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Old Jun 21, 2011, 10:44 PM
goodneighbor goodneighbor is offline
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Dissociative Identity Disorder Symptoms (the new name for Multiple Personality Disorder)

Individual with dissociative identity disorder describe a wide variety of symptoms, some of them resemble other mental disorders. Approximately 70 percent of the patients diagnosed with DID meet the DMS-IV diagnostic criteria for posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), both conditions being conceptualized as trauma-related disorders. The posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms exhibited by patients with DID include: intrusive symptoms, hyperarousal, and avoidance and numbing symptoms.

Approximately 40 to 60 percent of the DID patients meet the diagnostic criteria of somatoform pain disorder or conversion disorder due to the presences of multiple types of psychophysiological and somatoform (bodily) symptoms. Some of the somatoform symptoms present in patients with DID include: seizure-like episodes, headaches, abdominal, musculoskeletal, and pelvic pain, asthma and breathing problems.

Patients with DID also meet the criteria of mood disorders, especially depression. Some of the symptoms that resemble mood disorders, include: mood swings, depressed mood, dysphoria (mood state characterized by sadness, anxiety, irritability, or restlessness), anhedonia (inability to experience pleasure), suicide attempts and suicidal thoughts, self-mutilation, helpless, hopeless, and guilt feelings, or sleeping problems. Some of the DID symptoms can resemble traits of obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) or obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) such as: obsessive counting, singing, arranging, checking, or washing. (4)

The main four symptoms of dissociative identity disorder are:

1. Amnesia. A very common manifestation of the disorder is amnesia or loss of time usually observed by those around the person. Patients with DID experience frequent memory gaps in personal history (as extreme as an overall loss of biographical memory for extended periods of time during childhood, adolescence, or adulthood years), past events (they can forget what had happened during a certain period of time such as 3 years in a row) or recent events (they find items in their house that they do not remember purchasing, written notes with a different handwriting than their, or evidence of activities they don't remember engaging in). Some experts hypothesis that amnesia might be possible due to the fact that passive identities tend to have more constricted memories, while the more hostile, controlling, or protective identities have more complete memories. "An identity that is not in control may nonetheless gain access to consciousness." (2)

Approximately, 98 percent of patients with DID display amnesia (from mild to severe forms) when an alternate personality surfaces. When the host personality takes charge, the time spent under the control of other alters is either completely lost to memory, or only remembered as confusing bits and pieces.

2. Depersonalization is a dissociation symptom characterized by an alteration in the perception or experience of self, in which the patient either feels that their body is unreal, changing or dissolving, or detached from it, similar with an outside observer of their own mental processes or body while having no control over the situation.

3. Derealization is also a dissociation symptom in which the external world is perceive as strange or unreal.

4. Identity disturbances is one of the most distinct symptoms of dissociative identity disorder. Individuals with DID usually have a main personality and several alters that take charge in different situations. The alternate identities "are intrapsychic entities that have a sense of self, have an emotional repertoire, and can process information." (9) Some of the alters handle and act out emotions the patient cannot deal with such as rage or terror, others (called internal self helpers) watch what is going on and give advice, or act as friends. Some alters can know, observe, and interact with one another in an extremely elaborated inner world, while others may not be aware of the existence of some alters. When they interact with one another, the patient can report hearing inner conversations which are usually diagnosed as auditory hallucinations. However, DID auditory hallucinations differ from schizophrenia auditory hallucinations due to their distinct qualities. In DID, the voices are perceived to be heard internally in the brain, while in schizophrenia the voices are perceived to come from outside the brain.
Thanks for this!
dawnhopeful, Korin

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  #2  
Old Jun 22, 2011, 08:37 AM
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amandalouise amandalouise is offline
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Originally Posted by goodneighbor View Post

Dissociative Identity Disorder Symptoms (the new name for Multiple Personality Disorder)

Individual with dissociative identity disorder describe a wide variety of symptoms, some of them resemble other mental disorders. Approximately 70 percent of the patients diagnosed with DID meet the DMS-IV diagnostic criteria for posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), both conditions being conceptualized as trauma-related disorders. The posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms exhibited by patients with DID include: intrusive symptoms, hyperarousal, and avoidance and numbing symptoms.

Approximately 40 to 60 percent of the DID patients meet the diagnostic criteria of somatoform pain disorder or conversion disorder due to the presences of multiple types of psychophysiological and somatoform (bodily) symptoms. Some of the somatoform symptoms present in patients with DID include: seizure-like episodes, headaches, abdominal, musculoskeletal, and pelvic pain, asthma and breathing problems.

Patients with DID also meet the criteria of mood disorders, especially depression. Some of the symptoms that resemble mood disorders, include: mood swings, depressed mood, dysphoria (mood state characterized by sadness, anxiety, irritability, or restlessness), anhedonia (inability to experience pleasure), suicide attempts and suicidal thoughts, self-mutilation, helpless, hopeless, and guilt feelings, or sleeping problems. Some of the DID symptoms can resemble traits of obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) or obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) such as: obsessive counting, singing, arranging, checking, or washing. (4)

The main four symptoms of dissociative identity disorder are:

1. Amnesia. A very common manifestation of the disorder is amnesia or loss of time usually observed by those around the person. Patients with DID experience frequent memory gaps in personal history (as extreme as an overall loss of biographical memory for extended periods of time during childhood, adolescence, or adulthood years), past events (they can forget what had happened during a certain period of time such as 3 years in a row) or recent events (they find items in their house that they do not remember purchasing, written notes with a different handwriting than their, or evidence of activities they don't remember engaging in). Some experts hypothesis that amnesia might be possible due to the fact that passive identities tend to have more constricted memories, while the more hostile, controlling, or protective identities have more complete memories. "An identity that is not in control may nonetheless gain access to consciousness." (2)

Approximately, 98 percent of patients with DID display amnesia (from mild to severe forms) when an alternate personality surfaces. When the host personality takes charge, the time spent under the control of other alters is either completely lost to memory, or only remembered as confusing bits and pieces.

2. Depersonalization is a dissociation symptom characterized by an alteration in the perception or experience of self, in which the patient either feels that their body is unreal, changing or dissolving, or detached from it, similar with an outside observer of their own mental processes or body while having no control over the situation.

3. Derealization is also a dissociation symptom in which the external world is perceive as strange or unreal.

4. Identity disturbances is one of the most distinct symptoms of dissociative identity disorder. Individuals with DID usually have a main personality and several alters that take charge in different situations. The alternate identities "are intrapsychic entities that have a sense of self, have an emotional repertoire, and can process information." (9) Some of the alters handle and act out emotions the patient cannot deal with such as rage or terror, others (called internal self helpers) watch what is going on and give advice, or act as friends. Some alters can know, observe, and interact with one another in an extremely elaborated inner world, while others may not be aware of the existence of some alters. When they interact with one another, the patient can report hearing inner conversations which are usually diagnosed as auditory hallucinations. However, DID auditory hallucinations differ from schizophrenia auditory hallucinations due to their distinct qualities. In DID, the voices are perceived to be heard internally in the brain, while in schizophrenia the voices are perceived to come from outside the brain.
Thanks for the clinical write up. if Im not mistaken your information comes from http://www.omnimedicalsearch.com/con...r-symptoms.htm

Are you a college psych student? If so you have a great start for your thesis or term paper but theres more to being DID then this and some of your information is outdated or different than what is believed depending on location, cultural beliefs and treatment providers..

For example under amnesia you state it is observed by people around the dissociative person that notice, here in the USA it is now known and believed that the amnesia and other things like switching into and out of alters are rarely if ever noticed by other people outside of the dissociative person.. it is the person with DID their self that recognize they have lost time from becoming aware that the conversation is different than they last remembered it to be, or they become aware doing different things than they remember they were in the process of doing or they find that the day, week, month or year is different than what they last remembered it to be. Friends, family members co workers and others usually notice nothing wrong. Outside of the dissociative person life continues on like normal.

People outside the dissociative rarely recognize the switching from alter to alter unless under extreme cases. Rarely are dissociative’s with DID to the extreme you see on television or in movies.

Here in the USA –

Depersonalization is a - dissociative disorder - not a symptom. Symptoms of depersonalization are things such as feeling spacey, feeling numb, feeling like everything is far away, feeling like their body parts do not belong to them.

Derealization is not a symptom it is a dissociative disorder. the symptoms if this dissociative disorder are feeling disconnected, like they don’t fit in with the world around them, feeling like the world around them is not real, feeling disconnected from people places and things around them.

Under identity you or this article you are quoting calls the main person a personality, here in the USA the main person is not considered to be a “personality”. They are considered to be the “host” for the alternate personalities to reside with in.

Here finding things around the house, not remembering things and all that is not actually how to tell when a person has alters. Those things are the result of having alters.

Dissociatives who have co consciousness know they have alters because they are able to communicate with their alters so they know they are there. But even then they believe they are normal and everyone is this way.
Dissociatives without co consciousness do not know they have alters. They believe they are perfectly normal and everyone forgets things.

Mental health providers in the USA don’t go by things like intrusive thoughts, hyperarousal, numbing, headaches and all that you found within this article for diagnosing whether or not someone has alters.

We rely upon actual psychiatric evaluations that include oral questions and an hour or two long interview session with a psychiatrist where conversations with at least two or more alter. These alters must fit the diagnostic criteria set down by the American psychiatric association in the DSM IV TR that says an alternate personalities is one that recurrently take control of the body, their in laymans terms “way of being” remains consistent each and every time we talk with them.

we do this because all those things you quoted can be any other mental and physical health problem, and also any of those things ca appear in many alters that may share symptoms, memories.

For diagnosing DID and whether a person has alters we have to look for the individuality factors between host and alters. The host may exhibit all or some of those things but each alter has their own way of being that is fixed and unchange able.

We also have to look at the host’s full medical and mental history because the diagnostics say these fixed alters we look for must not be there because of certain parameters like drugs and alcohol, seizure disorders and any other medical or mental disorder / problem. For example numbing happens with depression, PTSD, schizophrenics, drug use, alcohol use seizure disorders, so that problem gets wiped out in the diagnostics for DID but only a person with DID can switch more than a couple times into an alter that has their own consistent way of being.

my point is if your write up is for a paper my suggestion is take into consideration your listeners/readers may not be from the same background, same location and under the same beliefs you or this article makes.

the same goes for people who are here on psych central.. whats in this article may be true where you are but for where I am - my location and what I was taught in my college and training to be a therapist, and how the disorder was explained to be by my treatment providers is different than what this article states.

nobody has to be exactly like this article states.
Thanks for this!
anderson, Hunny, kalisha36, Korin
  #3  
Old Jun 22, 2011, 09:15 AM
Anonymous29403
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I can relate, unfortunately. Thanks for the DSM definition. I have heard that the new DSM V that comes out this fall, I think, is going to change the name of this diagnosis again.

My prescribing doctor believes this is all stemming from PTSD, due to all the other symptoms that occur.
Thanks for this!
anderson
  #4  
Old Jun 22, 2011, 12:33 PM
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Porcelain_doll_2004 Porcelain_doll_2004 is offline
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Thanks for this
Thanks for this!
anderson, Hunny
  #5  
Old Jun 23, 2011, 10:46 AM
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Korin Korin is offline
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My own personal view is that DID stems from child abuse and neglect in the formative years. And the realisation of the extent of the DID results in PTSD. And with the struggle to cope comes depression and anxiety.

Your thoughts on this?
Thanks for this!
anderson, Hunny
  #6  
Old Jun 23, 2011, 04:15 PM
Anonymous29403
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Korin ~ You said this well excellent explanation very impressed !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korin View Post
My own personal view is that DID stems from child abuse and neglect in the formative years. And the realisation of the extent of the DID results in PTSD. And with the struggle to cope comes depression and anxiety.

Your thoughts on this?
Thanks for this!
anderson, Hunny, Korin
  #7  
Old Jun 23, 2011, 09:58 PM
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CesarioRose CesarioRose is offline
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Korin has a good picture and an excellent example. I can only really speak for my self as I am the only person, in real life, which i've met that is, who has DID. But for me, the formation of other members of the system were indeed born during the formative years, and one or two in the teens. Although a long standing history of C-PTSD elements. The cost of living in it today causes a lot of anxiety and panic.

But Korin is exactly right.
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DID, and an HSP.
Thanks for this!
Hunny, Korin
  #8  
Old Jun 23, 2011, 11:51 PM
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amandalouise amandalouise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korin View Post
My own personal view is that DID stems from child abuse and neglect in the formative years. And the realisation of the extent of the DID results in PTSD. And with the struggle to cope comes depression and anxiety.

Your thoughts on this?
my personal view yes DID is caused by abuse

But

I dont believe its the realization of the extent of the DID results in PTSD.

if it did then those that have PTSD but not DID would not have PTSD. I also know some DID people that do not have PTSD (anxiety, nightmares, flashbacks, panic attacks, reliving trauma....) symptoms.

I (and the mental health community here) believe PTSD is not caused by a disorder such as depression, Dissociative disorders, schizophrenia bipolar...

here we believe Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is caused by going through something traumatic and that trauma does not have to be abuse related..

examples of things that can cause PTSD
wars
natural occurring events like earthquakes, tornado's hurricanes
stress
abuse / attacks
accidents

the list goes on..

here yes sometimes people who find out they have a mental disorder or physical health problem they do go through the process of adjusting like going through a phase of denial, a phase of anxiety / reality of their problem, a phase of searching for the cure and finally a phase of acceptance. but I and the mental health community dont consider that to be PTSD.

here we dont consider this period of adjustment when being diagnosed and reactions from being diagnosed PTSD or any other mental disorder.

we just call that the normal process a person mentally disordered or not, (and regardless of what mental disorder they have if they have on) goes through when getting diagnosed with medical and mental disorders.

Thanks for this!
anderson, CesarioRose, Hunny, Korin
  #9  
Old Jun 25, 2011, 02:15 AM
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sunkiss sunkiss is offline
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i'm only just coming to terms with-and accepting-that i possibly have a family of alters within. originally there were only two: a mother figure who used to chastise me and on two occasions over 20 years, simply hounded and goaded me, until i obeyed her, and tried to suicide.
however now having experienced a knife attack, multiple rapes, car accident - i have isolated, left my job etc. basically my t has suggested that i do have manifestations of dissociation mainly due to overwhelming stress. like anyone with this, he says it is a fragmentation of the ego to which i respond with a day-night reversal of sleep, ambivalence towards the partner who threatened me with a carving knife. i only shop at night-i find too many people over stimulating, i choose to forget-almost making excuses for my attacker; i sleep downstairs with the lights on so i have escape exits; i go into tears or dreamy behaviour when i just stare at a carving knife in a shop; and panic if i see a child with a knife innocently cutting a birthday cake. when i explode, i can't remember anything after the emotional level gets too high-i am viscious/cutting and swear i believe to the max. i can't remember what happened say yesterday;need a diary etc i'm scared-constantly of the nasty mother figure who only sort of talks to me when i've had a long sleep and no medication; i refuse to be sedated- i feel i need to stay in control. i don't drink or use illicit.
i apologize for my extended response. this is my first time here, i have never really thought of myself as having DID. ....but now? on social network sites, i have 10 people-a family who are all versions of me and i won't allow friends. Is this DID? how can you tell? only the tests and a psychiatrist-spoken of by amandalouise refers to the testing.
i am frightened. my t-apart from medns-is treating me behaviourally, attempting me to take control and responsibility for my own inappropriate anger and aggression.
I have lived like this now for 3-4 years-i used to be reasonably high-functioning. i'm scared a bit tired and i am very okay with leaving this group if i don' 'fit'-again sorry for taking up so much space.
blessings to anyone who has been listening,

sunkiss

Last edited by FooZe; Jun 25, 2011 at 11:13 PM. Reason: added trigger icon
Thanks for this!
anderson, Korin
  #10  
Old Jun 25, 2011, 08:58 AM
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Korin Korin is offline
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amandalouise,

Thank you for making things so clear around here.

I'm not saying PTSD is caused by a disorder. I'm saying the realisation of a disorder and it's cause could result in PTSD. I'm told this is what happened in my case. If that's wrong, I would certainly like to explore it some more as I like and trust my psych-doc.

I'm also aware that PTSD can be the result of many different types of trauma including that which soldiers deal with. I was married to one for twenty years.

Also in an effort to make myself clearer, I struggled with this for a long time before being diagnosed. Perhaps that resulted in PTSD.

Your thoughts?
Thanks for this!
amandalouise
  #11  
Old Jun 25, 2011, 10:10 AM
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One of the foremost authorities in DID is at the Sheppard Pratt Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. His name is Richard Lowenstein, he's the Medical Director for this trauma center and developed one of the models used today for grounding techniques throughout the United States in all the better know trauma hospitals. The clinicians that worked and studied under him have published several books which can be found at Sidran.org.

Dr. Lowenstein was my attending physician while I stayed as inpatient at Sheppard Pratt. He informed me that under PTSD is a sub-category for dissociative disorder, which is where he classified me. As well, my psychiatrist, who works with the researchers at National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Maryland, has diagnosed me with PTSD/ dissociative disorder not otherwise specified (DDNOS). There is no DSM for chronic PTSD under the DSM-IV. To go further, the head of Neurology at Georgetown Hospital also classified me as having a dissociative disorder under PTSD. These are three well known doctors/researchers with proven published research over the past 30+ years.

I want to say here that there is a broad range of what dissociative disorders are. To say here in this forum that "I (and the mental health community here) believe....." is making a statement that is very misleading. It's taking the members down a very confusing path and DID/DDNOS is very confusing to begin with. I have decided to copy from three sources and print them here for anyone to discern for themselves. It's great we have this forum to learn from. But we all have to make decisions for ourselves and consult with our prescribing doctors and not rely exclusively what is said in forums in general.

This is from Sidran.org, as this was adapted from DSM-IV, p. 427-429 which states that dissociative disorders are classified under PTSD:

posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) An anxiety disorder based on how an individual responds to a traumatic event. According to DSM-IV, the following criteria must be met, see the last bulleted item:

• The person has experienced a traumatic event that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others, and the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror
• The traumatic event is re-experienced in specific ways such as recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections or dreams of the event
• Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma or numbing of general responsiveness
• Persistent symptoms of increased arousal, such as hypervigilance or irritability
• Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than one month
• The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in functioning.
PTSD may be acute, chronic, or with delayed onset. Many individuals with DID (MPD) also have PTSD. The literature sometimes describes DID(MPD) as complex and/or chronic PTSD. Adapted from DSM-IV, p. 427-429.

http://www.sidran.org/sub.cfm?contentID=38&sectionid=4

Under the DSM-IV for PTSD 309.81 B(3) as classified under Anxiety Disorders:
(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes.

Under the DSM-IV for DID 300.14:
A. The presence of two or more distinct identities or personality states (each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self).
B. At least two of these identities or personality states recurrently take control of the person's behavior.
C. Inability to recall important personal information that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
D. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., blackouts or chaotic behavior during Alcohol Intoxication) or a general medical condition (e.g., complex partial seizures). Note: In children, the symptoms are not attributable to imaginary playmates or other fantasy play.

I find this all very interesting. For me, I wonder if DID or DDNOS is very different, just my experience. I live with DDNOS but at times when I dissociate I have to wish I was able to observe what I am like and what I have to say during this process. I recognize afterwords that I did dissociate and I have to live with the damage or wreckage of what I said or did.

Last edited by Anonymous29403; Jun 25, 2011 at 01:02 PM.
Thanks for this!
Korin
  #12  
Old Jun 25, 2011, 06:54 PM
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amandalouise amandalouise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by June_Bug View Post
One of the foremost authorities in DID is at the Sheppard Pratt Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. His name is Richard Lowenstein, he's the Medical Director for this trauma center and developed one of the models used today for grounding techniques throughout the United States in all the better know trauma hospitals. The clinicians that worked and studied under him have published several books which can be found at Sidran.org.

Dr. Lowenstein was my attending physician while I stayed as inpatient at Sheppard Pratt. He informed me that under PTSD is a sub-category for dissociative disorder, which is where he classified me. As well, my psychiatrist, who works with the researchers at National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Maryland, has diagnosed me with PTSD/ dissociative disorder not otherwise specified (DDNOS). There is no DSM for chronic PTSD under the DSM-IV. To go further, the head of Neurology at Georgetown Hospital also classified me as having a dissociative disorder under PTSD. These are three well known doctors/researchers with proven published research over the past 30+ years.

I want to say here that there is a broad range of what dissociative disorders are. To say here in this forum that "I (and the mental health community here) believe....." is making a statement that is very misleading. It's taking the members down a very confusing path and DID/DDNOS is very confusing to begin with. I have decided to copy from three sources and print them here for anyone to discern for themselves. It's great we have this forum to learn from. But we all have to make decisions for ourselves and consult with our prescribing doctors and not rely exclusively what is said in forums in general.

This is from Sidran.org, as this was adapted from DSM-IV, p. 427-429 which states that dissociative disorders are classified under PTSD:

posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) An anxiety disorder based on how an individual responds to a traumatic event. According to DSM-IV, the following criteria must be met, see the last bulleted item:

• The person has experienced a traumatic event that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others, and the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror
• The traumatic event is re-experienced in specific ways such as recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections or dreams of the event
• Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma or numbing of general responsiveness
• Persistent symptoms of increased arousal, such as hypervigilance or irritability
• Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than one month
• The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in functioning.
PTSD may be acute, chronic, or with delayed onset. Many individuals with DID (MPD) also have PTSD. The literature sometimes describes DID(MPD) as complex and/or chronic PTSD. Adapted from DSM-IV, p. 427-429.

http://www.sidran.org/sub.cfm?contentID=38&sectionid=4

Under the DSM-IV for PTSD 309.81 B(3) as classified under Anxiety Disorders:
(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes.

Under the DSM-IV for DID 300.14:
A. The presence of two or more distinct identities or personality states (each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self).
B. At least two of these identities or personality states recurrently take control of the person's behavior.
C. Inability to recall important personal information that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
D. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., blackouts or chaotic behavior during Alcohol Intoxication) or a general medical condition (e.g., complex partial seizures). Note: In children, the symptoms are not attributable to imaginary playmates or other fantasy play.

I find this all very interesting. For me, I wonder if DID or DDNOS is very different, just my experience. I live with DDNOS but at times when I dissociate I have to wish I was able to observe what I am like and what I have to say during this process. I recognize afterwords that I did dissociate and I have to live with the damage or wreckage of what I said or did.
within this long post you stated the doctor told you "There is no DSM for chronic PTSD under the DSM-IV"

I wanted to let you know yes there is. the term "chronic" in psych terms means the problem is persistant and recurring. the DSM IV TR criterion includes in criterion E and F which states

"Criterion E: duration
Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in B, C, and D) is more than one month.

Criterion F: functional significance
The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Specify if:

Acute: if duration of symptoms is less than three months

Chronic: if duration of symptoms is three months or more

Specify if:

With or Without delay onset: Onset of symptoms at least six months after the stressor" http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/...iv-tr-ptsd.asp

I also wanted to clarify why I use the wording "the mental health community here believe" which you state in your post is misleading.

I would use other wording but this site does not allow for any other wording other than speaking in "I statements" meaning only speak for yourself and your location and your own mental health community beliefs.

I cannot speak for everyone around the world and every members mental health agencies and every locations rules.

Psych central moderators have told me this is a support website where we dont tell other members how things are "for everyone" so my postings must reflect only what I go through, only what I have been Taught, only what the mental health community in - my - location believes.

so when I post that kind of wording in my posts its at the direction and rules of the moderators, administrators and psych central rules for posting here by keeping things specifically related to only me, those I work for and those that I am governed under as a mental health provider for NY state.

Im sorry its upsetting to some that I keep wording my posts the way I do, Im just trying to follow the rules here.

Got to say it - I get asked a lot why I am still moderated and this is exactly why.

I remain under moderation for this exact reason that some may find the wording of my posts upsetting and frankly its online and world wide so theres no way I can please every member, theres no way I can avoid every members triggers,and because of the stereotypical /generalized reactions to a mental health provider being in online support groups. by remaining under moderation I and the administrating team of moderators and administrators can be assured my postings are worded correctly - before - they are placed on the boards.

Im sorry to anyone my posts are offending, seems to be misleading and upsetting, Theres nothing I can do about it unless this site decides to get rid of the requirement that we only speak for ourselves and our own work places and our own locations. should they decide to do that I will be more than willing to have my postings reflect what the sheppard pratt institute of baltamore maryland, or any other agency, state country where I dont live or work for believes.

Thanks for this!
Korin
  #13  
Old Jun 25, 2011, 07:03 PM
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amandalouise amandalouise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by June_Bug View Post
One of the foremost authorities in DID is at the Sheppard Pratt Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. His name is Richard Lowenstein, he's the Medical Director for this trauma center and developed one of the models used today for grounding techniques throughout the United States in all the better know trauma hospitals. The clinicians that worked and studied under him have published several books which can be found at Sidran.org.

Dr. Lowenstein was my attending physician while I stayed as inpatient at Sheppard Pratt. He informed me that under PTSD is a sub-category for dissociative disorder, which is where he classified me. As well, my psychiatrist, who works with the researchers at National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Maryland, has diagnosed me with PTSD/ dissociative disorder not otherwise specified (DDNOS). There is no DSM for chronic PTSD under the DSM-IV. To go further, the head of Neurology at Georgetown Hospital also classified me as having a dissociative disorder under PTSD. These are three well known doctors/researchers with proven published research over the past 30+ years.

I want to say here that there is a broad range of what dissociative disorders are. To say here in this forum that "I (and the mental health community here) believe....." is making a statement that is very misleading. It's taking the members down a very confusing path and DID/DDNOS is very confusing to begin with. I have decided to copy from three sources and print them here for anyone to discern for themselves. It's great we have this forum to learn from. But we all have to make decisions for ourselves and consult with our prescribing doctors and not rely exclusively what is said in forums in general.

This is from Sidran.org, as this was adapted from DSM-IV, p. 427-429 which states that dissociative disorders are classified under PTSD:

posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) An anxiety disorder based on how an individual responds to a traumatic event. According to DSM-IV, the following criteria must be met, see the last bulleted item:

• The person has experienced a traumatic event that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others, and the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror
• The traumatic event is re-experienced in specific ways such as recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections or dreams of the event
• Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma or numbing of general responsiveness
• Persistent symptoms of increased arousal, such as hypervigilance or irritability
• Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than one month
• The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in functioning.
PTSD may be acute, chronic, or with delayed onset. Many individuals with DID (MPD) also have PTSD. The literature sometimes describes DID(MPD) as complex and/or chronic PTSD. Adapted from DSM-IV, p. 427-429.

http://www.sidran.org/sub.cfm?contentID=38&sectionid=4

Under the DSM-IV for PTSD 309.81 B(3) as classified under Anxiety Disorders:
(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes.

Under the DSM-IV for DID 300.14:
A. The presence of two or more distinct identities or personality states (each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self).
B. At least two of these identities or personality states recurrently take control of the person's behavior.
C. Inability to recall important personal information that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
D. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., blackouts or chaotic behavior during Alcohol Intoxication) or a general medical condition (e.g., complex partial seizures). Note: In children, the symptoms are not attributable to imaginary playmates or other fantasy play.

I find this all very interesting. For me, I wonder if DID or DDNOS is very different, just my experience. I live with DDNOS but at times when I dissociate I have to wish I was able to observe what I am like and what I have to say during this process. I recognize afterwords that I did dissociate and I have to live with the damage or wreckage of what I said or did.
I also wanted to say but sent my post in for moderation before I thought of this...

Im not sure where it went, maybe in the resource thread I didnt go through it to see, but when I first came here there was a sticky thread about understanding what dissociative disorders were so that people could post all their resources they were finding about dissociative disorders. maybe you can post in there too so that everyone will know theres not one set way to be. that every agency, state and location has their own beliefs and own things they go by for mental disorders. over all I thought it was a really cool thread, lots of diversity and lots of good information.

Thanks for this!
Korin
  #14  
Old Jun 25, 2011, 07:27 PM
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amandalouise amandalouise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korin View Post
amandalouise,

Thank you for making things so clear around here.

I'm not saying PTSD is caused by a disorder. I'm saying the realisation of a disorder and it's cause could result in PTSD. I'm told this is what happened in my case. If that's wrong, I would certainly like to explore it some more as I like and trust my psych-doc.

I'm also aware that PTSD can be the result of many different types of trauma including that which soldiers deal with. I was married to one for twenty years.

Also in an effort to make myself clearer, I struggled with this for a long time before being diagnosed. Perhaps that resulted in PTSD.

Your thoughts?
LOL no I wasnt saying you were wrong. you gave your personal views (from your post above - My own personal view is that DID stems from child abuse and neglect in the formative years. And the realisation of the extent of the DID results in PTSD. And with the struggle to cope comes depression and anxiety.

Your thoughts on this?)

I posed my thoughts to you based on what my personal views are and what the mental health community for my state and location believe.

you werent asking posters if you were right or wrong, you asked for any thoughts on it.

If you had asked whether your personal view was right or wrong I would have said there is no right or wrong. everyone has their own personal views, and every mental health community has their own beliefs depending on their own location and cultural background, your personal views were perfectly fine for you, your location and all.

then I would have explained what my personal views and what those beliefs are for my location and those I work for as a mental health provider. my personal views and beliefs where I am and the mental health community here in my location just happens to be different than yours. which I find to be very cool. Earth and the people on it sure is quite a diverse world /people.

  #15  
Old Jun 26, 2011, 02:33 AM
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sunkiss sunkiss is offline
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amandalouise-i may be being too sensitive and -as always-i'm running late .....
i just noticed a red dot was beside my name-suggesting 'trigger'?
i'm not sure if that indicates anything re your comments? i really hope not. i found it helpful and still find it helpful reading all the different definitions that are only 'probables' in relation to myself.
in quoting your mentioning tests, i found that helpful-i know that is something i might approach my t in next meeting.
coming into a new group-i don't expect to find definitive answers-and i am really sorry if that was indicated. among other answers it was just refreshing to hear different views.
i might be missing the point completely in that the moderator may not have been referring to me.
my triggers are my own responsibility. i can stand back. however i wish to learn the experiences of others. anyway if there was any concern -thank you-. if at all possible, maybe i could take i responsibility and re-read the notes that cover posting on this forum. ideally if someone-maybe a moderator could send me a personal message -that would be helpful. i do not wish to interrupt an informative group...i really feel like 'home' among others. please again accept any apologies-especially amandalouise as you are such an asset
to this group-especially in your quotes of DSM 4-R....hopefully 5 soon and possibly ICD-as i said just a hurried reply. thank you to all group members-
  #16  
Old Jun 26, 2011, 06:22 AM
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amandalouise amandalouise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunkiss View Post
amandalouise-i may be being too sensitive and -as always-i'm running late .....
i just noticed a red dot was beside my name-suggesting 'trigger'?
i'm not sure if that indicates anything re your comments? i really hope not. i found it helpful and still find it helpful reading all the different definitions that are only 'probables' in relation to myself.
in quoting your mentioning tests, i found that helpful-i know that is something i might approach my t in next meeting.
coming into a new group-i don't expect to find definitive answers-and i am really sorry if that was indicated. among other answers it was just refreshing to hear different views.
i might be missing the point completely in that the moderator may not have been referring to me.
my triggers are my own responsibility. i can stand back. however i wish to learn the experiences of others. anyway if there was any concern -thank you-. if at all possible, maybe i could take i responsibility and re-read the notes that cover posting on this forum. ideally if someone-maybe a moderator could send me a personal message -that would be helpful. i do not wish to interrupt an informative group...i really feel like 'home' among others. please again accept any apologies-especially amandalouise as you are such an asset
to this group-especially in your quotes of DSM 4-R....hopefully 5 soon and possibly ICD-as i said just a hurried reply. thank you to all group members-
sunkiss

no nothing I posted had to do with you and your post with the red dot. the red dot (trigger warning) was put on your post by a moderator. look at the bottom of your post. it will tell you which moderator put the red dot on your post. pm that moderator and they will tell you why they put that there.

the mention of moderators in my post was referring to me and how I post and why.

when new members register their first 5 posts have to go through moderators, then the member is able to post on their own without having to go through moderators.

I have chosen to remain under moderation even after my first 5 posts for the reasons I stated in my above post.

I am glad you find my posts to be helpful for you. thanks for letting me know.

now lets get back to this interesting thread of how to tell when you have alters. the original poster gave us an article and we were discussing that. a poster gave us her personal opinion about DID and PTSD and asked for thoughts on that. I gave her mine.

if possible I would also like to add a more personal note on how I knew my alters were there, and how I know my clients alters are there..

I found out my alters were there by going through diagnostic testing after my therapist had talked with a few of my alters and she felt I fit the diagnostic criteria for it. After I was diagnosed with DID I started paying closer attention to my behaviors that were a result of my having the disorder like finding myself in other places, experiencing time loss and not remembering things. after years of therapy my alters all merged together to form what I am today one whole integrated person.

I "suspect" my clients have alters when I talk with those alters. I cant say I know they are there because here (NY state) the mental health community of therapists are not allowed to diagnose DID. our protocol here at the crisis center if we suspect the disorder is documenting our encounters with "suspected" alters. document whether we "suspect" that the client fits the diagnostic criterion if so refer them to a psychiatrist for diagnostic evaluations. after the evaluation the psychiatrist sends us a copy of their report stating whether our clients are in fact DID and to what severity.

Thanks for this!
Korin, sunkiss
  #17  
Old Jun 26, 2011, 09:50 AM
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Korin Korin is offline
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amandalouise,

As always, very clear and very helpful. Thank you.

I guess being in the UK things might be worded a bit different but I think we are all on the same page.
Thanks for this!
amandalouise
  #18  
Old Jun 26, 2011, 11:14 AM
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Hi amandalouise Thank you for taking the time to explain. Soo much can be lost in the art of communication with the black and white word, eh? It seems you have done your research well. Thank you for sharing with us your knowledge base of information. I hope you continue to share with everyone here. I have learned alot in reading your posts

Because I looked up information at Sidran.org yesterday, I am going back there today and starting to brush up on my grounding skills. It has brought me closer to the feelings I had while in the ward at Sheppard Pratt and that was such a comfort I actually had my first good nights sleep last night. Had you not posted yesterday, I would not have gotten the chance to look this information up and reconnect with Sidran.org. I thank you for this

I have heard there will be a new DSM-V coming out something this year or next.
Thanks for this!
amandalouise
  #19  
Old Jun 30, 2011, 05:07 AM
Anonymous32982
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Hi AmandaLouise!

I just wanted you to tell you how I interpreted what you meant when you said "I (and the mental health community here) believe....." . I thought you were referring to PC as the mental health community and were therefore speaking on behalf of all PC members. Now that you've explained that you were speaking on behalf of the community in which you live it makes so much more sense. Thanks for the clarification!

Love and hugs,
Tara
Thanks for this!
amandalouise
  #20  
Old Jun 30, 2011, 02:41 PM
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amandalouise amandalouise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tara_922 View Post
Hi AmandaLouise!

I just wanted you to tell you how I interpreted what you meant when you said "I (and the mental health community here) believe....." . I thought you were referring to PC as the mental health community and were therefore speaking on behalf of all PC members. Now that you've explained that you were speaking on behalf of the community in which you live it makes so much more sense. Thanks for the clarification!

Love and hugs,
Tara
thank you June bug and all for bringing this up and taking time out of the original discussion to talk about this. now that I know this has been confusing everyone I will try to be more clear by stating within my posts I am talking about me and those in my location.

Thanks for this!
Korin
  #21  
Old Jul 04, 2011, 09:20 PM
AngelsRUs AngelsRUs is offline
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In 2005, I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. I went and read every book I could get my hands on so I could better understand the disorder and manage it. Due to illnesses running in my family and prior experiences of them not taking care of themselves I am a bit hypervigilant in taking care of mine. Anyway, the diagnosis doesn't fit. I admit something is off but it isn't bipolar and other people I know agree with me.
Since 2005 I have had a total of 4 major episodes. The most difficult for me was that people acted like I was in a manic or was crazy and I know I wasn't. It appeared crazy but I knew reality. I started to think that perhaps I was scitzophernic but they ruled that out.
This last time I was able to figure some things out. I honestly think I may have Dissociative Identity Disorder. I hear voices per se but they are not really voices cause they are internal and just thoughts...however, thoughts I don't recogize as my own. During this last episode I seemed to regress to 4yrs old and approx.. 16yrs old but then I would act my age and just BeBop between all of them. Then even weirder I started acting and talking like my biological father and his grandmother at different times. I had no control but rather was watching everything.
It wasn't until I was looking up PTSD (which I have) that I came across the words depersonalization and derealization and it hit me...I knew it wasn't psychosis...those words explain exactly what I was experiencing. So when I saw DID I knew. Oddly enough when I was 16 a counselor said she thought I had MPD...I of course thought she was crazy!
I think the reason others are convinced that it is manic is cause when I have what they consider a major episode it is when the 4yr old takes control and all the other personalities are scurrying to get control. The 4yr old has very magical thinking like most little kids: believing in miracles, believing in superheros, and that christmas can be everyday LOL!
How do I get anyone to take me seriously and rediagnose me? I have gotten "sick" twice on meds now and they are convinced I am not taking meds which I am. I am not on a anti-anxiety med which is what I am finding is an appropriate med for this disorder.
I can accept DID; merely cause it explains exactly what I go through. It may sound odd but it is totally me! I am not scared now of the thoughts since I know they are merely a part of me. I am not scared that I am going crazy and a danger to anyone either.
I am not sure how to merge personalities on my own; however, so far I have let the 4yr old do some journaling and it is weird, slightly disconcerting but makes me want to cry some of the stuff she has written. The mama in me is heartbroken at what she endured. I also don't know how to get anyone to take me seriously. In the last 5-6 years it seems now that I have a mental illness no one believes a thing I say. They have decided I am crazy I guess.
I don't know anyone with this disorder and it seems like they don't diagnose as DID anymore. I guess it is controversial as to whether it is really a disorder or not...*sigh* sorry just really needing to vent and talk to someone.

~AngelsRUs~
  #22  
Old Jul 05, 2011, 03:47 AM
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amandalouise amandalouise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelsRUs View Post
In 2005, I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. I went and read every book I could get my hands on so I could better understand the disorder and manage it. Due to illnesses running in my family and prior experiences of them not taking care of themselves I am a bit hypervigilant in taking care of mine. Anyway, the diagnosis doesn't fit. I admit something is off but it isn't bipolar and other people I know agree with me.
Since 2005 I have had a total of 4 major episodes. The most difficult for me was that people acted like I was in a manic or was crazy and I know I wasn't. It appeared crazy but I knew reality. I started to think that perhaps I was scitzophernic but they ruled that out.
This last time I was able to figure some things out. I honestly think I may have Dissociative Identity Disorder. I hear voices per se but they are not really voices cause they are internal and just thoughts...however, thoughts I don't recogize as my own. During this last episode I seemed to regress to 4yrs old and approx.. 16yrs old but then I would act my age and just BeBop between all of them. Then even weirder I started acting and talking like my biological father and his grandmother at different times. I had no control but rather was watching everything.
It wasn't until I was looking up PTSD (which I have) that I came across the words depersonalization and derealization and it hit me...I knew it wasn't psychosis...those words explain exactly what I was experiencing. So when I saw DID I knew. Oddly enough when I was 16 a counselor said she thought I had MPD...I of course thought she was crazy!
I think the reason others are convinced that it is manic is cause when I have what they consider a major episode it is when the 4yr old takes control and all the other personalities are scurrying to get control. The 4yr old has very magical thinking like most little kids: believing in miracles, believing in superheros, and that christmas can be everyday LOL!
How do I get anyone to take me seriously and rediagnose me? I have gotten "sick" twice on meds now and they are convinced I am not taking meds which I am. I am not on a anti-anxiety med which is what I am finding is an appropriate med for this disorder.
I can accept DID; merely cause it explains exactly what I go through. It may sound odd but it is totally me! I am not scared now of the thoughts since I know they are merely a part of me. I am not scared that I am going crazy and a danger to anyone either.
I am not sure how to merge personalities on my own; however, so far I have let the 4yr old do some journaling and it is weird, slightly disconcerting but makes me want to cry some of the stuff she has written. The mama in me is heartbroken at what she endured. I also don't know how to get anyone to take me seriously. In the last 5-6 years it seems now that I have a mental illness no one believes a thing I say. They have decided I am crazy I guess.
I don't know anyone with this disorder and it seems like they don't diagnose as DID anymore. I guess it is controversial as to whether it is really a disorder or not...*sigh* sorry just really needing to vent and talk to someone.

~AngelsRUs~
DID is still diagnosed today just differently than it used to be. now you dont just go talk to a therapist and the therapist says right then and there you have DID.

you have to go to a psychiatrist and go through extensive testing that can take anywhere from two weeks to months to complete. If you think you have DID talk with your treatment providers (medical doctor or therapist) and they can refer you to a psychiatrist that does diagnostic testing for dissociative disorders.

also DID is a life long disorder beginning in childhood before the age of 5-7 yrs old. if you have DID you would have more than 4 episodes, you may not be aware of other episodes or 4 dissociative episodes may be all thats happened. a psychiatrist must talk with at least two of your alters that fit the diagnostics for the disorder. After you go through the diagnostic testing for DID you will have a better idea about whether more episodes have happened.

after you have gone through the testing the results will be on your mental health records so you wont have to worry so much about your treatment providers taking you seriously.

Thanks for this!
Korin
  #23  
Old Feb 28, 2017, 01:23 AM
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MtnTime2896 MtnTime2896 is offline
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This is an old thread but very informative.

Thank you to all who participated in it, if you're still around.
__________________
"Give him his freedom and he'll remember his humanity."
Thanks for this!
elevatedsoul
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attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




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