reasons you are not wanting to "stay" or "post" But let me say one thing, Feel safe here, in knowing that you can talk to ohters about your problem's and it will stay on here. No one will try to hurt you in any way.
I am an old member persay, and I have been on here and used to be really good at helping others, and I hope my ramblings can help you to understand post, stay and just understand some topics are better left to talk around the bush persay, instead of just coming out and saying excatly what has happend tend to say, " i have been hurt by "relgion" I have been abused by it, say something along these lines== relgion has hurt me in the past How can I talk about it? How can I dicsuss it with all of you and not offend any of you???
That is my best advice that way Doc John would understand what you are asking, and if all elese fails ask him, frist, he is the main person who runs this site.. He is the one who makes it what it is..
We would not all be here if it was not for Doc. </font>