[Claritytoo]

I had a session with t yesterday or someone did. There was someone talking to t that I know is part of us. He is one of the protectors of the girls. This was the first time I could hear the session but I wasn't present. He was saying things to my t but was thinking other things that weren't so nice. Someone in my system knows him and can exert come control kind of control over him. Like he wanted to leave but someone told him to stay. So he stayed. He was condescending in his thoughts but reserved when speaking to t. He felt stronger than me and independent from the rest of us. I have a bad feeling about him but it might just be that I don't know him or that he felt stronger than me. I don't know. Has anyone had something similar or does this sound like something that is from DID? After the session I felt very uncomfortable, very uneasy.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Claritytoo

I had a session with t yesterday or someone did. There was someone talking to t that I know is part of us. He is one of the protectors of the girls. This was the first time I could hear the session but I wasn't present. He was saying things to my t but was thinking other things that weren't so nice. Someone in my system knows him and can exert come control kind of control over him. Like he wanted to leave but someone told him to stay. So he stayed. He was condescending in his thoughts but reserved when speaking to t. He felt stronger than me and independent from the rest of us. I have a bad feeling about him but it might just be that I don't know him or that he felt stronger than me. I don't know. Has anyone had something similar or does this sound like something that is from DID? After the session I felt very uncomfortable, very uneasy.

I have encountered this kind of thing associated with my DID and not associated with my DID. Its completely normal for people to be talking with someone and thinking a completely different thing..many times I have found myself listening and talking to someone and thinking you know this is complete BS, wow what a jerk or even I wonder what time it it, what excuse can I claim to get out of this conversation. people in general do have their own thoughts that dont resemble what actually comes out of their mouths all the time in their daily lives on a normal basis so its no surprise to me when on those rare occasions I was co conscious I found my alter saying one thing and thinking another, or doing one thing and thinking or saying the complete opposite. its just part of having a free will and free thinking brain where no government, school or what ever has control over our thoughts, speech and actions. heck even those in countries where those in control state they must only think this or that still have their own thoughts that are contrary to what words actually come out of their mouths, watch any kind of documentary and you will find all kinds of people from all walks of like, with mental disorders and with out that sometimes say one thing and admit to thinking another.

when I find I am talking one way and thinking another I consider that a clue that Im not feeling comfortable at that moment or I find that Im in a situation where telling someone the complete honesty of my thoughts would not be good either for them or for me.. for example Im not about to tell my mother a certain shirt that she wears looks absolutely putrid/ghastly on her, and that she really should lighten up on the make up, that one of her eyebrows is tweezed wrong for her face shape and gosh give up saying a particular word she uses that annoys me. so instead I listen politely, nod my head in the right places and let my mom be how ever and who ever she is to herself all the while inside I am thinking the most un daughterly thoughts at times. about what I would love to do to that putrid green shirt, just give me the chance to launder that ... lol

and gosh I cant count how many times before and after I was integrated when I have been talking with my boss and thought some down right horrible thoughts lol

saying one thing to my treatment providers and thinking another... yup been there done that both before and after integration...

yup my opinion...speaking one thing and thinking something different is just part of being human.

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

I have encountered this kind of thing associated with my DID and not associated with my DID. Its completely normal for people to be talking with someone and thinking a completely different thing..many times I have found myself listening and talking to someone and thinking you know this is complete BS, wow what a jerk or even I wonder what time it it, what excuse can I claim to get out of this conversation. people in general do have their own thoughts that dont resemble what actually comes out of their mouths all the time in their daily lives on a normal basis so its no surprise to me when on those rare occasions I was co conscious I found my alter saying one thing and thinking another, or doing one thing and thinking or saying the complete opposite. its just part of having a free will and free thinking brain where no government, school or what ever has control over our thoughts, speech and actions. heck even those in countries where those in control state they must only think this or that still have their own thoughts that are contrary to what words actually come out of their mouths, watch any kind of documentary and you will find all kinds of people from all walks of like, with mental disorders and with out that sometimes say one thing and admit to thinking another.

when I find I am talking one way and thinking another I consider that a clue that Im not feeling comfortable at that moment or I find that Im in a situation where telling someone the complete honesty of my thoughts would not be good either for them or for me.. for example Im not about to tell my mother a certain shirt that she wears looks absolutely putrid/ghastly on her, and that she really should lighten up on the make up, that one of her eyebrows is tweezed wrong for her face shape and gosh give up saying a particular word she uses that annoys me. so instead I listen politely, nod my head in the right places and let my mom be how ever and who ever she is to herself all the while inside I am thinking the most un daughterly thoughts at times. about what I would love to do to that putrid green shirt, just give me the chance to launder that ... lol

and gosh I cant count how many times before and after I was integrated when I have been talking with my boss and thought some down right horrible thoughts lol

saying one thing to my treatment providers and thinking another... yup been there done that both before and after integration...

yup my opinion...speaking one thing and thinking something different is just part of being human.

Thanks for responding, I think my discomfort is that my outward demenior was quite and soft but my inside thoughts and feelings were condisending and contemptuous toward my t. She was unaware. At some point he wanted to get up and leave and almost did, but someone told him to sit and stay. He did but he wasn't happy. He felt stronger than me and I have not felt that before from the others. Not physically stronger but stronger.
I know he will be back at session at some time. He made me feel unsafe.

[LouR]

Hi Clairtytoo
If that is what you experience and it upset you then I respect that you felt that way and I hope that you feel better now
I have not experienced that but I'm only at the start of my treatment and I'm still trying to be comfortable with this myself.

[LouR]

Could you write it down and post it or pass it to your therapist if you can't trust that he'll be back. Its probably not good if you feel unsafe and maybe you should advise your T.

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by LouR

Could you write it down and post it or pass it to your therapist if you can't trust that he'll be back. Its probably not good if you feel unsafe and maybe you should advise your T.

I emailed my t with how I was feeling. She hasn't emailed back yet. I appreciate the advice.

[LouR]

Your more than welcome

[Claritytoo]

Is anyone familiar with this experience? I seem to be unable to conceptualize him.

What I wanted to know more about is the deception of that alter. When I said I felt like a fraud during the session it was because that alters thoughts and feelings were not the same as he presented. That is the fraud. Up until now what you see was a reflection of what we were feeling. But he was feeling aggressive but with one or two exceptions he was "acting" docile. What does such behavior mean? What type of alter does that make him? Do you have anything that could help me understand him? That is really what I want to know. It is important to me because he makes me fee uneasy.

[Silversand]

Could he possibly be passive-aggressive. I have a protector who is because it was the only way he could fight back and keep us all safe.
take care

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by Silversand

Could he possibly be passive-aggressive. I have a protector who is because it was the only way he could fight back and keep us all safe.
take care

He was being told to behave. I think if he was allowed to say what he wanted he would have been verbally aggressive and offensive to my t. The passive part felt like an act. Nothing that was a part of him. I felt no passivity about him at all.

[LouR]

Hi I think I can help join the dots for you as I'm learning assertion when it somes to being a leader in my work environment

think of a line
On one end is passive
On the other end is aggressive
Most people think that you get assertion in the middle of the line but that is not the case
What you get is passive aggressive.
To add assertion to this picture think of a point above the line that is not connected to it. Basically implying that it is above the line of passive-passive aggressive- aggressive behaviours

So to be truly passive these are some of the signs:
is afraid to speak up
speaks softly
avoids looking at people
shows little or no expression
slouches and withdraws
isolates self from groups
agrees with others, despite feelings
values self less than others
hurts self to avoid hurting others
does not reach goals and may not know goals
Bottom line is that "You're okay, BUT I'm not"

Okay?

So then lets look at Aggressive
Interrupts and talks over others
speaks loudly
glares and stares at others
intimidates others with expressions
stands rigidly, crosses arms, invades others space
controls groups
only considers own feelings, and/or demands others
values self more than others
hurts others to avoid being hurt
reaches goals but hurts others in the process
Bottom line message is "I'm okay but you're not"

Passive aggression is the blending of both of these lists

So I'm thinking if you have an alter that is like this it can confuse you especially if your in the background watching what's happening but can't stop it.... try and think of this when this emotion/attitude/behaviour exhibits itself. I truly believe that the alters/EP's are parts that have no assertion because we were not allowed or were trampled on by our experiences and those doing those things that we could not develop assertion

Assertion is a freeing experience it does not make you feel guilty (for want of a better word afterwards) and this is how I want to ultimately be.

Assertion is:
Speaks openly
Uses a conversational tone
Makes good eye contact
Shows expressions that match the message
Relaxes and adopts an open posture and expressions
Participates in groups
Speaks to the point
Values self equal to others
Tries to hurt no one (including self)
Usually reaches goals without alienating others
The bottom line message is "I'm okay, your okay"

I watched a documentary called Kumare you've probably heard of it as I watch this movie I saw a person who exhibited these signs Vikram Ghandi who said that Kumare was his "ideal self". Eventhough in the beginning of the documentary he was doing this experiment to tell society that "Gurus" are basically narcissitic/delusional persons stealing your money however as he pretended to be Kumare you could see that he was feeling like a fraud however he treated his "followers" with dignity and he was honest when dropping hints that he is a fraud and yet his followers didn't catch on I won't ruin the ending but how he came out to his followers was truly heart felt and I felt very sensitive to his "followers" delicate psychological processes.

If you can and your feeling philosophical watch this movie too.

I respect how you feel Claritytoo I feel at times what you have felt and I undestand how scary it is when a state like that comes over you and you can't stop it.
I hope that this has helped and I hope you don't feel that I was being to condescending because that is not my intention.
Kind regards
Lou

[LouR]

By the way don't kick yourself over that alters deception for that alter that is his truth, that is his feelings, attitudes and behaviours not yours. I wish I could hug you matey I really do.

[Silversand]

A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal.--Oscar Wilde

the truth can be used as a "weapon of destruction"

"A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation."--Saki

Lying is often done as a means of asserting one's individuality and independence (and it also helps kids get cookies). It should come as no surprise that children raised in very controlling environments are often more likely to rebel and use deception to gain some freedom
Deception is not always bad.
Deception allows us to maintain boundaries - to keep people out, to keep others at a safe distance, and to assert our freedom

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by Silversand

A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal.--Oscar Wilde

the truth can be used as a "weapon of destruction"

"A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation."--Saki

Lying is often done as a means of asserting one's individuality and independence (and it also helps kids get cookies). It should come as no surprise that children raised in very controlling environments are often more likely to rebel and use deception to gain some freedom
Deception is not always bad.
Deception allows us to maintain boundaries - to keep people out, to keep others at a safe distance, and to assert our freedom

Thank you for your reply, My other was deceptive only because he was being told to not say what what he was thinking. He did not feel free. He felt like he was cornered. He didn't want to be there but was told to stay. I don't know who told him to stay and I don't know him. It was an experience I have never had before, where I didn't recognize the thoughts and the feeling. The one at the session was stronger than me. I keep order. That is what I do. All this makes me feel uncomfortable. I know he will be at future sessions. That is what I am told. I just want to know him better. To understand his intentions.

[Claritytoo]

In my session today I allowed myself to switch in front of my t. Intentionally. This is not something I have done before. I mean I have switched but it wasn't my idea at the time. We come and go all the time even during session. What made this different is that I didn't hide it. My t asked me a question and I asked someone else to answer because I didn't want to. So someone else stepped in and answered. It is someone who she has spoken with before. My t acknowledged the switch and I did not hide. It was a good experience in that I have kept us a secret for so long, it felt good to just be me and communicate freely as I do. Without worrying about being seen. I hope this makes sence. But it was a good session.