[Claritytoo]

What the he** does it mean?????

"Host alter (see ANP) "The host is an alter that has the function of living daily life. [3]:58 There is almost always more than one alter who is an ANP and performs the job of host. It is important to understand that hosts are lacking in self awareness and functioning - they are not a complete personality. No alter, including the host is the "original/core," since there is no such thing. Different hosts can be in charge during various times in life, and new alters can be created if needed."

Is it saying that there is no one original? Has anyone heard of this before? Who am I working to be if there is no original?

[ThisWayOut]

I have not heard that before. where did you read it?

yes please can you share where you read this because this is highly disturbing!

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Claritytoo

What the he** does it mean?????

"Host alter (see ANP) "The host is an alter that has the function of living daily life. [3]:58 There is almost always more than one alter who is an ANP and performs the job of host. It is important to understand that hosts are lacking in self awareness and functioning - they are not a complete personality. No alter, including the host is the "original/core," since there is no such thing. Different hosts can be in charge during various times in life, and new alters can be created if needed."

Is it saying that there is no one original? Has anyone heard of this before? Who am I working to be if there is no original?

in rare situations the person in which alters live with in have been do traumatized that the result is this person's brain protects their self by the body person retreating into a completely separate mental created world and creating alters that take over the job of being a host...(one in control most of the time to give the appearance of being normal. in other words the Apparently Normal Part (ANP)

it doesnt mean there is no original one, it just means the original one was so traumatized, for their protection, safety and survival they are rarely in control, rarely aware and the ANP is the one that acts/takes on the role of appearing to be the host.

[cryingoutloud1]

yes i have heard of this. I have this experience. we do not have host alter because she is sleeping and can not be waken. so we only have alters... children and teens. this usually happens in Exstreem abuse. I am not saying abuse is not exstreem but there are different severity. If host is exsteemly traumatized as child/ infant he/she may not be able to cope and want to deal or go at all so he she goes to sleep and in so sending others to take over and usually putting one alter in charge.

oh ok it makes more sense now because we are the same way just never heard it put quite like that before thanks for explaining

[Claritytoo]

Sorry if I upset anyone with this. I was pretty upset myself. This information was at this link
Alters in Dissociative Identity Disorder - Dissociative Identity Disorder, Dissociation and Trauma Disorders

A lot of the information was helpful. I realized that I have a few "oep" alters. My t asked one of us at last session what is our purpose and all we knew is that we talk to the others and do not function in the world except at session. And that is with in the past year only. Now I know she is an "OEP" and that definition makes perfect sense. Also some of the other descriptions of alters help me to make more sense of my system, I have heard about sleeping originals or originals who stay so far back they never live in the world. But I have been searching for my original and I don't feel one. There is someone who is in denial of our diagnosis. She always cries and says no no over and over. We try to talk to her but it is like she don't hear us. We are thinking she might be the original but she doesn't hear us and is never in the world. She only presents in that hysterical state. We are starting to think that maybe we don't have an original. And the reason we started therapy and continue to go was to find the original and integrate. If we don't have an original how do we integrate.

[innocentjoy]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

in rare situations the person in which alters live with in have been do traumatized that the result is this person's brain protects their self by the body person retreating into a completely separate mental created world and creating alters that take over the job of being a host...(one in control most of the time to give the appearance of being normal. in other words the Apparently Normal Part (ANP)

it doesnt mean there is no original one, it just means the original one was so traumatized, for their protection, safety and survival they are rarely in control, rarely aware and the ANP is the one that acts/takes on the role of appearing to be the host.

That's not what I get from this at all. To me the infromation is trying to stress that all of the parts make up one whole person. Therefore, when the first alter is created, walls are built up between the experience/job of the alter and the other parts of the original. So altogether, they make up one whole person. The alter isn't created from nothing to add to the person's whole being, it is sectioned off from who the whole being was. So the part that others would call the original, isn't technically the original anymore because part of who they were has been sectioned off to become an alter. Each time another alter is created, it is the same thing: walls being put up to stop conscious awareness of certain things (memories, jobs, emotions, etc.) The idea is to get people to understand that the 'original' as others call it, is not actually the whole person he/she was before the trauma. They are now parts of the whole as well.

As for your goal for therapy, most therapists want to help their patients break down some (or all) of the barriers that are making parts necessary. You want to become a whole person, with all of your parts either integrated, or communicating with each other so that you can access any jobs, experience, emotions or memories needed to function well in life.

Many therapists feel the need to stress that all personalities/alters are part of who you are, no one is a whole person, they each play a part in your system. I think that is where they are coming from, looking at it holistically. One of the roadblocks in therapy that people come up with is that they can't identify some alters as being part of who they are, and they need to overcome this in order to bring them back into a highly functioning person. So this sounds like they are trying to prevent that from being too ingrained in people's minds as they learn about their different parts.

I hope that makes sense.

[innocentjoy]

Thanks for the link, Claritytoo!! It will be an interesting read

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by innocentjoy

That's not what I get from this at all. To me the infromation is trying to stress that all of the parts make up one whole person. Therefore, when the first alter is created, walls are built up between the experience/job of the alter and the other parts of the original. So altogether, they make up one whole person. The alter isn't created from nothing to add to the person's whole being, it is sectioned off from who the whole being was. So the part that others would call the original, isn't technically the original anymore because part of who they were has been sectioned off to become an alter. Each time another alter is created, it is the same thing: walls being put up to stop conscious awareness of certain things (memories, jobs, emotions, etc.) The idea is to get people to understand that the 'original' as others call it, is not actually the whole person he/she was before the trauma. They are now parts of the whole as well.

As for your goal for therapy, most therapists want to help their patients break down some (or all) of the barriers that are making parts necessary. You want to become a whole person, with all of your parts either integrated, or communicating with each other so that you can access any jobs, experience, emotions or memories needed to function well in life.

Many therapists feel the need to stress that all personalities/alters are part of who you are, no one is a whole person, they each play a part in your system. I think that is where they are coming from, looking at it holistically. One of the roadblocks in therapy that people come up with is that they can't identify some alters as being part of who they are, and they need to overcome this in order to bring them back into a highly functioning person. So this sounds like they are trying to prevent that from being too ingrained in people's minds as they learn about their different parts.

I hope that makes sense.

yes the sum of all alters make up one whole person. here where I live and work the term created means the same thing that you understand...the mind puts up walls between the person that was traumatized and the alters. here where I live and work alters are "created" I dont mean they become out of nothing and added to the system/person with DID...

the brain is an amazing thing. it makes it possible for human beings be "creative" in normal situations this creativity called dissociation allows a person to dream, day dream, space out when bored or under stress, numb their self or even go to the extreme of being creative by shutting off those traumatic events, feelings, memories. (in your words put up walls) around them and what causes them to be triggered.

some where, some time after the person goes through such a chaotic, stressful, triggering....the persons creative brain using the creativity skill of dissociation these walled off parts of memories, feelings events become alternate personalities that have their own jobs, purposes, reasons for being...in essence start interacting with in the internal system of alters and the outside world, just like a human being.

this is how Im using the term created. not to mean the alters just suddenly appeared out of the wild blue yonder to be added.

a person starts out in this world by being one whole person and then through the creative process of dissociation the one whole person is creatively divided into smaller parts called the host and alters.

Im sorry if my language usage is different than yours and may have caused you some upset. I was just using my locations and cultures terms for the dissociative process.

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by innocentjoy

That's not what I get from this at all. To me the infromation is trying to stress that all of the parts make up one whole person. Therefore, when the first alter is created, walls are built up between the experience/job of the alter and the other parts of the original. So altogether, they make up one whole person. The alter isn't created from nothing to add to the person's whole being, it is sectioned off from who the whole being was. So the part that others would call the original, isn't technically the original anymore because part of who they were has been sectioned off to become an alter. Each time another alter is created, it is the same thing: walls being put up to stop conscious awareness of certain things (memories, jobs, emotions, etc.) The idea is to get people to understand that the 'original' as others call it, is not actually the whole person he/she was before the trauma. They are now parts of the whole as well.

You have given a very insightful perspective. Personally I have a lot of consciousnesses when having to do things in the world. I have noticed that not everyone knows what the others do or say when it does not pertain to the outside. I understand the concept you described of the "original" now being a part because he/she created others to do certain jobs. It makes sense. One of my worries was how would the original be if she hasn't had to do all the jobs we have been doing for so long. It kinda makes me sad that Sue isn't the me I was looking for. I am seeing my t on Thursday to talk about all this. I have three hosts that are in the world, they work, they problem solve and get tough when needed. They watch over us but they don't communicate much with us individually. We have someone who will talk to us for them. You know like pass on information that we need to know so we don't get seen. Last night I was freaked out and crying today I am trying to wrap my head around it. Your insight helped. What I don't understand is who do we integrate into if there is no one alter or original. There is someone who we have who loves someone but she doesn't seem to be aware of us. Not that I can remember. When she is out everyone is quite, no cross talk just her in the moment. It's weird but it always feels safe. I would want us to be her but if she knew all the stuff we know maybe she wouldn't feel safe anymore. It's all so much to think about.

As for your goal for therapy, most therapists want to help their patients break down some (or all) of the barriers that are making parts necessary. You want to become a whole person, with all of your parts either integrated, or communicating with each other so that you can access any jobs, experience, emotions or memories needed to function well in life.

I hope that makes sense.

Many therapists feel the need to stress that all personalities/alters are part of who you are, no one is a whole person, they each play a part in your system. I think that is where they are coming from, looking at it holistically. One of the roadblocks in therapy that people come up with is that they can't identify some alters as being part of who they are, and they need to overcome this in order to bring them back into a highly functioning person. So this sounds like they are trying to prevent that from being too ingrained in people's minds as they learn about their different parts.

[innocentjoy]

I have no experience to speak of when it comes to integrating, except what I've read, and it seems to me that everyone has their own format for who integrates and when. That would be a you and your t conversation, I'm sure she can help you out.

I know what you mean, wondering what she might have been if none of this had happened. You (all) wouldn't have had to go through nearly as much. You probably wouldn't have the coping skills, strength and other amazing abilities that come with DID as well, though. There really is no way to ever know how you would have been. I hope you can look at all your parts and be proud of what they have done, to help you survive. Since learning about my diagnosis this summer, I am in constant awe of how I managed to get through such horrible and confusing times, and yet still develop some pretty high coping skills because of it all. Right now they're not really helping me all the time anymore, of course, but it's pretty amazing that I was able to create this entire system as I needed it.
There is no specific step by step, who integrates into whom, rule. It can be scary, but it also means you can decide for yourself, as a group, what works best.
best wishes,
IJ

[Claritytoo]

Sorry Innocentjoy I must have put my response in the wrong place. In case you didn't see it in the previous post this is what I wrote.

You have given a very insightful perspective. Personally I have a lot of consciousnesses when having to do things in the world. I have noticed that not everyone knows what the others do or say when it does not pertain to the outside. I understand the concept you described of the "original" now being a part because he/she created others to do certain jobs. It makes sense. One of my worries was how would the original be if she hasn't had to do all the jobs we have been doing for so long. It kinda makes me sad that Sue isn't the me I was looking for. I am seeing my t on Thursday to talk about all this. I have three hosts that are in the world, they work, they problem solve and get tough when needed. They watch over us but they don't communicate much with us individually. We have someone who will talk to us for them. You know like pass on information that we need to know so we don't get seen. Last night I was freaked out and crying today I am trying to wrap my head around it. Your insight helped. What I don't understand is who do we integrate into if there is no one alter or original. There is someone who we have who loves someone but she doesn't seem to be aware of us. Not that I can remember. When she is out everyone is quite, no cross talk just her in the moment. It's weird but it always feels safe. I would want us to be her but if she knew all the stuff we know maybe she wouldn't feel safe anymore. It's all so much to think about.

[innocentjoy]

See what your t has to say about it. Not having gone through any integration myself, I don't know what to tell you about that. It is very confusing, I agree. I'm not at the point of thinking about integration, so the idea isn't something I can think about for myself at the moment. I'm still learning about everyone.
xoxoxo
IJ

[Bloem]

Originally Posted by innocentjoy

That's not what I get from this at all. To me the infromation is trying to stress that all of the parts make up one whole person. Therefore, when the first alter is created, walls are built up between the experience/job of the alter and the other parts of the original. So altogether, they make up one whole person. The alter isn't created from nothing to add to the person's whole being, it is sectioned off from who the whole being was. So the part that others would call the original, isn't technically the original anymore because part of who they were has been sectioned off to become an alter. Each time another alter is created, it is the same thing: walls being put up to stop conscious awareness of certain things (memories, jobs, emotions, etc.) The idea is to get people to understand that the 'original' as others call it, is not actually the whole person he/she was before the trauma. They are now parts of the whole as well.

As for your goal for therapy, most therapists want to help their patients break down some (or all) of the barriers that are making parts necessary. You want to become a whole person, with all of your parts either integrated, or communicating with each other so that you can access any jobs, experience, emotions or memories needed to function well in life.

Many therapists feel the need to stress that all personalities/alters are part of who you are, no one is a whole person, they each play a part in your system. I think that is where they are coming from, looking at it holistically. One of the roadblocks in therapy that people come up with is that they can't identify some alters as being part of who they are, and they need to overcome this in order to bring them back into a highly functioning person. So this sounds like they are trying to prevent that from being too ingrained in people's minds as they learn about their different parts.

I hope that makes sense.

Thank you for this information!

When I first read this thread I got a shock. But how you describe makes sense to me. I got a skock because when I was admitted my t wrote in a referral for the clinic that is was the ANP. I do not feel like an alter i feel like the original person.
Technically, I am 'not' the original because I exist in/out different parts.
because of these parts I can function 'apparently normal' which is not quite true
but that's another story. At first sight I look 'normal' but I'm not a whole person, not yet.

Bloem

[innocentjoy]

Originally Posted by Bloem

At first sight I look 'normal' but I'm not a whole person, not yet.

Bloem

But you're still wholly wonderful

[Claritytoo]

I went to session today with that list of alter discriptions that was on the internet. I discussed it with my t. I explained I am trying to understand my alters better. Understand their jobs better. I think the list helped. I also asked my t about there not being an original me, Basically what she said is that all my parts are the original me just compartmentalized. That made sense and felt right for my system. I also explained to her that I would prefer for her to suggest that my alters spend time together and experience what each other experiences like eating, walking, being out in the world. What I told my t I couldn't do was make an alter do something they didn't want to do or behave other than they do. That will be up to them to include each other in their space. I have a lot to think about. I also admitted to my t that I am afraid of seeing the memories. I am afraid of being consumed by the grief and pain. She tried to comfort me but I turned it off. I do believe that I need to know and to remember. I think I am close. I want to know what happened and put it in the past were it belongs. It is scary though.

[innocentjoy]

Wow, it sounds like you got a lot out there. I'm so happy you were able to talk to her today about the issues. I know what you mean about not wanting the memories. It's horrible and scary. I talked to my t today about a flashback I had this week, and he had me do some emdr work, focusing on the memory. It was the hardest thing I've done, because normally I scruntch my eyes tight during flashbacks, and for this I had to have my eyes open. I'm glad he made me stick with it though because eventually it wasn't so bad, and we were able to create a calmer situation out of it, in my head. He said the problem with the bad memories is that people don't want to remember them, so they haunt them for a long time, because confronting them is so scary. He said that it would be easy to be traumatized again by some of the memories, but that if you're in a safe place they're not so bad to go through, and can help release issues.

One thing, though: with your t, you are not in it alone. And you have way more skills and knowledge now, going through it, than you did when you were going through it in the first place.

I'm glad that your t helped with the confusion of the original. She was able to say it in a more clear manner than what I woul dhave been able.

Hugs!!!!
xoxo
IJ

[Claritytoo]

innocentjoy thanks for being so supportive. It helps make me feel good and like I make sense.

[innocentjoy]

You DO make sense!! At least to me
And you've been so great for me, too, how could I not return the favour?
xo
IJ

[Tremor]

Originally Posted by innocentjoy

That's not what I get from this at all. To me the infromation is trying to stress that all of the parts make up one whole person. Therefore, when the first alter is created, walls are built up between the experience/job of the alter and the other parts of the original. So altogether, they make up one whole person. The alter isn't created from nothing to add to the person's whole being, it is sectioned off from who the whole being was. So the part that others would call the original, isn't technically the original anymore because part of who they were has been sectioned off to become an alter. Each time another alter is created, it is the same thing: walls being put up to stop conscious awareness of certain things (memories, jobs, emotions, etc.) The idea is to get people to understand that the 'original' as others call it, is not actually the whole person he/she was before the trauma. They are now parts of the whole as well.

As for your goal for therapy, most therapists want to help their patients break down some (or all) of the barriers that are making parts necessary. You want to become a whole person, with all of your parts either integrated, or communicating with each other so that you can access any jobs, experience, emotions or memories needed to function well in life.

Many therapists feel the need to stress that all personalities/alters are part of who you are, no one is a whole person, they each play a part in your system. I think that is where they are coming from, looking at it holistically. One of the roadblocks in therapy that people come up with is that they can't identify some alters as being part of who they are, and they need to overcome this in order to bring them back into a highly functioning person. So this sounds like they are trying to prevent that from being too ingrained in people's minds as they learn about their different parts.

I hope that makes sense.

Innocentjoy, that makes a lot of sense to me! What I don't understand about my alters is that they seem so sectioned off from my life as a host overall that they don't know everything that I have been through...which seems good for them, but not good for me. My alters seem smarter than me, because although they have experienced trauma, they have not experienced all the trauma that I (the host) have experienced. From this, they seem a lot more sane than I am and smarter than me.
I'm not sure how to communicate with my alters when although they are all parts of me, they are not aware of much beyond what they know. They just see me as a dumb adult version of them who keeps ruining their lives.
They have trouble understanding me. I can understand for the most part where they are coming from...I only have trouble remembering what it was like to have some of their good traits.
Ugh, I don't even know if this makes sense to anyone else. Does it at all??

[innocentjoy]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

yes the sum of all alters make up one whole person. here where I live and work the term created means the same thing that you understand...the mind puts up walls between the person that was traumatized and the alters. here where I live and work alters are "created" I dont mean they become out of nothing and added to the system/person with DID...

the brain is an amazing thing. it makes it possible for human beings be "creative" in normal situations this creativity called dissociation allows a person to dream, day dream, space out when bored or under stress, numb their self or even go to the extreme of being creative by shutting off those traumatic events, feelings, memories. (in your words put up walls) around them and what causes them to be triggered.

some where, some time after the person goes through such a chaotic, stressful, triggering....the persons creative brain using the creativity skill of dissociation these walled off parts of memories, feelings events become alternate personalities that have their own jobs, purposes, reasons for being...in essence start interacting with in the internal system of alters and the outside world, just like a human being.

this is how Im using the term created. not to mean the alters just suddenly appeared out of the wild blue yonder to be added.

a person starts out in this world by being one whole person and then through the creative process of dissociation the one whole person is creatively divided into smaller parts called the host and alters.

Im sorry if my language usage is different than yours and may have caused you some upset. I was just using my locations and cultures terms for the dissociative process.

You didn't upset me, you were just talking about the fact that there is still an original, they're just so traumatized that they don't come out very often. Which is completely different than having the original no longer exist because the barriers are keeping them from being whole. When there are alters, there isn't an original anymore. That's all. It had nothing to do with the term creating an alter.

[innocentjoy]

Originally Posted by Tremor

Innocentjoy, that makes a lot of sense to me! What I don't understand about my alters is that they seem so sectioned off from my life as a host overall that they don't know everything that I have been through...which seems good for them, but not good for me. My alters seem smarter than me, because although they have experienced trauma, they have not experienced all the trauma that I (the host) have experienced. From this, they seem a lot more sane than I am and smarter than me.
I'm not sure how to communicate with my alters when although they are all parts of me, they are not aware of much beyond what they know. They just see me as a dumb adult version of them who keeps ruining their lives.
They have trouble understanding me. I can understand for the most part where they are coming from...I only have trouble remembering what it was like to have some of their good traits.
Ugh, I don't even know if this makes sense to anyone else. Does it at all??

My experience with my alters is that they had certain aspects of them that needed to be recognized. Whether they need reassurance, respect, understanding, or acknowledgement, there are parts of them that are very important to them, and to my system as a whole tha have needed to be realized by me. Not much productive communication could take place until they trusted me, and the trust only came when I understood them on their own levels, and genuinely understood why I had needed them in the first place.

It sounds like they could be helped by you orienting them to the present. However, it is very important to listen to them, their concerns, etc as well. One thing my T has taught me is that when one of the parts is frustrated or upset, instead of reacting, it helps for me to ask them why they feel that way, what is behind it. Usually this helps anyone to feel heard, when you try to see things from their point of view before responding or reacting. It helps with alters as well, in my experience. Not sure if that helps you, your system could be completely different than mine. But isn't that human nature to begin with? That wish to be heard, understood and validated?