I'm the one that's wrong

I agree with Bella01. At this point, you shouldn't be thinking about rebuilding a marriage or anything other than getting you in a better place, and I mean that above and apart from being in a relationship. If you're not better, than what really do you have to give to your marriage should you reclaim it for an improbable third time.

May yourself into someone a woman would want to be married to and then the right person will come into your life.

Bella - you're correct, it still is painful. It doesn't help any that I'm constantly reminded of my lover. I live in the apartment we rented together. I've gotten rid of everything she left here when she moved out, including some things of great sentimental value that really hurt to throw out. Can't get rid of absolutely everything, though. What am I going to do, throw out all of my pots and pans and dishes and silverware because we bought them together? When I go to bed at night, I have to sleep in the bed I bought for us, that we spent so many nights sleeping together and, um, not sleeping together in. Can't just throw that out, I have to sleep somewhere and I can't afford another one. Even the car I'm driving I bought from her. Reminders everywhere, as much as I've tried to eliminate them.

My wife and I are back on speaking terms and spending a little time together, but neither of us is ready for me to move back home. We both still hurt too much, although for different reasons. Still working things out, but it looks like we will be signing a legal separation agreement soon. That will provide for her and the kids financially while we both take time to work out our own issues. We are both plenty guilty for the condition we allowed our marriage to deteriorate into even before I decided to leave for an old lover. Will take lots of time before we're even ready to work on the marriage together, and it still may wind up in divorce. Only time will tell.

I understand the reminders / pain thing. Like you, I had them all around me. OK, Bow, let's have a pityparty :

Talk about hard. One of mine (my FIRST love whom I was to marry, whom had a child that I loved, with whom we were already trying to add more kids, whose ex-wife I got along with, whose family I spent time with, who my parents approved of, passed away suddenly from an accident) .

And how did I find out? I heard it on an answering machine from one friend to another while I was housesitting. No one knew how to get ahold of me and the news had already started flying around.

And he was a celeb, so I couldn't even watch tv or look at billboards because it KILLED me (meaning I had NO WHERE safe to go OUTSIDE, and at home I couldn't watch tv, read magazines, look at certain items, etc.)

And for some inexplicable reason, every time I went somewhere, out of the blue, some complete stranger would be talking about something that had to do with him...

I was a disaster...

YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS WITH YOUR T. JUST GET IT OUT! You have to mourn. which means there are several steps you have to go through to get over this former Love.

(Your ex wife is NOT the answer. And I write ex because you divorced her in your heart and mind a long time ago, before any of this mess with you guys began. You both did. SHE DID THE SECOND SHE PUT HANDS ON YOU)

I KNOW. I never would have gotten over him. NEVER. Had I not spoken with a T, grieved and with a little divine intervention (another story for another time if you want to know).

Then, a year+ after beloved #1 passed, I met my former fiancee. We were friends for 1 year prior to me even having a clue he was interested (I didn't even know he liked me, and he was HOT). I swore after that whole mess with #1, loss of everything...I would never love again. NEVER.

And #2 knew that, too. And we were together for EIGHT YEARS, and I refused to get married, consider marriage, having children, etc. Because I never wanted to go through that kind of hell again.

But he was awesome and persistent and he got me. Totally. And I finally gave up resisting. And we got engaged. And I picked the dress, flowers, venue...he had 2 kids from a former marriage that I fell in love with.

And a month later, a month after we got engaged, he was diagnosed with Stage 4 aggressive cancer. And I stuck with him. And then he died.

So, the point to my story is there is no guarantee. We are all where we are. But frankly, I NEVER in a million years would trade one thing for having the time that I did with either one. They were both precious and wonderful, fabulous and gave me gifts I never could have imagined.

Yes, I am a freekin' wreck, but I would never go back. The past is in the past. There is more in front of you. I promise.

Take care of YOU, first.

Trying hard to take care of me. Going to support groups, intensive outpatient therapy, talking to a pastor, attended a church based 12 step recovery group last night, everything I can think of. I posted over in bipolar that I'm looking for a new T because I don't think the one I have is doing me much good.

Going to court in the morning where I will sign away my house and over half of my income. I can't live on what will be left.

Totally defeated right now

Don't know if I'll make it.

Rose - I should have added, thanks for sharing that. You went through far more than I have but you're still trying to help me. Thank you.

I, by no means, ever claim to be a good person, who has always done the right things....if I did, that would make me a hypocrite.....I did alot of things to my marriage that I wasnt proud of (as he did too), but I always find when assigning blame, it kills me when people come up with percentages.....who cares....90/10, 40/60, 80/20......some days you are the crappier person, somedays your spouse is the crappier person....it evens out.....
But in all my wrong doings, I have learned alot.....no one ever owes you....it doesnt matter what you try and do to make things right, it is hard for the human spirit to forget.....we can forgive until the cows come home.....but forgetting.....well thats another story.....Im not trying to sit up on my pedestal here bowhunt, but honestly? You need to back off and leave your wife alone. You cant imagine the hurt done to her because you arent her.....and she cant imagine the hurt she did to you, because she is not you.....You both need to find yourselves, by yourselves, and see where that leads you. I wish you both the best of luck, as I know its a hard time....

Bow, I had absolutely nothing left after #2 passed away. everything I had (literally) was gone (you were speaking about material things so I understand that, as well).

I had to ask my parents for help which was awful and made me feel even worse because I was so dependent on them for a time. And my mother is abusive which made me feel worse. But I had no choice. I would not be here had my parents not stepped in.

And although it absolutely destroyed any ounce I dignity and self-esteem I had left to have to rely on my parents, trust me, if you are fortunate enough (and it seems you are), lean on them for a bit until you can get back on your feet because it beats the alternative.

That said, Bow, make a security pact.

I am telling you, after all many of us have been through, you can and will get through this. You can come out on the other end. And believe it or not, you will feel stronger and better. Just keep inching along, OK.

You have a lot of things to address. Including missing the thrills of your career (I read your post...it's not the first time I've heard those exact words come out of the mouths of your brothers).

You are not alone. You WILL get through this. Even though you don't realize it, you have so much to offer once you start feeling better. I promise you! You have given a lot to us just by sharing and kept some of us going and you probably didn't even know it.

And what if that other woman came back to you saying that her hubby had abused her again? Saying she realized what a mistake she had made going back to him, and that you were the one she loved, and wanted you back again?

I don't know about you, but I think I know what you might do.

I know that I left my husband & it wasn't because of infidelity on either side, but the fighting had been horrible from the beginning.....issues started even before we got married, but I ended up staying in the marriage for 33 years before finally leaving......we couldn't get a divorce because of the financial mess he got us into.....lack of being responsible when my depression hit & I was no longer able to be the financially responsible one.

Interesting thing was that after I left & was able to look back, I realized that there really was no LOVE in the marriage from the beginning on either part......I don't mean the words "I love you" but the actions that prove it (& I don't mean sex). I finally left because there were certain issues like being lied to about financial things & sometimes the lie wasn't specifically a lie, it was not saying anything at all......I couldn't continue living with a person like that & after realizing that there was no love, leaving was the best thing I should have done long before I ever did. My last comment to my husband was that if he chose to change, he would let me know & would be able to prove to me the changes & only then would I ever consider even reconsidering the possibility of returning to the marriage. It's been 5 years since I kicked him out of my life & I still feel it was the best thing I have ever done.

There are certain things that happen in a marriage that destroy the love that needs to be in a marriage. I know that all things are possible through God & that he can help fix the most broken marriages......but the main thing is that God knows the hearts of both people in the marriage & it takes a pure heart for a marriage to be reconstructed after all the damage that has been done.

I truly believe that my lack of love for my husband & my lack of respect for him from even before we got married was the destruction of our marriage from even before the wedding.....some things aren't possible to repair because of the length or time & the damage that has really been done. I feel it's better to just cut the losses & call it the end if you can afford the divorce. If you are honest about your love for your wife.....they it can be proved all over again & your life together can happen again after the divorce.......but the things you have said & the way you have said them about the lady you ran off with, you have an issue with your marriage that if you aren't able to resolve.......the reason you left in the first place is only going to be there for you to do the same thing again.

You also commented that your job was your love (btw....have you seen the movie Fireproof?)....it sounds very similar to your situation.......

my career was my escape from my bad marriage....my engineering career was a goal I had all my life.....to have a professional career & be more than my parents ever were. Maybe the love of your career has something to do with escaping a problemed marriage in the first place even before you had an affair & another affair.

I know that unless you really learn who you are & what values you really have, getting married in the first place is not the right thing to do let along going back to a marriage that was rocky.....probably because neither of you had your own lives well defined or they have grown apart rather than together.

It's definitely more important to figure out who you are & what values you truly want to bring to the marriage & be honest with your wife because if you don't change your values & the way you are looking at life, you ready to make a marriage work & probably weren't from the beginning just like my husband wasn't.

Wow, this thread just keeps popping up when I least expect it... One thing I posted about quite a while back but haven't really mentioned since is that the other woman, my girlfriend, lover, whatever you want to call her, did contact me again. I know from her facebook message, which I posted, and also from several conversations with a third party, which I did not post, that she had been following me closely online and was concerned about me, saying she was sorry, that I deserved to be happy, and that she thinks about me every day. If I wanted to try to get her away from the boyfriend and back with me, that would have been the time, but I didn't try. I probably said more than I should have in my response to her (posted in this forum), but I never made any attempt to get her back. For better or worse, my mind is made up on this issue. I can't say I didn't enjoy the time we spent together, but I put myself in the position of having to make a choice between trying to win back my girlfriend or trying to restore my marriage, and I chose my marriage. That choice has been made, and cannot be changed without a lot of hurt to everyone involved, including me.

Since it's been a long time since I posted in this thread, here's a quick update: my wife and I are on better than speaking terms again. We talk to each other on the phone several times a day, and see each other at least a few times a week. We are still living apart, but I get to the house to see her and the kids a couple times a week and sometimes she comes to my apartment, occasionally with the kids. We have started dating each other again as if we are totally starting over from when we met back in college. Money is a huge concern, so our dates are pretty simple, just meeting to walk in a park or have lunch at my place. The important part is we are starting to actually enjoy spending time together again.

My wife and I have both met separately with a T who does a lot of work with couples and is willing to help us. We both like her and trust her, but she doesn't think we are ready to work with her as a couple yet. We have been working through a textbook/workbook set on healing a marriage after an affair, and the T wants us to finish working through those on our own before we start counseling with her to avoid confusion between our book, her counseling, and the book she wants us to work through.

We are about halfway through the workbook, working now on the chapter where each of us has to write a letter asking forgiveness for our part in creating the marriage problems that made an affair possible. I also have to write another forgiveness letter not just for the affair in general, but for each specific thing I did. I have to apologize and ask forgiveness for fantasizing about an old lover, for making initial contact with her, for meeting her again, for taking her to places that were special to my wife and me, and many other things even before I get to the glaringly obvious point of asking forgiveness for having sex with her. I already wrote the "contributions" letter about what I did to damage the marriage; now we have to sit down together and read our letters to each other, ask forgiveness, then each write a response to the other's letter. Then I have to write the "affair" forgiveness letter, which is my responsibility alone. My wife doesn't have to do anything like that, just listen to mine and respond to it. That part will be very difficult, but I have accepted it as part of my penance for making the choices I made.

So that's where we are right now. Talking and seeing each other again, beginning to forgive each other (although she obviously has more to forgive than I do), dating again and beginning to rebuild trust. We are getting the help we can through self help books and workbooks, and preparing for counseling together as a couple as soon as we finish our own books and my T thinks I have progressed enough for couple's therapy. Our kids are gone this week on a summer church trip, so we will have plenty of time to spend working on our assignments alone and together. We even plan for me to spend at least one night at the house, which would be the first night I've spent in my own home since the middle of January. My major goal is to be able to move back into my house, while of course continuing counseling. Getting the marriage back to where it was before the affair isn't good enough. It has to be better, back to the point where we actually enjoyed being together. That's what we're working toward.

BTW, yes, I have seen Fireproof. I can't remember the plot exactly, but if I recall, the main character was married to his job just like I was. It was nothing for me to work 90 to 100 hours weeks working overtime during the summer and over the holidays when other guys were taking vacation time. I went most years without taking any vacation time at all. My personal records, which I sincerely hope no one is ever crazy enough to break, were working 133 hours in a week and being on duty for 60 consecutive hours - and that's not counting the three hour round trip to work and back. I don't know if working like that was unconsciously intended as an escape from my marriage, but it had to have hurt our marriage for me to be gone that much.

"So that's where we are right now. Talking and seeing each other again, beginning to forgive each other (although she obviously has more to forgive than I do),"

I don't agree, Bow. Anyone that lays hands on anyone else has much more to be sorry for - and it's for you to do the forgiving.

If you can forgive someone that physically abused you, more power to you.

People go to prison for domestic violence.

But you'll keep prostrating yourself in order to gain your material goods back.

You are setting such a horrible example for others that have been through domestic violence.

Best of luck to you. Take care.