Not being assertive enough which leads to people taking anger out on you

eskielover · Nov 25, 2022, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

Yeah that is true, some people really need to learn the hard way. I see what you mean by not caring as much as you get older, I'm that way to a certain extent when it comes to people my own age. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is in a tactful manner, some people need the wake up call. It's dealing with people much older that I need to work on, I need to work on being more verbally assertive without them trying to make me look bad because they perceive me as being disrespectful even though I'm an adult as well since some older adults still see adults at least 10 years younger than them as children in a sense and there's even been some older adults that talked to me the same way you would talk to a child which isn't appropriate and that's one of the places I need to draw the line at.

The problem these days especially is that people "any age" see people who disagree with them as being disrespectful (or worse). The way society has changed makes me even less caring whether I disagree or not. In some ways it has made me more vocal because I don't want my silence to be seen as agreement or conscent to their way of thinking. Yep, more conflict but with more practice I am getting even better at it & my voice even stronger than it has been

rdgrad15 · Nov 25, 2022, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eskielover

The problem these days especially is that people "any age" see people who disagree with them as being disrespectful (or worse). The way society has changed makes me even less caring whether I disagree or not. In some ways it has made me more vocal because I don't want my silence to be seen as agreement or conscent to their way of thinking. Yep, more conflict but with more practice I am getting even better at it & my voice even stronger than it has been

Yep you’re right in the fact that people see any form of disagreement as disrespect. Society has definitely changed and I’ve noticed people are more vocal and angry now. I take that as a sign that I need to become more assertive. Being silent can definitely be taken as agreement and doing what they want.

pachyderm · Nov 30, 2022, 11:07 AM

As a child you were beaten down for asserting yourself and now you are criticized for not being assertive enough --

Mountaindewed · Nov 30, 2022, 12:53 PM

I stood up for myself and told my therapist about the rude and unprofessional remarks the previous therapist made about my appeareance and how she called me creepy and stuff. Then I found out a couple weeks ago she got fired for saying that stuff and doing other things.

I didn't used to be assertive for "not wanting to throw people under the bus." But now I know some things just aren't right

Also on Monday I was assertive with my pdoc just enough to get the med increase I needed but not too pushy to get him angry. Its a toss up sometimes though.

eskielover · Nov 30, 2022, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachyderm

As a child you were beaten down for asserting yourself and now you are criticized for not being assertive enough --

No one ever achieved doing that to me because this strong willed child just kept doing what I knew was right. That angered people too, so either way. I just didn't care about their anger which fueled it more.

rdgrad15 · Dec 01, 2022, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachyderm

As a child you were beaten down for asserting yourself and now you are criticized for not being assertive enough --

Yep got that right.

rdgrad15 · Dec 01, 2022, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaindewed

I stood up for myself and told my therapist about the rude and unprofessional remarks the previous therapist made about my appeareance and how she called me creepy and stuff. Then I found out a couple weeks ago she got fired for saying that stuff and doing other things.

I didn't used to be assertive for "not wanting to throw people under the bus." But now I know some things just aren't right

Also on Monday I was assertive with my pdoc just enough to get the med increase I needed but not too pushy to get him angry. Its a toss up sometimes though.

Yep that's how it is for me since I don't like throwing people under the bus. It could come off as you being crazy or disrespectful. You are right though it's getting to a point where it shouldn't matter what others think. Also yes it's a balancing act between being assertive enough to where you're not walked over but not so much that you come off as arrogant and making someone angry.

rdgrad15 · Dec 01, 2022, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eskielover

No one ever achieved doing that to me because this strong willed child just kept doing what I knew was right. That angered people too, so either way. I just didn't care about their anger which fueled it more.

I wish I had this mindset as a child. I cared too much about other people's anger especially since corporal punishment was used a lot.

Fuzzybear · Dec 01, 2022, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Beth*

In the '90's I was seeing an outstanding psychologist. He taught me that the most effective way to communicate was to be validating (validate the other's position) and assertive (assert your own position).

Sounds easy; it often is not. A smart habit to practice.

Smart thinking psychologist. I agree with him.

rdgrad15 · Dec 01, 2022, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

Smart thinking psychologist. I agree with him.

This is smart and I agree.

Mendingmysoul · Dec 01, 2022, 02:14 PM

Some thing comes to my mind
When you assert your boundaries for the first time after being docile for a long time,people react very passive aggressive, they are angry that their scapegoat is trying to escape,they gaslight you how you are wrong in putting up boundaries,they take you on a guilt trip for not letting them use and abuse you,they will blame you of being selfish now that you want to protect your psyche, that you wanted to care for yourself.Essentially the abusers want to beat you down ,so that you will return to your previous position..That is...A scapegoat, or an emotional trash can.So that they can use and abuse you again.In their minds they are thinking...Ahhh I did all the hard work of identifying a nice target.You cannot be destroying that.Noo way.They desperately try to rehold on to you.
That is what happened with me when I stood up for myself.

eskielover · Dec 01, 2022, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

I wish I had this mindset as a child. I cared too much about other people's anger especially since corporal punishment was used a lot.

Was in my day too (I'm almost 70). Stuff I stood up against weren't those kind of things but it made adults angry that I didn't cooperate with their thinking or what whey wanted me to do & was willing to tell them NO in no uncertain terms.

Was assertive with a guy beating on his dog. He threatened to hit me & I told him go ahead cause it would land him in jail. Lol.... I was 5 ft & about 100 lbs at that time. They always said the smallest dogs gave the nastiest bite.....smallest people too.

I kinda learned to stick up for myself because my parents didn't have a clue how to even stick up for themselves.

My daughter appreciated my sticking up & being assertive. She learned well too.
I never got involved unless it was beyond what she could handle....but then my logical mind attacked illogical people & every time, she won & they realized they better respect her. Only had to happen a couple of times

eskielover · Dec 01, 2022, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Beth*

In the '90's I was seeing an outstanding psychologist. He taught me that the most effective way to communicate was to be validating (validate the other's position) and assertive (assert your own position).

Sounds easy; it often is not. A smart habit to practice.

Problem is that usually by the time they push me into my assertive mode they have already proven that what they are doing is WRONG & there is nothing valid about what they are doing. I am pretty laid back until pushed too far & at that point all they get is assertive

rdgrad15 · Dec 01, 2022, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul

Some thing comes to my mind
When you assert your boundaries for the first time after being docile for a long time,people react very passive aggressive, they are angry that their scapegoat is trying to escape,they gaslight you how you are wrong in putting up boundaries,they take you on a guilt trip for not letting them use and abuse you,they will blame you of being selfish now that you want to protect your psyche, that you wanted to care for yourself.Essentially the abusers want to beat you down ,so that you will return to your previous position..That is...A scapegoat, or an emotional trash can.So that they can use and abuse you again.In their minds they are thinking...Ahhh I did all the hard work of identifying a nice target.You cannot be destroying that.Noo way.They desperately try to rehold on to you.
That is what happened with me when I stood up for myself.

Oh yes you are absolutely right, also people will label you as disrespectful for being assertive. It’s their way of making you agree with them, they don’t want to lose that control. I know it is normal to feel guilty at first, that’s how I always felt when I first started being assertive and I was worried they would say bad stuff about me.

Usually being assertive will also cause people to get very angry and start screaming and I once knew someone in college who threw her phone across the room after I was being assertive a few times, there were also a couple times where someone was so stunned and caught off guard that they stood there in complete silence and shock.

rdgrad15 · Dec 01, 2022, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eskielover

Was in my day too (I'm almost 70). Stuff I stood up against weren't those kind of things but it made adults angry that I didn't cooperate with their thinking or what whey wanted me to do & was willing to tell them NO in no uncertain terms.

Was assertive with a guy beating on his dog. He threatened to hit me & I told him go ahead cause it would land him in jail. Lol.... I was 5 ft & about 100 lbs at that time. They always said the smallest dogs gave the nastiest bite.....smallest people too.

I kinda learned to stick up for myself because my parents didn't have a clue how to even stick up for themselves.

My daughter appreciated my sticking up & being assertive. She learned well too.
I never got involved unless it was beyond what she could handle....but then my logical mind attacked illogical people & every time, she won & they realized they better respect her. Only had to happen a couple of times

I’m glad you learned to be assertive and it’s a good skill to have.

rdgrad15 · Dec 01, 2022, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eskielover

Problem is that usually by the time they push me into my assertive mode they have already proven that what they are doing is WRONG & there is nothing valid about what they are doing. I am pretty laid back until pushed too far & at that point all they get is assertive

Yeah I tend to be a laid back person myself.

mote.of.soul · Dec 02, 2022, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Not being assertive enough which leads to people taking anger out on you

I think that can and does happen, yes. But I wouldn't put the blame on the apparent unassertive person necessarily. The responsibility for these angry attacks falls on the angry person.

But having an air of self confidence ie., being composed, looking people in the eye when speaking, having principles, being assertive etc., yes, may cause others to think twice before stooping to taking anger out on innocent targets, sure.

I can't think of anything else to add to that at this time.

rdgrad15 · Dec 02, 2022, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

I think that can and does happen, yes. But I wouldn't put the blame on the apparent unassertive person necessarily. The responsibility for these angry attacks falls on the angry person.

But having an air of self confidence ie., being composed, looking people in the eye when speaking, having principles, being assertive etc., yes, may cause others to think twice before stooping to taking anger out on innocent targets, sure.

I can't think of anything else to add to that at this time.

Yeah I see what you mean, the responsibility does fall on the angry person too since they're choosing to take it out on easier targets. Being assertive can definitely make them think twice, they would have to find a better outlet.

mote.of.soul · Dec 02, 2022, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Being assertive can definitely make them think twice, they would have to find a better outlet.

Yes, I would say that. That's basically how it's been for me in my journey of life, I can see parallels in what you're saying. I think that's why you get a lot of people yelling at kids too, because they're just physically smaller, for example. So there's all these different factors coming in to play.

It's really confusing and upsetting if people are yelling at you for like nothing. It's not right.🙏

rdgrad15 · Dec 03, 2022, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

Yes, I would say that. That's basically how it's been for me in my journey of life, I can see parallels in what you're saying. I think that's why you get a lot of people yelling at kids too, because they're just physically smaller, for example. So there's all these different factors coming in to play.

It's really confusing and upsetting if people are yelling at you for like nothing. It's not right.🙏

Oh yes absolutely, I know lots of adults don't want to admit it but I've seen plenty of them yell at kids just because they're kids and they know children won't speak up for themselves. It even happens in schools, I've seen teachers yell at their students or other students in the halls over the smallest things or for what seems to be no reason at all. I know kids aren't perfect, they definitely need disciplined but at the same time some adults need to just chill out. The most common scenario is a child does the most trivial thing such as talking a bit too loud in the hall or something else very trivial and a teacher gets mad and goes on and on for several minutes especially if they're in full on rage mode and won't seem to let it go, I know students need to follow directions but at the same point lecturing them for several minutes seems silly and I can't help but think seriously get a grip on yourself and get to the point.

Mendingmysoul · Dec 03, 2022, 01:49 PM

The need to discipline children is used as disguise for abuse in the scenarios where there is an interaction between adults and chidren.Like in parent and offspring relationship,teacher student relationship or adult relatives and children relationships.Anywhere when there is power imbalance ( a child is almost powerless in the above scenarios),adults getaway with abuse.I think rarely a child is assertive,even if it is ,it can be chalked off as the child being undisciplined and that again gives power for an adult to abuse more under the disguise of discipline. Its a hamster wheel. I could only get off of it as an adult, while the abusers are trying hard to put me back into my place.It is really hard to stand your ground.

rdgrad15 · Dec 03, 2022, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul

The need to discipline children is used as disguise for abuse in the scenarios where there is an interaction between adults and chidren.Like in parent and offspring relationship,teacher student relationship or adult relatives and children relationships.Anywhere when there is power imbalance ( a child is almost powerless in the above scenarios),adults getaway with abuse.I think rarely a child is assertive,even if it is ,it can be chalked off as the child being undisciplined and that again gives power for an adult to abuse more under the disguise of discipline. Its a hamster wheel. I could only get off of it as an adult, while the abusers are trying hard to put me back into my place.It is really hard to stand your ground.

I agree, there's a difference between genuinely trying to discipline a child who exhibits poor behavior and abuse disguised as discipline. Parents and teachers are the most likely to do this, this is especially obvious when they get mad at something the child did and they just won't let it go. I could do the smallest thing as a child and my dad would lecture me for hours, there were even times when he would still bring it up for a few days. In a similar way you can tell a teacher is on a power trip when they yell at one student for doing something but they allow another student to do the same thing or something similar without getting mad, another way you can tell is if they also go on very long lectures rather than getting to the point and then getting right back to the lesson.

Mendingmysoul · Dec 03, 2022, 05:10 PM

Yep,they discipline at a perceived mistake an innocent child makes.Like taking a cookie from my mom's friend ,when being offered at age four is a huge mistake and I had to be disciplined by beating to pulp.So yep.
In my opinion children are just learning.How many are making serious mistakes?I doubt it.Majority of those adults are nitpicking and just looking for microbehaviours, so as to punish them.Distorted people .

rdgrad15 · Dec 03, 2022, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul

Yep,they discipline at a perceived mistake an innocent child makes.Like taking a cookie from my mom's friend ,when being offered at age four is a huge mistake and I had to be disciplined by beating to pulp.So yep.
In my opinion children are just learning.How many are making serious mistakes?I doubt it.Majority of those adults are nitpicking and just looking for microbehaviours, so as to punish them.Distorted people .

Yep exactly, it's just nitpicking behaviors especially since in the absence of children adults tend to be just as bad. If children saw the way adults truly acted, I think kids would have a harder time taking them seriously. Even as an adult, there are other adults I have trouble taking seriously due to their hypocrisy, also nitpicking and harshly disciplining children has been known to backfire on adults later on when they get older. They may remain silent at a young age but once they become adults or even late in their teen years, they are more likely to speak up about what certain adults did.

Mendingmysoul · Dec 03, 2022, 11:22 PM

So true,but I didn't wait until I grew up.I wanted to please my mom so bad that I was a good kid.Next time I asked my mom's friend to offer me a cookie so that I can say no to her offering.And I further explained her that when I took the cookie previously my mom raged and punished me and this time I wanted to do the right thing and want my mom's anger to go away.I in an innocent way outed my mom.LOL.Ofcourse that did escalate my mom more.

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