[Silver Ninja]

I have a (step) grand-daughter who is 8 years old & is still wetting herself. She has been suffering from UTIs, legs that are rashed & rubbed raw. All other tissue in that area raw & bloody because of the urine staying on the skin. She now wears adult diapers because nothing seems to help.

She has been to doctors, have had tests run, be on a special diet, can't eat or drink after 5pm (she goes to bed at 9pm). The the last thing that is being considered is a special medication to stop it.

She was potty trained but it started when she went to school. When asked: she says "I don't know why, I just don't feel like getting up & going to the bath room." She's really bad about not wanting to raise her hand at school, to go to the bathroom, she just goes & sits in her wet panties until she gets home. She also embarrassed & doesn't like to tell anyone; in school & out. She isn't allowed to have a purse so she can't change & I have no idea how the school handles the problem. I also understand that a lot of kids, both boys & girls, in her class do the same thing.

I found out that she has to ask her mother or her dad for a new diaper & it embarrasses her so she doesn't say anything. I think that she is old enough to get them herself & not have to ask (announce) when it happens.

She has been punished (I have no idea how), enticed, etc., & nothing works.

Growing up, her family has moved around a lot, because of her dad's job. Several times, they have lived with relatives because he was going to stay in the area for a short time. (A teacher told her that she was "homeless" because she lived with relatives!)

She has two sisters, one 1-1/2 years old & the other is 6 months. When the youngest was born, she is ignored & has to take care of her sisters; when she isn't in school.

Recently, her father (who she adores) has been working longer hours & she doesn't see him as much as she would like.

Before the youngest was born, she came to visit with her mom. Her mom was always telling her what to do, to the point that my husband had to step in & make her stop! Her mother bathed her, brushed her hair; which was an event, her mother claimed she was a "pre-madonna" & didn't like her hair touched. Found out that her mom had the wrong brush & pulled her hair when she brushed it! I used the right brush & spent 30 minutes to brush out the tangles. They also spent an hour in a very heated argument about wearing the diapers. (She is also very outspoken!)

I want her to come visit this summer. I know this may sound terrible but I'm concerned (& feel guilty) that because I live in an apartment & the is carpet ruined, the very well behaved dog will be blamed, & I will have to pay a hefty deposit to replace the carpet.

Unfortunately, I've only paper trained puppies & would want to do the same but I'm afraid it would be considered child abuse. (All you do is have a special spot, with paper, & when you catch the puppy in the act, you place the puppy on the paper & praise them. = Catch her in the act, take her to the bathroom & praise her.)

My thought is that she may have a neurological condition that doesn't allow the bladder tell the brain that it is full.

I'm very concerned about the mental & physical scarring that is taking place but I'm not sure what to do.

[*Laurie*]

Hi, Welcome to PC.

The child sounds profoundly emotionally disturbed. The only exception to that would be if she does, indeed, have a true physical abnormality. Since she has been seen by doctors, I'm guessing that they've run the appropriate tests and such?

Has she been seen by a psychiatrist? Because I would say that is a must, an absolute must.

That little girl needs help and she needs it fast. I am very serious.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Silver Ninja

I have a (step) grand-daughter who is 8 years old & is still wetting herself. She has been suffering from UTIs, legs that are rashed & rubbed raw. All other tissue in that area raw & bloody because of the urine staying on the skin. She now wears adult diapers because nothing seems to help.

She has been to doctors, have had tests run, be on a special diet, can't eat or drink after 5pm (she goes to bed at 9pm). The the last thing that is being considered is a special medication to stop it.

She was potty trained but it started when she went to school. When asked: she says "I don't know why, I just don't feel like getting up & going to the bath room." She's really bad about not wanting to raise her hand at school, to go to the bathroom, she just goes & sits in her wet panties until she gets home. She also embarrassed & doesn't like to tell anyone; in school & out. She isn't allowed to have a purse so she can't change & I have no idea how the school handles the problem. I also understand that a lot of kids, both boys & girls, in her class do the same thing.

I found out that she has to ask her mother or her dad for a new diaper & it embarrasses her so she doesn't say anything. I think that she is old enough to get them herself & not have to ask (announce) when it happens.

She has been punished (I have no idea how), enticed, etc., & nothing works.

Growing up, her family has moved around a lot, because of her dad's job. Several times, they have lived with relatives because he was going to stay in the area for a short time. (A teacher told her that she was "homeless" because she lived with relatives!)

She has two sisters, one 1-1/2 years old & the other is 6 months. When the youngest was born, she is ignored & has to take care of her sisters; when she isn't in school.

Recently, her father (who she adores) has been working longer hours & she doesn't see him as much as she would like.

Before the youngest was born, she came to visit with her mom. Her mom was always telling her what to do, to the point that my husband had to step in & make her stop! Her mother bathed her, brushed her hair; which was an event, her mother claimed she was a "pre-madonna" & didn't like her hair touched. Found out that her mom had the wrong brush & pulled her hair when she brushed it! I used the right brush & spent 30 minutes to brush out the tangles. They also spent an hour in a very heated argument about wearing the diapers. (She is also very outspoken!)

I want her to come visit this summer. I know this may sound terrible but I'm concerned (& feel guilty) that because I live in an apartment & the is carpet ruined, the very well behaved dog will be blamed, & I will have to pay a hefty deposit to replace the carpet.

Unfortunately, I've only paper trained puppies & would want to do the same but I'm afraid it would be considered child abuse. (All you do is have a special spot, with paper, & when you catch the puppy in the act, you place the puppy on the paper & praise them. = Catch her in the act, take her to the bathroom & praise her.)

My thought is that she may have a neurological condition that doesn't allow the bladder tell the brain that it is full.

I'm very concerned about the mental & physical scarring that is taking place but I'm not sure what to do.

since you are not the childs parent and do not have custody of the child you will not be able to take the child to get any form of testing.

paper training an 8 yr old child abuse yes here in american treating a child like a dog or pet, paper training or making them sleep on paper instead of a bed because of bed wetting is considered abuse.

I also have young relatives that are bed wetters. they have been tested and nothing came of it. some children just dont have the right nerve / body growth that enables them to always know when they have to use the bathroom when asleep and sometimes when awake.

the relatives parents were told to keep documentations like how many pull ups / diapers the child goes through, the childs daily routines and also things like stressors.

this child is also required to ask not get the pull ups on their own. this is a two fold reason... the first and most important it's training the child to notice on their own when their body needs the bathroom. kind of like potty training all over again when potty training a 2 yr old you catch the child right after they have gone and point it out that they have gone and then lets go use the bathroom and clean up and change pants. older children you do it the same way, the child first has to learn that they have wet their pants and needs a change, then they learn to catch their self before they go. just the normal way of potty training process.

the second part of the process.... if the child gets the pull ups on their own the parents have no way to tell the doctor how many pull ups the child goes through on a daily basis.... think of it this way when you go to the doctors what do thay want to know.... whether you have had a normal bp or urine problens then have you supply the sample in a cup. well they cant always get a sample on demand from a child and a child cant keep track of how many times they have wet their self per day, per week. per what have you... so a parent keeps track of how many pull ups are being used. unless of course the child is young enough for the parent to follow them into the bathroom and watch them go. which is not what 8-10 yrolds want. imagine being thatchild and having mommy and daddy interupting your time with friends and family and fun by saying honey time to go potty, lets go potty now,... my point its actually less embarrassing to an 8-10 yr old to say I need a new pull up, or I need a new under garment please. some parents like my relatives do, where they have a code word so their children dont have to say pull up.

my point maybe this parent you are talking about is doing the potty training the same way that my relatives have been told by the doctor how to do it with their child.

heres a suggestion that i use with bed wetting relatives.... an air mattress. its water proof and perfectly acceptable sleeping on them for adults and children. you get them in camping supplies. they come in all sizes. and a nice supply of sheets and blankets in the themes that the children enjoy.

when this child comes to spend the night they help me blow up their air mattress and then make it up with the sheets and blankets and I leave a stack near by so that if they wake in the night they can either come get me or help their self. I also give them the walk through of the bathroom so that if they decide they want a "fresh start" they can bath or shower before going back to bed on the clean sheets and blankets.

Here is a good article:

https://www.kidshealth.org.nz/daytime-wetting

[healingme4me]

Her classmates are doing the same thing?

I can certainly appreciate your not wanting your living quarters damaged, those security deposits are a pretty penny, I know mine certainly is. How about an egg timer to get her into a routine of getting her into the bathroom, while she stays with you? And I was a little younger than her when I learned about kegels care of a bike accident and subsequent surgery and hospitalization. I needed to learn how to control my bladder function at such a young age. She might benefit?

My first thoughts are that she might be mildly epileptic. She doesn't even realise she is doing this. What she may be experiencing are mild momentary petit-mal seizures. The seizures may be so brief no one notices but enough for her to temporarily lose her faculties - hence the accidents.

I had a chum at school who went through this - and the resulting bullying - right up until she was finally diagnosed with epilepsy at the age of 15.

Good luck.

[Silver Ninja]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

paper training an 8 yr old child abuse yes here in american treating a child like a dog or pet, paper training or making them sleep on paper instead of a bed because of bed wetting is considered abuse.

Sorry, AmandaLouise, to hear what has happened to you. I'm also sorry that I didn't make it clear about "paper training"; what I meant was when I noticed signs that she may need to go, that I would have her go to the bathroom. (My husband has warned me about making comparisons with dog training! - I never had children, only dogs.)

You also gave me a few good ideas that I can pass along to my step-daughter.

Thanks for correcting me.

[Silver Ninja]

Thank you all for the wonderful ideas, while this is a serious problem, it's nice to know that she's not alone & there are ways to get this under control.

I hadn't seen anything about allergy sensitivity, especially to delicate tissue, mentioned in some of the research that I did. All of us have skin sensitivity & we all use sensitive skin laundry detergent, gentle soap (anti-bactiral soap is the worst soap you can use & can cause EXTREME irritation), & sensitive skin toilet paper.

I've just found out that sensitive skin wipes are better because they keep you cleaner. I just talked to her about about using the sensitive skin wipes, instead of toilet paper & use a sensitive skin soap for just that area.

I was just at Walmart today & was looking at twin size air mattresses for her. Since we live in a one bedroom apartment, I'm going to buy a small tent, big enough for the mattress, for some privacy.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Silver Ninja

Sorry, AmandaLouise, to hear what has happened to you. I'm also sorry that I didn't make it clear about "paper training"; what I meant was when I noticed signs that she may need to go, that I would have her go to the bathroom. (My husband has warned me about making comparisons with dog training! - I never had children, only dogs.)

You also gave me a few good ideas that I can pass along to my step-daughter.

Thanks for correcting me.

lol I was not paper trained. I just know whats called abuse and what isnt. you can watch tv news shows here in america and you will find many reports about how some parents have been arrested and charged with child abuse by not allowing the bed wetting children to sleep on a bed or making them sleep on paper like a dog, there was even a case in the news about a grandmother who made their be4d wetting grandchild sleep , sleeping bag style in a garbage bag because they wet their bed and pants.

my point thanks for your concern but I was not paper trained like a dog. its just something I know has happened to others.

yea i agree with your husband. comparing with dogs can lead to major misunderstandings and could result in legal problems for you. I can understand you have never had children. though it does make for a confusing situation in my mind. you stated this child is your grandchild.... umm if I may ask if you have never had any children how is this child your grand child...

reason i ask is because in order for a child to be your grand child you have had to have children.

grand children are the children of your own or your husband/ wives daughter or son.

in other words you have had to have either your own biological children, or your spouse has had children by a previous marriage or yours or your spouse's children have adopted a child.

example when my children that I gave birth to grow up and have children of their own or adopt their children will be called my grandchildren. when the child that my wife gave birth to grows up and has a child or adopts a child that child will be called my grand child.

my point someone either you or your spouse would have needed to have children either biological or adopted in order for you to have a grandchild that wets the bed. in which case you would have been part of raising children (either your own, your husbands or the adopted children)

can you see my confusing here, so Im asking because if this child in question is adopted or the childs parents were adopted my your husband or you or through a different marriage then there may actually be genetic reasons behind this bedwetting that you may not know about.

if so maybe you can talk with the adopted or previous marriage side of the family and maybe make it an activity of drawing up a family tree of sorts that could answer your questions and concerns.

I am not following this.

The way I see it my children have multiple grandparents including two sets of step grandparents. Their biological father remarried and his new wife's parents became my children's step-grandparents. I don't bother with the 'step', they are my children's grandparents. Similarly, when I remarried my new in-laws became step-grandparents too. When it comes to my step-son, my parents became his step-granparents too. Adopting has nothing to do with this. So I don't get your point. And what has this to do with bed-wetting?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by justafriend306

I am not following this.

The way I see it my children have multiple grandparents including two sets of step grandparents. Their biological father remarried and his new wife's parents became my children's step-grandparents. I don't bother with the 'step', they are my children's grandparents. Similarly, when I remarried my new in-laws became step-grandparents too. When it comes to my step-son, my parents became his step-granparents too. Adopting has nothing to do with this. So I don't get your point. And what has this to do with bed-wetting?

sometimes genetics plays a part in whether a child is a bed or awake hours wetter. there are many genetic (hereditary) kidney and liver, nerves, problems that can result in children not able to stay dry, not able to understand when they need to go to the restroom.

with children that have been adopted the adoptive parent sometimes does not get all the information about whats hereditary and what isnt in the childs family.....

examples

I know someone who just adopted a child, that child is a bed wetter. when researching the childs history it turns out that this child has parents, grand parents and great grandparents that carry a hereditary gene that causes bedwetting.

my own child because I have Multiple Sclerosis has the gene for Neurogenetic Bladder Dysfunction.... in short the nerves connecting her bladder to her spine short circuits. sometimes this results in my daughter having accidents other times crying because she feels that full bladder sensation but can not urinate. after many tests its going to take many years before my child will be able to have conscious control over her bladder.

my point of the post that you did not understand was maybe if this child that the thread was about was adopted or the product of her husbands side of the family she may not know the full family history. checking on family history may answer the questions silver ninja has about whether something needs to be done to help the child.

https://www.webmd.com/children/featu...tting-causes#1

[nicoleflynn]

I would think seeing a child psychologist would be of great value.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by Silver Ninja

I have a (step) grand-daughter who is 8 years old & is still wetting herself. She has been suffering from UTIs, legs that are rashed & rubbed raw. All other tissue in that area raw & bloody because of the urine staying on the skin. She now wears adult diapers because nothing seems to help.

She has been to doctors, have had tests run, be on a special diet, can't eat or drink after 5pm (she goes to bed at 9pm). The the last thing that is being considered is a special medication to stop it.

She was potty trained but it started when she went to school. When asked: she says "I don't know why, I just don't feel like getting up & going to the bath room." She's really bad about not wanting to raise her hand at school, to go to the bathroom, she just goes & sits in her wet panties until she gets home. She also embarrassed & doesn't like to tell anyone; in school & out. She isn't allowed to have a purse so she can't change & I have no idea how the school handles the problem. I also understand that a lot of kids, both boys & girls, in her class do the same thing.

I found out that she has to ask her mother or her dad for a new diaper & it embarrasses her so she doesn't say anything. I think that she is old enough to get them herself & not have to ask (announce) when it happens.

She has been punished (I have no idea how), enticed, etc., & nothing works.

Growing up, her family has moved around a lot, because of her dad's job. Several times, they have lived with relatives because he was going to stay in the area for a short time. (A teacher told her that she was "homeless" because she lived with relatives!)

She has two sisters, one 1-1/2 years old & the other is 6 months. When the youngest was born, she is ignored & has to take care of her sisters; when she isn't in school.

Recently, her father (who she adores) has been working longer hours & she doesn't see him as much as she would like.

Before the youngest was born, she came to visit with her mom. Her mom was always telling her what to do, to the point that my husband had to step in & make her stop! Her mother bathed her, brushed her hair; which was an event, her mother claimed she was a "pre-madonna" & didn't like her hair touched. Found out that her mom had the wrong brush & pulled her hair when she brushed it! I used the right brush & spent 30 minutes to brush out the tangles. They also spent an hour in a very heated argument about wearing the diapers. (She is also very outspoken!)

I want her to come visit this summer. I know this may sound terrible but I'm concerned (& feel guilty) that because I live in an apartment & the is carpet ruined, the very well behaved dog will be blamed, & I will have to pay a hefty deposit to replace the carpet.

Unfortunately, I've only paper trained puppies & would want to do the same but I'm afraid it would be considered child abuse. (All you do is have a special spot, with paper, & when you catch the puppy in the act, you place the puppy on the paper & praise them. = Catch her in the act, take her to the bathroom & praise her.)

My thought is that she may have a neurological condition that doesn't allow the bladder tell the brain that it is full.

I'm very concerned about the mental & physical scarring that is taking place but I'm not sure what to do.

I can feel for the kid. As a child I had kidney infections and would wet myself and be so embarrassed about it. But I couldn't help it. I was taken off all carbonated drinks and like someone mentioned setting a timer to go empty my bladder. At school I was allowed to go in between times the class regularly went to the restroom and that helped. But again was embarrassing.
You can put a plastic liner on the mattress to protect it. Use a plastic "chuck" backed pad to lay under her at night. That way if there's an accident clean up will be quicker. Hope you can find an answer for her, being a kid is hard enough without something like this going on. It could very well be anxiety.

[Artchic528]

Maybe this girl is super shy or doesn't like to talk to people she doesn't know, thus doesn't like to raise her hand to go to the bathroom?

I was like this when I was very young, and would prefer trying to hold it in over asking in the middle of a classroom. I mean, all eyes would be on me and that made me uncomfortable and felt super awkward and embarrassing.

At night, I was much better.

[divine1966]

She said it’s a stepgrandchild. In her very first post. So she isn’t biologically related. This a child of her stepchild (child of her husband’s). So perhaps she married this man when his kids were already grown, so she is not referring to them as her kids but step kids. I think it’s very common and nothing to be perplexed about.

[divine1966]

Silver ninja, does a little girl has any cognitive limitations? Emotional impairment? Other special needs? IEP? Did her parents try to make arrangements with the school re her being able to use the bathroom?

You said other children in class do the same thing. So are you saying other 8-year olds pee their pants in the classroom? Let me ensure you that such things aren’t common occurrence for 8-year olds. Not at all. Is this a self contained classroom?

[Perna]

SilverNinja, I was like your granddaughter. I believe her psychological circumstances are to blame; her mother's doing everything for her and constant upheaval in her life. She is a child and cannot take care of herself (literally, because she has so few resources) so must conform to the parental expectations. She is not allowed to take care of herself (as you have pointed out, can't even get her own diapers), even if she had the ability/knowledge to do so. She is helpless other than in being a "problem." It is the only input she has in her life.

She needs an outside advocate; the doctors have found nothing wrong with her because nothing IS wrong with her, it's very very wrong with her circumstances and the adults in her life.