can't keep on like this.

We're all here for you, and though it may not feel like it, you are not alone. I know what you mean about an endless struggle against depression, trying to find a relief. I've been fighting it for 13 years...starting when my best friend died when I was five, then my abusive mother, then other stuff I won't go into. Remember that happiness is possible. Other people have it, so you can too. Don't let the depression beat you down without a fight. You've survived this for 15 years, don't let it beat you now.

I just wanted to add something else. If you read my signature it says what my life is to me. I know I live in darkness but that's home. Some people feel like I live a sad life but in my short 35 year existence I have lived lifetimes of pain and suffering and loss. But I am no longer afraid of those feelings, they make my life rich. They are a part of who I and many people are. It's home to me and I can find peace even in this darkness. It reminds me I am alive. It feeds my music, my writing, all my artistic endeavors. I am not a victim to it. It's doesn't scare me anymore. It's like a cold winter nights breeze that burns my lungs when I breath in. It's a scalding hot shower that makes my skin tender. Sometimes it's more then that, but I make it through those times when it hurts me. I have moments and days and sometimes, when I am lucky months of happiness, but I know that the darkness returns and I am prepared for those times. I know they are a part of who I am and sometimes when I get there I am thankful because it reminds me I am human, and being depressed is okay now. I hope you to can come to terms with your downs, the melancholy, the morose.

((Tao))
Will you slow down and walk with me?
All we have to do is take it ten minutes at a time...let go of the coming days and nights. We'll deal with them when they arrive; perhaps they will be easier than now.

So many people care about you, Tao.
We are family. We carry each other until our hope and our strength return to us.
For every one of us who are in a painful and dark place, there are ten others able to stand with us...

We're standing with you,

Cap

i can't do this, i can't and won't come to terms with living this pathetic non-life. i don't have happiness, all i have is pain, and struggle, and dumb little computer distractions. i can't even be creative anymore, that left with the meds-induced mania, all i do is stare at my stuff and wish i could do something with it. that mania was the only "happiness" i've had since 2002, when i thought i still had hope, and it was fake happiness. the depression and hopelessness is so bad i can't do anything consistently anymore - barely getting through school if i'm getting through at all, can't work, can't even keep stuff up around the house or figure out bills and crap. i've tried everything and there's no way out.

you can switch meds. I know you've done that so many times before, but if they're stopping creativity you can say you need a switch. That's one thing you can still try, one source of hope.

I hate when I'm so down all I have is computer distractions too. Stupid clicking of dragons even just x.x It's a hobby, when a hobby becomes what you are reduced to life seems pointless, if that's what you're saying. Doesn't mean you won't be able to. I know my case is different, I know I have not been struggling as long.... but there were long periods of time in the past few months where all I could/would do in a day was cut, go all weird in my mind like a different person acting like a kid or some icy kind of creature I didn't know, punch myself, whack myself with coat hangers, yell at my boyfriend, and do clickie things on the computer. Less than meaningless. I'm not better. I'm still there but, I've gotten JUST ENOUGH better that I can see what I'm going for again. I couldn't then.
Please believe you can find that too. I know it's been a long time. You need to change something - meds - therapy - something. I know it's hard. Please, there are still things that can change you back into a happy person.

you said:first, you're still IN school that's better than I can say. they put me on a medical leave cuz of depression. You're functional enough to continue school. not what you want but it's something.
second: figuring out bills? I'm about the same age as you and if I had to deal like crap like bills I'd be going nuts too.
third: when I get upset I lose track of chores too. My boyfriend does not have severe depression, you should see HIS place when he gets busy with work and iI'm not around (can you even walk through it???)

most importantly: you've tried tons. But there is more to try. You might hate me for saying this because you've put everything you had into everything you've tried. But there is more. Iknow you don't want to try and it's easier to give up and you want to more than anything right now.
But don't say you've tried everything. Because there IS more you can try. And therefore there IS still hope even though you can't see it yet.

I hope I haven't offended, I hope I made sense, and above all I hope you'll be able to start getting better

the meds didn't take away my creativity, the depression did. i'd never been that creative before the mania because of the depression.
i don't have any more treatment options, i've been through everything available here.

I'm curious, how many T's have you had, have you been going to the same Pdoc?

4 ts, 3 counselors, 5 case managers, 2 regular p-docs and a bunch in hospitals including 2 i saw regularly because of how often i was in there.

"i can't do this, i can't and won't come to terms with living this pathetic non-life."

Heck, Tao, I wouldn't either...
A really, really Big Sign that I need to make some changes whether I want to or not.
Is it easy? Nope
Does it stink? big time
Involve being willing to hold on to others? Very Big Yes
Trust Issues? Oh yeah...

This old broad is going to be nosy now because I'm truly not familiar with;
are you on meds? which ones? dosages/side effects may be wreaking havoc on your mind and body

are you eating decent food? people tend to think the ribs of malnourished folks show--and they do, but it doesn't always present itself that way. thinking can be very messed up.

sleep pattern? speaks for itself. naps help, but the last I read about it is a full 7-8 hours sleep is the most beneficial. I tend to sleep 3-4 hours, up 2-3, sleep 2-3. Better than nothing but it is not restorative sleep

PM me or tell me to take a hike

But please consider this; There are "outside" things that are possibly affecting you while you are thinking it's you doing something wrong...
Feeling desperate, overwhelmed, and trapped are feelings I know all too well.
I also know that as much as I did not want to do any damn thing, it was absolutely necessary for me to make some movement forward and away from that seductive abyss.

Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
~~Robert Gallagher~~

There were times when I crawled and there were times when the only thing moving forward was my bird finger...

Cap

sorry--fingers not typing fast enough to keep up with replies...

currently wellbutrin xl and celexa, both full dosage. no known side-effects.

i try to eat as healthy as i can, and as little as i can. i'd probably qualify for an ednos dx. i regularly eat about 1/3 the regular diet for someone my age/size. less if i can manage to function without it. i'm determined to lose weight, regular diet and exercise only maintained where i was (obese), so i'm doing this and have lost 20 lbs, and intend to keep doing it until(if) i'm content. yeah, i know, bad idea.

normally i sleep ok, 7-8 hours. last four nights i've had insomnia.

no sleep for four nights is sleep deprivation albeit the beginning

I'm checking my PDR--what dose of Celexa? Brand or generic? when do you take it? length of time on present dose?
any OTC drugs you take on a regular basis? herbs/supplements?

Whew--I had my hiking boots ready

Tao, I'm researching about the Celexa so it will take me a few minutes
Cap

30mg, in morning, generic. i also take generic glucophage 500mg 2x/day, 800mg ibuprofin as needed, and a calcium/vitamin d supplement.

thanks...that helps

Cap

Tao, one more quick question
did your doc prescribe the Celexa to be taken in the morning?
do you take it at the same time as the wellbutrin?

are you diabetic re glucophage? usual glucose level fairly stable?

celexa, yes. with wellbutrin. and i forgot to answer earlier that i've been on wellbutrin almost 3mo, celexa almost 2. i'm pre-diabetic, and almost never measure glucose. when i get it tested it's normal.

(((((((((((((((((( Tao )))))))))))))))))))

Ok, here's some of what I found
**just my experience/just my opinion**

Celexa is almost always prescribed as an evening/hs dose.
The Wellbutrin XL is usually morning because of its' possible stimulate affect.

With both drugs, you are still in the early stages...this may be causing mood swings, agitation, irritability.
It might be a good idea to check in with your physician.

And Wellbutrin is to be used with caution with any eating disorder as well as any oral diabetic agents.

You may not be getting enough nourishment from what you are eating--I understand since I did the same thing when I lost my weight.
If you can spread out the times when you are eating and what you are eating, there is a better chance of regulating your glucose level...
Do you have access to the food guidelines? Many people don't realize that our bodies do not need as much food as we put on our plates--but we do need the right balance of protein, carbs, and fat.
I'm sure you know that your glucose level can affect your mood.

Tao, in no way is this to take the place of your physician's treatment protocol. I am no longer an active professional...

These are small changes you can make that can help your mood. Please check in with your physician. At minimum, she/he needs to know what's happening.

Honestly? I think there's something going on between the meds and little food...jmo.
When I was losing excess baggage, my meds had to be adjusted based on my lower weight. 20 pounds is good, but if you are losing it too quickly it will make you weak.

Lots to think about...
Cap

yeah, except this is how i always feel, the eating thing is recent. i'm not losing it very quickly either, unfortunately. :-/
i asked to try wellbutrin because it can have a side effect of weight loss, instead of just weight gain like so many other ad's...
i'm really conscious of nutrition since i've been watching intake 14 years since my pre-diabetes dx. i pick the healthiest stuff i can... which isn't always that healthy, but it's just what i have available...

((Tao))

The slow weight loss may be because your body has gone into "starvation mode." For lack of better wording, our bodies go into a state of hibernation in order to conserve energy/life.
It's a fine balance to give the body what it wants and needs...
In severe cases muscle mass will be used by the body; especially the heart muscle.

I'm glad you are eating as healthfully as you can...

How would you feel about asking your physician about taking the Celexa at bedtime? Or just doing it and letting her/him know about it?
It may help you get some sleep, Tao.

My instinct is still telling me that something is not working well with your meds...
BTW, have you had your thyroid levels checked recently?
It's one test that led me to feeling better, not fantastic but better. I felt I was nearer to the top of my abyss.

Peace and Power to you Tao,
Cap

the power thing is my way of hoping the reader will somehow feel empowered even if it's just a tiny bit.

i can try taking it at night, i'm just thinking they put me on it in the morning so it'd last through the day... i heard it can cause sleepiness, but haven't had a problem with that.

my meds have never worked well... this pit isn't new to these ones...

i don't know when it was last checked, do they run it through blood tests when in the psych unit? because then it was last month. otherwise i don't know.

Good morning, Tao, and a Better New Year To You...

Jme, but everyone I know takes their Celexa at night because of the sleepiness, and it seems to be more effective for some reason.
Wellbutrin, of course, can stimulate you...so it may be canceling the sleepiness.

Re the psych unit and blood work. Some do and some don't--it depends on the admitting physician or the policy of the facility.
You can request the results from your physician and find out if it was done.

Tao, you mentioned the calcium/Vitamin D supplement...do you take a general multi suitable for your age? By that I mean that the one I take is "iron free" due to my age. (No cycles)
With your strict intake of food, you may not be getting all the vitamins you need and this can affect your mood, also.
Folate--Vit B-12--deficiency can contribute to low moods. It's not necessary to take a super dose, either. The dose in a regular multi is sufficient when you combine it with folate rich food.

Tao, because meds haven't worked for you before doesn't mean none of them will do the job. When you take into consideration the many things that can affect their absorbency, it presents a different picture.
Sometimes the smallest things can affect it.

You are in my thoughts,
Cap

thanks capp...

i just want this to end. i'm so tired of messing around with stuff to try to make something work... i just want to give in and forget all this crap.

is it really so awful to become a statistic? i don't see where life's worth fighting for...

(((((( Tao ))))))

Ok, I'm going to flip the coin over now, Capp has gone through the meds with you. I'm going to ask you about therapy. You said you have had 4 T's in the past. Do you have a T now, if not why not?

Have you ever done any CBT? Cognitive behavioural therapy is very good at changing negative thoughts into positive thoughts, catching the thoughts and reframing it.

Have you ever looked back to find out the reasons why you feel the way you do? Transactional analysis is very useful for a deeper understanding of yourself and how to be at peace with yourself.

Also look at whether there is anything that can be changed in your life or environment. Where you live. Your job. Friendships.

Are you being abused or in an abusive relationship. Many mental health problems can be due to past abuse or continual abuse. Therapy would be very helpful for this. If you have been abused or are being abused you need to talk about it. Sometimes it can be due to trauma in the past that has been tucked away and needs to be dealt with.

We care about you Tao.

yes, i'm seeing a t at my university now.

done cbt and dbt.

yes, i know what caused my problems - isolation, abusive peers, well-meaning but floundering parents, and probably a chemical predisposition. i'm pretty darn sure i have as too, which would explain them all the more.

i make about $90 once a month, if there's work that month. i live free with my parents. i go to college and am supposed to graduate this spring if i can make up my incompletes, this next semester's work and get my stuff approved by my advisor who doesn't seem to exist - at which point i won't be able to see my t or any other since i have no insurance. i also have no prospects at a job, live in one of the worst job markets in the country, have no resources to move, have a poor work record, very limited transportation, limiting chronic back pain, and a strong tendency to be mentally unstable. i'm pretty stuck. and i have no friendships, i've never been able to connect with people in person.

i'm not being abused.

thank you...

Thank you for your reply Tao.

So you could be stressed out with worrying about whether you will catch up with the work at Uni and graduate in the spring. I'm glad you have a T at the Uni, maybe they will help you with ways to cope and strategies you can use to get through the next few months. You know your life could change for the better once you graduate. Also your current T may be able to point you in the right direction for a T that takes sliding scale. I'm not in the USA so I'm not sure how it works over there but therapy could be sorted out for you.

Once you graduate you may find that ideal job and be able to move out and have your own place.

I can see that your life can improve. You are feeling like this is the end right now but things can get better. Hang in there!