[stahrgeyzer]

@SprinkL3 Thanks, I'm okay. Airbnbs aren't as private as an apartment but it forces me to talk to people every so often. It's a 4 bedroom airbnb shared house. It's like getting 4 different roommates every month or two. Some people make me feel comfortable. Some are scary, but I can always hide in my room.

body hurts (really hurts) from showering

ow ow ow

numb

[stahrgeyzer]

What's good about triggering? It makes me depressed & do SI. And lately I'm learning that it might make other parts front and do things I'm not aware of. Somehow I just need to stop triggering!

When I used to talk to the voices, Cayla once told me that in inner world I'm 10 yo and she's 9. That's so confusing. Can the host be a different age than the body? If that's true then why do some of the parts call me an adult? Feel like I'm getting the worst part of the deal. They use the body whenever and for the most part do not want to interact with me.

Ever so often I have vivid memories that look and feel so real like they're real life memories but have no idea if they're inner world memories. They're not outer world memories.

[SprinkL3]

We purchased a lot of gifts for our close friends, local acquaintances, and a few close relatives. Also, the littles wanted Snoopy, one of the new Care Bears, and a very expensive bear set, so we got them those things.

You could say that we used IFS coping to deal with retail therapy during the holidays. It feels good to give and to reach out.

We reached out to an ex. We hope he has a new girlfriend because we just couldn't be in a relationship with him or anyone else for that matter. We feel safest alone, but we love him as a friend, so we got him some gifts. He struggles like us with some depression stuff - maybe also PTSD. He's a professor, so we worry about him. But he plays it safe, and he loves cats. We purchased a few cat-themed things for him, including a cat board game (for humans, but the cats could still walk all over the board gams in the same manner that the walk on our laptops, LOL - Meow!).

We're avoiding some feelings, but we are also freaking out over possible future laws and changes, covid surges, etc. So, we're doing what we can now to enjoy our time and perhaps stock up.

[SprinkL3]

Originally Posted by stahrgeyzer

What's good about triggering? It makes me depressed & do SI. And lately I'm learning that it might make other parts front and do things I'm not aware of. Somehow I just need to stop triggering!

When I used to talk to the voices, Cayla once told me that in inner world I'm 10 yo and she's 9. That's so confusing. Can the host be a different age than the body? If that's true then why do some of the parts call me an adult? Feel like I'm getting the worst part of the deal. They use the body whenever and for the most part do not want to interact with me.

Ever so often I have vivid memories that look and feel so real like they're real life memories but have no idea if they're inner world memories. They're not outer world memories.

Have you tried grounding techniques to cope with feeling overwhelmed and anxious when too many intrusive thoughts and trauma triggers occur among you and your alters?

Have you also tried internal family systems therapy and coping (aka "IFS")? This is where you learn to communicate with your alters inside and hold meetings with them so that you are cooperating and working together - especially when dealing with triggers and making major life decisions. How we started out was in a trauma treatment facility, where our assigned therapist (who happened to be the director of the program) asked us to write in a journal and have the alters respond back. It was amazing how the alters began responding back! Soon, I became more familiar with their voices and what they looked like in the "inside world." I learned to use art therapy to illustrate parts of my inside world and parts of my alters. I became more and more familiar with who I was and who my alters were. It was scary at first, but we got used to one another. We still have a lot of internal chaos from time to time, but we generally get along now. We're more co-conscious, which means that we don't lose as much time. The trauma treatment facility we attended in the past considered this "managed dissociation," because our dissociation never really goes away. It's a unique disorder where we are pretty much managing our dissociation instead of trying to eradicate it. For some, integration is a goal, but for others, co-consciousness is the ultimate goal. We chose to stick with co-consciousness as an ultimate goal, since there are too many dangers in the world that keep our dissociation and internal identities intact.

What helps is if you have a good therapist who can see you once a week or more, and if the therapist validates all of your parts and gives all of your parts room to speak in session. It also helps for the host/main person to be able to be co-conscious with those conversations, but it is also part of therapy if your system doesn't allow for that yet. Your T should be able to help you work on that - one small, manageable, and measurable therapeutic task at a time.

When there are other comorbidities involved, such as self-injury (SI) or suicidal ideation and attempts (SUI), then a safety plan with your T will help. The safety plan may include a combination of IFS coping and grounding techniques to deal with the dissociation and panic/overwhelm, respectively. However, a safety plan includes the following:

1. When you feel like harming yourself or considering suicide, call a crisis line or, when in distress, call the ER to see if they have room to take you and/or call your local emergency number (in the U.S., it is 9-1-1).

2. Let your T know via voice mail or email (if email is allowed) that you are in crisis and that you would like to schedule a session if possible, in addition to perhaps explaining whether you will call the crisis line and/or go to your nearest ER.

3. If you are able to manage your crisis, you can still do so with the help of a crisis hotline at any time - esp. as you are waiting for your T to arrive.

4. Use any of the coping skills your T has taught you, whether it be to distract, to use some CBT skills, to use some DBT skills, to use art as an expression (art through painting, drawings, sculptures, poetry writing, creative writing, blog writing, and/or music), to find supportive friends or family to speak with, to rest, to self-care like take a shower and/or give yourself a mani-pedi, etc.

5. Write a "reasons to live list" that you and your T have on file. This will be part of your safety plan, in addition to utilizing the coping skills your T has taught you. This is the list you will read whenever you are considering self-harm or suicide. My reasons to live list comprises my T (whom is my favorite person in the whole wide world right now), my daughter (whom I adopted and still have yet to form a relationship, now that she's an adult), my future goals (even though they seem quite unattainable at the moment, due to this ongoing pandemic), my desire to leave behind a good legacy, my desire to be happy about the things I can explore while on earth and living, etc. You can be creative with your reasons to live.

6. Form a safety contract with your T and yourself and your alters - this combines IFS coping along with making a pact with your T, as you are also in relationship with your T, and your T cares about you. The safety contract could include the safety plan, the reasons to live list perhaps positive affirmations, perhaps pacing-and-containing techniques, etc. You are important in this world - and even to us online here. Writing such affirmations down, even if you don't immediately believe them, can help you remain emotionally connected to those who do actually care about you, and to remember that which we sometimes forget when we have tons of pain we're dealing with. You could say that your T encouraged you to live when your T said ____, for instance. The contract is another way for you and your alters to be accountable to one another and with your T.

7. Make an emergency contact list that you can call during certain occasions, such as when you're in need to distract, you can call certain people. When you need to vent or talk about deep stuff, you can call certain safe, validating people only. Having a list with names and numbers for special crises will help you visualize what to do when your emotions are all over the place. You will have your safety contract, your safety plan, your reasons to live list, your affirmations, and your emergency contact lists in one place - perhaps a decorative notebook or framed artwork of some kind - so that you can easily read those things. That routine of reading those things while also using other coping skills that work from CBT or DBT or this tapping thing I hear others using, etc.., might help.

8. Continue processing with your T and with us online here. We're here to help, too, so utilize us here. Share what you feel, but also be proactive by trying to figure out what works best and what doesn't. Sometimes none of the coping skills work, and sometimes the coping skills will only work with certain things. Make a journal about that, too, so that you get to know what works with what circumstances and perhaps with certain alters.

9. Broaden your social network and increase your social capital. Many studies have shown that validating emotional social support in particular helps to protect against traumatic symptoms worsening and/or traumatic sequelae. Social capital also helps us to prevent both self-harm and future victimization from others. We have to choose our social support wisely, but emotional support is more than instrumental (it's more than seeing your T or getting financial or practical help from, say, a caregiver or a family member). Emotional support entails opening up and having a good balance of give-and-take in relationships. Interpersonal effectiveness, assertiveness training, and more will help in these areas of social skills. Increasing your social network will help build on your go-to list for crisis or emergency contacts. You might have a short list now, but you can journal and figure out ways to increase your list in the future. Don't give up on this. It's great that you're online here which is one form of social support. But we're all anonymous (for the most part), and we aren't in real time (we only show up online when we are able or have time, so you might not get an immediate response). You would get more of an immediate response from local friends or those you can call nationally by phone or through Zoom. Video conversations through Zoom or other platforms will help because then you can see at least another human instead of just hearing their voice or reading the words on a computer screen or via text. But it may take you time to get used to using all these tools. Just don't give up on making more friends and building closer relationships. It takes time.

Hope these suggestions help. Hang in there. Tell us how your T is working out.

[SprinkL3]

Originally Posted by stahrgeyzer

@SprinkL3 Thanks, I'm okay. Airbnbs aren't as private as an apartment but it forces me to talk to people every so often. It's a 4 bedroom airbnb shared house. It's like getting 4 different roommates every month or two. Some people make me feel comfortable. Some are scary, but I can always hide in my room.

Are you homeless? Homeless also includes those who don't have a permanent residence, such as those living in hotels, motels, friend's couches or spare rooms, and Airbnb's, etc. Many people don't realize that this method of temporary living is considered a form of homelessness. Thus, you might qualify for some benefits as a homeless person.

I was homeless in many different ways in my past. I lived in my car for a while and had to use some public shower somewhere for free when I was waiting on disability to get approved.

I was also homeless when I used to be on Section 8 and had to live in homeless shelters or on friends' couches until the next apartment finally got inspected and approved for me to move in. Thankfully, I was in a better position to leave that program, but it was there when I needed it. If you are in the U.S., you might qualify to get on the Section 8 waiting list. It's not immediate, but it's worth it to get on their list if you are still in the same situation a year or more down the road. Just make sure you keep checking in with them periodically, and you keep your address and phone number current with them.

If you can find a more permanent solution, such as renting a room from a person or family with a house or finding roommates, then you will be able to get out of homelessness by having a more stable living situation.

I'm so sorry you are struggling with all this. That would be anxiety-producing!

[SprinkL3]

Originally Posted by Breaking Dawn

I wake up to things that have been done all the time. If I have parts or alters, they never talk to me. I have voices all day long every day, but all of them claim that they don't know anything about these mysterious things being done. By the way, while I was typing this, they were yelling at me. Just now they're arguing with each other.

I am so sorry that you and your system are struggling, @Breaking Dawn

We struggled like that, too. But we have a good T who accepted our angry parts and listened to them. Our T also helped the rest of us to understand how to get along with our angry part and vice versa. The angry part is now more of a protector, though there may be some arguments here and there. It's basically a way that our brain is processing a lot of stressful information from the world, and how triggers can bring about a lot of anxiety and other feelings inside. It's hard to decide which direction to go when we are overwhelmed with triggers and/or potential danger. The different parts are probably just doing their best to protect and handle those triggers and/or dangers, some of which we may not even be aware of, which is why we get confused sometimes.

Internal family systems (IFS) therapy has helped us to work together by talking with one another, journaling with one another, etc.

Have you spoken with your T about ways to cope with all the internal stuff going on? It sounds like you and your alters are in a lot of pain right now.

((((safe hugs)))))

Originally Posted by SprinkL3

Have you tried grounding techniques to cope with feeling overwhelmed and anxious when too many intrusive thoughts and trauma triggers occur among you and your alters?

Have you also tried internal family systems therapy and coping (aka "IFS")? This is where you learn to communicate with your alters inside and hold meetings with them so that you are cooperating and working together - especially when dealing with triggers and making major life decisions. How we started out was in a trauma treatment facility, where our assigned therapist (who happened to be the director of the program) asked us to write in a journal and have the alters respond back. It was amazing how the alters began responding back! Soon, I became more familiar with their voices and what they looked like in the "inside world." I learned to use art therapy to illustrate parts of my inside world and parts of my alters. I became more and more familiar with who I was and who my alters were. It was scary at first, but we got used to one another. We still have a lot of internal chaos from time to time, but we generally get along now. We're more co-conscious, which means that we don't lose as much time. The trauma treatment facility we attended in the past considered this "managed dissociation," because our dissociation never really goes away. It's a unique disorder where we are pretty much managing our dissociation instead of trying to eradicate it. For some, integration is a goal, but for others, co-consciousness is the ultimate goal. We chose to stick with co-consciousness as an ultimate goal, since there are too many dangers in the world that keep our dissociation and internal identities intact.

What helps is if you have a good therapist who can see you once a week or more, and if the therapist validates all of your parts and gives all of your parts room to speak in session. It also helps for the host/main person to be able to be co-conscious with those conversations, but it is also part of therapy if your system doesn't allow for that yet. Your T should be able to help you work on that - one small, manageable, and measurable therapeutic task at a time.

When there are other comorbidities involved, such as self-injury (SI) or suicidal ideation and attempts (SUI), then a safety plan with your T will help. The safety plan may include a combination of IFS coping and grounding techniques to deal with the dissociation and panic/overwhelm, respectively. However, a safety plan includes the following:

1. When you feel like harming yourself or considering suicide, call a crisis line or, when in distress, call the ER to see if they have room to take you and/or call your local emergency number (in the U.S., it is 9-1-1).

2. Let your T know via voice mail or email (if email is allowed) that you are in crisis and that you would like to schedule a session if possible, in addition to perhaps explaining whether you will call the crisis line and/or go to your nearest ER.

3. If you are able to manage your crisis, you can still do so with the help of a crisis hotline at any time - esp. as you are waiting for your T to arrive.

4. Use any of the coping skills your T has taught you, whether it be to distract, to use some CBT skills, to use some DBT skills, to use art as an expression (art through painting, drawings, sculptures, poetry writing, creative writing, blog writing, and/or music), to find supportive friends or family to speak with, to rest, to self-care like take a shower and/or give yourself a mani-pedi, etc.

5. Write a "reasons to live list" that you and your T have on file. This will be part of your safety plan, in addition to utilizing the coping skills your T has taught you. This is the list you will read whenever you are considering self-harm or suicide. My reasons to live list comprises my T (whom is my favorite person in the whole wide world right now), my daughter (whom I adopted and still have yet to form a relationship, now that she's an adult), my future goals (even though they seem quite unattainable at the moment, due to this ongoing pandemic), my desire to leave behind a good legacy, my desire to be happy about the things I can explore while on earth and living, etc. You can be creative with your reasons to live.

6. Form a safety contract with your T and yourself and your alters - this combines IFS coping along with making a pact with your T, as you are also in relationship with your T, and your T cares about you. The safety contract could include the safety plan, the reasons to live list perhaps positive affirmations, perhaps pacing-and-containing techniques, etc. You are important in this world - and even to us online here. Writing such affirmations down, even if you don't immediately believe them, can help you remain emotionally connected to those who do actually care about you, and to remember that which we sometimes forget when we have tons of pain we're dealing with. You could say that your T encouraged you to live when your T said ____, for instance. The contract is another way for you and your alters to be accountable to one another and with your T.

7. Make an emergency contact list that you can call during certain occasions, such as when you're in need to distract, you can call certain people. When you need to vent or talk about deep stuff, you can call certain safe, validating people only. Having a list with names and numbers for special crises will help you visualize what to do when your emotions are all over the place. You will have your safety contract, your safety plan, your reasons to live list, your affirmations, and your emergency contact lists in one place - perhaps a decorative notebook or framed artwork of some kind - so that you can easily read those things. That routine of reading those things while also using other coping skills that work from CBT or DBT or this tapping thing I hear others using, etc.., might help.

8. Continue processing with your T and with us online here. We're here to help, too, so utilize us here. Share what you feel, but also be proactive by trying to figure out what works best and what doesn't. Sometimes none of the coping skills work, and sometimes the coping skills will only work with certain things. Make a journal about that, too, so that you get to know what works with what circumstances and perhaps with certain alters.

9. Broaden your social network and increase your social capital. Many studies have shown that validating emotional social support in particular helps to protect against traumatic symptoms worsening and/or traumatic sequelae. Social capital also helps us to prevent both self-harm and future victimization from others. We have to choose our social support wisely, but emotional support is more than instrumental (it's more than seeing your T or getting financial or practical help from, say, a caregiver or a family member). Emotional support entails opening up and having a good balance of give-and-take in relationships. Interpersonal effectiveness, assertiveness training, and more will help in these areas of social skills. Increasing your social network will help build on your go-to list for crisis or emergency contacts. You might have a short list now, but you can journal and figure out ways to increase your list in the future. Don't give up on this. It's great that you're online here which is one form of social support. But we're all anonymous (for the most part), and we aren't in real time (we only show up online when we are able or have time, so you might not get an immediate response). You would get more of an immediate response from local friends or those you can call nationally by phone or through Zoom. Video conversations through Zoom or other platforms will help because then you can see at least another human instead of just hearing their voice or reading the words on a computer screen or via text. But it may take you time to get used to using all these tools. Just don't give up on making more friends and building closer relationships. It takes time.

Hope these suggestions help. Hang in there. Tell us how your T is working out.

I tried the reasons to live list, and could not come up with 1 reason
not one

filling my face with christmas candy.

candy I don't need, but it's their, so..

watched a pretty good christmas show today called christmas in storyland. defenetly a fun one

nothing else

[Breaking Dawn]

I don't have a therapist at this time. I plan to find a good one when covid is gone. My voices & all the outer world difficulties are extremely overwhelming. I am learning new strengths from here & from other parts of my brain. I so very much love & appreciate MSF & all the people that make it possible. It's my very best place these days. Thank you, everyone.

[stahrgeyzer]

@SprinkL3

Thanks for the info! It's a lot so I'm still processing it and will need to reread it a few times. Sorry you had to go through homelessness. It's a lot of hardship. Been there and done that enough. Hopefully I'll a permanent place next year but at least now I have access to things like a bathroom and kitchen. Thank goodness a refrigerator! No frig is horrible. Being 100% homeless and sleeping on benches in cold weather is the worse, though. I only had to do that for about a week. A homeless guy got in my bag and took things like a knife and later on said he was going to kill me. It didn't bother me because the thought of dying was like thinking about getting the best christmas present ever. That's how I still feel.


I'm glad you have an amazing T who cares a lot about you. Thought I had that with my 1st T. She was the best, but when life exploded and I found myself on a high bridge I called her for one last sliver of hope. She was furious on the phone, not caring at all. She yelled at me saying if I didn't go to the car now she's hanging up on me. I almost hung up on her and jumped, but she then said things to make me think she cared and was going to help me. She lied to me on the phone just to get me in a psych ward and then called me the next day in the psych ward to say she's permanently terminating me. Anyway I can't ever trust Ts again!! I tried opening up to my final T. She, I think, finally got frustrated and gave up on me and started giving lot of hints she wasn't able to help me. But she hung in there fear of hurting me knowing how much abandonment from my 1st T killed me. I ended therapy a few months ago.


My last T taught me DBT. Only problem is that if one doesn't want to live then it doesn't seem to work, at least for me. Every week or so my brain seems to change making me very suicidal and often do planning and self harm. The one and only thing that keeps me alive is fear that there's an afterlife. Religion was shoved down my throat in childhood and I was very spiritual most of my adult life. Everyone taught me that suicide leads to either permanent torture in a lake of fire or like 1000s of years in the pit of torture. No amount of rational reasoning can get me to override those beliefs/fears.


Anyway, I left my last T a few months ago. Few months ago I talked to an IFS therapist. She tried to get me to do therapy, but I chickened out. My parts beg me to go. People say nothing but good things about IFS. But I can't. Not sure if I'll ever be ready for therapy again. I'm probably permanently traumatized from 1st T. 2nd T was horrible and rarely spoke. Third T was young and inexperienced and gave up on me and made me feel anger toward her for not caring. DID T was out right scary to me. He would ask me weird scary questions. He was forceful and aggressive, had horrible eye contact always looking at ground or away, talked to other people on the phone or laptop in middle of therapy, sometimes for like 10 minutes straight. Besides that he was a very knowledgeable experienced "clinical neuropsychologist" who seemed to want to help me. I like how every week he would checkup on if I meditated, cooked my own meals, went for walks, etc. Made me feel like he cared.


Well, maybe some people can't be saved. Maybe that's why my last T gave up on me. A few things do help me. PRetending I'm an emotionless robot. Going on 1 to 2 hour long walks every day. Meditation. Cooking. Cleaning. And thinking that ultimately it really doesn't matter. That it's all pointless. Everything is relative. That in all the infinite, I'm nothing and I don't matter. That pain is just a perspective, a point of view, an illusion. That hardship and pain is no worse than wealth and happiness. ...I guess that's Nihilism. I do have a little bit of hope that one day I'll be fixed and see light at the end of the tunnel, actually be happy, lose nihilism. I think one of the worst things that ever happened to me was losing spirituality. That was like the nuke of all nukes.

Oh, and maybe this sounds weird, but for some reason for my entire adult life the only thing I can think & dream about is helping the whole world in a big way. It's kind of a curse though, maybe.

[SprinkL3]

@stahrgeyzer - I've answered each section of your reply...

Thanks for the info! It's a lot so I'm still processing it and will need to reread it a few times.

Take your time. I write a lot, so I know it is a lot to process in one setting. But if you are in a good place to journal, you could perhaps get creative and write lists down based off of what I shared. You know yourself best and what works for you and what doesn't, so take what works and chuck the rest. You can always revisit and read the post again if you need more ideas, or ask questions here.

Sorry you had to go through homelessness. It's a lot of hardship. Been there and done that enough. Hopefully I'll a permanent place next year but at least now I have access to things like a bathroom and kitchen. Thank goodness a refrigerator! No frig is horrible. Being 100% homeless and sleeping on benches in cold weather is the worse, though. I only had to do that for about a week. A homeless guy got in my bag and took things like a knife and later on said he was going to kill me. It didn't bother me because the thought of dying was like thinking about getting the best christmas present ever. That's how I still feel.

I'm so sorry you are currently struggling with homelessness. I figured as much from your posts and descriptions. It's one of the most depressing places to be - even if you have some shelter. Homelessness is traumatic in and of itself. It encompasses traumatic loss, traumatic grief, increased safety concerns (even if you feel suicidal or self-harm), traumatic identity shifts, traumatic lifestyle changes (adjustment problems), and increased anxiety. All of that is enough to wear someone thin.

Being exposed to danger and then having the negative thoughts within reinforced is not a good cycle at all for recovery. I once was a psych major and student affiliate of the APA in the U.S. There is a psychologist who is also a painter, and he spent time in California's Skid Row homeless area to interview some of the homeless there while also painting them. He published a book. I'll need to find it and share it sometime. It's interesting because there's diversity among homeless persons. One used to work for the government as the scientist/doctor who assisted with capital punishment. He couldn't handle the stress of that job (perhaps guilt, trauma of being an active participant in ending human lives - albeit per the law), so he decided to become homeless (not because he didn't have money, but rather because that is what he thought he deserved). He died before the book was published. It's a sad life to live.

Please, whatever you do, please seek safe friends, safe social networks, good therapy, etc. It's sad how there's few therapists who will reach out pro-bono (if legal) to the homeless, who often lack health insurance, money to pay copays, and/or identification. Please also take advantage of applying for any government aid or assistance while also seeking rehabilitation, if you are a high-functioning person with mental illness. If you aren't able to rehabilitate back into work, then do what you can to get on a program so that you have a more stable living situation. That's what I did. It took a while, but I was able to do it. It's not easy though.

I'm glad you have an amazing T who cares a lot about you. Thought I had that with my 1st T. She was the best, but when life exploded and I found myself on a high bridge I called her for one last sliver of hope. She was furious on the phone, not caring at all. She yelled at me saying if I didn't go to the car now she's hanging up on me. I almost hung up on her and jumped, but she then said things to make me think she cared and was going to help me. She lied to me on the phone just to get me in a psych ward and then called me the next day in the psych ward to say she's permanently terminating me. Anyway I can't ever trust Ts again!! I tried opening up to my final T. She, I think, finally got frustrated and gave up on me and started giving lot of hints she wasn't able to help me. But she hung in there fear of hurting me knowing how much abandonment from my 1st T killed me. I ended therapy a few months ago.

I'm so sorry you struggled with T's. I'm not sure what the legalities are concerning T's and their clients with suicidal ideation and attempts, but it seems rather unethical for a T to just abandon you like that. It seems like maybe the T has some unresolved issues of her own to abruptly end therapy like that. If she was in fact incompetent to handle your case, and/or if she felt like her malpractice insurance fees would increase or something (which might be an issue, I don't know, but I'm guessing), then there should at least be some alternative care in place so that she doesn't just abruptly end treatment with you. She could have had one final session with you while introducing you to a new T who could take over, or she could have done something different so that she was more ethical. People seek therapy when they are struggling with suicidal thoughts and attempts, but it's sad when therapy rejects such cases if they don't follow the rules enough, etc. People in society are told to seek therapy when they are feeling suicidal, but what they don't understand is that therapy often rejects them and only the authorities are called for a psych hold, which feels like a punitive lockdown instead of actual therapy that can treat suicidal tendencies. The system lacks care in this area and makes psychologists more prone to reject such clients. It's sad.

But don't give up on therapy. There is a good therapist out there who will treat you. It's a matter of being persistent. I found mine by mere luck.

My last T taught me DBT. Only problem is that if one doesn't want to live then it doesn't seem to work, at least for me. Every week or so my brain seems to change making me very suicidal and often do planning and self harm. The one and only thing that keeps me alive is fear that there's an afterlife. Religion was shoved down my throat in childhood and I was very spiritual most of my adult life. Everyone taught me that suicide leads to either permanent torture in a lake of fire or like 1000s of years in the pit of torture. No amount of rational reasoning can get me to override those beliefs/fears.

I/we struggle with those very same things concerning religion being shoved down our throats and being used as a caution, warning, judgment, as opposed to a beneficial solution, comfort, community-based cohesion, and form of social support. It's sad when religion gets misused in that way, and even more tragic when spiritual abuse and/or ritual abuse become part of a person's past trauma history. I'm so sorry you went through that, too.

Your reasons to live list - if you decide to create one - should not include something that makes you feel obligated. Although it would comfort the living who would rather see you alive, the point of you healing for you is for you to feel safe and comfortable within your own skin and within this life. It is very painful and difficult at times, so I am now validating you on the struggles you deal with. But you can do it.

DBT is designed to help people with personality disorders, but it has also been expanded for use among those with PTSD, CPTSD, and military traumas. Not everyone can follow DBT in its entirety, however. If you struggle with brain fog, the acronyms will just mesh together and be too much. Also, if you don't struggle with a personality disorder, then some of the stuff mentioned in such treatments may seem like "common sense" items - or things that just don't seem to jive with what your needs are. It's really designed to help you regulate your emotions for yourself and with others. But it's not for everyone. I explained to my T how it really didn't work well for me. And the groups offered would sometimes exacerbate trauma-related disorders when there are deviant members in the group who become violent or dangerous (which was my experience), so I was able to leave such groups entirely and focus on CBT for trauma only. CBT helped me better than DBT. That might be the case for you in terms of you struggling with suicidal ideation and attempts. You can always ask a therapist to work with CBT instead of DBT and see how that goes for you.

Anyway, I left my last T a few months ago. Few months ago I talked to an IFS therapist. She tried to get me to do therapy, but I chickened out. My parts beg me to go. People say nothing but good things about IFS. But I can't. Not sure if I'll ever be ready for therapy again. I'm probably permanently traumatized from 1st T. 2nd T was horrible and rarely spoke. Third T was young and inexperienced and gave up on me and made me feel anger toward her for not caring. DID T was out right scary to me. He would ask me weird scary questions. He was forceful and aggressive, had horrible eye contact always looking at ground or away, talked to other people on the phone or laptop in middle of therapy, sometimes for like 10 minutes straight. Besides that he was a very knowledgeable experienced "clinical neuropsychologist" who seemed to want to help me. I like how every week he would checkup on if I meditated, cooked my own meals, went for walks, etc. Made me feel like he cared.

Yeah, that T doesn't sound like a good, safe T for you, and he is certainly not a good fit for what you need in therapy. You do need a T who specializes in both dissociation and trauma, which is challenging to find these days - but not impossible. You can prescreen them via an initial phone conversation when you mention that you need specific treatments for dissociation, and that you also have had bad and traumatic experiences recently (not just in childhood) and that you have also had triggering therapy experiences as well. A good T will sound comforting and validating; a not-so-good T will sound judgmental with questions that seem more like gaslighting or interrogations. You'll get a good sense after interviewing some T's on the phone. You don't have to make a commitment to seeing them, but get used to calling them and being empowered to interview them. After all, you are hiring them to fulfill a service; you are a consumer - the patient, the client, and you have rights. Feel empowered by doing so, which will help you and your parts/alters feel safer in approaching therapy again, eventually. You might even have jokester parts who can laugh after completing an interview with a therapist. We did that a lot before finally agreeing to see a therapist. It was our way of saving money from copays on one- or two-time visits before ending or ghosting the therapists.

Well, maybe some people can't be saved. Maybe that's why my last T gave up on me.

Your last T gave up on you because your last T was incompetent and bordering on unethical when abandoning you. That should never be a reflection of who you are or your self-worth. It's not that you need saving or rescue, though that is sometimes what us trauma survivors crave sometimes. But it is that you need validating, comforting, caring support that will help you heal, grow, mature, and find meaning and purpose in this life again - when so much has been stripped from you in the past. (((safe hugs))) hang in there!

A few things do help me. Pretending I'm an emotionless robot. Going on 1 to 2 hour long walks every day. Meditation. Cooking. Cleaning. And thinking that ultimately it really doesn't matter. That it's all pointless. Everything is relative. That in all the infinite, I'm nothing and I don't matter. That pain is just a perspective, a point of view, an illusion. That hardship and pain is no worse than wealth and happiness. ...I guess that's Nihilism. I do have a little bit of hope that one day I'll be fixed and see light at the end of the tunnel, actually be happy, lose nihilism. I think one of the worst things that ever happened to me was losing spirituality. That was like the nuke of all nukes.

It sounds like you struggle with ambivalence, a lot of painful emotional storms in the midst of surviving, and pain amid hopeful feelings. That's all part of the subtle nuances of grief - grief from how we feel when juxtaposed to the hope we really crave and desire (even though we're afraid to feel hope). My T reminds us that it's okay to feel negative emotions and feelings, and that it's okay to process that in therapy or even by ourselves and with the help of our parts. My T says that we weren't allowed to feel or express emotions as children, so it makes sense that we feel this struggle now - with the adult selves and the littles still being littles and handling all that pain inside.

Hold onto the hope. It sounds like you are off to a good start with coping skills by distracting and using some mindfulness meditation on walks, etc. Keep doing that, even though you may not be able to feel pleasure from such things. What I don't think most professionals get about traumatic sequelae is that it numbs us and almost gives us anhedonia - the inability to feel pleasure, which is possibly why there are treatment-resistant trauma client as well as treatment-resistant depression clients. It's hard to treat something that includes components of pleasure (such a with CBT or otherwise) when you have no pleasure feelings at all, or when you do feel slight pleasure but are afraid and otherwise conditioned to not feel them. It's a matter of helping you to feel those things again, and sometimes it begins by allowing yourself to feel the negative emotions that surface along with the pleasure emotions. Eventually, the pleasure emotions will become stronger, but it takes time to deal with the coexisting dialectical nature of trauma. You can do it, but you have to keep working at it. It's like training a muscle, only you are training your brain. That's what coping skills do - is help you with that. So, when you are able to process traumas with your T, you will know how to cope with the feelings better - you and your alters/parts inside.

Oh, and maybe this sounds weird, but for some reason for my entire adult life the only thing I can think & dream about is helping the whole world in a big way. It's kind of a curse though, maybe.

I think that is an awesome dream, and maybe that is your PURPOSE in life! You can do many things to help out the world. If you're good at science, for instance, you can help out the world by doing research and finding either pathways, etiologies, or treatments/cures. If you are good with helping others, despite your struggles with helping yourself, a career in psychology might be another option. If you are good at organizing, artwork, numbers, math, etc., you can help the world in many ways based on your (a) skill set and (b) passion. Don't give up hope on that, and don't consider that a "curse." It's a desire and dream of yours, and that is important to hold onto. The fact that you have a dream means that you can find pleasure again in some meaningful way, even if it is a struggle to feel pleasure.

Don't give up. I hear you, and I'm sure there are many others who will hear you and help you, too! We all need support and cheerleaders in our lives to help us achieve our own personalized goals - whether it be to heal emotionally, lose weight, get trained for a new career, or just live life.

[SprinkL3]

Originally Posted by raging vortex

I tried the reasons to live list, and could not come up with 1 reason
not one

@raging vortex

We felt the same way when we first started this with our T.

It was challenging to find reasons to live, and sometimes we'd feel compelled at times to cross off some of the reasons. But we were open and honest with our T about those feelings. She helped us by reminding us how much life we had left, how much strength she saw in us, and how our goals that were lost in the past were still achievable, but perhaps in different ways now due to our newfound limitations. But it take starting somewhere. The fact that you acknowledge that you struggle with finding one item for that list is something you can bring up in therapy. It's something you can work on as a start.

Please don't give up. Please hang in there.

You have purpose in life, but it's a journey to find it. And sometimes we have to find our purpose over and over again, depending on life circumstances. And that's okay, too.

Each of your parts inside have a purpose in life.

[SprinkL3]

Originally Posted by Breaking Dawn

I don't have a therapist at this time. I plan to find a good one when covid is gone. My voices & all the outer world difficulties are extremely overwhelming. I am learning new strengths from here & from other parts of my brain. I so very much love & appreciate MSF & all the people that make it possible. It's my very best place these days. Thank you, everyone.

We're glad you are learning new strengths, @Breaking Dawn

Sometimes finding a therapist is a journey, and it takes time to do so. I'm glad you are able to find support on MSF and through your strengths.

Hang in there.

[SprinkL3]

I think we dissociated yesterday. I certainly can only remember bits and pieces. I'm okay though.

[stahrgeyzer]

I'm feeling very nervous and anxious lately and have that desire to run away from society. My siblings are acting very strange lately. It's to the point where my heart goes racing throughout the day so I have this feeling I'll end up in the forest within a few months. Only sad part is I don't know who to give Sally away to. She's my only friend, a lucky bamboo plant.

[Breaking Dawn]

@stahrgeyzer, is Sally happy where she is?

[stahrgeyzer]

Breaking Dawn, not sure but a few of her leaves have been dying the past few months. Plants are sensitive so maybe she's not happy lately.


If I have to go to the forest I could give her to my cousin nearby.

[stahrgeyzer]

Yesterday I was getting a lot of those very deep "knowing" feelings that I'm trapped in some creatures simulation type of a reality being probed and studied. Words could never put it in words. It makes me feel like nobody is real in outer and inner world.

[Breaking Dawn]

I've had feelings like that lots of times throughout my life.

[stahrgeyzer]

I was listening to doctors talk about the new omnicron saying it's doubling in the population every 2 days and everyone will get it. Idk, one doctor even said most people will have it in a few weeks. But I was thinking how I hide from humans and how strange it would be if the only last survivors of the human race would be people with DID.

I'm feeling a little better today but still want to be a robot.

[Breaking Dawn]

I don't see anything wrong with being a robot. It could fit with mindfulness & being in the moment. You can look around your room & say, 'that's a dresser, that's a lamp, that's a window...' etc. It can keep your emotions more stiff. You can tell them you're Mr. Spock & they aren't logical.

[SprinkL3]

I'll return to this thread when I'm more awake. I've been dissociative and fatigued for the past few days.

I protect myself with masks, gloves, goggles, and clothing. I also protect myself with distancing and isolation. I do whatever I can to avoid getting sick with any illness, not just Covid, since who knows when the hospitals will be overwhelmed again. It's a pain living like this. My alters help. I'm wondering if DID becomes a strength in these times.

I have OCD, PTSD, DID, CFS, IBS, and a bunch of other things. I swear that all the acronyms I have will eventually add up to the alphabet. I'm joking, but I'm also exhausted.

This pandemic exhausts me. But I still fight the good fight with vaccinating, masking, distancing, ventilating, cleaning, and isolating. It's now become my new norm routine, or my OCD ritual, however you want to look at it. I see it as pure survival.

Even though we may not get too ill when vaccinated, we could still get long-Covid, which means more copayments and more illnesses and a shortened lifespan. I can't live like that if I know I had it within me to prevent it. So I continue to prevent it.

I work with my alters to help our system be aware of what we're doing. It's hardest on the littles and teens who want to go out and do stuff in life. But the protectors within will keep protecting. We're trying to find a balance.

Dosage of the virus matters, so even if everyone does eventually get a whiff here and there of the SARS-CoV-2 droplets and aerosols, it may not be enough to cause COVID-19 or it may be a milder version of Covid-19 if the dosage isn't as great as others (such as having a small dosage from one person versus being in an indoor crowd of multiple infected people without masks).

Better masks like N99 or N95 will help protect against Covid-19. They are expensive, but worth the cost if you can afford it.

Communicating with alters helps to keep us all safe and on the same page.

[Fuzzybear]

Some grrr here re some... stuff...

[SprinkL3]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

Some grrr here re some... stuff...

@Fuzzybear (((safe hugs)))